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Dillon Brooks Has to Go

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I don't see us being able to retain tyus as I believe a team will offer him a starting role and pay.

if that happens, then the fo is going to have to get aggressive in how to address the loss. ja, jjj and bane formulate our core. I'd take brooks and melton and a first rounder and see if I could get a nice fish to bite. I believe that that could yield a very talented player. 2 expirings- both very good defenders and one scoring guard for sure. said team could lock one or both up OR let both fall off the books for cap space and they have the draft pick.

 

slim.

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1 hour ago, Djf5233 said:

The grit n grind era is over and calling him an unselfish player is hilarious - refused to come off the bench he’s the biggest chucker in the league since dion waiters. 

Where did you come from kid? It seems like you have missed a lot about this franchise and DB. I friendly but strongly suggest that you consider going back to the lucky team you supported before. 

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2 hours ago, Djf5233 said:

The grit n grind era is over and calling him an unselfish player is hilarious - refused to come off the bench he’s the biggest chucker in the league since dion waiters. 

When has Dillon refused to come off the bench? Can someone show me when or where that was reported or is it just typical rumor driven misstatement? 

I also agree Dillon is a chucker but he's clearly not the biggest since Dion Waiters. He's more like JR Smith, a huge help when hot but unfortunately unable to realize when he isn't. 

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1 hour ago, memphis slim said:

I don't see us being able to retain tyus as I believe a team will offer him a starting role and pay.

if that happens, then the fo is going to have to get aggressive in how to address the loss. ja, jjj and bane formulate our core. I'd take brooks and melton and a first rounder and see if I could get a nice fish to bite. I believe that that could yield a very talented player. 2 expirings- both very good defenders and one scoring guard for sure. said team could lock one or both up OR let both fall off the books for cap space and they have the draft pick.

 

slim.

If we lose Tyus, I hope we take a look at Ricky Rubio.  Failing that it is pretty much guys like Ish Smith, Patty Mills -- OR WORSE.

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19 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Dillon could be an excellent 6th man. He can defend, create his own shot, has unlimited confidence (needed for a 6th man), a decent passing game and good range. His ability to create off the dribble would mesh perfectly with Melton, Tyus and BC. 

That also creates a perfect spot for ZW in the starting five. He doesn't have a need for plays run for him, he doesn't have a huge ego to shoot outside the flow of the offense. He can defend the opposing team's best wing scorer too. 

If I was in the Front Office the concept of Dillon being the 6th man is very exciting. I'd give at least a season to see how he adapts to the role before initiating trade talks. 

Dillon only has 1 more year left so there wouldn't be any trade talks, he would just walk. I'm not against using Dillon as a 6th man but ZW is not the person I would want starting. We need another scorer in that starting lineup. I don't think it's ZW. We saw how Minny blitzed Ja and then attacked him on defense. Bane picked up the slack but he has back issues. We need another scoring threat imo. 

19 hours ago, Thomas said:

The thing with Dillon is he only went hero ball mode when Ja was out. And we didn't have anyone else who could make it happen off the dribble like he could, so I really don't blame him for trying to take over - there was no one else on the roster that could do it when Ja went down. My real issue with him is not using his ability to get to the basket and just jacking low percentage threes instead.

People say he thinks he's MJ or whatever, and that's pretty much true when he's the best offensive playmaker we have on the court, but he respects Ja enough to rein it in and allow the #1 option to control the game. 

Maybe instead of trading our best perimeter defender, we should be bringing in more guys who can step up and get their own shot so it doesn't all fall on him and Ja.

Thank you. I don't see why people can't see this. Then again, as long as I have been posting on this board someone is always the scapegoat and they look the other way on other people's faults, just ask Pau Gasol. I'm not saying Dillon is on Pau's level but so many people on this board would blame Pau for everything and a lot were happy when he was traded. Meanwhile, dude went on to have a HoF career. Our front office is very data and analytics driven and from what I hear, the analytics show that we are a much better defensive team when Dillon plays and a better team overall. I don't see them proactively doing anything with him.

