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New Official 2022 Grind City Draft Thread & Lottery Picks Watch!

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34 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

After seeing what happened to Adams and other Bigs in the playoffs - why is anyone looking at Kessler types in first round? IMHO only type of traditional 5s we should think of drafting to pair with Jaren are the Freak of Nature types like Duren.   I just don't want to waste a 1rst rd pick on a stiff. 

Oh no. I agree 100% on avoiding Kessler. I actually have no interest in Duren either. The only way I take a center is if he can set monster picks, rebound and hit the three. IF they don’t have all of those skills I would rather run out a fast, mobile big to run and defend the perimeter. The days of the dump down to the 7 foot center are over. In today’s NBA you have to be fast, spread the court and rebound at the center. 

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23 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Oh no. I agree 100% on avoiding Kessler. I actually have no interest in Duren either. The only way I take a center is if he can set monster picks, rebound and hit the three. IF they don’t have all of those skills I would rather run out a fast, mobile big to run and defend the perimeter. The days of the dump down to the 7 foot center are over. In today’s NBA you have to be fast, spread the court and rebound at the center. 

Agreed.   :blink:

I like Duren as a Freak of Nature development project but i don't want them to pursue him.    I think Penny did a poor job of developing him so i can easily see him becoming a beast in the pros.     I would love Adams to mentor him.      

Otherwise we already have the modern 5 in Jaren so all we really need to do is draft the perfect PF that can cover for his weaknesses.  

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Agreed.   :blink:

I like Duren as a Freak of Nature development project but i don't want them to pursue him.    I think Penny did a poor job of developing him so i can easily see him becoming a beast in the pros.     I would love Adams to mentor him.      

Otherwise we already have the modern 5 in Jaren so all we really need to do is draft the perfect PF that can cover for his weaknesses.  

Totally agree about Duren and the way Penny used him… same thing happened with Precious.

Wiseman wasn’t ready either but that didn’t stop the pros from snagging him.

I am shocked that only a few posters (1 or 2 ) , have Duren inside the top 10.

I am starting to think there may be something in that Bay Area water…

Poole and Wiggins have stepped up big all year for the dubs…

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3 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Oh no. I agree 100% on avoiding Kessler. I actually have no interest in Duren either. The only way I take a center is if he can set monster picks, rebound and hit the three. IF they don’t have all of those skills I would rather run out a fast, mobile big to run and defend the perimeter. The days of the dump down to the 7 foot center are over. In today’s NBA you have to be fast, spread the court and rebound at the center. 

I am almost over the Chet hype too.  Looks a bit slow.  Worse, fairly unexplosive -- and he's a good shooter not a GREAT one.  Then, his shooting really tailed off at the end of the season.  And, his fouls soared.

I might just take the best" leftover" big man at 47.  Koloko probably won't be there, but is he worth a pick at 22?  Not sure.  AND, he is probably my favorite big man in this draft.  If he's not there then roll the dice on Ibou Badji or Ismael Kamagate or Khalifa Diop or Yannick Nzosa.  Those guys are coin flips.  BUT, at 47 relatively cheap.

... Leonard Miller is going to the G League.  

John Butler is a boom/bust prospect, but I think he is worth a shot maybe even in that 22-29ish range.  All he needs really is that Chet Hype Machine.

With the other picks, I want BOTH of Dalen Terry/MarJon Beauchamp.  Nikola Jovic is up there -- but did we work him out?  His teammate Karlo Matkovich is staying in the draft.  He looks really solid.  I will probably move him up ridiculously high on my boards.  The more I watch the locals play, the more I like the IMPORTS.

... at some point the REAL LIFE NBA Draft will resemble your average fantasy football draft, where, essentially you have THREE positions (other than kicker); those being Quarterback, Flex, and Defense/Special Teams.  DEF/ST are your bigs now.  QB is Point Guard, duh.  It MIGHT NOT be a QB league, BUT I think BACKUP POINT GUARD is the NEW 6th man -- just something that REALLY matters.  FLEX position is 2-4... or maybe just wings aka non-bigs OR bigs tha can also play some stretch wing.  

Don't take Defense/Special Teams early.  And, don't take glorified DAD BIGS early either.

