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Memphis Grizzlies vs Minnesota Timberwolves - 11/11/22

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3 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

I’m still baffled by them trading for Gobert. KAT’s biggest strength always was his ability to move between the low post and the perimeter according to defensive matchups, but with Gobert planted in the paint that is mostly gone.

Read their thread - they want BOTH traded 😂😂😂😂😂😂

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So despite the bad shooting night this was a fun game. I watched "All quiet on the Western front" (German version on Netflix) right before and by the end of the game the crippling feeling of dread and depression had all but gone away. Aaaanyway, some takeaways.

Lineups were a bit tighter than in previous days, although in all fairness given Jaren and Ziaire's absences Jenkins is going to have to put out some suboptimal lineups now and then. But he kept the starters together for longer stretches and we never gave the Wolves a big run.

As someone said, Dillon was controlled (other than a couple of plays later in the game) and it paid off. He missed some good shots and had to take a few hurried ones with the clock running out but that's ok. It's not his fault that plays get broken and the ball doesn't end on Ja or Des' hands.

Ant is by far Minny's best player (shocking, I know). Here's the fun part: he's due a (super)max extension by the end of next season with Gobert and KAT hogging almost $100M. Even if they let D-Lo's salary fall of their payroll they're going to have to complete their roster with really cheap contracts or they'll hit the tax line very easily. Good thing thay have lots of draft pic... *checks notes*. Nevermind. They're screwed.

It's common for young role players to perform better at home than on the road, but I have to check the history books for someone like Santi. He has a net rating of +21 at home and -11 away. Get this: he shoots 52% from the field and 35% from 3 in the Forum and 39%/22% elsewhere. It's not a huge sample yet, but that's an insane swing for someone who's playing a lot of minutes. The good news is, this should get much better with experience.

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7 hours ago, lions said:

Disappointing win the Grizzlies beat a Good timberwolves team on ESPN. any time you a can win a Game at this Level there is No disappointing Wins .

Good Timberwolves team?  How do you figure that?

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3 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

So despite the bad shooting night this was a fun game. I watched "All quiet on the Western front" (German version on Netflix) right before and by the end of the game the crippling feeling of dread and depression had all but gone away. Aaaanyway, some takeaways.

Lineups were a bit tighter than in previous days, although in all fairness given Jaren and Ziaire's absences Jenkins is going to have to put out some suboptimal lineups now and then. But he kept the starters together for longer stretches and we never gave the Wolves a big run.

As someone said, Dillon was controlled (other than a couple of plays later in the game) and it paid off. He missed some good shots and had to take a few hurried ones with the clock running out but that's ok. It's not his fault that plays get broken and the ball doesn't end on Ja or Des' hands.

Ant is by far Minny's best player (shocking, I know). Here's the fun part: he's due a (super)max extension by the end of next season with Gobert and KAT hogging almost $100M. Even if they let D-Lo's salary fall of their payroll they're going to have to complete their roster with really cheap contracts or they'll hit the tax line very easily. Good thing thay have lots of draft pic... *checks notes*. Nevermind. They're screwed.

It's common for young role players to perform better at home than on the road, but I have to check the history books for someone like Santi. He has a net rating of +21 at home and -11 away. Get this: he shoots 52% from the field and 35% from 3 in the Forum and 39%/22% elsewhere. It's not a huge sample yet, but that's an insane swing for someone who's playing a lot of minutes. The good news is, this should get much better with experience.

They only have three players on their roster that are worth keeping, and none of them are named Townes, Russell, or Gobert.  Jaden McDaniels I like.

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14 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

Good Timberwolves team?  How do you figure that?

46-36 Last year 

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Saw the team post game on court celebration that irritated some older teams last season after this game... nothing disrespectful at all. They were not rubbing their opponents' noses in a loss - they were happy they won. Period. There is a difference.

 

We say how much WE love this team ... well THESE Grizz absolutely like and celebrate each other too.

Slo-Mo came over in his new fit and it was hugs and handshakes all around. Genuine hugs and handshakes all around. 

@smit-tay griz - right. On paper - the trade looked legit. It also was supposedly seen as a sign that the Timberwolves were going all in on adding pieces that they felt would move the needle.

Thing is - needles move both ways and this new squad shows how moves can cause self inflicted wounds.

