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GOOD LUCK ZW!!!! Alt Grind's deep thoughts

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Let's see what Ziaire Williams can do.

Regular season was bumpy but he had one really good game.  Lots of picks this year barely had that.

Supposedly he had good workouts -- and workouts at this stage are all that matters. Everything before that is Ancient History 101.

I didn't have ZW on my board but it happens....  I bet a FEW really good players will emerge from this draft that weren't on my board....

Looking forward, I like ZW better than Emoni Bates for whatever that is worth.  ZW is a Moneyball version of that.  

Who won the draft???  I like what the Hawks did.  They took Jalen Johnson who I had at 16.  Comp for him is Snowflake LeBron.  They also took Sharife Cooper in the second round and I had him at 8.  My comp for Sharife was Isiah Lite.  Although last week I had Sharife at 4 and JJ at 5 just behind Green/Mobley/Giddey.

Green looks good -- like ABA David Thompson Lite.  For Mobley's comp what about Deluxe Divac?  Those two guys were my ONLY Tier 1.5 prospects (NO Tier 1 guys). 

Giddey/Cade comprised the entirety of Tier 2.5.  Giddey: Vanilla Magic vibes.  Cade is a guy who resembles second year Sylvester "Deuce" Ford (on a per 40 minute basis).  Or, Dennis Scott's career high for a college season in points, his career high for a season in assists, and a career high season for rebounds (although, oddly, they came in a different season in each of his 3 college years).  Cade is basically a hybrid of Deluxe Dillon Brooks/Kyle Anderson -- probably a top 5 pick in most drafts.

Not sure if there is a GREAT Ziaire Williams comp but some of his stuff reminds me of Mike Miller or Scottie Pippen or Penny Hardaway or Reggie Miller.  But... like LITE versions.  So... basically MILLER LITE (Reggie and Mike)... so... what is that?  Grant Hill Lite?  He could be the Moneyball Grant Hill of this draft.  

I didn't even have ZW on my Mother Of All Big Boards -- but hey guess ANY team should take a flyer on a Grant Hill Lite upside projection.

Not even sure that this wasn't the Most Over-Hyped Draft of All Time.  

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Hoping for the BEST so far our Front Office has done a Great Job . relax and enjoy the Ride 

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I've had time to mull over this pick and I realize why people are instinctively frightened by it.

This is a Mike Wallace special.

Great hype out of high school but didn't quite live up to it in college, so he gets undervalued. And on top of that, we took him higher than we needed to.

The Ziaire Williams pick has "old Grizzlies draft strategy" written all over it. And we all know how well that strategy paid off for us.

Now, as a player, ZW may turn into something for us. with his height, frame and skills, he might turn into something perfect for us at the 3. And if he pans out, that makes for a veeeery interesting starting five going forward. 

If we had drafted him at 17 I think there'd be far less griping about it. But still confusion.

Somebody said it in another thread - our FO's strategy appears to be mostly draft-driven, so flipping assets to get picks is job #1. And I can get on board with that strategy. They have made some great picks, and not just the obvious ones. Bane has been great, but Tillman - well, Tillman is the only reason I'm not screaming at the FO about moving on from JV. Tillman shows every minute he's on the floor he is headed for a long and productive NBA career.

Last year, we were told by the FO they have a "type" they like to draft. From that perspective, I can kind of see why ZW would be a player that would intrigue them. 

If that 30th pick pans out, I'll gladly eat crow, but I'm here to tell you that kid is unlikely to ever see the floor in a Grizzlies uniform. That's not a swing for the fences - that's a swing and a whiff.

Maybe when your strategy is gathering draft picks like they are growing on trees you can afford to do that. Seems like a waste to me. I really think we should've picked up that Baylor kid, especially since it's likely we're saying goodbye to Tyus soon. Which we could've gotten had we held onto that 40th pick.....grrrrrrrr......

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The kid is 19 years old.  He may not even be finished growing yet.  

I don't think the "G" or a 2-way is a good idea for him right now.  Too much injury risk until he gets bigger and stronger.  Let him sit at the end of the bench with the big team and learn from slo-mo who is also 6-9 and was skinny at the age of 19.  Kyle will be a good mentor.  Both Pac-12 guys and all.  We're pretty set on wing players and don't need him to be a finished product for a few years. 

I don't agree that Aldama is a wasted pick.  A project but not hopeless. (Comparison: Luke Kornet)

 

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I think the issue is that we just didn't need more slightly above average players.  We have too many.  So what this team needs is consolidation trades.  Since they weren't able to pull that off they just panicked and picked projects.

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38 minutes ago, Jetfixer said:

I don’t think the FO see’s him as slightly above average 

 

1 minute ago, Gradey said:

ZW is not a pick made for slightly average, its a swing for the fence at a 6'10" playmaker.

That is what I am saying.  ZW is a high ceiling, low floor pick.  They think he might develop into something great.  I think the odds are higher that he develops into a below average player.  He certainly will be one years one and two.   I think rather than make that gamble I would have tried harder to make a consolidation trade or draft a tradeable player.

