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Grizzled Vet

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After we took that low risk with Culver I believe the next move should be going after Marvin Bagley. The Kings and Minny are terrible organizations when we are talking about devoloping talent. 

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49 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

After we took that low risk with Culver I believe the next move should be going after Marvin Bagley. The Kings and Minny are terrible organizations when we are talking about devoloping talent. 

Could be the target... But there are rumors that GSW is up to a big trade and I feel we have been in talks with them pre-draft...

So maybe Wiseman + Wiggins for Kyle Anderson + Rondo + Hernangomez/Culver + Clarke could be something... They will fill the roster with valuable players while saving up to 20-30 million in repeater tax.

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Just an observation, maybe I'm reading this wrong, and maybe rumours are just that, rumours:

The Celtics were trying to dump Smart onto us for Kyle and/or Grayson, but when this fell through, the Celtics EXTEND Marcus Smart for 4 years, even though the Wolves are begging the Celtics for Smart, and the Wolves end up with Beverley instead - but only second hand, through a trade with us, because we jumped in first.

Out of these 3 franchise FO, I think I'll trust ours the most. They haven't yet revealed their end game, but the moves are a lot more encouraging the the other 2's decision making processes

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2 hours ago, Pumuki said:

Could be the target... But there are rumors that GSW is up to a big trade and I feel we have been in talks with them pre-draft...

So maybe Wiseman + Wiggins for Kyle Anderson + Rondo + Hernangomez/Culver + Clarke could be something... They will fill the roster with valuable players while saving up to 20-30 million in repeater tax.

I would do this kind of deal for sure, that would set us for the future without giving up in the present. If we do trade SlowMo I think we better keep Clarke and move Melton instead. 

 

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yey94y5w

 

Ja/Tyus/Konchar

Dillon/Bane/Culver/Merril

Wiggins/Ziaire/Pons(TW)

Jaren/Tillman/Clarke/Santi/Tillie(TW)

Adams/Wiseman

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8 hours ago, Ja_Rules said:

 

I believe so, SlowMo bring as much to our team as Smart give to them when you talk about culture and regular season production. But the problemn in either way is if they deserves that kind of money on the market and if they will produce wins when things really matter. I probably would not pay SlowMo more than 14-15 mil a year.

 

 

It somewhat depends on what Ziaire develops in to.  If the FO believes after this year that he can competently play 29 mpg and not have a big dropoff from Kyle, then his value here goes down.

I hope Kyle plays so well this year that the FO has to make a real tough decision to pay him or not.  If KA on a contract year improves slightly from last year, I think he's worth $16 to $21 mm in free agency next year based on what Fournier, Smart, Gary Trent and Norman Powell got this year, but only if he keeps improving on his shot

If the FO believes that is too much, he will be dealt, but I'm not sure that is too much, because I don't think they get a FA in here.

Not sure what the market looks like for next year in terms of cap space and available free agents at his positions, and of course, not sure on what his value will be next year to 1 team.

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4 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

 

It somewhat depends on what Ziaire develops in to.  If the FO believes after this year that he can competently play 29 mpg and not have a big dropoff from Kyle, then his value here goes down.

I hope Kyle plays so well this year that the FO has to make a real tough decision to pay him or not.  If KA on a contract year improves slightly from last year, I think he's worth $16 to $21 mm in free agency next year based on what Fournier, Smart, Gary Trent and Norman Powell got this year, but only if he keeps improving on his shot

If the FO believes that is too much, he will be dealt, but I'm not sure that is too much, because I don't think they get a FA in here.

Not sure what the market looks like for next year in terms of cap space and available free agents at his positions, and of course, not sure on what his value will be next year to 1 team.

I understand your point, but dont think that 3 years from now his contract might hurt us. We have to resign Ja, Jaren, Dillon, Bane, Tillman, Clarke ...

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49 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

 

It somewhat depends on what Ziaire develops in to.  If the FO believes after this year that he can competently play 29 mpg and not have a big dropoff from Kyle, then his value here goes down.

I hope Kyle plays so well this year that the FO has to make a real tough decision to pay him or not.  If KA on a contract year improves slightly from last year, I think he's worth $16 to $21 mm in free agency next year based on what Fournier, Smart, Gary Trent and Norman Powell got this year, but only if he keeps improving on his shot

If the FO believes that is too much, he will be dealt, but I'm not sure that is too much, because I don't think they get a FA in here.

