Ole Dirty Klondike

Lineup Adjustments: Time to Go Small

Recommended Posts

I wouldn't normally recommend a lineup change in the middle of a playoff series but we have to pull out all of the stops. We are a 9th seed playing against the overall #1 team in the NBA with 3 NBA All Stars (one of whom is a 2x DPoY) and they are way more experienced than we are. We have to do something, I mean we are against the ropes down 3-1 and going to Utah. We don't have anything to lose, it's time to make a lineup change and go smaller

With that out of the way, the Jazz start 3 guys who are 6'4" and under and Royce O'Neal has been killing us sitting out there wide open for 3. Game 2 he hit 4 3's, game 3 he hit 4 3s and last night he hit 3 3s. All of those threes were very timely for the Jazz. Obviously, I don't think we should center our gameplan around O'Neal BUT he has been an x-factor for the Jazz and I think going smaller would give us better overall matchups. To me, it comes down to sitting JV or JJJ and starting the other at C. At this time, I would have to choose JV to start. Sure, his p n r defense is not good BUT JJJ has been a liability in many other ways and jacking up 10 3s was not helpful last night especially without anybody down low to get an offensive board. O'Neale has been killing us being left wide open because JJJ is helping out too much on other players and last night O'Neale had 9 rebounds. A 6'4" PF outrebounded our 6'11" PF. Just think about that. The argument is JJJ hangs on the 3 point line cause JV occupies everything down low.......newsflash, JJJ played C with JV on the bench and JJJ was STILL hanging on the 3 point line. I still think it was a disservice to JJJ to bring him back so late in the season in the midst of a playoff race. He's not in rhythm and playing the best team in the league is not good for him now. I would go with the following lineup:

PG: Ja

SG: Melton (or Allen)

SF: DB

PF: KA

:JV

This will allow Melton to guard Mitchell more. Not that I think he would shut him down or anything BUT I think Dillon's size and aggressiveness (in addition to Mitchell being a star) is hindering his effectiveness against Mitchell. If he barely touches him, it's a foul cause Dilly is 6'7" and Mitchell is what 6'1", 6'2"? I think the refs just blow the whistle if Dilly is aggressively defending Mitchell. Melton is a good defender but not as aggressive as Dillon but also, he's closer in size to Mitchell and Dilly is closer in size to Bogdonavic. KA has actually been pretty good on Bogdonavich with the exception of that eruption at the end of game 1 but he was just on fire. I would be fine either way if we left KA on Boggy and have Dilly on O'Neale or vice versa. I think it's important that we keep Dilly on the floor and I just think JJJ is all out of sorts tbh. I would actually be fine with starting Allen instead of Melton and making the same shifts down the lineup.

Thoughts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That isn't really small tho.   Kyle is legit 6'9' which is the size of most PF's in modern NBA.  Playing Jaren is really us playing Super Big.  I agree we need to change up and stop worrying about getting Jaren going and instead focus on getting Melton going.   Melton at least has recent track record of being helpful.  

I would probably start Grayson (I think Bane is better defender but for some reason he rarely gets passes in a position to shoot).  So Grayson gets the nod.  Melton seems to do better off the bench so keep him there.   Bane gives us better size at the backup SF so he can guard Ingles or Bog. 

I also agree that DB is too important to keep getting in foul trouble guarding mitchell.  Grayson and Melton should get assignment because they are more expendable.    Dillon has actually pretty effective guarding Mike and gotten in less foul trouble too.   Mike is more important to flow of their offense than Mitchell is.   Shutting down Mike and sticking with their shooters is a better recipe for success.  

Ja - Royce

Grayson - Mitchell

Dillon - mike

Kyle - Bog

Jonas - Gobert

 

Tyus - Mike

Melton - Mitchell

Bane - Clarkson

Tillman - Ingles

Jaren - Gobert

No more of that 4 guard lineup garbage.  Tillman is a good defender on wings and it isn't like Ingles or Bog are fleet of feet.  Bonus of getting Tillman in is that if he is doing well enough he can start stealing Jaren or Jonas minutes at the 5.       We aren't gonna be able to stop Jaren from chucking from 3pt line so having Tillman out there still gives us a paint presence.  

