PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan

JV career playoff stats...starter or role player?

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JV is a fantastic regular season player, probably close to a top 5 center in the league. But that's for when you aren't game planning as much, and don't face the same team over and over again. There's a reason Toronto traded him. In the playoffs he gets picked on over and over again on the pick and roll. He's hasn't been effective at all either, his minutes have gone up, yet his points, rebounds, blocks, and fouls have all gone up. Just look up his advanced numbers for this year's regular season vs playoffs. 

I'm all for keeping him long term, but he has his limitations, and they are showing. The reality is Jaren has to step up, now and long term. 

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23 hours ago, FrenchGrizzlies said:

Sitting our best player by far on regular season, top 3 rebounders, scorer, double double machine ...great idea !  All player from every team struggle against Utah , Gobert and their bunch of shooters. Utah average the same amount of 3 in the serie than they do in the regular season but if we cannot block them, it's because of JV...seriously....

?

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26 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

JV is a fantastic regular season player, probably close to a top 5 center in the league. But that's for when you aren't game planning as much, and don't face the same team over and over again. There's a reason Toronto traded him. In the playoffs he gets picked on over and over again on the pick and roll. He's hasn't been effective at all either, his minutes have gone up, yet his points, rebounds, blocks, and fouls have all gone up. Just look up his advanced numbers for this year's regular season vs playoffs. 

I'm all for keeping him long term, but he has his limitations, and they are showing. The reality is Jaren has to step up, now and long term. 

We might have to add a third big man just as good as JV/Jaren.  Jaren is built more for the playoffs but JV got us there.  But neither is good enough to drag our team to the playoffs, especially not 3J (at least not yet).  
 

Wonder if we can get KAT for Clarke/Tillman/Melton/picks/Tyus and Winslow’s contract.  A KAT/Jaren/JV 3 big man rotation would be nice.  

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5 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

Not to turn this into an off-season thread, which it might be in less than 24 hours, but all the starters we play are flawed, and I'm not sure any are top 10 in their position except possibly Ja, depending on what the needs of the team are.

Like most centers against the Jazz, JV is struggling, but the questions are

1- What centers don't struggle against the Jazz

2- Which of those are attainable 

3 - What is the impact on rebounding and offense

But another question is how much of the struggles are also because of the perimeter players. It will be interesting to see the likely matchup of the Clippers v Jazz to see what impact elite wing defenders have (when motivated) on Gobert's success.

 

I'm not saying an upgrade at center isn't needed, but among necessary personnel changes, I'm not sure that is top 5.

Any of u guys dissing on our starting 5 and being really smart on their inadequacies not just this topic, play any serious ball?  Like it doesn’t have to be bb, because you know fo and players don’t read this **** you guys are making up in your basements...seriously.

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3 hours ago, toocoolkellz said:

Are you suggesting Jae crowder is solely responsible?

No but he had 17 & 7 the game before which is good for a journeyman forward veteran role player.

I think he should have been kept in Memphis.  He was a good team guy.  And fearless too.

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55 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

Did JV drop 47 points in this series? 

No he didn’t...did ja average 65% fg, 17 points and 14 boards last 10 meaningful games?  Like who opens the lane an sets the screens for ja and jv...the guys on the floor respect jv for doing those things at pretty elite level, and it’s about team and winning this time of year...one ball, one team, whatever it takes to win.

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7 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

No he didn’t...did ja average 65% fg, 17 points and 14 boards last 10 meaningful games?  Like who opens the lane an sets the screens for ja and jv...the guys on the floor respect jv for doing those things at pretty elite level, and it’s about team and winning this time of year...one ball, one team, whatever it takes to win.

Yes, and we're not winning. Not sure what else there is to talk about. JV and his lack of production on offense, and poor defense are a big part of why we are not winning right now. He's getting 6 more minutes per game than he was in the regular season, but he's scoring 3 less points per game and averaging 2 less rebounds. He's defensive rating went from 108 per 100 possessions, to 126. He's by no means the only reason, but he's one of our 3 best players, so there is more resting on his shoulders. Dillon and Ja have brought it this series, there numbers have taken a big jump up. JV's have fallen across the board more or less. 

