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BigHunkALove

Memphis Grizzlies Trade Deadline 2021-22 and beyond

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

So, you believe the draft is random and more late picks make more sense than one higher pick AND you believe that your mock draft can make sense of the randomness and provide value.

Your ability to rationalize away completely contrary statements is truly amazing. And no one cares who you say you liked or didn't like in the last draft. I believe you were hating on ZW after the draft? I guess that randomness worked in reverse for the Grizzlies when they got known players and a higher draft pick instead of multiple later picks. 

Are you stating that the Grizzlies Front Offce also made a mistake by trading multiple second round picks to move up to 30th in the draft to pick Aldama?

 

Wrong.  I was hating on ZW8 BEFORE the draft.  Metrics were meh.  Measurements were meh.  Not much of an IT factor.  ... Grizz moved up, said ZW8 had a great work out.  Not going to second guess the FO about that.  I wanted Giddey then some other guys (Trey Murphy III/Vrenz Bleijenbergh).  I was of the belief that the draft looked solid where we were: I also wanted to trade with the Knicks: loved all their picks (McBride/Grimes/Jericho Sims) but let's see what happens.  Whatever I wrote about ZW8 after the draft is what I said.  I mostly posted that he looks "2 years away".  More recently I thought he had Michael Cooper 2.0 upside (with shades of Mike Miller).  Essentially that's who he reminds me of.  ... didn't like Moses Moody.  Still don't.  Josh Giddey might have more flash (maybe even more upside) BUT he is an on-ball point guard.  Not an off ball guy.  Franz/Barnes have looked really good.  ZW8 is probably a similar prospect to BOTH of those high level utility wings.  ZW8 might be the better fit though.  Can't imagine Ja/ZW having better chemistry.  They play very well off each other.  I like Cade ok.   I had him 4.  I like Mobley a lot.  I'm still on Jalen Green Island.  ... Jalen Johnson is someone I still have hope for.  Any of those rookies could win Rookie of the Week awards for the rest of the season.  In "redrafts" the order will probably change every year.

The Grizzlies worked out basically every player I liked.  We moved up to 10 which you have to give the FO credit for.  I guess we tried to move up again, but who knows.  The FO/talking heads/typing heads said ZW8 had a really good work out for us.  I think you have to make your decision based on that -- IN REAL TIME.  ... I still think he can be effective at the 2 a la Steve Smith.  Maybe some small ball 4 potential aka Robert Horry Lite.  As a rotational 3 he looks really, really good.

... not sure if Aldama is worth 2 picks or not.  Another "2 years away" guy.  I would like to see what he does the rest of the year/playoffs.  He looks fairly toolsy.  I wouldn't keep him over BC or even Adams.  IF we have a shot at a real upside guy/difference maker in the draft we should consider using Aldama to trade up.  If Aldama THE ASSET has more value than Aldama THE PLAYER then we should shop him.  ... I will base my opinion of Aldama more on what he does in summer league.  Maybe he is an asset we deploy to move up in the 2023 draft.  Although In a vacuum Aldama's theoretical value probably doesn't matter.  What matters MORE is IF he plays well with Jaren.  If he plays well with BC.  If Aldama looks like the 3rd big man of the/our future.

I didn't have ZW8 or Aldama on my board.  Although I DID have Yves Pons at 54 or 56.  Still holding out hope for Pons.  Looks like a classic 2 way contract guy.  I also still like Tyrell Terry.  3rd string point guard on 2 way deals is a solid MONEYBALL move.

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47 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Tillie is 6'10 with a 6'8 wingspan.  We do seem to be infatuated with skilled guys with T Rex arms. 

See the source image

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39 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

 

Wrong.  I was hating on ZW8 BEFORE the draft.  Metrics were meh.  Measurements were meh.  Not much of an IT factor.  ... Grizz moved up, said ZW8 had a great work out.  Not going to second guess the FO about that.  I wanted Giddey then some other guys (Trey Murphy III/Vrenz Bleijenbergh).  I was of the belief that the draft looked solid where we were: I also wanted to trade with the Knicks: loved all their picks (McBride/Grimes/Jericho Sims) but let's see what happens.  Whatever I wrote about ZW8 after the draft is what I said.  I mostly posted that he looks "2 years away".  More recently I thought he had Michael Cooper 2.0 upside (with shades of Mike Miller).  Essentially that's who he reminds me of.  ... didn't like Moses Moody.  Still don't.  Josh Giddey might have more flash (maybe even more upside) BUT he is an on-ball point guard.  Not an off ball guy.  Franz/Barnes have looked really good.  ZW8 is probably a similar prospect to BOTH of those high level utility wings.  ZW8 might be the better fit though.  Can't imagine Ja/ZW having better chemistry.  They play very well off each other.  I like Cade ok.   I had him 4.  I like Mobley a lot.  I'm still on Jalen Green Island.  ... Jalen Johnson is someone I still have hope for.  Any of those rookies could win Rookie of the Week awards for the rest of the season.  In "redrafts" the order will probably change every year.

