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chipc3

Minnesota Timberwolves @ Memphis Grizzlies - 11/8/21

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1 minute ago, Ace-is-high said:

Jaren Is really starting to impose his will in the paint, Taylor sure to start SloMo though... But Clarke is definitely in the mix now for sure

If BC was still sucking then i would say start SloMo too.   BUT  SloMo is a better pairing with either Tillman or Adams than he is with Jaren.   BC is perfect compliment to Jaren because he is a paint scorer that doesn't clog the paint.    Teams have to keep a body on him to stop him from rolling to the rim.     Then he isn't in the way whenever Jaren wants to go inside too.   

 Plus in starting lineup BC doesn't need to shoot 3s whereas lack of shooters on second unit forces him to.   He can play the Adams role on offense which is to just keep the ball moving and be a finisher. 

Small sample size but 2 man lineup data has 

Jaren + BC as a  + 54!!

Jaren + Kyle is a +1.6  

Jaren + Adams is a +1.2

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612763/lineups-advanced/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&GroupQuantity=2&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*Jackson&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1

I thought the entire point of collecting all this lineup data last few seasons was to figure out which guys complimented Ja and Jaren the best.    Its pretty clear that Melt and Bane do when looking at the stats but so does Brandon. 

 

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1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

If BC was still sucking then i would say start SloMo too.   BUT  SloMo is a better pairing with either Tillman or Adams than he is with Jaren.   BC is perfect compliment to Jaren because he is a paint scorer that doesn't clog the paint.    Teams have to keep a body on him to stop him from rolling to the rim.     Then he isn't in the way whenever Jaren wants to go inside too.   

 Plus in starting lineup BC doesn't need to shoot 3s whereas lack of shooters on second unit forces him to.   He can play the Adams role on offense which is to just keep the ball moving and be a finisher. 

Small sample size but 2 man lineup data has 

Jaren + BC as a  + 54!!

Jaren + Kyle is a +1.6  

Jaren + Adams is a +1.2

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612763/lineups-advanced/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&GroupQuantity=2&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*Jackson&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1

I thought the entire point of collecting all this lineup data last few seasons was to figure out which guys complimented Ja and Jaren the best.    Its pretty clear that Melt and Bane do when looking at the stats but so does Brandon. 

 

Listening to Clarke post game interview, he mentioned he's a natural fit with Jaren

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6 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

Bane was PF.  So Jenkins tried something.  It wasn't for an extended length of time.  Quit nit picking.

Dude we almost loss the game and got blown out on Friday.   When exactly do you think we should be critiquing the team???  Stop worrying about giving everyone participation ribbons.    Jenkins has rolled out a 4 guard lineup in over half the games and we just hit 10 games.     

We are 30th ranked defense do you think playing 4 dudes under 6'5' with short arms helps that!?!?!?!

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3 minutes ago, Ace-is-high said:

Listening to Clarke post game interview, he mentioned he's a natural fit with Jaren

haha too funny.   But it aint rocket science we literally saw him paired with Jaren his rookie year and explode.   Then oddly enough in his sophomore year he struggled when Jaren was injured.    

Now Jaren is back and BC is looking more like his old.  I guess that just a bunch of strange coincidences. 

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1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

haha too funny.   But it aint rocket science we literally saw him paired with Jaren his rookie year and explode.   Then oddly enough in his sophomore year he struggled when Jaren was injured.    

Now Jaren is back and BC is looking more like his old.  I guess that just a bunch of strange coincidences. 

Yeah, just get Jaren at starting center and it will work itself out

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1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Dude we almost loss the game and got blown out on Friday.   When exactly do you think we should be critiquing the team???  Stop worrying about giving everyone participation ribbons.    Jenkins has rolled out a 4 guard lineup in over half the games and we just hit 10 games.     

We are 30th ranked defense do you think playing 4 dudes under 6'5' with short arms helps that!?!?!?!

Stick the "participation ribbons" in your hat!  He made coaching decisions you didn't like, but we won anyway.  So what?  Quit thinking you're smarter than NBA coaches.

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10 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

If BC was still sucking then i would say start SloMo too.   BUT  SloMo is a better pairing with either Tillman or Adams than he is with Jaren.   BC is perfect compliment to Jaren because he is a paint scorer that doesn't clog the paint.    Teams have to keep a body on him to stop him from rolling to the rim.     Then he isn't in the way whenever Jaren wants to go inside too.   

 Plus in starting lineup BC doesn't need to shoot 3s whereas lack of shooters on second unit forces him to.   He can play the Adams role on offense which is to just keep the ball moving and be a finisher. 

Small sample size but 2 man lineup data has 

Jaren + BC as a  + 54!!

Jaren + Kyle is a +1.6  

Jaren + Adams is a +1.2

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612763/lineups-advanced/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&GroupQuantity=2&CF=GROUP_NAME*E*Jackson&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1

I thought the entire point of collecting all this lineup data last few seasons was to figure out which guys complimented Ja and Jaren the best.    Its pretty clear that Melt and Bane do when looking at the stats but so does Brandon. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Ace-is-high said:

Listening to Clarke post game interview, he mentioned he's a natural fit with Jaren

The advanced stats from the previous years show this repeatedly, but for whatever reason Jenkins relegated him to the end of the bench, from about 10 games before the play in games and on.