Bottomline to me is this is do or die time and if Taylor still rolls out same rotations then his contract shouldn't be extended when its up. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

I wouldn't normally recommend a lineup change in the middle of a playoff series but we have to pull out all of the stops. We are a 9th seed playing against the overall #1 team in the NBA with 3 NBA All Stars (one of whom is a 2x DPoY) and they are way more experienced than we are. We have to do something, I mean we are against the ropes down 3-1 and going to Utah. We don't have anything to lose, it's time to make a lineup change and go small.

With that out of the way, the Jazz start 3 guys who are 6'4" and under and Royce O'Neal has been killing us sitting out there wide open for 3. Game 2 he hit 4 3's, game 3 he hit 4 3s and last night he hit 3 3s. All of those threes were very timely for the Jazz. Obviously, I don't think we should center our gameplan around O'Neal BUT he has been an x-factor for the Jazz and I think going smaller would give us better overall matchups. To me, it comes down to sitting JV or JJJ and starting the other at C. At this time, I would have to choose JV to start. Sure, his p n r defense is not good BUT JJJ has been a liability in many other ways and jacking up 10 3s was not helpful last night especially without anybody down low to get an offensive board. O'Neale has been killing us being left wide open because JJJ is helping out too much on other players and last night O'Neale had 9 rebounds. A 6'4" PF outrebounded our 6'11" PF. Just think about that. The argument is JJJ hangs on the 3 point line cause JV occupies everything down low.......newsflash, JJJ played C with JV on the bench and JJJ was STILL hanging on the 3 point line. I still think it was a disservice to JJJ to bring him back so late in the season in the midst of a playoff race. He's not in rhythm and playing the best team in the league is not good for him now. I would go with the following lineup:

PG: Ja

SG: Melton (or Allen)

SF: DB

PF: KA

? JV

This will allow Melton to guard Mitchell more. Not that I think he would shut him down or anything BUT I think Dillon's size and aggressiveness (in addition to Mitchell being a star) is hindering his effectiveness against Mitchell. If he barely touches him, it's a foul cause Dilly is 6'7" and Mitchell is what 6'1", 6'2"? I think the refs just blow the whistle if Dilly is aggressively defending Mitchell. Melton is a good defender but not as aggressive as Dillon but also, he's closer in size to Mitchell and Dilly is closer in size to Bogdonavic. KA has actually been pretty good on Bogdonavich with the exception of that eruption at the end of game 1 but he was just on fire. I would be fine either way if we left KA on Boggy and have Dilly on O'Neale or vice versa. I think it's important that we keep Dilly on the floor and I just think JJJ is all out of sorts tbh. I would actually be fine with starting Allen instead of Melton and making the same shifts down the lineup.

Thoughts

I said they should go to this lineup after game 2.  Utah obviously have loads of perimeter weapons and we need to match it defensively.  And JJJ needs more of his time at center, he needs to split time with JV in this series just to offset the pnr.  So him coming off the bench is fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Bottomline to me is this is do or die time and if Taylor still rolls out same rotations then his contract shouldn't be extended when its up. 

 

 

Definitely agree. It's do or die time. There is no tomorrow. I get the feeling Jenkins will be stubborn just like he is stubborn doing challenges though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dwash said:

I said they should go to this lineup after game 2.  Utah obviously have loads of perimeter weapons and we need to match it defensively.  And JJJ needs more of his time at center, he needs to split time with JV in this series just to offset the pnr.  So him coming off the bench is fine.

Yep, I think they are beating us with matchups now. Obviously, Utah is the much better team and we are giving a good fight but I think better matchups may put us in a better position to steal at least 1 more game but it's going to be very tough in a close out game on the road against the best team in the league. I agree, they should have done it earlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

agreed, jjj needs to come off the bench. I’d start allen over melton though. we have to give allen and bane more looks. 

