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The REF

Dillon Brooks Has to Go

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8 minutes ago, Thegoodguys said:

Yeah I've never understood why people like him so much around here. He plays physical D but he doesn't have great length or incredible lateral quickness. We've all seen what more athletic guards can do to him like what Donovan Mitchell did last year in the playoffs. Then you add in the inefficient volume shooting. 

Defense only wings are cheap and there are a lot of them out there better than Dillon. I'm pretty sure we could offer Josh Okogie a less than $5 million contract and replace Dillon's defense and then some and not have to worry about some of the other stuff that comes with DB.

++ 100

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4 minutes ago, The REF said:

What about an Al Horford or someone like his stature.   He’s provided great dividends for Boston.  He can step out and pop, defend and he might have a good 2/3 more years in him!  2 years for sure.

Another decent player would be to pick up Memphis own, Thaddeus Young might could give you more or the same as Brooks for about the same price and he plays HELLUVA SMART basketball.

Agreed that’s why Jaren also isn’t a good fit cause he is supposed to be the center but as you laid out his rebounding isn’t up to par and he doesn’t set good pics which maximizes what Ja can do at this point Jaren is filling in as the stretch four rim protector at a very inflated price when you could have your center cover your rim protection screen setting and rebounding while getting a more versatile stretch 4 who can defend bigs and smalls.

 

I think Jaren and his non improving skillset is hamstringing both the 4/5 spot in the starting lineup 

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Just now, kevofrommempho said:

You guys are going to miss DB if he leaves.  Without his hard-nosed, versatile defense we would not have beaten the TWolves.  

I wish I could paste dang screenshots in these boards.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brookdi01/on-off/2022

Dillon’s defense alone isn’t enough to outweigh the fact that he doesn’t want to come off the bench and will likely want more money on his next contract.

let’s not forget Dillon led the league in fouls last season that’s not really how the defensive stopper role is supposed to work between Dillon and Jaren your two main defenders could both be in foul trouble on any given night.

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31 minutes ago, The REF said:

Hey @chipc3

 

do you think the series is over?

it’s probably a wrap right?

Over? Nothing is over...

See the source image

but it is very difficult to see a way for the Grizzlies to win. Jenkins won't comment on Ja's injury but JJJ says it is"very sad" and Ja himself is talking about responding to difficult situations so I don't believe he will be back in this series. 

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1 hour ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

BC only played 11 minutes though. Maybe he should've gotten more run?

BC has had a total of 8 pts and 6 boards the pats 2 games. The overall team was not good last night. I don't think  theer was any savior coming to take the game over. Personally, I felt Jenkins should have sat Dillon but also felt he should have challenged that Bane foul on Curry where Curry clearly flopped. I have not been impressed with Jenkins decisions and rotations in thbe playoffs even in the Minny series. I have been confused.

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43 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

Dillon chucking shots is not something you live just cause he plays defense and had 8 assists a shot checker is someone that comes off the bench and you take him out when he’s not hitting its well documented that Brooks thinks he’s a main guy on the roster and is not interested in coming off the bench so therefore the FO should not be interest in giving him another contract just for his defense and inconsistent offense.

This ain’t Wallace and co. The Grizz don’t have to settle anymore they have a good track record in the draft, cap flexibility and trade assets there’s nothing holding them back if they want to make bold moves.

So who was supposed to step up? If you noticed, I criticized the entire team. Dillon was not solely responsible for losing a  double digit lead in the 4Q. Yes, you have to live with it. What else are you going to do sign a 25 ppg scorer who shoots 45% from 3 in the playoffs? It is what it is. We know what it is but I am not any more comfortable with Ziaire Williams or Melton starting. I know WIlliams is the popular pick but all he is done is proven that he can hit wide open 3's (well, he was 1-4 last night) and finish on the break mainly when Ja passes him the ball. If he started, defenses would lock in on him and his defense is horrible. We don't have any other better options

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2 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

So who was supposed to step up? If you noticed, I criticized the entire team. Dillon was not solely responsible for losing a  double digit lead in the 4Q. Yes, you have to live with it. What else are you going to do sign a 25 ppg scorer who shoots 45% from 3 in the playoffs? It is what it is. We know what it is but I am not any more comfortable with Ziaire Williams or Melton starting. I know WIlliams is the popular pick but all he is done is proven that he can hit wide open 3's (well, he was 1-4 last night) and finish on the break mainly when Ja passes him the ball. If he started, defenses would lock in on him and his defense is horrible. We don't have any other better options

See the source image

Except about Williams. Ziaire is a rookie and played well for a rookie in the season and in the playoffs. He will improve and even if he doesn't I would love every team to dedicate a defender to stop Ziaire as our 4/5 scoring option. That would free up space inside for Desmond, Jaren and Ja to operate. Please waste a body standing at the three point line watching a guy we don't run plays for. 

