Ziaire Williams??

[fanboyslim 0]

17 minutes ago, kevofrommempho said:

Really interested to see our second and third year guys in summer league this year.  Wish it were longer.  More excited about seeing potential growth in those guys than I am about our draft picks this year.

I'm not sure Santi will play in summer league as he's going to play in the FIBA world cup. I don't necessarily rule it out since the world cup is in September but I think it's unlikely. 

On the plus side, he's going to play against the likes of Porzingis, Jokic and -maybe- Wemby. And he's going to spend several weeks with coach Scariolo who's a great defensive coach.

[kevofrommempho 0]

Just now, fanboyslim said:

I'm not sure Santi will play in summer league as he's going to play in the FIBA world cup. I don't necessarily rule it out since the world cup is in September but I think it's unlikely. 

On the plus side, he's going to play against the likes of Porzingis, Jokic and -maybe- Wemby. And he's going to spend several weeks with coach Scariolo who's a great defensive coach.

That's probably a better experience for him than summer league anyway.

[grizzgolf 0]

I got a feeling unless ZW is in a trade, he's gonna get some run this next season

[GrizzTigerFan 0]

Interesting Stat for Ziaire

He played a total of 20mins entire year in a lineup with both Bane and Ja.  

Ja Bane Ziaire Jaren Adams   15mins  114.7offrtg    111.4 defrtg   +3.3netrtg    

Ja Bane Ziaire BrooksAdams  5mins     160.0offrtg    75.0defrtg    +85.0netrtg

 

For reference last season he played     

Ja Bane Ziaire Jaren Adams   208 mins 119.3offrtg    115.1defrtg    +4.2netrtg     with just this lineup alone.

 

Lets keep it 100.. all of these young guys look basically unplayable if they not playing alongside at least  3 of the Starters.   Yes Ziaire is not a good player but making him the primary wing on mostly bench units with other weak players did him zero favors.     Its possible he would've looked like an actual NBA player if he got to play more mins with Ja Bane Jaren or Adams.    

 

Yea yea yea the usual ZW haters will come here and shoot this down but we all mostly agree Jenkins used him incorrectly too.   

 

 

[Ndq0327 0]

When the nuggets are putting up close to 125offensive rating in the playoffs I want a five Man unit that can get me close to that on a consistent basis. 
I see them as the benchmark of success 

[King Dork 0]

1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Interesting Stat for Ziaire

He played a total of 20mins entire year in a lineup with both Bane and Ja.  

Ja Bane Ziaire Jaren Adams   15mins  114.7offrtg    111.4 defrtg   +3.3netrtg    

Ja Bane Ziaire BrooksAdams  5mins     160.0offrtg    75.0defrtg    +85.0netrtg

 

For reference last season he played     

Ja Bane Ziaire Jaren Adams   208 mins 119.3offrtg    115.1defrtg    +4.2netrtg     with just this lineup alone.

 

Lets keep it 100.. all of these young guys look basically unplayable if they not playing alongside at least  3 of the Starters.   Yes Ziaire is not a good player but making him the primary wing on mostly bench units with other weak players did him zero favors.     Its possible he would've looked like an actual NBA player if he got to play more mins with Ja Bane Jaren or Adams.    

 

Yea yea yea the usual ZW haters will come here and shoot this down but we all mostly agree Jenkins used him incorrectly too.   

 

 

I don’t think Ziaire as the starter at SF is the end of the world. He’ll be serviceable in that role, honestly would probably be a 13-15 ppg guy as a starter. I just think we could possibly find a better fit, and if possible we should. 

 

11 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

When the nuggets are putting up close to 125offensive rating in the playoffs I want a five Man unit that can get me close to that on a consistent basis. 
I see them as the benchmark of success 

I don’t think we can do that. And I don’t think Denver can repeat it. They’ll definitely lose some pieces this offseason. 

