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ALT GRIND

NBA Draft Top 25 With Tiers: Gone Fishing Edition

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47 minutes ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

Agree, BC has shown too many good things to just toss him after a bad stretch.

 

Plus he's on a rookie contract for 2 more years, why do we want to get rid of cheap solid bench players?

Not to mention he didn’t have a real off season to double down on his shot mechanics. His shot clearly too a step back and it was probably largely due to not being able to practice consistently. I still see BC as a major piece of this team’s future. Even to the point I’d think about getting what we can this off-season for Kyle.  

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38 minutes ago, King Dork said:

Not to mention he didn’t have a real off season to double down on his shot mechanics. His shot clearly too a step back and it was probably largely due to not being able to practice consistently. I still see BC as a major piece of this team’s future. Even to the point I’d think about getting what we can this off-season for Kyle.  

That is another thing that crossed my mind. I love SlowMo and JV, but that is probably the best they can be, should we trade those guys and add guys in the Jaren and Ja window? Like Turner or Ball or Grant...

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1 hour ago, Ja_Rules said:

That is another thing that crossed my mind. I love SlowMo and JV, but that is probably the best they can be, should we trade those guys and add guys in the Jaren and Ja window? Like Turner or Ball or Grant...

Slo Mo and JV might have peaked but they should be able to play at this level or close to it for... 10 years.  They are more skill/fundamental guys than athletes so any steep drop in production might be a long way off.  I like ‘em as rotation guys especially as bench cogs.  Those two can anchor a bench.  Possibly overpaid but most NBA players are.  ... we just can’t overpay guys further down the depth chart.

BC is limited and probably only had value in lineups with both Ja and Jaren.  Then maybe you need a bigger 3 than Dillon to put next to him.  I thought Clarke/Jaden were fairly effective for us against the Jazz but we didn’t trot out many lineups featuring those two.  It’s like we crunched all the data from FiveManLineupsMachine9000 — then played all the wrong ones.

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2 hours ago, King Dork said:

Not to mention he didn’t have a real off season to double down on his shot mechanics. His shot clearly too a step back and it was probably largely due to not being able to practice consistently. I still see BC as a major piece of this team’s future. Even to the point I’d think about getting what we can this off-season for Kyle.  

BC’s minutes and Kyle’s minutes should depend on matchups/who’s got the hot hand.  But, then again, that should apply to pretty much every player in the league outside the top 25 or top 50.

Both are good low/medium low usage role players.  We probably have enough of those toolsy glue guys — Slo Mo, Melton, Konchar, Clarke, Tillman as well as Tyus Jones.  Don’t see any reason to add more.  We need guys who offer leveraged scoring to complement Ja/Jaren as either a 1b or 1c option (ideally) or even a 3b (behind Dillon and JV).  We also have 3 power forwards (Jaren/Tillman/Clarke) in a zero power forward league.  We’d be better off drafting a Rhodes College fullback in the 2nd round than another utility 4.

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9 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

Slo Mo and JV might have peaked but they should be able to play at this level or close to it for... 10 years.  They are more skill/fundamental guys than athletes so any steep drop in production might be a long way off.  I like ‘em as rotation guys especially as bench cogs.  Those two can anchor a bench.  Possibly overpaid but most NBA players are.  ... we just can’t overpay guys further down the depth chart.

BC is limited and probably only had value in lineups with both Ja and Jaren.  Then maybe you need a bigger 3 than Dillon to put next to him.  I thought Clarke/Jaden were fairly effective for us against the Jazz but we didn’t trot out many lineups featuring those two.  It’s like we crunched all the data from FiveManLineupsMachine9000 — then played all the wrong ones.

10 years??? Them dudes aren’t going to be nearly this good in 5 years. I know when people say consolidation trade most of these boards think of our plentiful bench guys, but it really means JV, Kyle and Tyus because those dudes have the most value. 
 

9 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

BC’s minutes and Kyle’s minutes should depend on matchups/who’s got the hot hand.  But, then again, that should apply to pretty much every player in the league outside the top 25 or top 50.

Both are good low/medium low usage role players.  We probably have enough of those toolsy glue guys — Slo Mo, Melton, Konchar, Clarke, Tillman as well as Tyus Jones.  Don’t see any reason to add more.  We need guys who offer leveraged scoring to complement Ja/Jaren as either a 1b or 1c option (ideally) or even a 3b (behind Dillon and JV).  We also have 3 power forwards (Jaren/Tillman/Clarke) in a zero power forward league.  We’d be better off drafting a Rhodes College fullback in the 2nd round than another utility 4.

Would NO sign and trade Lonzo to us for Kyle? Maybe. What would a package centered around JV and picks be able to bring back? What contender is a sure handed PG away that would value Tyus? Those are the questions the FO should be asking this off-season. 