As far as hero ball, I heard Chris Herrington bring up a good point. The point was, most of Dillon's chucking and hero ball antics happen when Ja is not playing. Yes, there are exceptions but in general, his worse shooting games as far as high volume of shots and low shooting %, happen when Ja does not play. He hypothesized that when Ja is on the court, there is a hierarchy. Ja is the primary scorer but also the primary distributor who gets people involved. When Ja is out, there is no clear cut #2 option to become the primary scorer. It's not really Dillon, it's not really Bane, it's not really JJJ and Dillon takes it upon himself to be more aggressive to try and make up for that. When it works, it's great, when it doesn't, he looks like a chucker. Ja draws a lot of attention and creates opportunities for others to score.Although Tyus is a more pure PG, he's not a scoring threat so teams can play players closer and focus on whoever starts scoring. 

 

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7 hours ago, chipc3 said:

When has Dillon refused to come off the bench? Can someone show me when or where that was reported or is it just typical rumor driven misstatement? 

I also agree Dillon is a chucker but he's clearly not the biggest since Dion Waiters. He's more like JR Smith, a huge help when hot but unfortunately unable to realize when he isn't. 

Kinda like JR…but just a worse version…shoots more and at a worse percentage, especially from three. Obviously db is a better defender although jr was good in that respect on the cavs. 

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7 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Dillon only has 1 more year left so there wouldn't be any trade talks, he would just walk. I'm not against using Dillon as a 6th man but ZW is not the person I would want starting. We need another scorer in that starting lineup. I don't think it's ZW. We saw how many blitzed Ja and then attacked him on defense. Bane picked up the slack but he has back issues. We need another scoring threat imo. 

Thank you. I don't see why people can't see this. Then again, as long as I have been posting on this board someone is always the scapegoat and they look the other way on other people's faults, just ask Pau Gasol. I'm not saying Dillon is on Pau's level but so many people on this board would blame Pau for everything and a lot were happy when he was traded. Meanwhile, dude went on to have a HoF career. Our front office is very data and analytics driven and from what I hear, the analytics show that we are a much better defensive team when Dillon plays and a better team overall. I don't see them proactively doing anything with him.

As far as hero ball, I heard Chris Herrington bring up a good point. The point was, most of Dillon's chucking and hero ball antics happen when Ja is not playing. Yes, there are exceptions but in general, his worse shooting games as far as high volume of shots and low shooting %, happen when Ja does not play. He hypothesized that when Ja is on the court, there is a hierarchy. Ja is the primary scorer but also the primary distributor who gets people involved. When Ja is out, there is no clear cut #2 option to become the primary scorer. It's not really Dillon, it's not really Bane, it's not really JJJ and Dillon takes it upon himself to be more aggressive to try and make up for that. When it works, it's great, when it doesn't, he looks like a chucker. Ja draws a lot of attention and creates opportunities for others to score.Although Tyus is a more pure PG, he's not a scoring threat so teams can play players closer and focus on whoever starts scoring. 

 

A lot of great points here.  I also think that people need to remember that Dillon dealt with a couple of injury issues this season, missed 50 games, and as a result had his worst three-point shooting season since he joined the league.

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11 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

A lot of great points here.  I also think that people need to remember that Dillon dealt with a couple of injury issues this season, missed 50 games, and as a result had his worst three-point shooting season since he joined the league.

Yep, when he returned I believe they said his ankle would not be 100% this season. 

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26 minutes ago, Djf5233 said:

Kinda like JR…but just a worse version…shoots more and at a worse percentage, especially from three. Obviously db is a better defender although jr was good in that respect on the cavs. 

Should we get rid of Jaren too?  After all, Jaren only shot 1% better from three while jacking up more shots per game, plus Jaren was about 2% worse overall FG% and almost 3% worse from the FT line.

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7 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Dillon only has 1 more year left so there wouldn't be any trade talks, he would just walk. I'm not against using Dillon as a 6th man but ZW is not the person I would want starting. We need another scorer in that starting lineup. I don't think it's ZW. We saw how many blitzed Ja and then attacked him on defense. Bane picked up the slack but he has back issues. We need another scoring threat imo. 

 

 

This is the issue that I see with Dillon.... Does he play team ball in a contract year?

It seems that the front office considers ZW as the future of the core at the 3 with Ja, Bane, and JJJ.

If that is the case then they would have to remove Dillon from the equation.at some point to allow for ZW to grow into that role. If they can find another scoring threat and another wing defender it would make that transition much easier. Otherwise Dillon's mindset can make or break the next season.

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2 hours ago, trayhezy said:

This is the issue that I see with Dillon.... Does he play team ball in a contract year?

It seems that the front office considers ZW as the future of the core at the 3 with Ja, Bane, and JJJ.