[GrizzTigerFan 0]

11 minutes ago, King Dork said:

I don’t think Ziaire as the starter at SF is the end of the world. He’ll be serviceable in that role, honestly would probably be a 13-15 ppg guy as a starter. I just think we could possibly find a better fit, and if possible we should. 

 

I don’t think we can do that. And I don’t think Denver can repeat it. They’ll definitely lose some pieces this offseason. 

Yea I think he could be serviceable too. He can catch lobs and score off back cuts. If he improves defensively then he's a viable solution.  

However, he would need to become an above avg 3pt shooter to become the fulltime solution.  

I like Roddy I just don't think he is starting SF material.  And I'm not sure if Jake can ever guard wings. 

Still should draft over him and look for solution on trade market.  

But folks should watch his highlights before completely closing door on him.   The tools he has already shown will be good compliment on the wing. 

[Rdk4121 0]

Literally all ZW needs to do is shoot 3s and play league average defense and he can start at the 3. He hasn't exactly been able to do that consistently. He'll get enough in transition or as a cutter to be serviceable on offense. If he can shoot 37% or above from 3 he'll be completely fine as a starter. He did reasonably well as a starter as a rookie and didn't even shoot that well. 

[GrizzTigerFan 0]

27 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

Literally all ZW needs to do is shoot 3s and play league average defense and he can start at the 3. He hasn't exactly been able to do that consistently. He'll get enough in transition or as a cutter to be serviceable on offense. If he can shoot 37% or above from 3 he'll be completely fine as a starter. He did reasonably well as a starter as a rookie and didn't even shoot that well. 

That is 100% my take.   Any wing that plays alongside Ja Bane Adams and Jaren will be fine.  

To further prove that point: Out of 16 lineups that include the Big3 only 2 were negative.

T. Jones - J. Jackson Jr. - J. Morant - B. Clarke - D. Bane   -22netrtg

S. Adams - J. Jackson Jr. - J. Morant - D. Bane - D. Roddy  -24netrtg

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612763/lineups-advanced?CF=GROUP_NAME*E*Bane:GROUP_NAME*E*Morant:GROUP_NAME*E*Jackson&GroupQuantity=5&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular Season&dir=D&sort=MIN

 

 

 

[ItIsWhatItIs 0]

6 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

That is 100% my take.   Any wing that plays alongside Ja Bane Adams and Jaren will be fine.  

To further prove that point: Out of 16 lineups that include the Big3 only 2 were negative.

T. Jones - J. Jackson Jr. - J. Morant - B. Clarke - D. Bane   -22netrtg

S. Adams - J. Jackson Jr. - J. Morant - D. Bane - D. Roddy  -24netrtg

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612763/lineups-advanced?CF=GROUP_NAME*E*Bane:GROUP_NAME*E*Morant:GROUP_NAME*E*Jackson&GroupQuantity=5&Season=2022-23&SeasonType=Regular Season&dir=D&sort=MIN

 

 

 

It's not good to have one of the worst rotation players in the league. ZW is a lost cause, terrible 

[GrizzTigerFan 0]

7 minutes ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

It's not good to have one of the worst rotation players in the league. ZW is a lost cause, terrible 

Draft Kris Murray to takeover after building Ziaire up enough to become tradeable.   I am not married to idea of ZW longterm - i just dont think its end of the world if he ends up Starting.  

[grizzknob 0]

The bar has to be higher than "doesn't pull a starting lineup where the other four are strong/solidly positive contributors all the way down to a net negative by himself."  

[GrizzTigerFan 0]

5 minutes ago, grizzknob said:

The bar has to be higher than "doesn't pull a starting lineup where the other four are strong/solidly positive contributors all the way down to a net negative by himself."  

Dont disagree - just prepping myself for Internal solution being the answer.   We can still trade Tyus + youth for Vet and sign a FA.   I just dont think the Vet has to automatically be a starter.   