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13 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

Yes, and we're not winning. Not sure what else there is to talk about. JV and his lack of production on offense, and poor defense are a big part of why we are not winning right now. He's getting 6 more minutes per game than he was in the regular season, but he's scoring 3 less points per game and averaging 2 less rebounds. He's defensive rating went from 108 per 100 possessions, to 126. He's by no means the only reason, but he's one of our 3 best players, so there is more resting on his shoulders. Dillon and Ja have brought it this series, there numbers have taken a big jump up. JV's have fallen across the board more or less. 

Not biting...too easy

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11 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

Ja has only averaged 30 and 7 over the play-ins and play-offs, he must be the problem. 

Who is saying ja is a problem?  We’re a young team, all our guys including ja, jv, db, bane are learning as a team thru this...hey we want to see progress, ALL our guys have improved this year, their no where near their peak...this team will continue to get better and will draft smartly and maybe attract a key fa ...relax on picking a scapegoat...there isn’t one...

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43 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

Not biting...too easy

Biting on what? Someone bringing up valid criticisms and not having an argument? 

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43 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

Who is saying ja is a problem?  We’re a young team, all our guys including ja, jv, db, bane are learning as a team thru this...hey we want to see progress, ALL our guys have improved this year, their no where near their peak...this team will continue to get better and will draft smartly and maybe attract a key fa ...relax on picking a scapegoat...there isn’t one...

You literally said "did  ja average 65% fg, 17 points and 14 boards last 10 meaningful game s ?" My point is, he's been playing far better than that. I'm not doubting JV's regular season numbers, or his value to this team. He's not living up to his value right now. He's not defending as well as he did in the regular season, not scoring as well, not rebounding as well. We need more from him, which is a compliment. He's just not bringing the same value he had in the regular season. 

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1 hour ago, bhoyal said:

No but he had 17 & 7 the game before which is good for a journeyman forward veteran role player.

I think he should have been kept in Memphis.  He was a good team guy.  And fearless too.

I wouldn't have been opposed to keeping him

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1 hour ago, Rdk4121 said:

Ja has only averaged 30 and 7 over the play-ins and play-offs, he must be the problem. 

No its Jaren's fault.

Wait...no it is Kyle's fault.

Hang on, I got it now, its McDermott and Frazier's fault.

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1 hour ago, bhoyal said:

No but he had 17 & 7 the game before which is good for a journeyman forward veteran role player.

I think he should have been kept in Memphis.  He was a good team guy.  And fearless too.

 

Just a reminder that Chris Wallace traded 3 guys who have played about 230 minutes (and growing) in the playoffs as role players for Justise Winslow, who has played 0 minutes these playoffs, Dion Waiters who played 0 minutes here but was paid about $25 mm by this FO, and Gorgui Dieng who was bought out at no discount and actually  played against this team in the play in game and may have been an asset in going against Rudy Gobert.

 

Man, that Chris Wallace.....what a horrible trade....oh wait, was that not Wallace?

At least the team got 95 games out of Chandler Parsons 3 seasons, and when dealt they got a serviceable role player out of the deal. The FO paid $69 mm out to him in his 3 seasons for 95 games.  I'm not saying the Winslow deal was as bad as the Parsons deal, but if Winslow doesn't produce in a deal or as a player, it's not far off.

 

 

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The Winslow deal doesn't set us back long term, or and clearly didn't prevent us from making the playoffs (or play in last year). We didn't guys up anything of value. Jae wasn't coming back anyway, Hill sucks, I wish we would've kept Dieng. Doesn't matter, we weren't getting any big time free agents with that money on a compete rebuilding team picked to finish 10th or 11th. It was worth the risk. Didn't work out, oh well. 

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17 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

You literally said "did  ja average 65% fg, 17 points and 14 boards last 10 meaningful game s ?" My point is, he's been playing far better than that. I'm not doubting JV's regular season numbers, or his value to this team. He's not living up to his value right now. He's not defending as well as he did in the regular season, not scoring as well, not rebounding as well. We need more from him, which is a compliment. He's just not bringing the same value he had in the regular season. 