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5 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

So who was supposed to step up? If you noticed, I criticized the entire team. Dillon was not solely responsible for losing a  double digit lead in the 4Q. Yes, you have to live with it. What else are you going to do sign a 25 ppg scorer who shoots 45% from 3 in the playoffs? It is what it is. We know what it is but I am not any more comfortable with Ziaire Williams or Melton starting. I know WIlliams is the popular pick but all he is done is proven that he can hit wide open 3's (well, he was 1-4 last night) and finish on the break mainly when Ja passes him the ball. If he started, defenses would lock in on him and his defense is horrible. We don't have any other better options

Does Bane chuck shots? The FO found him so why can’t they find another I don’t understand this board and how people feel like you can’t get rid of a player cause of the tired excuse of who else is gonna do it? Seriously like I said this FO doesn’t have to settle anymore Dillon isn’t the only basketball player in the world that can play defense and occasionally have a hot game scoring. Sure they don’t have anyone right now other than Ja and Dillon but that doesn’t mean Dillon cant be replaced in the off season. 
 

Your response is very short sight ZW is a rookie everyone thought was gonna be trash and he has been more and more serviceable as the season has gone along. Dillon is only getting credit cause he was the first Grizz rookie in a very long time to pan out and be reasonably good.For a rookie ZW has stepped up to the best of his ability and taken on tough defensive assignments and sometimes he does well and sometimes he doesn’t but that’s a rookie vs a vet going into his 3rd contract. I’d much rather take my chances on the rook and whatever they can get in a Dillon trade vs over paying Brooks especially when he doesn’t want to come off the bench in a role better suited for his play style.

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ZW8's defense has improved drastically as the season went on.  He doesn't even look like the same player now.

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2 hours ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

BC only played 11 minutes though. Maybe he should've gotten more run?

No, he was pretty bad last night. That was absolutely the right call. Kyle, Jaren, and Adams were doing well. 

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I know we're giving Dillon a lot of crap, but just look at the other team as well. Klay Thompson was 6-20 for 14 points and had 3 turnovers. Should the Warriors' fans be clamoring to get rid of him. 

My point is, he hasn't been great, but that doesn't mean he can't play well again. This has can a weird season for him, being out long stretches of the season multiple times. He was still really good defensively last night, plus actually passed the ball with 8 assists. I highly doubt anything is going to happen as far as a trade is concerned. He's going to be in a contract year next year, so let him play that out. The good news is with ZW, we aren't desperate for a big wing that can defend multiple positions and provide some scoring. 

Let him have a fully healthy offseason. Hopefully he can find his shot again, as that was really the only thing holding him back. His 2p percentage has gotten back to a very respectable level, now he needs to get his 3 point shot back to 35%. With a broken thumb there was no way we was really able to shoot, and then again with the ankle sprain, no way to practice a true jump shot either. 

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yea stop the madness on Jaren being on hot seat nonsense.    Jaren Bane and Ja are the Co-MVPs of this season.   Jaren's defense is absolutely Elite and he isn't on a Max contract.   Ya'll need to put down the skunk weed.  Aint two many dudes with Jaren's talent/potential at his size in the NBA.   He is exact kind of project player that you develop as a Small Market franchise.   Jaren is leading the Playoffs in shot blocks.  Dude future is BRIGHT.   

Also Stop the Madness in regards to Dillon being essential to this teams success going forward.   We won an awful lot of games without him this season.   His defense is replaceable and his offense isnt needed.     Get a scoring combo and an athletic wing defender with size or just find our own Herb Jones in the draft.      Already having Ziaire on the payroll makes moving on from Dillon way more realistic than any other time.   Plus Taylor has already ruined the relationship and DB doesn't have to change.  

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Man the Brooks step back 3 brick and then immediately running into Curry for no reason was brutal by him. Just rewatched the video

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50 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Get a scoring combo and an athletic wing defender with size or just find our own Herb Jones in the draft.      

What is with this 6-9 wing from Wake Forest that is suddenly jumping up the mock drafts?  Some list him as a guard.

Is he athletic enough to be a late first round pick?  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdznh8QX8qU

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4 minutes ago, bhoyal said:

What is with this 6-9 wing from Wake Forest that is suddenly jumping up the mock drafts?  Some list him as a guard.

Is he athletic enough to be a late first round pick?  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdznh8QX8qU

Went To Larry Bird'd college before transferring to Tim Duncan and Chris Paul's alma mater. Gotta love the pedigree. 

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2 hours ago, Ndq0327 said:

Does Bane chuck shots? The FO found him so why can’t they find another I don’t understand this board and how people feel like you can’t get rid of a player cause of the tired excuse of who else is gonna do it? Seriously like I said this FO doesn’t have to settle anymore Dillon isn’t the only basketball player in the world that can play defense and occasionally have a hot game scoring. Sure they don’t have anyone right now other than Ja and Dillon but that doesn’t mean Dillon cant be replaced in the off season. 
 