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37 minutes ago, Jetfixer said:

I don’t think the FO see’s him as slightly above average 

Maybe not but a lot of guys selected with the 10th pick over the past few years are not necessarily well above average and they have definitely not been stars. The farther down you go in the draft, the more of a crapshoot it is. I posted a list of the last 12 #10 picks and it's really not that impressive. Each draft has it's own range but typically, you have very very few drafts with real superstars. Each draft may have some stars but those are like your top 3-5 picks, if that. After that, you'd be lucky to get longtime starters or rotation players. It's a crapshoot. 

I know everyone likes to think that being a top 10 pick or a lottery pick means something but quite honestly, it's all marketing. It's a way for the NBA to drum up viewers and make fans think they are getting a special player. When the reality is, everyone makes mistakes including front offices, front offices pick based on their evaluations (which are flawed and imperfect) and once a player is selected, it's on that player to elevate his game. If you look 5 years down the road and do a re-draft, it rarely follows form of the actual draft. It's an inexact science. I heard yesterday that on average about 20 players (out of 60) selected in a draft "stick around". It's definitely not the top 20 picks, it's scattered all over the place.

I say all of this to say that this pick and Williams are unknowns at this moment. We won't really know until 5 years down the road. I mean, JJJ has been here 3 years, do we really know what we have? Williams had his struggles in college with poor shooting and bad shot selection but there may have been reasons for that.  I support the kid and hope it works out. 

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If he josh jackson with a better head on his shoulders , that aint bad imho . Maybe they saw a little bit of jackson in him .

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20 minutes ago, kevofrommempho said:

 

That is what I am saying.  ZW is a high ceiling, low floor pick.  They think he might develop into something great.  I think the odds are higher that he develops into a below average player.  He certainly will be one years one and two.   I think rather than make that gamble I would have tried harder to make a consolidation trade or draft a tradeable player.

Ok yeah I hear ya.  After sleeping on it, I THINK I'm good with the ZW pick.  I would have gone other ways but this is a fact....the folks who took him know a whole hell of a lot more about him than I do.   So far I have been a fan of the FO's moves and that makes me a bit more comfortable just seeing how it plays out.

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1 hour ago, bhoyal said:

The kid is 19 years old.  He may not even be finished growing yet.  

I don't think the "G" or a 2-way is a good idea for him right now.  Too much injury risk until he gets bigger and stronger.  Let him sit at the end of the bench with the big team and learn from slo-mo who is also 6-9 and was skinny at the age of 19.  Kyle will be a good mentor.  Both Pac-12 guys and all.  We're pretty set on wing players and don't need him to be a finished product for a few years. 

I don't agree that Aldama is a wasted pick.  A project but not hopeless. (Comparison: Luke Kornet)

Just quick note, Santi played in the Loyola that's in Maryland, so he's actually a Patriot league guy. Big part of the question marks around him; if he'd put the numbers he did last year in the Pac-12, I'm sure he would've been a lottery pick.

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2 minutes ago, ACGrizz said:

Just quick note, Santi played in the Loyola that's in Maryland, so he's actually a Patriot league guy. Big part of the question marks around him; if he'd put the numbers he did last year in the Pac-12, I'm sure he would've been a lottery pick.

I think bhoyal was talking about Ziaire first and the switched to the guy who wants to live in Spain. 

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I’ve got a scary comp for ZW. It’s not perfect but their TO/assist #s in college are similar, they are both shot creators who teams hope develop, the difference is this guy was much more efficient scorer in college, which is SCARY….a taller Kevin Knox

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53 minutes ago, The J Crew said:

I think bhoyal was talking about Ziaire first and the switched to the guy who wants to live in Spain. 

I'm an idiot - sorry bhoyal.

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43 minutes ago, BAMAFREAK said:

I’ve got a scary comp for ZW. It’s not perfect but their TO/assist #s in college are similar, they are both shot creators who teams hope develop, the difference is this guy was much more efficient scorer in college, which is SCARY….a taller Kevin Knox

There's some hope based on his free throw shooting (79.6%), but I can't find many examples of folks that shot so poorly from the field who became good shooters in the NBA. Happy for someone to give me some examples though.

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Honestly after watching him some last night and this morning...I like his balance and his feet.  His shot is very smooth. Rises up well with it and has a good release point.  If he puts in the work (and all indications are he will) then I am not so worried about his shot.  And if he knocks down shots...he is going to be a fun player to watch.

If it works out...pairing him with the JJJJJJJs will be hella fun.

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On 7/30/2021 at 11:09 AM, GrizzTigerFan said:

So now we have an X (xavier) Y(Yves) and a Z(Ziaire)!    okay i'll see myself out now. 

😂

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On 7/30/2021 at 8:50 AM, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Maybe not but a lot of guys selected with the 10th pick over the past few years are not necessarily well above average and they have definitely not been stars. The farther down you go in the draft, the more of a crapshoot it is. I posted a list of the last 12 #10 picks and it's really not that impressive. Each draft has it's own range but typically, you have very very few drafts with real superstars. Each draft may have some stars but those are like your top 3-5 picks, if that. After that, you'd be lucky to get longtime starters or rotation players. It's a crapshoot. 

