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The REF

Dillon Brooks Has to Go

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Ex-Grizzlies mentoring program this off season should be:

TA with Ja, teach our superstar how to play defense and just plain show pride in defense. 

 

ZBO with Jaren, the obvious is rebounding and touch around the basket but just toughness and the 'we don't bluff' attitude. 

 

Shane Battier with Dillon, on how to be the ultimate team, smart player. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, FrenchGrizzlies said:

I read all and find it funny. We had a fantastic season and a great PO  but after 2 loss, we should trade Dillon, JJJ , even for some fired Jenkins !!! Come on guys...

Agreed

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48 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

If Ja keeps getting injured? He has the same injury he was just playing through it. His other injury was the ankle when he came down on someone’s foot aside from that he has had a lot of major injuries that keep him out and he seems to bounce back rather quickly from his injuries. If there are untouchables on this team Ja and Bane should be on that list.

Ja has injured both of his knees this year. This injury is a bone bruise in his right knee. He hurt his let knee earlier.

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28 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

True all players have flaws and fans will complain until said player starts to show real improvement in those areas.

 Bane’s first year he had a hard time creating a shot when he had to put the ball on the floor this year he improved.

Ja really couldn’t shoot his rookie season but now teams think twice about leaving him wide open and daring him to shoot.

ZW was trash to begin the season looked like he needed to be on the Hustle but he improved all in the same season. 

Can you really say that about Jaren when we are still discussing fouls and rebounds and his other red flags in year 4. Maybe he just develops slow Im sure the FO will give him every opportunity to reach his potential but I wouldn’t pass up a good deal if one came along.

The only players I think need to be moved are Dillon and Melton I just feel they can find better fits it may hurt some in the short term depending on the replacements but it could also turn out similar to the Rudy Tayshaun swap. 
 

I do feel like the evaluation period is over for the FO and all moves going forward will be made with winning in mind.

Huh? In the 1st round, Minny was daring Ja to shoot the 3 and he was bad. He shot 18%. GS dared him to shoot as well. He shot better at 45% but I don't think any team is thinking twice about leaving him alone. Their strategy seems to be to keep him out of the paint and force him to shoot outside jump shots. Both Minny and GS have tried to do this.

Also, by suggesting that Dillon and Melton should be traded, 2 players who I presume you think are underachieving and can't give us what we need, you are doing what fans of most teams do. They want to give up bad players and get much much better players in return. The NBA rarely works that way.

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2 hours ago, Teddy.B said:

 

No it is not. 

Hero-Ball is not team ball. 

Dillon should play singles Tennis not team sports. 

yup. he needs to go 

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21 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Huh? In the 1st round, Minny was daring Ja to shoot the 3 and he was bad. He shot 18%. GS dared him to shoot as well. He shot better at 45% but I don't think any team is thinking twice about leaving him alone. Their strategy seems to be to keep him out of the paint and force him to shoot outside jump shots. Both Minny and GS have tried to do this.

Also, by suggesting that Dillon and Melton should be traded, 2 players who I presume you think are underachieving and can't give us what we need, you are doing what fans of most teams do. They want to give up bad players and get much much better players in return. The NBA rarely works that way.

No I actually said I’d take lesser players in a deal I even referenced the Rudy Prince swap which was definitely a good player for a lesser player. I’m one of the biggest critics of guys trying to trade for other teams up and coming stars 

So no I’m not going to say let’s trade Dillon and Melton for Lavine, or Jaylen Brown, or any other established young player who would be a perfect fit.

I would suggest a Dillon or Melton for Josh Hart,  TRoss, Harrison Barnes, Thad Young, Will Barton, Jae’Sean Tate, Gary Trent, Derrick Jones Jr, Joe Harris, you know guys that are on their level but either provide stability as a vet or just a safe player that can be relied on to play their role and not be a liability. 

I have faith in this FO finding pieces in the draft and developing them so I’d much rather the team mold their own stars instead of chasing other teams guys. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Ndq0327 said:

Can you really say that about Jaren when we are still discussing fouls and rebounds and his other red flags in year 4. Maybe he just develops slow Im sure the FO will give him every opportunity to reach his potential but I wouldn’t pass up a good deal if one came along.