Unless evidence develops otherwise, I am gonna believe the reason is that Jenkins doesn't see him as a 3 pt shooter, and wants the floor filled with 3 pt shooters, even if they are chucking, and that 3 pt shooting/chucking is gonna make up the main proportion of our offense.

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4 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

 

The advanced stats from the previous years show this repeatedly, but for whatever reason Jenkins relegated him to the end of the bench, from about 10 games before the play in games and on.

Unless evidence develops otherwise, I am gonna believe the reason is that Jenkins doesn't see him as a 3 pt shooter, and wants the floor filled with 3 pt shooters, even if they are chucking, and that 3 pt shooting/chucking is gonna make up the main proportion of our offense.

But crazy thing is that the adv stats also say Tyus + Ja is horrendous but he keeps forcing it.  I don't think Taylor relies on stats as much as they say.   

However,  I think you are right but its hypocritical cuz Adams doesn't shoot 3s at all.  

Ja bane Dillon BC Jaren could be a devastating lineup against most teams. 

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58 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

I hope BC is back to form. Also, I hope they send ZW down to the Hustle for an extended stay. Once DB comes back, won't be many minutes for ZW and hopefully we can find minutes for BC.

Agreed.

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1 hour ago, smit-tay griz said:

You and @GrizzTigerFan always worried about Konchar.  He was fine.  Six points and three boards off the bench in only 12 minutes.  You guys focus on the wrong things.

I think what Ja_Rule is saying is that the Grizzlies' best 10 players should play when healthy. Konchar and ZW are not the Grizzlies' 10 best players.

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Do you think its the scheme?  Crazy that he is basically defending the same way JV did. 

Yeah we play a drop coverage which I am not a fan of. Although both Adams and JV are not exactly fleet of foot so it's either drop or a zone since they can't effectively switch or hedge and get back to their man.

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10 minutes ago, Thegoodguys said:

Yeah we play a drop coverage which I am not a fan of. Although both Adams and JV are not exactly fleet of foot so it's either drop or a zone since they can't effectively switch or hedge and get back to their man.

I suppose the solution to this would be to do what other people have been suggesting and play BC and JJJ as the bigs. JJJ can definitely hedge and switch. I like that idea. The nuggets switched from a drop to hard hedge scheme a few years back and made a huge jump in defensive efficiency. The twolves just made that change this year and their defense looks much improved so far.

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10 minutes ago, Thegoodguys said:

I suppose the solution to this would be to do what other people have been suggesting and play BC and JJJ as the bigs. JJJ can definitely hedge and switch. I like that idea. The nuggets switched from a drop to hard hedge scheme a few years back and made a huge jump in defensive efficiency. The twolves just made that change this year and their defense looks much improved so far.

Tell me more …

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1 hour ago, KGF said:

I think what Ja_Rule is saying is that the Grizzlies' best 10 players should play when healthy. Konchar and ZW are not the Grizzlies' 10 best players.

You also said that Brandon should get Ziaire's minutes.

Who should Brandon sub in for: Melton or Bane?

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3 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

But crazy thing is that the adv stats also say Tyus + Ja is horrendous but he keeps forcing it.  I don't think Taylor relies on stats as much as they say.   

However,  I think you are right but its hypocritical cuz Adams doesn't shoot 3s at all.  

Ja bane Dillon BC Jaren could be a devastating lineup against most teams. 

See, that's the thing that re-enforces my belief - Tyus shoots 3s, some nights shoots them quite well. With Jenkins, it ain't about advanced stats.

Jenkins is all about shooting 3s. Hence Brandon's DNP-CDs.

I doubt he is a deep analyst type guy, because otherwise our time-out plays and in-bound plays would be infinitely better than what they are and have been. As someone asked on this thread - when was the last time we scored from a designed inbounds play?

It's all about shooting 3s. Not denigrating Jaren, but how is he allowed to go 0-8 from 3 in a game, and that isn't nipped in the bud?

A: that's what Jenkins wants.

Its fine if we got 2 or more guys knocking them down, but when we don't, the result is the Portland and Washington games. 

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43 minutes ago, bterry1990 said:

Bane really needs to stop throwing the ball in. That is my only complaint this year for the squad

I agree and would like to add-> SloMo is our best inbounder … by far 

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8 hours ago, Thegoodguys said:

I suppose the solution to this would be to do what other people have been suggesting and play BC and JJJ as the bigs. JJJ can definitely hedge and switch. I like that idea. The nuggets switched from a drop to hard hedge scheme a few years back and made a huge jump in defensive efficiency. The twolves just made that change this year and their defense looks much improved so far.

Great observation and totally agree. 

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6 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

See, that's the thing that re-enforces my belief - Tyus shoots 3s, some nights shoots them quite well. With Jenkins, it ain't about advanced stats.

Jenkins is all about shooting 3s. Hence Brandon's DNP-CDs.