The Grizzlies worked out basically every player I liked.  We moved up to 10 which you have to give the FO credit for.  I guess we tried to move up again, but who knows.  The FO/talking heads/typing heads said ZW8 had a really good work out for us.  I think you have to make your decision based on that -- IN REAL TIME.  ... I still think he can be effective at the 2 a la Steve Smith.  Maybe some small ball 4 potential aka Robert Horry Lite.  As a rotational 3 he looks really, really good.

... not sure if Aldama is worth 2 picks or not.  Another "2 years away" guy.  I would like to see what he does the rest of the year/playoffs.  He looks fairly toolsy.  I wouldn't keep him over BC or even Adams.  IF we have a shot at a real upside guy/difference maker in the draft we should consider using Aldama to trade up.  If Aldama THE ASSET has more value than Aldama THE PLAYER then we should shop him.  ... I will base my opinion of Aldama more on what he does in summer league.  Maybe he is an asset we deploy to move up in the 2023 draft.  Although In a vacuum Aldama's theoretical value probably doesn't matter.  What matters MORE is IF he plays well with Jaren.  If he plays well with BC.  If Aldama looks like the 3rd big man of the/our future.

I didn't have ZW8 or Aldama on my board.  Although I DID have Yves Pons at 54 or 56.  Still holding out hope for Pons.  Looks like a classic 2 way contract guy.  I also still like Tyrell Terry.  3rd string point guard on 2 way deals is a solid MONEYBALL move.

So, you were wrong before the draft not just after the draft. Good thing to know after all that time you wasted with all your different versions of your draft board. 

Everything else you wrote after the first line was jibberish meant to defend your inability to get draft right. Don't feel bad though. No one is able to get it right. You just wasted more time than most getting it wrong.

The facts are the guys who get paid to do the job have done it remarkably well despite everyone having different opinions. 

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2 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Everything else you wrote after the first line was jibberish meant to defend your inability to get draft right. 

Never said I would get EVERY pick right.  I would still stick to my top 4 from '21 (Green/Mobley/Giddey/Cade).

Then MOST everyone else does mock drafts.

I don't know of anyone else that does BIG BOARDS.  I also separated players by Tiers.  So, I tried to do lots of things at once.  I ALSO have advanced metrics that I try to work off of.  

I will compare my results to other BIG BOARDS (if there are any).  Mock Drafts and Big Boards aren't the same thing.  I also think that trying to "predict" what NBA teams will do isn't worth a whole lot (although maybe you can bet on it).  I just wanna know who the top players are, and try to predict them ahead of time.

ESPN doesn't do a big board.  Not really.  Neither does The Ringer.  Or, Tankathon.  NBA Draft Junkies doesn't do it.  NBA Draft Dot Net doesn't do a big board.  The Stepien MIGHT.  AHB Analytics did (I think) but I can't find their website.

I have advanced stats formulas that I like.  Haven't posted the formula and have never posted my metrics rankings BEFORE the draft... but the Grizzlies/Mavs have had drafts similar to my drafting methodology ie they get guys who my metrics favor OR they get guys that are positioned similarly to my Big Boards.  Both teams have also rostered Tyrell Terry (who I had at one in 2020).  I thought Tyrell Terry could be a Moneyball version of Trae Young.  Although Tyus Jones might be the IDEAL Moneyball point guard.  ... given our recent track record of point guards (drafting Ja/signing Tyus) I would give us the benefit of the doubt with regards to Tyrell Terry.

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12 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

 

ESPN doesn't do a big board.  Not really.  Neither does The Ringer.  Or, Tankathon.  NBA Draft Junkies doesn't do it.  NBA Draft Dot Net doesn't do a big board.  The Stepien MIGHT.  AHB Analytics did (I think) but I can't find their website.

I have advanced stats formulas that I like.  Haven't posted the formula and have never posted my metrics rankings BEFORE the draft... but the Grizzlies/Mavs have had drafts similar to my drafting methodology ie they get guys who my metrics favor OR they get guys that are positioned similarly to my Big Boards.  Both teams have also rostered Tyrell Terry (who I had at one in 2020).  I thought Tyrell Terry could be a Moneyball version of Trae Young.  Although Tyus Jones might be the IDEAL Moneyball point guard.  ... given our recent track record of point guards (drafting Ja/signing Tyus) I would give us the benefit of the doubt with regards to Tyrell Terry.

Not trying to get in the middle of a fight.

But, have to disagree Alt, my guess would be those places do Big Boards. E.g, here's Tankathon's current Big Board: 

https://tankathon.com/big_board

And here's The Ringer's Big Board by KOC from last year: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

I agree using tiers is the best way to evaluate prospects. 

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6 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

I have advanced stats formulas that I like.  Haven't posted the formula and have never posted my metrics rankings BEFORE the draft... but the Grizzlies/Mavs have had drafts similar to my drafting methodology ie they get guys who my metrics favor OR they get guys that are positioned similarly to my Big Boards.  Both teams have also rostered Tyrell Terry (who I had at one in 2020).  I thought Tyrell Terry could be a Moneyball version of Trae Young.  Although Tyus Jones might be the IDEAL Moneyball point guard.  ... given our recent track record of point guards (drafting Ja/signing Tyus) I would give us the benefit of the doubt with regards to Tyrell Terry.