Yes Jaren developed into a DPOY candidate this year.   He was not good defensively his first couple of years - that is growth.   He also proved he can be a solid rebounder when playing the 5 but no one seems to give him credit for that either.    I really need ya'll to quit measuring a players rebounding impact based on Zbo, Jonas and Adams stats.   THOSE DUDES ARE ELITE REBOUNDERS.    Jaren proved he can be a solid rebounding Center when Adams was out.  

yes he has some of the same flaws but ignoring Jaren's growth on defense is just wrong.   Jaren is an Elite Defensive player, period.   Ja is a savant on offense and jaren is a savant on defense.   Surround them with 2 way players and we championship contenders.  Crazy thing neither of those dudes are anywhere near their Primes but ya'll still ready to trade Jaren..... crazy talk.      

Dillon is about to enter his prime so he basically "iswhoheis".     Jaren doesn't belong in any trade discussion.  Did ya'll not see what he did to GSW on defense yesterday???  Teams can't play Jaren off the court - only Jaren (and Jenkins) plays himself off the court.  

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55 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yes Jaren developed into a DPOY candidate this year.   He was not good defensively his first couple of years - that is growth.   He also proved he can be a solid rebounder when playing the 5 but no one seems to give him credit for that either.    I really need ya'll to quit measuring a players rebounding impact based on Zbo, Jonas and Adams stats.   THOSE DUDES ARE ELITE REBOUNDERS.    Jaren proved he can be a solid rebounding Center when Adams was out.  

yes he has some of the same flaws but ignoring Jaren's growth on defense is just wrong.   Jaren is an Elite Defensive player, period.   Ja is a savant on offense and jaren is a savant on defense.   Surround them with 2 way players and we championship contenders.  Crazy thing neither of those dudes are anywhere near their Primes but ya'll still ready to trade Jaren..... crazy talk.      

Dillon is about to enter his prime so he basically "iswhoheis".     Jaren doesn't belong in any trade discussion.  Did ya'll not see what he did to GSW on defense yesterday???  Teams can't play Jaren off the court - only Jaren (and Jenkins) plays himself off the court.  

Could not agree more. the people that want to trade jaren are nuts. 

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4 hours ago, FrenchGrizzlies said:

I read all and find it funny. We had a fantastic season and a great PO  but after 2 loss, we should trade Dillon, JJJ , even for some fired Jenkins !!! Come on guys...

Trade Dillon yes. But a lot of people where saying that before these playoffs even started. Dillon leads the team in shots when he’s at best the 4th best option offensively and he’s going to want to get paid. Isn’t that the reason people wanted Rudy gone? And Rudy was a much better offensive talent than Dillon. 

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We have 2 options :

- keeping Dillon with his good part ( defense, energy) and in this case, coaching  is important. We can't let him beeing stupid. but we need in defense. People believing ZW can start and pair with Ja are  wrond for me. There are both 2 terrible defenders. And as Ja is fantastic on offense situation, we should surround him with good defender as is JJJ.                                                                                                                                          

- Trading him  if he want too much money, but in this case, we need more defense for new player coming.

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9 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yes Jaren developed into a DPOY candidate this year.   He was not good defensively his first couple of years - that is growth.   He also proved he can be a solid rebounder when playing the 5 but no one seems to give him credit for that either.    I really need ya'll to quit measuring a players rebounding impact based on Zbo, Jonas and Adams stats.   THOSE DUDES ARE ELITE REBOUNDERS.    Jaren proved he can be a solid rebounding Center when Adams was out.  

yes he has some of the same flaws but ignoring Jaren's growth on defense is just wrong.   Jaren is an Elite Defensive player, period.   Ja is a savant on offense and jaren is a savant on defense.   Surround them with 2 way players and we championship contenders.  Crazy thing neither of those dudes are anywhere near their Primes but ya'll still ready to trade Jaren..... crazy talk.      

Dillon is about to enter his prime so he basically "iswhoheis".     Jaren doesn't belong in any trade discussion.  Did ya'll not see what he did to GSW on defense yesterday???  Teams can't play Jaren off the court - only Jaren (and Jenkins) plays himself off the court.  