Kat has never been that good to me. Basketball skill wise- yes. Heart and hustle - nope.

Russell ... no comment. Yall all have eyes.

Gobert ... all defense within 3 to 5 feet of the bucket (Ja has figured out a way to get in his chest to 'limit' his shot blocking damage) and zero offense.

Now Edwards is legit. I think in order for him to truly shine - he will need a new team... either after KAT / Russell / Gobert are gone or he is moved ...

 

The Jazz front office knew what they were doing here and it shows. Early stiil , I know, but look at them now.

 

 

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1 hour ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

- right. On paper - the trade looked legit. It also was supposedly seen as a sign that the Timberwolves were going all in on adding pieces that they felt would move the needle.

Thing is - needles move both ways and this new squad shows how moves can cause self inflicted wounds.

15 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

2. They've already quit, and KAT and Gobert should be traded 😂😂

3. Giving up 4 1sts, and now wanting to trade Gobert? Sounds like a normal T'Wolves FO 😂😂😂

Never forget there were fans on this very board clamoring for us to make an "All IN" move all offseason and even to go after Rudy.  Complaining that we arent real contenders and FO is being cheap because they replace our vets with Rookies and didn't trade 4 FirstRd picks for a whichever ill fitting Pricey "star" that was available.  

Once again internal development is reigning supreme because even without our 3rd most important player and possibly best bench scorer were fighting for top spot in the West.   

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36 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Never forget there were fans on this very board clamoring for us to make an "All IN" move all offseason and even to go after Rudy.  Complaining that we arent real contenders and FO is being cheap because they replace our vets with Rookies and didn't trade 4 FirstRd picks for a whichever ill fitting Pricey "star" that was available.  

Once again internal development is reigning supreme because even without our 3rd most important player and possibly best bench scorer were fighting for top spot in the West.   

I'm just wondering, and happy to be corrected, or put up for debate, how many teams won the championship without internal development and drafting?

All I can see is Miami when they got LBJ to come from Cleveland, and when Cleveland got LBJ to come back home. Lakers getting LBJ and AD is another one but look at the cost - one championship only but traded their whole future and now are garbage.

GSW had already won when they got KD, and then won without KD.

So if you exclude arguably the best/2nd best player in history, it's been an epic fail

To my eyes, just buying a "superteam" , and exceeding the cap (ala English Premier league) mostly hasn't worked and is not a formula for success.

Rockets, Brooklyn, Clippers, 76ers - fail

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6 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

I'm just wondering, and happy to be corrected, or put up for debate, how many teams won the championship without internal development and drafting?

All I can see is Miami when they got LBJ to come from Cleveland, and when Cleveland got LBJ to come back home. Lakers getting LBJ and AD is another one but look at the cost - one championship only but traded their whole future and now are garbage.

GSW had already won when they got KD, and then won without KD.

So if you exclude arguably the best/2nd best player in history, it's been an epic fail

To my eyes, just buying a "superteam" , and exceeding the cap (ala English Premier league) mostly hasn't worked and is not a formula for success.

Rockets, Brooklyn, 76ers - fail

Im a Cowboys fan so i can attest to the fact that its more difficult to buy a championship team then it is to develop one. 

Funny thing is thru development we already have the type of "Star" players needed to be a contender.  

AllNBA franchise player: Ja 

2nd Banana  AllStar: Bane

Elite Defensive Anchor: Jaren

High Level Role Players: Adams, Brandon, Tyus, Dillon

That s pretty much recipe for success no matter the era.  

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3 hours ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

Saw the team post game on court celebration that irritated some older teams last season after this game... nothing disrespectful at all. They were not rubbing their opponents' noses in a loss - they were happy they won. Period. There is a difference.

 

We say how much WE love this team ... well THESE Grizz absolutely like and celebrate each other too.

Slo-Mo came over in his new fit and it was hugs and handshakes all around. Genuine hugs and handshakes all around. 

@smit-tay griz - right. On paper - the trade looked legit. It also was supposedly seen as a sign that the Timberwolves were going all in on adding pieces that they felt would move the needle.

Thing is - needles move both ways and this new squad shows how moves can cause self inflicted wounds.

Kat has never been that good to me. Basketball skill wise- yes. Heart and hustle - nope.

Russell ... no comment. Yall all have eyes.