 

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I've seen this guy mentioned in a couple of drafts as a late round pick, possibly for Grizz at 29.Never heard of him. Out of Paris

Quote

Ismael Kamagate (Paris Basketball, C, 2001)

Kamagate would give the Grizzlies a different look at center with his hops and reach for finishing high above the rim. However, he's getting first-round looks due to the flashes of skill and shot-making that suggest he can offer more than just easy baskets and dunks.

 

Quote

About Ismael Kamagate

Ismael Kamagate is a long, athletic big man on an interesting trajectory over the last several seasons in France.  He emerged as a prospect to monitor due to his rare tools after averaging 3 points, 4 rebounds, and 1.2 blocks over 12.5 minutes per game for France at the 2019 FIBA U18 European Championship in his international debut.  Moving from the Centre Federal de Basket-Ball to Paris Basketball in the middle of the subsequent season, Kamagate played a minor role for the club in the French 2nd Division.  Seeing his playing time expand dramatically the following year, he averaged 9.6 points and 6.8 rebounds over 24 minutes per game as Paris was promoted out of Pro B. 

Showing how far he’s come over the last two years averaging 10.2 points, 2 assists, and 2.4 blocks per game at the 2021 FIBA U20 European Championship, Kamagate built on that momentum this season in Pro A.  The 21-year-old averaged 11.3 points, 6.3 rebounds, and 1.6 blocks over 27.1 minutes per game as he proved more productive and showed an evolving feel for the game against significantly stronger competition than he did the previous year.

• Standing 6-foot-11 with an improving 230-pound frame and a 7-foot-3 wingspan, Kamagate has impressive dimensions for a center, good mobility, and is quick off his feet around the rim.  

• Playing a significant role for Paris offensively, Kamagate did much of his best work as a finisher where his size and athleticism made him a constant target for lob passes, impactful offensive rebounder, and a threat to earn some easy shots beating opposing big men up the floor.  Flashing some passing ability, touch inside, and potential as a midrange shooter, he still has some room to continue to evolve as an offensive weapon even if he fits a clear mold.

• Making some impressive plays on the defensive end blocking shots and sliding his feet on the perimeter, Kamagate’s tools translate on the other end as well.  He is not quite as consistent as one might hope as a rim protector and has room to improve as a rebounder, but has evolved steadily in recent years.


 

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25 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

I've seen this guy mentioned in a couple of drafts as a late round pick, possibly for Grizz at 29.Never heard of him. Out of Paris

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

I've seen this guy mentioned in a couple of drafts as a late round pick, possibly for Grizz at 29.Never heard of him. Out of Paris

 

 

 

My theory is that the domestic (college) players don't look like out-of-this-world prospects so the international guys are getting a second look.

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5 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

After seeing what happened to Adams and other Bigs in the playoffs - why is anyone looking at Kessler types in first round? IMHO only type of traditional 5s we should think of drafting to pair with Jaren are the Freak of Nature types like Duren.   I just don't want to waste a 1rst rd pick on a stiff. 

I'm seeing Robert Williams in the finals and thinking this is what Kessler would be. I don't get the "he's a stiff" talk. He doesn't look like a stiff to me. Duren would obviously be preferable but if we're trading up that high I'm trying to get one of those big wings.

Traditional 5s as high lottery picks are definitely going out of style, but that means you can pluck a starting level big who is an elite rim protector and adds a different skillset than your other bigs in the late 1st. I think that's a great way to invest a bottom of the 1st rounder.

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42 minutes ago, Thomas said:

 

Traditional 5s as high lottery picks are definitely going out of style, but that means you can pluck a starting level big who is an elite rim protector and adds a different skillset than your other bigs in the late 1st. I think that's a great way to invest a bottom of the 1st rounder.

... or maybe you wait to "GO BIG" at 47 -- take whoever is left out of Kamagate/Kessler/Ibou Badji/Khalifa Diop/Yannick Nzosa/John Butler/Jaylin Williams.  Hard to know HOW to rank those guys -- or even where Kessler/Williams/Koloko wil be picked, but at some point "raw" but fairly mobile bigs/centers HAVE to have some draft night value -- and 47 looks like a decent place to roll the dice.

... here's a name on the "staying in list": Dallas Walton a 7 foot senior out of Wake Forrest.  I know absolutely NOTHING about this guy -- but I like him already!  lol

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1 hour ago, Thomas said:

I'm seeing Robert Williams in the finals and thinking this is what Kessler would be. I don't get the "he's a stiff" talk. He doesn't look like a stiff to me. Duren would obviously be preferable but if we're trading up that high I'm trying to get one of those big wings.