A savant on defense doesn’t foul out of games why are you overlooking that. And like I said improving your rebound from bottom of the barrel to half full is not impressive.

If my center can’t average close to 8-10 rbs a game then that’s not good enough.

If I could have Evan Mobley right now for Jaren I’d do that he’s a much more complete player as a rookie than Jaren is in his 4th year
 

https://stathead.com/tiny/XVF9M

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It’s weird how some of y’all think Jaren and Dillon can fix their bad habits they have had their entire career but that ZW can’t improve his game enough to justify giving him Dillons role when he has actually shown improvement since the beginning of the year.

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15 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Yeah, of course he's a rookie. I'm not criticizing the guy. I just don't think he's an easy replacement for Dillon in these playoffs like some people believe. He started game 3 and played 30 minutes which is a lot of opportunity, didn't do much. As far as I can tell, he hits the open 3 and finishes at the rim. I haven't seen much evidence that Ziaire can create his own shot or take people off the dribble or consistently hit the mid range or any signature moves or anything. Obviously he's a rookie so I don't expect that either but I think if he replaced Dillon, the moment would be too big for him right now cause he's not ready. I think people are having pipe dreams thinking slotting him in for DIllon would solve any problems in these playoffs. He needs another year or 2.

The question for me is not what Ziaire hasn't shown he can do. The question is does he do what is needed as the 4/5 offensive option? With a healthy Ja, Desmond and Jaren do we want the SF to go 5-19 or 3-18 or 3-13  or 4-14 which is what Dillon Brooks has done in the playoffs this season. Do the Grizzlies need a SF who thinks he's good enough on this team to take as many if not more attempts than the other three? 

Dillon's defense is a major plus and if Dillon would accept the role of primary defender and not primary, not secondary not even tertiary scorer. If Dillon could accept the 3 and D guy role (which is what the team needs when at full strength) I have no problem with him. I just don't see him accepting that role. Some people's ego won't allow them to accept that role and from what I have seen Dillon falls into that group. ZW s not ready today to be the main 3 and D guy today but he does appear to be ready to step into that role next season. 

This series is what it always was expected to be to me. A learning experience and a chance to show the world what is coming. But make no mistake, the Grizzlies (even if they were completely healthy and they aren't) do not have the composure or experience to defeat this Golden State team in a seven game series. 
 

Quote

“Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment.”
 Rita Mae Brown, Alma Mater

 The Grizzlies will be better for this experience. Don't bemoan the gaining of this experience. It is a part of the process of becoming a champion. Rerember that the Warriors lost in the conference semi-finals the year before they started their run to the title. 

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1 hour ago, Ndq0327 said:

 

If my center can’t average close to 8-10 rbs a game then that’s not good enough.

 

There were only 16 players in the entire NBA who averaged 10 or more rebounds in the regular season this year, and only 36 who averaged 8 or more. That's out of around 500 players.

And Jaren plays mostly as a power forward, not a center. There were only 7 players in the NBA who averaged 8 or more rebounds per game playing as power forwards.

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Just more excuses like I said give me Mobley for Jaren and I’d do it.

In 78 games this season Jaren had 7 double digit rebounding games

In 69 games this season Mobley had 21 double digit rebounding games 

In 56 games this season Jarret Allen the Center for Cleveland had 33 double digit rebounding games

So that mean playing mostly PF Mobley had 3 times as many 10+ rebounding games as a rookie 

So forgive me if I’m not all that interested in the stats of how rare it is to average a measly 8-10 rebounds a game for a big man in the nba.

Sticking with Cleveland Jaren is basically Laurie Markkanen that can protect the rim 

https://stathead.com/tiny/Zm8e8

Idk if a shot blocking Markkanen is someone the fans would call a pillar of their franchise but that’s about what he sums up to. 

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20 minutes ago, KyleB said:

There were only 16 players in the entire NBA who averaged 10 or more rebounds in the regular season this year, and only 36 who averaged 8 or more. That's out of around 500 players.

And Jaren plays mostly as a power forward, not a center. There were only 7 players in the NBA who averaged 8 or more rebounds per game playing as power forwards.

Thank you.  Too many people are superSpoiled by Zbo Jonas and Adams and truly think those guys rebounding numbers are the norm.  