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6 minutes ago, King Dork said:

10 years??? Them dudes aren’t going to be nearly this good in 5 years. I know when people say consolidation trade most of these boards think of our plentiful bench guys, but it really means JV, Kyle and Tyus because those dudes have the most value. 
 

Would NO sign and trade Lonzo to us for Kyle? Maybe. What would a package centered around JV and picks be able to bring back? What contender is a sure handed PG away that would value Tyus? Those are the questions the FO should be asking this off-season. 

JV/Kyle played well this year and are more "skills" guys.   Not athletes.  These are the types of guys who play well into their late 30's and maybe early 40's.  But... point taken.  How high is their trade value?  Not sure.  Maybe Melton/Clarke have more trade value.  I actually think the Knicks might value/over-value that combo.  Tyus Jones is good and has value but maybe doesn't move the needle enough as a backup point guard.  A "caretaker" like him is more of a third stringer type (I think the league will figure this out very soon).  So cash in on a Dribble/Chew Gum backup point guard aka Tyus "Special Delivery" Jones.  

Yeah, should we move on from JV/Kyle?  If we can get Beal/KAT or one of those top dudes...  and for DAME EFFFFING LILLARD you trade everyone except for Ja Morant.  

If we can't get Tier 1 or even Tier 0.5 free agents/trade candidates/draft picks, I wouldn't move off JV/Kyle.  4 dudes did pretty much all the work, dragging our team to the play-in/play offs and Ja/DB were the other half.  

I think JV can get 10 rebounds in a game when he's 42.

Kyle should be able to put up 8/5/5 when he's 50.

Even if we just traded Melton/BC for cash/2021 and future late first round picks/second round picks/trade exceptions at the very least that would free up money to spend on free agents and free up minutes/touches/shots for Jon Konchar, Desmond Bane, Xavier Tillman, and Killian Tillie (which wouldn't be a bad thing).  ... with Tyus Jones you can trade him for cash/2nd rounders/expiring contract and replace 80% of his value by signing Jarrett Jack at 20% of the cost.  

If our opening night starting five was Ja/Bane/Dillon/Kyle/Jaren with Konchar/Bane/Kyle/Tillman/Tillie (plus draft picks) as our platoon bench mob then we would have a more-cohesive rotation with 80% of the production at 20% of the cost (of our former back-end rotation/bench guys).

Kyle acts as the point forward in the second lineup with Bane/Tillie/Konchar as our toolsy shooters and Xavier Tillman as our toolsy rebounder/enforcer.

Just removing our somewhat-overpriced PARTS (Tyus/Grayson/Melton/Clarke plus Winslow's contract) could lead to a greater (and far cheaper) WHOLE (Konchar/Tillman/Tillie/draft picks).  Especially if we consolidate that money into a free agent upgrade (Lonzo?) or two (Lonzo plus Nerlens Noel?).  If Lonzo and Nerlens want too much money AND they don't really fit what we are trying to do then we can try to sign Jeff Green and Jarrett Jack or some other grizzled vets who can help our team win while being low usage/uber low usage.

Failing a no-brainer trade such as going DOUBLE PLUS ALL IN for Beal or KAT or, holding breathe, DAMIAN LILLARD I would NOT break up our FOUR HORSEMEN aka Ja/DB/KYLE/JV with Jaren being either the Barry Windham or the Sid Vicious of the group.  

 

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14 hours ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

Agree, BC has shown too many good things to just toss him after a bad stretch.

 

Plus he's on a rookie contract for 2 more years, why do we want to get rid of cheap solid bench players?

If this is the reasoning that is followed, then Grayson has a big advantage over Melton in any consolidation trade

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13 hours ago, King Dork said:

Not to mention he didn’t have a real off season to double down on his shot mechanics. His shot clearly too a step back and it was probably largely due to not being able to practice consistently. I still see BC as a major piece of this team’s future. Even to the point I’d think about getting what we can this off-season for Kyle.  

Well Kyle and Jonas and Tyus will be expiring at the end of next season, so it might be prudent to at least investigate trade scenarios

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40 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

Well Kyle and Jonas and Tyus will be expiring at the end of next season, so it might be prudent to at least investigate trade scenarios

Didn't realize that.  Our financial spreadsheets are about to get SQUEEZED.

I think Kyle/JV are worth resigning.  I am OUT on Dribble/Chew Gum backup point guards like Tyus Jones.  

Looks like next season is the LAST season where we are playing with HOUSE MONEY.  Gotta go ALL IN this summer (draft/free agency) but WITHOUT over-paying (or at least too much).

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On 6/6/2021 at 10:29 AM, Grizzfan7979 said:

Agree, BC has shown too many good things to just toss him after a bad stretch.

 

Plus he's on a rookie contract for 2 more years, why do we want to get rid of cheap solid bench players?

Why?  Because somebody in the front office would rather roll the dice on taking on injured players who end up $$$$ busts.

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