Traditional 5s as high lottery picks are definitely going out of style, but that means you can pluck a starting level big who is an elite rim protector and adds a different skillset than your other bigs in the late 1st. I think that's a great way to invest a bottom of the 1st rounder.

Williams is one of those Freak of Nature guys i don't see that from Kessler.   I agree with @ALT GRIND that i'd rather use #47 on a  BPA Big or PG.   Im using 1rst rd picks on wings/big combos. 

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21 hours ago, bhoyal said:

Did you know that when Bill Walton was at UCLA and considered the best college player in America, they asked him in an interview who the best center was he had faced and he said it was his backup Swen Nater in practice every day.  Quite a compliment.

I seem to remember him saying that. 

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4 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Williams is one of those Freak of Nature guys i don't see that from Kessler.   I agree with @ALT GRIND that i'd rather use #47 on a  BPA Big or PG.   Im using 1rst rd picks on wings/big combos. 

My "faves" in our range our Terry/Beauchamp/Jovic.  2 out of 3?  Ain't bad.  Those are also 3 of my top 7 or 8 overall prospects.

Yeah, we can take ONE of the boom/bust bigs at 29 or even 22 and have the pick pan out -- but which one?  Coin toss between Badji/Kamagate/Khalifa Diop/Yannick Nzosa, but I am actually leaning towards Ibou Badji.  Can't teach wingspan.  

Karlo Matkovic is probably moving up my board -- especially for the Grizz?  

Jabari might be in a class by himself.  Great shooter can get his shot off over ANYONE which isn't nothing.  Solid defense with some rebounding and decent length which would give him an upside of WHAT?  A cross between Kevin Durant and Bam Adebayo?  

Koloko and Williams and Kessler then those Badji/Kamagate guys might actually be closer to Chet than Chet is to Jabari Smith Jr. as a prospect.  And I think Chet is still a solid prospect (even if over-hyped and even if he has one of the lowest "floors" of any "big name" college players since Adam Morrison).

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3 hours ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

Totally agree about Duren and the way Penny used him… same thing happened with Precious.

Wiseman wasn’t ready either but that didn’t stop the pros from snagging him.

I am shocked that only a few posters (1 or 2 ) , have Duren inside the top 10.

I am starting to think there may be something in that Bay Area water…

Poole and Wiggins have stepped up big all year for the dubs…

It ain't the water dude

Getting High GIFs | Tenor

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23 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

Jabari might be in a class by himself.  Great shooter can get his shot off over ANYONE which isn't nothing.  Solid defense with some rebounding and decent length which would give him an upside of WHAT?  A cross between Kevin Durant and Bam Adebayo?  

Koloko and Williams and Kessler then those Badji/Kamagate guys might actually be closer to Chet than Chet is to Jabari Smith Jr. as a prospect.  

I see Al Horford as the best Jabari Smith comparison. Both have nice length and quickness to be able to switch and defend on the perimeter while providing solid post defense. Not elite shot blockers. Both are good shooters that space the floor and can finish plays. Can't really take guys off the dribble or create their own shots. Could play 5 but are probably most valuable next to a rim protecting 5. Good player but I don't see the superstar potential.

 

Chet reminds me a lot of JJJ who I think has more potential than Horford. They have the length and lateral quickness to defend on the perimeter and in the post like the other two, but also have elite shot blocking. Good 3 point shooters and play finishers with a little more ability to beat certain mismatches off the dribble. Not going to win many post up battles offensively. Chet definitely fits better as a 4 next to a 5 than a 5 in the league. If he plays as a 5 I think he'll struggle due to his lack of strength but could thrive as a 4 adding additional shot blocking to his team. Really my only concerns with Chet is getting into an organization that views him as a 5 and not getting utilized properly and bone density. I'd want to have the medical staff do some testing just to make sure he isn't at high risk of developing foot fractures that a lot of those really skinny tall guys do.

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3 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

I am almost over the Chet hype too.  Looks a bit slow.  Worse, fairly unexplosive -- and he's a good shooter not a GREAT one.  Then, his shooting really tailed off at the end of the season.  And, his fouls soared.