Gobert ... all defense within 3 to 5 feet of the bucket (Ja has figured out a way to get in his chest to 'limit' his shot blocking damage) and zero offense.

Now Edwards is legit. I think in order for him to truly shine - he will need a new team... either after KAT / Russell / Gobert are gone or he is moved ...

 

The Jazz front office knew what they were doing here and it shows. Early stiil , I know, but look at them now.

 

 

Truthfully, I expected the Wolves to be better than they've shown, but they certainly haven't gotten it together yet.  It's a long season.  They could still turn it around.  I'm fine as long as they stay in our rearview mirror.

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Im a Cowboys fan so i can attest to the fact that its more difficult to buy a championship team then it is to develop one. 

Funny thing is thru development we already have the type of "Star" players needed to be a contender.  

AllNBA franchise player: Ja 

2nd Banana  AllStar: Bane

Elite Defensive Anchor: Jaren

High Level Role Players: Adams, Brandon, Tyus, Dillon

That s pretty much recipe for success no matter the era.  

MAYBE we need to upgrade BC.  Get a BETTER small forward than Dillon or ZW (or at least get added DEPTH).

Other than that, yeah, we look really good.  Although if you need 5 or 6 guys who can get you 25 points in any given night, then maybe we aren't THAT "deep" (depth in terms of OFFENSIVE FIREPOWER).  We could also use a Scottie Pippen type on the wing (but who couldn't?).  Plus another athletic X factor inside (offense/defense 2 way potential).

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1 hour ago, BigHunkALove said:

I'm just wondering, and happy to be corrected, or put up for debate, how many teams won the championship without internal development and drafting?

All I can see is Miami when they got LBJ to come from Cleveland, and when Cleveland got LBJ to come back home. Lakers getting LBJ and AD is another one but look at the cost - one championship only but traded their whole future and now are garbage.

GSW had already won when they got KD, and then won without KD.

So if you exclude arguably the best/2nd best player in history, it's been an epic fail

To my eyes, just buying a "superteam" , and exceeding the cap (ala English Premier league) mostly hasn't worked and is not a formula for success.

Rockets, Brooklyn, Clippers, 76ers - fail

I don't know if you would consider the KG/Allen/Pierce Celtics as winning without internal development.  Trading for two of your best guys maybe fits the bill.  Also, the Shaq Lakers.  They did draft Kobe and Derek Fisher but not Shaq, Glen Rice, Ron Harper, Robert Horry or Ron Artest.  The Kawhi Toronto Raptors was a similar case.  Every team does some drafting/internal development but there are several cases where teams made big moves in the offseason and it paid off big time.

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23 minutes ago, kevofrommempho said:

I don't know if you would consider the KG/Allen/Pierce Celtics as winning without internal development.  Trading for two of your best guys maybe fits the bill.  Also, the Shaq Lakers.  They did draft Kobe and Derek Fisher but not Shaq, Glen Rice, Ron Harper, Robert Horry or Ron Artest.  The Kawhi Toronto Raptors was a similar case.  Every team does some drafting/internal development but there are several cases where teams made big moves in the offseason and it paid off big time.

Good points.

I suppose I was looking at the last say 15 years, where the "superteam" became in vogue.

The Kawhi/Raptors I would say made one big move, and with their internal development, it got them there.

Maybe we are just one single big move away? If so, not sure who that would be that is realistic, and who would we give up to get that piece?

What I can see though, is an incredible chemistry and camaraderie amongst our guys, which almost no one else has. Maybe we can get there without "the big move"?

I like where the FO has put this team. And even more credit to them - in a relatively short time frame

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1 hour ago, BigHunkALove said:

Good points.

I suppose I was looking at the last say 15 years, where the "superteam" became in vogue.

The Kawhi/Raptors I would say made one big move, and with their internal development, it got them there.

Maybe we are just one single big move away? If so, not sure who that would be that is realistic, and who would we give up to get that piece?

What I can see though, is an incredible chemistry and camaraderie amongst our guys, which almost no one else has. Maybe we can get there without "the big move"?

I like where the FO has put this team. And even more credit to them - in a relatively short time frame

I would say the Heat, Celtics, and both groups of Lakers have been the championship orchestrated Superteams. Bucks, Cavs, Warriors, Spurs, and Mavs have all been built. Raptors were helped with a blockbuster trade but it was not collusion or orchestration to stack the deck. 

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