 

Of course Dillon chucks shots.I already said he has poor shot selection.  As far as everything else you said, I have no idea what you are talking about. I never even made those points. I am specifically talking about last night and this specific playoff series. I have not once said anything about next year or going forward. I am saying we didn't have any better options last night and we can't just go and sign a guy in the middle of the playoffs. Furthermore, when we didn't have Dillon, we got blown out by 30,

Quote

Your response is very short sight ZW is a rookie everyone thought was gonna be trash and he has been more and more serviceable as the season has gone along. Dillon is only getting credit cause he was the first Grizz rookie in a very long time to pan out and be reasonably good.For a rookie ZW has stepped up to the best of his ability and taken on tough defensive assignments and sometimes he does well and sometimes he doesn’t but that’s a rookie vs a vet going into his 3rd contract. I’d much rather take my chances on the rook and whatever they can get in a Dillon trade vs over paying Brooks especially when he doesn’t want to come off the bench in a role better suited for his play style.

You believe what you want to believe buddy. You clearly have hatred for Dillon and are trying to argue with me over stuff I didn't say. Here's the thing about ZW. You do realize he started Game 3 and played 30 minutes right? What did he do? He had 7 points and the Grizz lost by 30. Dude is not ready to have defenses focus on him. As I mentioned earlier, he gets his points off of wide open 3s and finishing at the rim. He is better than he was at the beginning ofthe year but he has had opportunitie sin this series and hasn't done much either.

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21 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Of course Dillon chucks shots.I already said he has poor shot selection.  As far as everything else you said, I have no idea what you are talking about. I never even made those points. I am specifically talking about last night and this specific playoff series. I have not once said anything about next year or going forward. I am saying we didn't have any better options last night and we can't just go and sign a guy in the middle of the playoffs. Furthermore, when we didn't have Dillon, we got blown out by 30,

You believe what you want to believe buddy. You clearly have hatred for Dillon and are trying to argue with me over stuff I didn't say. Here's the thing about ZW. You do realize he started Game 3 and played 30 minutes right? What did he do? He had 7 points and the Grizz lost by 30. Dude is not ready to have defenses focus on him. As I mentioned earlier, he gets his points off of wide open 3s and finishing at the rim. He is better than he was at the beginning ofthe year but he has had opportunitie sin this series and hasn't done much either.

Your takes in this thread are absolutely mind boggling/bad. Dillion must’ve some dirt on you….he’s absolutely brutal, 100% the reason we’re down 3-1 instead of up 3-1… even a  bad performance in games 1 and 4 get us wins. But he was spectacularly awful especially last night. Everyone’s focusing on his awful shot selection (which was brutal) but on top of that he was one of worst defenders, constantly caught ball watching and out of position. 0 basketball IQ.

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

 

Except about Williams. Ziaire is a rookie and played well for a rookie in the season and in the playoffs. He will improve and even if he doesn't I would love every team to dedicate a defender to stop Ziaire as our 4/5 scoring option. That would free up space inside for Desmond, Jaren and Ja to operate. Please waste a body standing at the three point line watching a guy we don't run plays for. 

Yeah, of course he's a rookie. I'm not criticizing the guy. I just don't think he's an easy replacement for Dillon in these playoffs like some people believe. He started game 3 and played 30 minutes which is a lot of opportunity, didn't do much. As far as I can tell, he hits the open 3 and finishes at the rim. I haven't seen much evidence that Ziaire can create his own shot or take people off the dribble or consistently hit the mid range or any signature moves or anything. Obviously he's a rookie so I don't expect that either but I think if he replaced Dillon, the moment would be too big for him right now cause he's not ready. I think people are having pipe dreams thinking slotting him in for DIllon would solve any problems in these playoffs. He needs another year or 2.

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2 minutes ago, Djf5233 said:

Your takes in this thread are absolutely mind boggling/bad. Dillion must’ve some dirt on you….he’s absolutely brutal, 100% the reason we’re down 3-1 instead of up 3-1… even a  bad performance in games 1 and 4 get us wins. But he was spectacularly awful especially last night. Everyone’s focusing on his awful shot selection (which was brutal) but on top of that he was one of worst defenders, constantly caught ball watching and out of position. 0 basketball IQ.