I know everyone likes to think that being a top 10 pick or a lottery pick means something but quite honestly, it's all marketing. It's a way for the NBA to drum up viewers and make fans think they are getting a special player. When the reality is, everyone makes mistakes including front offices, front offices pick based on their evaluations (which are flawed and imperfect) and once a player is selected, it's on that player to elevate his game. If you look 5 years down the road and do a re-draft, it rarely follows form of the actual draft. It's an inexact science. I heard yesterday that on average about 20 players (out of 60) selected in a draft "stick around". It's definitely not the top 20 picks, it's scattered all over the place.

I say all of this to say that this pick and Williams are unknowns at this moment. We won't really know until 5 years down the road. I mean, JJJ has been here 3 years, do we really know what we have? Williams had his struggles in college with poor shooting and bad shot selection but there may have been reasons for that.  I support the kid and hope it works out. 

I guarantee that the are more all stars and hall of famers picked in the top ten than 20-60 

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On 7/30/2021 at 7:51 AM, kevofrommempho said:

I think the issue is that we just didn't need more slightly above average players.  We have too many.  So what this team needs is consolidation trades.  Since they weren't able to pull that off they just panicked and picked projects.

This isn’t the type of FO that panics. It’s interesting that y’all don’t trust this FO yet

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On 7/30/2021 at 8:50 AM, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Maybe not but a lot of guys selected with the 10th pick over the past few years are not necessarily well above average and they have definitely not been stars. The farther down you go in the draft, the more of a crapshoot it is. I posted a list of the last 12 #10 picks and it's really not that impressive. Each draft has it's own range but typically, you have very very few drafts with real superstars. Each draft may have some stars but those are like your top 3-5 picks, if that. After that, you'd be lucky to get longtime starters or rotation players. It's a crapshoot. 

I know everyone likes to think that being a top 10 pick or a lottery pick means something but quite honestly, it's all marketing. It's a way for the NBA to drum up viewers and make fans think they are getting a special player. When the reality is, everyone makes mistakes including front offices, front offices pick based on their evaluations (which are flawed and imperfect) and once a player is selected, it's on that player to elevate his game. If you look 5 years down the road and do a re-draft, it rarely follows form of the actual draft. It's an inexact science. I heard yesterday that on average about 20 players (out of 60) selected in a draft "stick around". It's definitely not the top 20 picks, it's scattered all over the place.

I say all of this to say that this pick and Williams are unknowns at this moment. We won't really know until 5 years down the road. I mean, JJJ has been here 3 years, do we really know what we have? Williams had his struggles in college with poor shooting and bad shot selection but there may have been reasons for that.  I support the kid and hope it works out. 

I agree with you but I doubt that the front office made this pick to get a average or above average player. If that was the case they could've stayed at 17. 

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On 7/30/2021 at 6:45 AM, The Truth is OUT said:

I've had time to mull over this pick and I realize why people are instinctively frightened by it.

This is a Mike Wallace special.

Great hype out of high school but didn't quite live up to it in college, so he gets undervalued. And on top of that, we took him higher than we needed to.

The Ziaire Williams pick has "old Grizzlies draft strategy" written all over it. And we all know how well that strategy paid off for us.

Now, as a player, ZW may turn into something for us. with his height, frame and skills, he might turn into something perfect for us at the 3. And if he pans out, that makes for a veeeery interesting starting five going forward. 

If we had drafted him at 17 I think there'd be far less griping about it. But still confusion.

Somebody said it in another thread - our FO's strategy appears to be mostly draft-driven, so flipping assets to get picks is job #1. And I can get on board with that strategy. They have made some great picks, and not just the obvious ones. Bane has been great, but Tillman - well, Tillman is the only reason I'm not screaming at the FO about moving on from JV. Tillman shows every minute he's on the floor he is headed for a long and productive NBA career.

Last year, we were told by the FO they have a "type" they like to draft. From that perspective, I can kind of see why ZW would be a player that would intrigue them. 

If that 30th pick pans out, I'll gladly eat crow, but I'm here to tell you that kid is unlikely to ever see the floor in a Grizzlies uniform. That's not a swing for the fences - that's a swing and a whiff.

Maybe when your strategy is gathering draft picks like they are growing on trees you can afford to do that. Seems like a waste to me. I really think we should've picked up that Baylor kid, especially since it's likely we're saying goodbye to Tyus soon. Which we could've gotten had we held onto that 40th pick.....grrrrrrrr......

The 60 Minutes guy, or the Grind City Media guy? :lol:

Good to see you checkin' in.  Is this just a cameo appearance, or are you gonna be a regular?

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On 7/30/2021 at 12:09 PM, GrizzTigerFan said:

So now we have an X (xavier) Y(Yves) and a Z(Ziaire)!    okay i'll see myself out now. 

That with all of our 'J' guys... we definitely have the ALL NBA Scrabble Team

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I wasnt a fan of the pick. I still really am not a fan of the pick. I feel like we still had too much on the board but I will support it and hope for the best. I am more curious about Aldama. I dont think he was a wasted pick but I am also a little nervous we swung for the fences and we might miss. 

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