Should we have hopes for Tyrell? He is an interesting case as he clearly possess some really good offensive skills. Can he be quick enough to create a separation in the NBA is a primary Q on my end. 

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21 minutes ago, russian grizzly said:

Should we have hopes for Tyrell? He is an interesting case as he clearly possess some really good offensive skills. Can he be quick enough to create a separation in the NBA is a primary Q on my end. 

He looks slow as heck doesn't he?  Still needs to fill out a bit.  Although he seems cerebral, looked like a low-maintenance type.  Good mix of shooting/scoring and playmaking/passing.  No frills type.  IF he ain't the guy, I would still look for a player in that mold.  Maybe with a bit more size though.  If Tyrell Terry ain't Tyus Jones/Seth Curry Lite that should still be an archetype we look for.  Especially outside the lottery or with a second round flyer.  If not this draft, then future drafts.

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1 hour ago, russian grizzly said:

Should we have hopes for Tyrell? He is an interesting case as he clearly possess some really good offensive skills. Can he be quick enough to create a separation in the NBA is a primary Q on my end. 

Making a 3/4 court shot with time left on the clock is a very good skill to have.  

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41 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

He looks slow as heck doesn't he?  Still needs to fill out a bit.  Although he seems cerebral, looked like a low-maintenance type.  Good mix of shooting/scoring and playmaking/passing.  No frills type.  IF he ain't the guy, I would still look for a player in that mold.  Maybe with a bit more size though.  If Tyrell Terry ain't Tyus Jones/Seth Curry Lite that should still be an archetype we look for.  Especially outside the lottery or with a second round flyer.  If not this draft, then future drafts.

My hope is that he might be able to learn how to use physicality for the purpose of controlling separation from a defender. DB is a master of that skill. 

Yes, we should draft a comboguard. 

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doncic2.jpg?quality=90&strip=all

2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Bol Bol isn't in NBA shape to play. Detroit said thanks but no thanks. 

Luka Doncic is certainly not in shape and nobody seems to mention it.

If he ever gets in correct NBA shape, he could be the next Larry Bird but the clock is ticking.

At the age of 22 or 23, at 6-foot-7 or 6-foot-8, he shouldn't be carrying any extra pounds. Wik says 230...he's 270 if he's an ounce.  Bol Bol had a broken foot that teams are scared of.

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7 minutes ago, bhoyal said:

doncic2.jpg?quality=90&strip=all

Luka Doncic is certainly not in shape and nobody seems to mention it.

If he ever gets in correct NBA shape, he could be the next Larry Bird but the clock is ticking.

At the age of 22 or 23, at 6-foot-7 or 6-foot-8, he shouldn't be carrying any extra pounds. Wik says 230...he's 270 if he's an ounce.  Bol Bol had a broken foot that teams are scared of.

People are mentioning it. It's amazing how quickly the diet gets too rich when you sign a $200 million contract. 

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I don't want to tell Mark Cuban how to run his business, but he needs to lay down the law to Luka about his weight.

Yeah, I'm built like Luka anymore... at 2.7 times his age.  Not at 22, I wasn't.  What's Luka going to weigh when he gets old???

The notoriously skinny Reggie Miller is the only one I can think of calling Luka out about this.

 

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3 minutes ago, bhoyal said:

I don't want to tell Mark Cuban how to run his business, but he needs to lay down the law to Luka about his weight.

Yeah, I'm built like Luka anymore... at 2.7 times his age.  Not at 22, I wasn't.  What's Luka going to weigh when he gets old???

Maybe he's transitioning to power forward

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Just now, ThaGhostOfThaBeet said:

Maybe he's transitioning to power forward

Maybe he should be in that commercial with Paul Pierce telling that guy to stop by for BBQ.  

And bring the kids.

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26 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

People are mentioning it. It's amazing how quickly the diet gets too rich when you sign a $200 million contract. 

He used to eat well in Spain. I don’t blame him, I also gained 40lbs when I moved to the States. I... um... keep them as a token of remembrance.

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7 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

Knicks got Reddish for Knox and a pick. Couldn’t we done better? Also they got Solo.

Solo tore his hamstring and is done for the season, if not worse.

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31 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

Knicks got Reddish for Knox and a pick. Couldn’t we done better? Also they got Solo.

Maybe, just maybe(!) the FO didn’t want him..?!??!? 😳

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36 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

Knicks got Reddish for Knox and a pick. Couldn’t we done better? Also they got Solo.

I was thinking yesterday that was likely to happen (I know....hindsight is a wonderful thing!)

I was also looking at Culver Knox trade, and it was proposed Culver+pick for Reddish but really, what is the point, its just meaningless tinkering

Reddish is due for an extension next season. 

We got other money priorities (e.g. Tyus, Ja, Dillon, Des, ?Kyle?)

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58 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

Knicks got Reddish for Knox and a pick. Couldn’t we done better? Also they got Solo.

Redish isn't good. That's why Hawks were trying to trade him. They have salary issues but they're basically flipping him for a mid first round pick. He's whatever.

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