It's almost like he's being defended by a DPOY.......

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The Rudy vs JV match up was not the problem JV still was productive like he always his.

But the lack of rotation  on 3s and Rim protection was just AWFUL.Coach finally figure it out with 8 mimutes left on game 5 that going small was the anwser.But since this was his first playoff series I give him a pass.

 

JV is just unplayable vs elite high pick &role guards.

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8 minutes ago, costarica2 said:

The Rudy vs JV match up was not the problem JV still was productive like he always his.

But the lack of rotation  on 3s and Rim protection was just AWFUL.Coach finally figure it out with 8 mimutes left on game 5 that going small was the anwser.But since this was his first playoff series I give him a pass.

 

JV is just unplayable vs elite high pick &role guards.

He cant big minutes in the Playoffs, is as simples as that. Raptors traded him for Gasolina because of that, he doesn’t space the floor on O and gets killed on D. I like JV, but talking about prime time he is a bench/role player. Just like SlowMo is. 

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4 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

He cant big minutes in the Playoffs, is as simples as that. Raptors traded him for Gasolina because of that, he doesn’t space the floor on O and gets killed on D. I like JV, but talking about prime time he is a bench/role player. Just like SlowMo is. 

And there is no shame in that.Its why players like Jaren get drafted so high to be able to keep up with the speed and 3s.

I watch Nurkif(blazers) and the Joker on tuesday and the exact same issue was happening to them they couldn't stop anyone on defense and their teammates suffer because of it.

Anyways I'm ok with Jonas been the plan A but if is not working you have to put him the bench like they did in Toronto.

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5 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

JV is a fantastic regular season player, probably close to a top 5 center in the league. But that's for when you aren't game planning as much, and don't face the same team over and over again. There's a reason Toronto traded him. In the playoffs he gets picked on over and over again on the pick and roll. He's hasn't been effective at all either, his minutes have gone up, yet his points, rebounds, blocks, and fouls have all gone up. Just look up his advanced numbers for this year's regular season vs playoffs. 

I'm all for keeping him long term, but he has his limitations, and they are showing. The reality is Jaren has to step up, now and long term. 

JV and Jaren can’t play together. They have to make a decision on which direction they want to go as far as those 2 are concerned. Personally I’d probably see what both could bring back in a trade tbh. If we could get a CJ Mccolum type for him I’d do it. 
 

Either way this is the off-season where hard decisions about this team’s future will have to be made. 

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15 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

He cant big minutes in the Playoffs, is as simples as that. Raptors traded him for Gasolina because of that, he doesn’t space the floor on O and gets killed on D. I like JV, but talking about prime time he is a bench/role player. Just like SlowMo is. 

If what you say is true, then you trade him. He’s too valuable of an asset to be riding the bench. 

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26 minutes ago, costarica2 said:

The Rudy vs JV match up was not the problem JV still was productive like he always his.

But the lack of rotation  on 3s and Rim protection was just AWFUL.Coach finally figure it out with 8 mimutes left on game 5 that going small was the anwser.But since this was his first playoff series I give him a pass.

 

JV is just unplayable vs elite high pick &role guards.

This is way more reasonable than many posters are capable of. Great year, Grizz. We have a lot of tough decisions and a lot of hard work ahead of us.

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14 minutes ago, costarica2 said:

And there is no shame in that.Its why players like Jaren get drafted so high to be able to keep up with the speed and 3s.

I watch Nurkif(blazers) and the Joker on tuesday and the exact same issue was happening to them they couldn't stop anyone on defense and their teammates suffer because of it.

Anyways I'm ok with Jonas been the plan A but if is not working you have to put him the bench like they did in Toronto.

I thought Jaren showed some promise and validated our reasoning in drafting him.

Yeah, JV got us here though.  Not sure where we get an upgraded 3rd big man but maybe we can draft or sign one.  BC/Tillman might be closer to 4th/5th bigs.  

 

P.S.  Rudy Gobert, at least against us is playing like PRIME Playoffs/Finals Hakeem and Shaq.  If he can keep it up... maybe they have themselves a nice little mini-dynasty.

 

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