[ALT GRIND 0]

On 5/22/2023 at 3:13 PM, kevofrommempho said:

Really interested to see our second and third year guys in summer league this year.  Wish it were longer.  More excited about seeing potential growth in those guys than I am about our draft picks this year.

I want to see us draft or sign an actual point guard then let him actually BE a point guard (unlike the Point ZW experiment).  Even though Point Roddy in small doses would be fine.  I ALSO want to see us draft/sign a legit 7 footer who can dunk and block shots.  There are gonna be some BIG guys in Summer League.  Would hate to be "undersized".

I want to see guys who fit well together since most of them will be playing in Southaven all year (at best).

If Roddy and Lofton Jr. and LaRavia can develop some great chemistry together, to me, that would be a WIN.

[ALT GRIND 0]

49 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Draft Kris Murray to takeover after building Ziaire up enough to become tradeable.   I am not married to idea of ZW longterm - i just dont think its end of the world if he ends up Starting.  

Even if we move ZW, ideally it would be during the '24 draft using him and our extra pick (Warriors) to move up.  

[Holidayinn21 0]

Ziaire is a midrange/slasher, that's been pigeonholed into being a spot up shooter, and he's not much of an outside guy at this point in his career.

Play to his strengths

[King Dork 0]

8 hours ago, Holidayinn21 said:

Ziaire is a midrange/slasher, that's been pigeonholed into being a spot up shooter, and he's not much of an outside guy at this point in his career.

Play to his strengths

He can more so play to his strengths with the starters than off the bench, is I think the point most are trying to make. Not saying I would start him though. I’d do everything not to start him tbh. They need to let him loose to be a mid range assassin tho. 

[GrizzTigerFan 0]

6 hours ago, King Dork said:

He can more so play to his strengths with the starters than off the bench, is I think the point most are trying to make. Not saying I would start him though. I’d do everything not to start him tbh. They need to let him loose to be a mid range assassin tho. 

Yes all options should be explored before just simply starting him.   However, they shouldn't  blow all their assets to just get a short term starter solution.   I'd rather them just Start Roddy or Ziaire and use assets to add couple of solid vets to the bench.   Having a bench full of low experience guys is silly anyway. 

[Grizzfan7979 0]

9 hours ago, King Dork said:

He can more so play to his strengths with the starters than off the bench, is I think the point most are trying to make. Not saying I would start him though. I’d do everything not to start him tbh. They need to let him loose to be a mid range assassin tho. 

 

2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yes all options should be explored before just simply starting him.   However, they shouldn't  blow all their assets to just get a short term starter solution.   I'd rather them just Start Roddy or Ziaire and use assets to add couple of solid vets to the bench.   Having a bench full of low experience guys is silly anyway. 

They should cut him. Do the Lakers try to adjust their lineups and rotations so Troy Brown Jr can be in the optimal position? No, they just park him on the bench because Lebron and AD are their workhouses and the other people have to fit around them. if ZW had been drafted 50 instead of 10 he'd already be gone. Sunk cost here.

 

[King Dork 0]

3 minutes ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

 

They should cut him. Do the Lakers try to adjust their lineups and rotations so Troy Brown Jr can be in the optimal position? No, they just park him on the bench because Lebron and AD are their workhouses and the other people have to fit around them. if ZW had been drafted 50 instead of 10 he'd already be gone. Sunk cost here.

 

They park him on the bench because they have better options. Currently we do not. The guy hooped in the playoffs 1 season ago and folks wanna throw him away??? Wild

[GrizzTigerFan 0]

12 minutes ago, King Dork said:

They park him on the bench because they have better options. Currently we do not. The guy hooped in the playoffs 1 season ago and folks wanna throw him away??? Wild

Ziaire frustrated the heck outta me but looking at trade and UFA market really soured me on idea of just dumping him for nothing.   He is still capable of becoming a rotation player - heck if Konchar became one no reason why Ziaire can't.    He appears to be a hardworker and injury issues were real enough that all of that should warrant another look.   