I might just take the best" leftover" big man at 47.  Koloko probably won't be there, but is he worth a pick at 22?  Not sure.  AND, he is probably my favorite big man in this draft.  If he's not there then roll the dice on Ibou Badji or Ismael Kamagate or Khalifa Diop or Yannick Nzosa.  Those guys are coin flips.  BUT, at 47 relatively cheap.

... Leonard Miller is going to the G League.  

John Butler is a boom/bust prospect, but I think he is worth a shot maybe even in that 22-29ish range.  All he needs really is that Chet Hype Machine.

With the other picks, I want BOTH of Dalen Terry/MarJon Beauchamp.  Nikola Jovic is up there -- but did we work him out?  His teammate Karlo Matkovich is staying in the draft.  He looks really solid.  I will probably move him up ridiculously high on my boards.  The more I watch the locals play, the more I like the IMPORTS.

... at some point the REAL LIFE NBA Draft will resemble your average fantasy football draft, where, essentially you have THREE positions (other than kicker); those being Quarterback, Flex, and Defense/Special Teams.  DEF/ST are your bigs now.  QB is Point Guard, duh.  It MIGHT NOT be a QB league, BUT I think BACKUP POINT GUARD is the NEW 6th man -- just something that REALLY matters.  FLEX position is 2-4... or maybe just wings aka non-bigs OR bigs tha can also play some stretch wing.  

Don't take Defense/Special Teams early.  And, don't take glorified DAD BIGS early either.

 

After watching Dalen Terry's passing in his highlights, I'm in. Seems great in transition. Hopefully solid on D. Let him work on the shot. Just seems like a dude that knows the game and knows his role. Take him at #22 then whatever project wing you want at #29. Whether that's Beauchamp, McGowens, Baldwin Jr.

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24 minutes ago, JittyForTheCity said:

After watching Dalen Terry's passing in his highlights, I'm in. Seems great in transition. Hopefully solid on D. Let him work on the shot. Just seems like a dude that knows the game and knows his role. Take him at #22 then whatever project wing you want at #29. Whether that's Beauchamp, McGowens, Baldwin Jr.

Terry might be worth moving up for.  

Not sold on McGowans.  Although I guess he could be a microwave chucker off the bench like Jamaal Crawford (but not as good of a ball handler).  Don't like Pat Baldwin Jr. much at all.  If I want a stiff/meh athleticism in a stretch 4 build gimme Caleb Houstan but I wouldn't take him higher than 47.

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We have like 5 guys on the roster that can play the 5, included one of our franchise cornerstones. Jaren, Adams, Tillman, Santi, and even BC can and do play the 5. What is the point in adding another guy into that mix, unless it is a two way. We currently only have Jaren and BC that can play PF, and Jaren spends about half of his time at the 5 anyway. There's also Tillie I guess, but he's far from proven and often injured. 

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4 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

Terry might be worth moving up for.  

Not sold on McGowans.  Although I guess he could be a microwave chucker off the bench like Jamaal Crawford (but not as good of a ball handler).  Don't like Pat Baldwin Jr. much at all.  If I want a stiff/meh athleticism in a stretch 4 build gimme Caleb Houstan but I wouldn't take him higher than 47.

How do you feel about Jalen Williams, Jake Laravia and Tari Eason?

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43 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

How do you feel about Jalen Williams, Jake Laravia and Tari Eason?

Not totally sold on Tari Eason.  Kind of does his own thing?  A TA type who just likes to freelance.  Reminds me for some reason of Spencer Haywood but I never watched him play.  Just going off the Netflix series on the Showtime Lakers (and the book which it was based off of).

Jalen Williams, is he quick enough?  Slo Mo speed?  Jordan Adams vibes but Jordan Adams had lots going for him. Advanced stats are MEH.  Or, at least according to my OWN metric.

I just have Terry and Beauchamp higher.  I have Jalen Williams higher than both AJ Griffin AND Kendall Williams.

LaRavia has really good advanced stats.  At 22, sure?  IF we have worked him out.  Doubt more than 22 players are better than LaRavia (or Jalen Williams/Tari Eason for that matter).

I think Eason is basically a 4.  Don't see him as a wing.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rdk4121 said:

We have like 5 guys on the roster that can play the 5, included one of our franchise cornerstones. Jaren, Adams, Tillman, Santi, and even BC can and do play the 5. What is the point in adding another guy into that mix, unless it is a two way. We currently only have Jaren and BC that can play PF, and Jaren spends about half of his time at the 5 anyway. There's also Tillie I guess, but he's far from proven and often injured. 