 

2 hours ago, Ndq0327 said:

It’s weird how some of y’all think Jaren and Dillon can fix their bad habits they have had their entire career but that ZW can’t improve his game enough to justify giving him Dillons role when he has actually shown improvement since the beginning of the year.

I think we all understand jaren still has to fix his fouling issues.  No one disputes that; but ignoring his growth over the years into a potential DPOY candidate just to push a "Jaren should be traded" narrative is wrong.   Jaren has the physical tools and talent to actually become a Top 10 player in this league and has already provided Elite production on defensive end.  Like someone else mentioned - there are no perfect NBA players. 

 If people are gonna roast Jaren for showing not enough growth on offense then Ja needs to be roasted for his godawful defense.   Ja has been almost unplayable at times due to how bad he has been on defense.   No one is talking about trading him?  

Ja will get All NBA Second Team and Jaren most likely will get an All Defensive Second team selection.    Neither of these dudes are older than 23y.     Its CRAZY to suggest trading either. 

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1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Thank you.  Too many people are superSpoiled by Zbo Jonas and Adams and truly think those guys rebounding numbers are the norm.  

 

I think we all understand jaren still has to fix his fouling issues.  No one disputes that; but ignoring his growth over the years into a potential DPOY candidate just to push a "Jaren should be traded" narrative is wrong.   Jaren has the physical tools and talent to actually become a Top 10 player in this league and has already provided Elite production on defensive end.  Like someone else mentioned - there are no perfect NBA players. 

 If people are gonna roast Jaren for showing not enough growth on offense then Ja needs to be roasted for his godawful defense.   Ja has been almost unplayable at times due to how bad he has been on defense.   No one is talking about trading him?  

Ja will get All NBA Second Team and Jaren most likely will get an All Defensive Second team selection.    Neither of these dudes are older than 23y.     Its CRAZY to suggest trading either. 

Well when you are in the mvp of the league talks I think you can get a pass for not playing defense with 100% effort all the time Ja and Jaren are not comparable Ja is on a totally different level than Jaren.

And the only person comparing Jaren’s rebounds to elite rebounders is you I specifically compared him to Evan Mobley cause I think this team would be significantly better if they had a big like him as opposed to what Jaren contributes. Cause then we wouldn’t  have to play a big like Adams and could maximize the starting 5 to its greatest potential. 

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11 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

Just more excuses like I said give me Mobley for Jaren and I’d do it.

In 78 games this season Jaren had 7 double digit rebounding games

In 69 games this season Mobley had 21 double digit rebounding games 

In 56 games this season Jarret Allen the Center for Cleveland had 33 double digit rebounding games

So that mean playing mostly PF Mobley had 3 times as many 10+ rebounding games as a rookie 

So forgive me if I’m not all that interested in the stats of how rare it is to average a measly 8-10 rebounds a game for a big man in the nba.

Sticking with Cleveland Jaren is basically Laurie Markkanen that can protect the rim 

https://stathead.com/tiny/Zm8e8

Idk if a shot blocking Markkanen is someone the fans would call a pillar of their franchise but that’s about what he sums up to. 

If you want to be an Evan Mobley fanboy go root for the Cavs. 

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1 minute ago, Ndq0327 said:

Well when you are in the mvp of the league talks I think you can get a pass for not playing defense with 100% effort all the time Ja and Jaren are not comparable Ja is on a totally different level than Jaren.

And the only person comparing Jaren’s rebounds to elite rebounders is you I specifically compared him to Evan Mobley cause I think this team would be significantly better if they had a big like him as opposed to what Jaren contributes. Cause then we wouldn’t  have to play a big like Adams and could maximize the starting 5 to its greatest potential. 

Ja and Jaren ARE comparable because we had a 20-5 record when Ja was out and Jaren was usually maximized in those games.   We also could've beaten GSW the other day with Ja out primarily because Jaren's defense was so elite.   They are BOTH the cornerstones for a reason.    

How many Evan Mobley's are there our there?   So we should dropkick 22yr old DPOY candidate because a once in generational talent rookie is showing more promise?!?!  

Did you not watch the regular season games when Adams was out?  Jaren avg around 8-9rbs in those games.   