Not sure what the market looks like for next year in terms of cap space and available free agents at his positions, and of course, not sure on what his value will be next year to 1 team.

I want Kyle to stay here, but if we're talking Fournier or Powell money and years, then it's time to move on. 

Kyle will be 29 when his next contract starts. He's probably a 4 now. And he's averaged more than 10 points pg in a season only once.  If we can sign him at or around his current deal, great. At high teens or $20M, wish Kyle luck and try to do a sign-and-trade and get an asset back. 

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26 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

I understand your point, but dont think that 3 years from now his contract might hurt us. We have to resign Ja, Jaren, Dillon, Bane, Tillman, Clarke ...

 Oh I agree with that.  The FO has to determine who the best players are to keep around here.  .

It's not just a future salary issue, it's a current playing time issue. They have to get these youngsters PT for development and evaluation reasons.

At this point, I'd rather have Kyle Anderson over Clarke, Bane or Tillman, even though those guys are 3-5 years younger.   Kyle's game is not going to drop off as he ages like more athletic players.  He's much more versatile than anyone on roster, and  I think he allows the team to roster just 2 PGs.  Of course, they can't pay him the most of probably what he'll get on the market.  If they know he wants to be here or if they know he's eyeing a return to California or NY, I think all those factor in to what they do. 

 

The team can't afford to pay him like Fournier, but they need to be a little watchful of how Ja is perceiving all these moves.  If it is just a constant flow of money saving moves for 7 straight years, I'm not sure he's sticking around.

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7 minutes ago, The J Crew said:

I want Kyle to stay here, but if we're talking Fournier or Powell money and years, then it's time to move on. 

Kyle will be 29 when his next contract starts. He's probably a 4 now. And he's averaged more than 10 points pg in a season only once.  I we can sign him at or around his current deal, great. At high teens or $20M, wish Kyle luck and try to do a sign-and-trade and get an asset back. 

CoSign.  Ja Jaren and Dillon are up for big paydays soon. Its just hard for me to see the logic in Kyle being our 4th highest player at that point. 

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8 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

 Oh I agree with that.  The FO has to determine who the best players are to keep around here.  .

It's not just a future salary issue, it's a current playing time issue. They have to get these youngsters PT for development and evaluation reasons.

At this point, I'd rather have Kyle Anderson over Clarke, Bane or Tillman, even though those guys are 3-5 years younger.   Kyle's game is not going to drop off as he ages like more athletic players.  He's much more versatile than anyone on roster, and  I think he allows the team to roster just 2 PGs.  Of course, they can't pay him the most of probably what he'll get on the market.  If they know he wants to be here or if they know he's eyeing a return to California or NY, I think all those factor in to what they do. 

 

I disagree. And I thought I was the biggest Kyle fan, but apparently not. 

It's not the age, it's that we control Desmond, BC and Xavier for 6-8 more years. Restricted free agency is such a valuable tool for the small markets. 

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50 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

I understand your point, but dont think that 3 years from now his contract might hurt us. We have to resign Ja, Jaren, Dillon, Bane, Tillman, Clarke ...

We don't have to resign anyone. The Front Office has stated they want Ja and JJJ long-term. Everyone else is expendable, even Dillon Brooks, in the right deal. Don't be surprised if a number of players you list as "have to resign" get moved long before then. 

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4 hours ago, chipc3 said:

We don't have to resign anyone. The Front Office has stated they want Ja and JJJ long-term. Everyone else is expendable, even Dillon Brooks, in the right deal. Don't be surprised if a number of players you list as "have to resign" get moved long before then. 

From watch I see from Bane in SL he will not be expandable, and I say this sooner rather than later.

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1 minute ago, Ja_Rules said:

From watch I see from Bane in SL he will not be expandable, and I say this sooner rather than later.

Beware the summer league All-Star label. 

If trading Bane could bring in Bradley Beal from Washington would you change your position on how expendable (not expandable)  Bane is? 

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7 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Beware the summer league All-Star label. 

If trading Bane could bring in Bradley Beal from Washington would you change your position on how expendable (not expandable)  Bane is? 

I know you're not asking me, but absolutely unequivocally yes. 