If that is the case then they would have to remove Dillon from the equation.at some point to allow for ZW to grow into that role. If they can find another scoring threat and another wing defender it would make that transition much easier. Otherwise Dillon's mindset can make or break the next season.

I was wondering if he was viewed as the core or not 

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8 hours ago, trayhezy said:

This is the issue that I see with Dillon.... Does he play team ball in a contract year?

It seems that the front office considers ZW as the future of the core at the 3 with Ja, Bane, and JJJ.

If that is the case then they would have to remove Dillon from the equation.at some point to allow for ZW to grow into that role. If they can find another scoring threat and another wing defender it would make that transition much easier. Otherwise Dillon's mindset can make or break the next season.

What makes you say this?

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1 hour ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

What makes you say this?

I don't recall them ever referring to Dillon as a CORE guy.  They have said lots about Bane and how they handled him this past offseason IMHO that indicates they view him as a CORE guy.   I also see Bane getting a longer term deal than the 3yr deals Melt and Dillon got.    

I think Dillon Melt and Brandon are on the same tier with the FO.   Which is below Ja Jaren and Bane at this point (untouchables).   

Ziaire was targeted by FO and a Top 10 pick.  The fact that they intentionally developed and even started him for games (despite his rawness).  Should tell everybody that ZW is already at the Dillon Melt and Brandon level.   Its not a great leap in logic to see that FO envisions ZW as a future starter.  Rook started in Playoff Games!?!?!    His skillset is also a more ideal fit alongside Ja and Bane too.   He is a long athletic 3D wing that has real shot creation and playmaking potential,   People forget that ZW was a pegged as a Scorer going into Stanford.  

All he needs to do is get stronger in order to become a better defender.   Offensively he is just a much smoother fit with ja jaren and bane.  He is also the lob threat we need in starting unit.     He has better 3pt touch than Dillon already so better C&S option. 

However, i am fine with Dillon retaining his starting spot next season and continuing to develop ZW another year before promoting him.    

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20 hours ago, memphis slim said:

I don't see us being able to retain tyus as I believe a team will offer him a starting role and pay.

if that happens, then the fo is going to have to get aggressive in how to address the loss. ja, jjj and bane formulate our core. I'd take brooks and melton and a first rounder and see if I could get a nice fish to bite. I believe that that could yield a very talented player. 2 expirings- both very good defenders and one scoring guard for sure. said team could lock one or both up OR let both fall off the books for cap space and they have the draft pick.

 

slim.

I see Tyus going to.  I would be extremely hesitant to move on from both Melton and Dillon in same season.  Those are our two strongest perimeter defenders.   As long as Ja is here we will need strong perimeter defenders in rotation.  We need to keep at least one of them. 

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3 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I see Tyus going to.  I would be extremely hesitant to move on from both Melton and Dillon in same season.  Those are our two strongest perimeter defenders.   As long as Ja is here we will need strong perimeter defenders in rotation.  We need to keep at least one of them. 

very fair point. 

slim.

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11 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

Should we get rid of Jaren too?  After all, Jaren only shot 1% better from three while jacking up more shots per game, plus Jaren was about 2% worse overall FG% and almost 3% worse from the FT line.

Jaren is 22…Dillion is 26. 

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Trading Dillon would be a mistake, IMO, outside of a clearly winning trade. The players want continuity and attribute that in large part to their success from the transition from last year to this year. 

He's an imperfect player, but we need him and trading him is not any kind of short or long term answer.

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I don't recall them ever referring to Dillon as a CORE guy.  They have said lots about Bane and how they handled him this past offseason IMHO that indicates they view him as a CORE guy.   I also see Bane getting a longer term deal than the 3yr deals Melt and Dillon got.    

 

That's not the question that I asked. I asked how does he/she know that the front office considers ZW as the future 3 of the core. A lot of things can happen from trades to signing FAs to a draft pick surprising or moving up in the draft. I don't understand why people are so fixated on Dillon vs ZW as the only answers at 3, like it's only one or the other, and no other options. I don't think that is the case.

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1 hour ago, srmjr23 said:

Trading Dillon would be a mistake, IMO, outside of a clearly winning trade. The players want continuity and attribute that in large part to their success from the transition from last year to this year. 

He's an imperfect player, but we need him and trading him is not any kind of short or long term answer.