I want more 6'7'+ long athletic wings not less.   Grab another in this years draft.   If we drop anyone drop Konchar and Lofton Jr. 

[Grizzfan7979 0]

3 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Ziaire frustrated the heck outta me but looking at trade and UFA market really soured me on idea of just dumping him for nothing.   He is still capable of becoming a rotation player - heck if Konchar became one no reason why Ziaire can't.    He appears to be a hardworker and injury issues were real enough that all of that should warrant another look.   

I want more 6'7'+ long athletic wings not less.   Grab another in this years draft.   If we drop anyone drop Konchar and Lofton Jr. 

ZW is a worse Cam Reddish. 

The mistake you're making is assuming some sort of baseline level of competency that most NBA role players have that he doesn't have. THat's why by metrics both years he's bottom 5 out of >300 players

[GrizzTigerFan 0]

https://www.nbadraft.net/2021-nba-draft-instant-analysis/

B+

Williams is coming off an odd and unsatisfying season at Stanford, where he simply did not play up to his potential in 20 games for the Cardinal. He never found his footing, shooting only 37% from the floor and 29% from the 3-point line, despite coming out of high school with the reputation as a long-range assassin. At 6-9, Williams can shoot over anyone, and he can handle it much better than most players his size. There are times where Williams's offensive repertoire resembles Michael Porter Jr. But Williams has a long way to go and will need a team that is patient with him while he works on his body (only 190 pounds right now) and regains his confidence. He might be a bit of a reach here at No. 10, but the Grizzlies (who traded up to get here) clearly see something special in Williams. He makes a lot of sense on paper alongside Ja Morant, and if he can put his college season firmly in the rear-view mirror, he could be a tremendous front-court partner with Jaren Jackson Jr.

[chipc3 0]

2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

https://www.nbadraft.net/2021-nba-draft-instant-analysis/

B+

Williams is coming off an odd and unsatisfying season at Stanford, where he simply did not play up to his potential in 20 games for the Cardinal. He never found his footing, shooting only 37% from the floor and 29% from the 3-point line, despite coming out of high school with the reputation as a long-range assassin. At 6-9, Williams can shoot over anyone, and he can handle it much better than most players his size. There are times where Williams's offensive repertoire resembles Michael Porter Jr. But Williams has a long way to go and will need a team that is patient with him while he works on his body (only 190 pounds right now) and regains his confidence. He might be a bit of a reach here at No. 10, but the Grizzlies (who traded up to get here) clearly see something special in Williams. He makes a lot of sense on paper alongside Ja Morant, and if he can put his college season firmly in the rear-view mirror, he could be a tremendous front-court partner with Jaren Jackson Jr.

[smit-tay griz 0]

1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

https://www.nbadraft.net/2021-nba-draft-instant-analysis/

B+

Williams is coming off an odd and unsatisfying season at Stanford, where he simply did not play up to his potential in 20 games for the Cardinal. He never found his footing, shooting only 37% from the floor and 29% from the 3-point line, despite coming out of high school with the reputation as a long-range assassin. At 6-9, Williams can shoot over anyone, and he can handle it much better than most players his size. There are times where Williams's offensive repertoire resembles Michael Porter Jr. But Williams has a long way to go and will need a team that is patient with him while he works on his body (only 190 pounds right now) and regains his confidence. He might be a bit of a reach here at No. 10, but the Grizzlies (who traded up to get here) clearly see something special in Williams. He makes a lot of sense on paper alongside Ja Morant, and if he can put his college season firmly in the rear-view mirror, he could be a tremendous front-court partner with Jaren Jackson Jr.

Unless they find a trade they like I don't see us parting with him.  I don't think he's as good as some posters seem to think, especially defensively, but I'm not in The J Crew's camp yet either.  Defensively, I think that Ziaire's lateral movement is not great, and his motor is is not good enough for him to be a strong defender.  I just hope that if he stays around he becomes average.  I think his ceiling is as a role player, I just hope he can reach it.