I doubt he is a deep analyst type guy, because otherwise our time-out plays and in-bound plays would be infinitely better than what they are and have been. As someone asked on this thread - when was the last time we scored from a designed inbounds play?

It's all about shooting 3s. Not denigrating Jaren, but how is he allowed to go 0-8 from 3 in a game, and that isn't nipped in the bud?

A: that's what Jenkins wants.

Its fine if we got 2 or more guys knocking them down, but when we don't, the result is the Portland and Washington games. 

Yep that is the only thing that makes sense.  Dude overvalues 3pt shot to a fault.   But when you go cold from 3 then its harder to get back on defense when the other team gets the rebound.  Especially in our scheme hence why we are dodo on defense.    

JV's presence FORCED Taylor to have to mix up the attack and his buckets enabled us to setup our defense and be more effective overall.   Tonight when they werent just chucking every possession the defense looked much better.  It also dramatically improved whenever Tillman or Jaren played the 5 too.   Once again Jaren scored majority of his points when playin the 5 too.   Reality is he is more of a mismatch at the 5 than 4.   Time to rip off the band-aid!

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9 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

haha too funny.   But it aint rocket science we literally saw him paired with Jaren his rookie year and explode.   Then oddly enough in his sophomore year he struggled when Jaren was injured.    

Now Jaren is back and BC is looking more like his old.  I guess that just a bunch of strange coincidences. 

Way to rewrite history. Correlation doesn't equal causation GTF. Last season Clarke was injured as well as Jaren. He started the season strong but faded when the nagging injuries took their toll. He lost his role in the lineup because the team couldn't count on him from one game to the next. 

Having said that it is great to see BC have a huge impact when the team needed someone to stand up. I truly believe he made the difference in OT. 

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4 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Way to rewrite history. Correlation doesn't equal causation GTF. Last season Clarke was injured as well as Jaren. He started the season strong but faded when the nagging injuries took their toll. He lost his role in the lineup because the team couldn't count on him from one game to the next. 

Having said that it is great to see BC have a huge impact when the team needed someone to stand up. I truly believe he made the difference in OT. 

Grayson was injured off and on just as much as Brandon but never lost his spot.  Grayson was also inconsistent as hades and still never lost his spot.    Clarke wasn't injured at Jaren's level.   He was getting majority of his DNP's when he was healthy.   

Problem is that Clarke isn't versatile enough offensively for Taylor's liking.    Neither was Jonas.  TJ wants everyone to launch 3s and Clarkes shot got broken last season.    So far this season (like his rookie season) he isn't relying on it as much as he did last season.    

Regardless, Brandon stated he is a perfect fit next to Jaren and their lineup data over his 3 seasons backs that statement up.  Why don't you tweet him and tell him that "Correlation doesn't equal Causation".  LOL

But uhmm this is sports correlation and causation is a big part of it.    Pretty much in all of our wins Ja has avg 30+ppg.  Is that correlation and causation too??

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1 minute ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Grayson was injured off and on just as much as Brandon but never lost his spot.  Grayson was also inconsistent as hades and still never lost his spot.    Clarke wasn't injured at Jaren's level.   He was getting majority of his DNP's when he was healthy.   

Problem is that Clarke isn't versatile enough offensively for Taylor's liking.    Neither was Jonas.  TJ wants everyone to launch 3s and Clarkes shot got broken last season.    So far this season (like his rookie season) he isn't relying on it as much as he did last season.    

Regardless, Brandon stated he is a perfect fit next to Jaren and their lineup data over his 3 seasons backs that statement up.  Why don't you tweet him and tell him that "Correlation doesn't equal Causation".  LOL

But uhmm this is sports correlation and causation is a big part of it.    Pretty much in all of our wins Ja has avg 30+ppg.  Is that correlation and causation too??

Grayson Allen's playing time I am not discussing. I have no idea what Jenkins saw in that matter. Clarke was injured last season and that along with his return of a broken shot had as much as Jaren being absent. That was my one and only point I tried to make. Keep to the topic. I'm glad BC feels he is a perfect fit next to Jaren. I hope they become the greatest big man combo in NBA history. That doesn't change the fact that BC's decline last season had very little to do with Jaren's absence and a lot to do with Clarke's poor and inconsistent play due to his shooting motion and his injuries. 

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1 minute ago, chipc3 said:

Grayson Allen's playing time I am not discussing. I have no idea what Jenkins saw in that matter. Clarke was injured last season and that along with his return of a broken shot had as much as Jaren being absent. That was my one and only point I tried to make. Keep to the topic. I'm glad BC feels he is a perfect fit next to Jaren. I hope they become the greatest big man combo in NBA history. That doesn't change the fact that BC's decline last season had very little to do with Jaren's absence and a lot to do with Clarke's poor and inconsistent play due to his shooting motion and his injuries. 

This is true Clarke deserves some blame for the poor play and awful shot motion.

However you don't  need to be a rocket scientist to see that Clarke plays way better with a screcht 5 or 4  and Jaren is basically one of the best when it comes to spacing the floor.

Something we never really got last year at all.

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