He barely even played this year tho. Not saying that it wouldn't have some kind of impact but Brooks did nothing this year

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16 minutes ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

He barely even played this year tho. Not saying that it wouldn't have some kind of impact but Brooks did nothing this year

This clearly diminishes his impact both on the court and off, and I'm not even sure what the point of saying that he was injured a lot this year goes to prove.

Dillon played in and started 40% of the games this season, outside of the playoffs. He averaged 18 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, and one steal per game. That's hardly "doing nothing" and to say so is just kind of a ridiculous oversimplification. You can make all sorts of arguments about his various deficiencies, and whether they should keep us from keeping him on the team, but his contributions to the team both on the floor and off the floor this season go far beyond doing nothing. 

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3 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

That's not the question that I asked. I asked how does he/she know that the front office considers ZW as the future 3 of the core. A lot of things can happen from trades to signing FAs to a draft pick surprising or moving up in the draft. I don't understand why people are so fixated on Dillon vs ZW as the only answers at 3, like it's only one or the other, and no other options. I don't think that is the case.

Do you see any other SF's on the roster?  For now the who should start at SF is ONLY a Dillon Vs ZW conversation. we arent in trade or FA season yet.  so we deal with the hand we are dealt.  

I think all of us oldheads on here  are all savvy enough to understand that FO isn't going to publicly make declarations on all their roster plans.  So if you are looking for a definitive statement as proof of their plan then yea there isnt one.   All we can do is use available data and make a "best guess" as to what will happen.    Some of us view the fact that FO pursued Ziaire in draft (their words) and how he was thrust into a more prominent role in spite of not having skills to merit it (earlier on).   As proof that FO see's ZW as an important piece going forward.    I mean dude is a 6'9' Top 10 lottery pick.   Why shouldn't it be assumed that they view him as a future CORE piece??  

As for competition for the slot.   Plenty of us have been championing the idea of drafting a 3/4 combo forward in the draft.  If they draft that type of player - then he would become part of the debate as well.     But no one should be expecting whoever that players is to surpass DB or ZW in SF pecking order.  Which is why the convo comes back around to ZW vs Dillon for staring SF role. 

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I am calming myself down, so I believe we should NOT trade DB unless we get value back.

Fact is that Ziaire showed us enought and DB made too much mess to be untouchable. If Ziaire make a jump like Bane did and as I expect he will coach should bench DB and turn him into sixthman. Its on coach now.

Usually Bane and Jaren are the two 1st to take a break, so having DB and Clarke would make us really good. If we can keep Tyus, I say two years 27 mil with the 2nd being a player option,  we will be good enought to home court if we stay healthy.

I expect a big jump from Santi also, ppl are acting like he is a scrub, but I like his fit next to Jaren/Clarke. Also I would like to draft a combo forward in the draft that is big enought to play small ball 5 in the Playoffs, someone like Tari Eason. That scenario keep Tillman in his place as the 5th big.

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Do you see any other SF's on the roster?  For now the who should start at SF is ONLY a Dillon Vs ZW conversation. we arent in trade or FA season yet.  so we deal with the hand we are dealt. 

The comment said FUTURE 3 of the core with Ja, JJJ and Bane. not now BUT FUTURE. Furthermore, we are not playing right now and won't play again until October 2022. The next time we play again the draft and free agency would have happened and people will be eligible to be traded. What sense does it make to take about the starting SF right now, when we can't play right now? The season is over. If we talk about a starting SF , it's about next season and all types of things can happen before then. I asked a simple question about where did he/she see that the FO considers ZW the FUTURE 3, that's all. Not sure why you are trying to re-direct it to something else.

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12 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

What makes you say this?

 

2 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

The comment said FUTURE 3 of the core with Ja, JJJ and Bane. not now BUT FUTURE. Furthermore, we are not playing right now and won't play again until October 2022. The next time we play again the draft and free agency would have happened and people will be eligible to be traded. What sense does it make to take about the starting SF right now, when we can't play right now? The season is over. If we talk about a starting SF , it's about next season and all types of things can happen before then. I asked a simple question about where did he/she see that the FO considers ZW the FUTURE 3, that's all. Not sure why you are trying to re-direct it to something else.

GTF gave you as much of an answer as I would have given.

If you are looking for direct quotes there are none.

However when both Kleinman and Jenkins said his development would be a "multi-year process" coupled with the fact that they drafted him in the top 10 and gave him as much developmental minutes as they could reasonable give, leads me to believe that they view him as something more than a bit bench player. You don't make that kind of investment in a player you dont think highly of.

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