Can you people read? I flat out said that Dillon was awful. Don't believe me, let me quote myself:

Quote

Dillon played good D and led the team with 8 assists. He was awful on offense as far as shot selection but he didn't lose that game last night. It was a collective effort

I admitted that he was awful. What else are you guys looking for? Did he lose the game? NO. He did not. You know why? I tell you why:

  • Taylor Jenkins and  his trash @$$ rotations hurt. His bad decision making hurt us. His lack of challenging that play the end of the game hurt us. His unwillingness of wanting to go inside more has hurt us,
  • Desmond Bane and his lack of aggressiveness hurt us. If he's injured, don't play. Otherwise my expectation is for him to produce and he has not. As Charles Barkley mentioned, it's the playoffs, you better figure out a way to play and produce. Barkley mentioned he got shot up with some horse anti-inflammatory before a game. If Desmond can't go, don't play
  • Our bench: Melton, Clarke, and WIlliams combined for 11 points. We need more from our bench to beat the Warriors. The Warriors bench had 36 points. Kyle was the only bench player to step up with 17 points and he's not a scorer. He's another guy this boarda nd Grizz fans attack when stuff goes wrong

 

SloMo, Jones, Adams, and JJJ were the only productive players. With that being said, they had their shortcomings. Kyle Anderson went 2-7 from the free throw line including missing like 3 in a row in the 3Q . As a matter of fact, Kyle and Jaren were the only 2 Grizzlies to even attempt free throws. You think playing like that will beat the Warriors? JJJ went 0-7 from 3 pt range. Jones became passive down the stretch. People talk about Dillon but Tyus kept passing him the ball and Jenkins left Dillon in the game. This was a team effort to lose this game and I really believe GS was never in any danger of losing this game. They knew they could turn it on at any time. You guys are so fixated on blaming Dillon that you are overlooking that other than 4 guys the entire team played like crap including the coaching

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I don't like Draymond Green at all but this quote says it all, when their bench dominates our bench and their stars show up in crunch time, it's more than just a Dillon Brooks problem. This board is always blaming somebody-Dillon, JJJ, SloMo. Truth of the matter is, when it's going well, it goes well, when it's not, we have streaky players who go in slumps and JJJ and Dillon are at the top of that list:

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

I don't like Draymond Green at all but this quote says it all, when their bench dominates our bench and their stars show up in crunch time, it's more than just a Dillon Brooks problem. This board is always blaming somebody-Dillon, JJJ, SloMo. Truth of the matter is, when it's going well, it goes well, when it's not, we have streaky players who go in slumps and JJJ and Dillon are at the top of that list:

 

 

You say Jaren and Dillon are at the top of the list of players tht we have that go on slumps and people want to rely on them as pillars of the franchise. I don’t understand how some people on this board put two and two together why would I want to rely on two players I have no idea what I will get from then on any given night. 
 

I’d rather have two less talented player that I can rely on their contribution from game to game instead of crossing my fingers that tonight I’ll get good Jaren or good Dillon 

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1 hour ago, bhoyal said:

What is with this 6-9 wing from Wake Forest that is suddenly jumping up the mock drafts?  Some list him as a guard.

Is he athletic enough to be a late first round pick?  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdznh8QX8qU

We've been talking about him a fair bit on the draft pick thread. He's fairly athletic, can finish inside, and can shoot the 3. I personally think he's more of a stretch pf than a sf but he might be able to do both. He seems like he'll be a good player as long as he gets a chance to prove himself which is always more of a question if he goes in the second round.

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

yea stop the madness on Jaren being on hot seat nonsense.    Jaren Bane and Ja are the Co-MVPs of this season.   Jaren's defense is absolutely Elite and he isn't on a Max contract.   Ya'll need to put down the skunk weed.  Aint two many dudes with Jaren's talent/potential at his size in the NBA.   He is exact kind of project player that you develop as a Small Market franchise.   Jaren is leading the Playoffs in shot blocks.  Dude future is BRIGHT.   

Also Stop the Madness in regards to Dillon being essential to this teams success going forward.   We won an awful lot of games without him this season.   His defense is replaceable and his offense isnt needed.     Get a scoring combo and an athletic wing defender with size or just find our own Herb Jones in the draft.      Already having Ziaire on the payroll makes moving on from Dillon way more realistic than any other time.   Plus Taylor has already ruined the relationship and DB doesn't have to change.  

So now Jaren is a “Project” that just sound like another excuse to pacify his lack of improvement. People say he has improved his rebounding but that’s not special when you are going from below average rebounding to average rebounding. I’ve also heard his fouling wasn’t as bad during the season well great he waited till the games counted the most to revert back to bad habits. Scoring at the rim is almost nonexistent for some reason, and a mid range game is completely non existent. I think ZW has caught more lobs this season than Jaren which is mind boggling to me I don’t even know what kind of player Jaren would even be classified as. 7’0 shot blocking three pt specialist?
 

However he’s the perfect project big cause he can hit threes and block shots I guess he’ll be the next Conley and we will just have to wait for everything to finally come together cause he’s only 22 and you can’t move off of player like that so soon into their career. 

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