ALL of those players have to play WITH Jaren.

So a lot of that "big man depth" is a mirage.

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5 hours ago, Thegoodguys said:

I see Al Horford as the best Jabari Smith comparison. Both have nice length and quickness to be able to switch and defend on the perimeter while providing solid post defense. Not elite shot blockers. Both are good shooters that space the floor and can finish plays. Can't really take guys off the dribble or create their own shots. Could play 5 but are probably most valuable next to a rim protecting 5. Good player but I don't see the superstar potential.

 

Chet reminds me a lot of JJJ who I think has more potential than Horford. They have the length and lateral quickness to defend on the perimeter and in the post like the other two, but also have elite shot blocking. Good 3 point shooters and play finishers with a little more ability to beat certain mismatches off the dribble. Not going to win many post up battles offensively. Chet definitely fits better as a 4 next to a 5 than a 5 in the league. If he plays as a 5 I think he'll struggle due to his lack of strength but could thrive as a 4 adding additional shot blocking to his team. Really my only concerns with Chet is getting into an organization that views him as a 5 and not getting utilized properly and bone density. I'd want to have the medical staff do some testing just to make sure he isn't at high risk of developing foot fractures that a lot of those really skinny tall guys do.

If Jabari reminds you (in some ways) of Al Horford then that's really good.  On the other hand Jabari MIGHT be a guy with Steph Curry-esque gravity.  Or, an oversized version of Reggie Miller.

A BLEND of Horford and Steph -- THAT'S actually an AWESOME player just below that Luka/Ja tier of prospect and I would argue maybe even just as good.

Chet is NOT as athletic or explosive as Jaren.  Although JJJ isn't freakishly athletic or explosive himself.  Jaren also has a MUCH better frame.  Jaren might have a better handle at this point.  Oddly enough.  Chet's PER 36 numbers compare favorably to Chris Dudley's college peak (junior season I think).  NOBODY is buying Chet as a top 2 pick for a Chris Dudley comp (even Chris Dudley with 3's AND passing).

Chet could end up being one of the weirder NBA players since Dennis Rodman.  You almost have to hope that Chet's rebounding translates 110% (without a Timme type of player stealing Chet's boards) for him to be worth a top 3 pick.

Before the season my Chet comp (UPSIDE) was Bill Walton.  If that is his MAX CEILING then maybe that's not good enough to be a top pick lock.  Maybe a Dudley/Vlade hybrid is worth a 4-8ish spot for Chet Holmgren. 

FUNCTIONALLY though, other than random passing and pull-up 3's what does Chet do better than someone like Christian Koloko?  If you want decent hops (better than Chet), decent mobility (better than Chet) and AS GOOD rebounding/shot blocking then don't you trade DOWN for Christian Koloko?  Koloko ALSO has the superior frame.  Although that's not saying much since Chet's frame is a cross between Emoni Bates' and Andy Kaufman's.

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2 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

ALL of those players have to play WITH Jaren.

So a lot of that "big man depth" is a mirage.

What are you talking about? They don't have to play with Jaren? Adams played well with Kyle, and surprisingly Brandon. Tillman was good with Kyle. Jaren makes most most of the rest of the team better. The reality is we need solid PF to play with these guys, certainly not another C. How does another center even fit with Santi, Adams, Tillman, or Brandon? 

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Maintaining team chemistry would be a good option this year.  What if we rolled with what we have?  If we can re-sign Tyus & Slo-Mo, I wouldn't mind trading out of this draft for future protected firsts.

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3 hours ago, pjs said:

Maintaining team chemistry would be a good option this year.  What if we rolled with what we have?  If we can re-sign Tyus & Slo-Mo, I wouldn't mind trading out of this draft for future protected firsts.

I feel like that is a pretty good fall back plan if any big-swing trades don't work out.

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7 minutes ago, kevofrommempho said:

I feel like that is a pretty good fall back plan if any big-swing trades don't work out.

Exactly.  No need to reach.  We can let it ride & see if the hoped for internal improvement pans out.  I expect improvement from all our young guys.  We should trade from a position of strength or not at all.

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New ESPN mock has us taking Chandler then Houstan.

I really liked KC at UT, but man it would seem weird to draft a backup PG. If he's high on their board, I guess it makes sense to lock in a solid rotational guy at $2-$3M/year.

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