The rebounding vitriol is silly at this point.  Jaren's only real flaw is his fouling.  He is ONLY 22y and his offensive game is still growing.   

Regardless, FO aint trading Jaren.   Ya'll need to accept and get over it.    Stick with the OP about Dillon.   

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7 minutes ago, KyleB said:

If you want to be an Evan Mobley fanboy go root for the Cavs. 

I’m not a “fanboy” of anyone it ain’t that crucial but I have all the right to be critical of a player the same way you have the right to defend him.
 

I’ve long stated that Ja would benefit much more from a big man that plays inside out than from a big man that plays pro dominantly outside.
 

Evan Mobley is the closet example of the type of player I’m referencing. Jaren is a big man that plays like a 3-D wing. 

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1 hour ago, KyleB said:

There were only 16 players in the entire NBA who averaged 10 or more rebounds in the regular season this year, and only 36 who averaged 8 or more. That's out of around 500 players.

And Jaren plays mostly as a power forward, not a center. There were only 7 players in the NBA who averaged 8 or more rebounds per game playing as power forwards.

Jaren Jackson ranked as the 21st best rebounding PF in the league this season. If you considered him a center (some have argued all season he gets significant minutes there) he drops to 26th in the league if you use his playoff rebounding numbers. He falls to tied for 35th if you use his regular season numbers. 

Apparently, there are a lot of players who fall in the range between 8 and 5.8 rebounds as Jaren did in the regular season. Jaren has improved his rebounding numbers in the playoffs but is still 3rd on the team in rebounding (behind Ja and Brandon). 

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20 hours ago, My man Allen said:

22 year old defensive player of the year caliber defender 

 

Where do you rank him? Top 10?  lol.   He's not even a Top 15 player, what are you talking about.

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18 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

My comments have been about right now, yes, they have been.

 

You are making a lot of assumptions about Dillon. Where have you seen either him and/or his agent say he won't come off of the bench or that he wants a "big payday" (whatever that means in today's NBA numbers). Justy seems to be a lot of assumptions. I haven't heard any of that.

All player have flaws and I get the feeling no matter who we get, people will complain

I guess I'm just more patient than people on this board. We will be fine. We weren't supposed to win the championship this year or even make it to the second round. We are progressing ahead of schedule but we need to stay healthy. If deals come up that make us better, sure make them, but don't force anything.

 

It's not about WINNING the championship this year, its about having SMART and COMPETENT players!  Dillion has been playing like a Junior College player and not a PRO.   You can keep him around for 2, 3 or 4 more years but I'm not going for it.

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14 hours ago, King Dork said:

Trade Dillon yes. But a lot of people where saying that before these playoffs even started. Dillon leads the team in shots when he’s at best the 4th best option offensively and he’s going to want to get paid. Isn’t that the reason people wanted Rudy gone? And Rudy was a much better offensive talent than Dillon. 

 

That's all people were saying!

If you package Dillion Brooks + Jaren Jackson (TRIP) + a 1st for Anthony Davis.

Anybody else like this trade proposal.

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4 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Ja and Jaren ARE comparable because we had a 20-5 record when Ja was out and Jaren was usually maximized in those games.   We also could've beaten GSW the other day with Ja out primarily because Jaren's defense was so elite.   They are BOTH the cornerstones for a reason.    

How many Evan Mobley's are there our there?   So we should dropkick 22yr old DPOY candidate because a once in generational talent rookie is showing more promise?!?!  

Did you not watch the regular season games when Adams was out?  Jaren avg around 8-9rbs in those games.   

The rebounding vitriol is silly at this point.  Jaren's only real flaw is his fouling.  He is ONLY 22y and his offensive game is still growing.   

Regardless, FO aint trading Jaren.   Ya'll need to accept and get over it.    Stick with the OP about Dillon.   

 

 

But that's when you TRADE a player crazy, you don't wait until they 40, or 50 years old.  (ok, I'm being funny right there), but you get the best value now.  Jaren has reached his ceiling, it's time to JETTISON him now.

22 years old, no drive to get better, reckless on the court, take ill-advise shots, plays out of position, a liability on defense, foul, foul, foul, man move this GUY as soon as you can.

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