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13 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Beware the summer league All-Star label. 

If trading Bane could bring in Bradley Beal from Washington would you change your position on how expendable (not expandable)  Bane is? 

But that is different, you are talking about a AllStar and a potential scoring champion in the league. If that is the case of course I would. 

By th way, you are setting my expectations high with all the Beal talk. I really want Beal in the Beale, could you imagine?

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13 hours ago, Ja_Rules said:

After we took that low risk with Culver I believe the next move should be going after Marvin Bagley. The Kings and Minny are terrible organizations when we are talking about devoloping talent. 

I’d take a flyer on Bagley. Despite the injury issues and meh defense, he still has plenty of potential and is very young. Though, I’m not sure on what you trade to get him. 

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Problem with Bagley is that he is paid $11.3M next season, and is anyone sure he's even a starter? Then, he's an RFA at the same time that Jaren is. 

And, he's been really bad on defense. Doesn't really fit our MO. 

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11 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

But that is different, you are talking about a AllStar and a potential scoring champion in the league. If that is the case of course I would. 

By th way, you are setting my expectations high with all the Beal talk. I really want Beal in the Beale, could you imagine?

I don't believe it is different. I truly believe there is no player the Grizzlies would trade Ja or JJJ for at this point. Everyone else is expendable in the right deal. That is my one and only point. 

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4 hours ago, The J Crew said:

I disagree. And I thought I was the biggest Kyle fan, but apparently not. 

It's not the age, it's that we control Desmond, BC and Xavier for 6-8 more years. Restricted free agency is such a valuable tool for the small markets. 

Exactly why i think draft picks can be so important for the grizz , keep taking shots in the draft or build up enough for a trade once we see the young guys  and have a better idea of what we really need to make that leap. I dont have much of a problem taking on questionable salary if we would be stuck with MLE type money anyways. 

 

having JV and Beverly +MLE like hart or whoever here  somehow would have been a nice off season as well but this FO has put it all on the line going in a different direction . I doubt we fall off a cliff swaping jv for adams. its a clear sign that this FO is banking on those picks one way or another and doesnt mind taking a step back /sideway to keep building .

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1 hour ago, Ja_Rules said:

From watch I see from Bane in SL he will not be expandable, and I say this sooner rather than later.

Bane's summer league play will have very little to do with his need for this team IMO. He is best suited to come in and knock down threes. I hope he proves me wrong and can become a DB type player. I was only impressed with his scoring this summer, his ball handling, and other skills were nothing to get excited about. Don't get me wrong, I like him, and think he is a good asset.

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Beal is a 3x all-star who recently averaged over 30ppg two different seasons.  They won't trade him for Bane.

They will trade him in a way that fleeces some franchise of their future.   I really would hate to see the Grizz trade Bane+other multiple players+draft picks for one guy and then that one guys blows out/tears a whatever-tendon-muscle-ligament thing and where does that leave us?  

Example: the infamous NFL Herschel Walker trade.   Vikings have not made a Super Bowl appearance since the trade.  Dallas ended up winning three.  ESPN called it one of the biggest fleece jobs of all time.  

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1 hour ago, bhoyal said:

Beal is a 3x all-star who recently averaged over 30ppg two different seasons.  They won't trade him for Bane.

They will trade him in a way that fleeces some franchise of their future.   I really would hate to see the Grizz trade Bane+other multiple players+draft picks for one guy and then that one guys blows out/tears a whatever-tendon-muscle-ligament thing and where does that leave us?  

Example: the infamous NFL Herschel Walker trade.   Vikings have not made a Super Bowl appearance since the trade.  Dallas ended up winning three.  ESPN called it one of the biggest fleece jobs of all time.  

Yeah I remember that. I thought at the time why are the Cowboys doing this, he's their best player.

As you say, the rest is history.....

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1 hour ago, bhoyal said:

 

Example: the infamous NFL Herschel Walker trade.   Vikings have not made a Super Bowl appearance since the trade.  Dallas ended up winning three.  ESPN called it one of the biggest fleece jobs of all time.  

Vikqueens had not made a SB 12 years before that trade, but point is taken.

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I'd hate to see us trade 3 and a pick and new guys blows out knee too........but if new guy puts us over the top and works out, we would all be good. Who knows, so many different outcomes possible. 

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