 

slim. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree as well. I would however start JJJ. Right now their starting lineup is killing us on PnR and JJJ can be better there over JV. If he can continue and perhaps improve even over his 21 pt game 4 performance, the starting lineup can be dangerous. JV can hopefully dominate Favors. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, memphis slim said:

agreed, jjj needs to come off the bench. I’d start allen over melton though. we have to give allen and bane more looks. 

 

slim. 

More looks for sure, especially Bane, who is shooting 71.4% from 3 in the playoffs. But he is only attempting about 1.5 threes per game. Meanwhile, Ja and Jaren are launching 3's like crazy, and not hitting a lot of them. 

Fun Fact:  Game 1 (Win) vs Utah, Ja attempted one 3. In games 2-4 (All Losses), he attempted seven 3's per game.

FREE BANE!!!!!!!! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, GameOn said:

More looks for sure, especially Bane, who is shooting 71.4% from 3 in the playoffs. But he is only attempting about 1.5 threes per game. Meanwhile, Ja and Jaren are launching 3's like crazy, and not hitting a lot of them. 

Fun Fact:  Game 1 (Win) vs Utah, Ja attempted one 3. In games 2-4 (All Losses), he attempted seven 3's per game.

FREE BANE!!!!!!!! 

Have we seen a Ja/Bane/Dillon/Clarke/Jaren lineup all year?  Isn’t that, like, our team of the future and stuff?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clarke just I dunno hasn't looked right all season. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

That isn't really small tho.   Kyle is legit 6'9' which is the size of most PF's in modern NBA.  Playing Jaren is really us playing Super Big.  I agree we need to change up and stop worrying about getting Jaren going and instead focus on getting Melton going.   Melton at least has recent track record of being helpful.  

I would probably start Grayson (I think Bane is better defender but for some reason he rarely gets passes in a position to shoot).  So Grayson gets the nod.  Melton seems to do better off the bench so keep him there.   Bane gives us better size at the backup SF so he can guard Ingles or Bog. 

I also agree that DB is too important to keep getting in foul trouble guarding mitchell.  Grayson and Melton should get assignment because they are more expendable.    Dillon has actually pretty effective guarding Mike and gotten in less foul trouble too.   Mike is more important to flow of their offense than Mitchell is.   Shutting down Mike and sticking with their shooters is a better recipe for success.  

Ja - Royce

Grayson - Mitchell

Dillon - mike

Kyle - Bog

Jonas - Gobert

 

Tyus - Mike

Melton - Mitchell

Bane - Clarkson

Tillman - Ingles

Jaren - Gobert

No more of that 4 guard lineup garbage.  Tillman is a good defender on wings and it isn't like Ingles or Bog are fleet of feet.  Bonus of getting Tillman in is that if he is doing well enough he can start stealing Jaren or Jonas minutes at the 5.       We aren't gonna be able to stop Jaren from chucking from 3pt line so having Tillman out there still gives us a paint presence.  

Bottomline to me is this is do or die time and if Taylor still rolls out same rotations then his contract shouldn't be extended when its up. 

 

I get what your doing here, my preference would be to put Bane in the starting SG role, he's both a better and more consistent shooter and defender than both Grayson and Melton, and if Melton is cold, and Jonas gets attacked in the PnR like has happened every game this series, with the lack of perimeter shooting we have in that starting lineup we will be down double digits before the 1st time out, and again chasing the game. 

This line up, while tweaked, isn't doing much different than what we've already done in  4 games already. It's do or die, roll the dice.  If you really wanna make a change, and catch the Jazz by surprise, I'd start Bane at SG, Jaren @ C, move Jonas to the 2nd unit, and have the starting unit (I.e. Jaren) on a tight leash, not allowing the lead to go more than 7. If Jaren gets into foul trouble, tough chite. But I admit it's still problematic, my main question is can Jonas and Tillman fit and run together, and we are still risking running with Tyus-Melton-Grayson on the 2nd unit.

We could have really used the hypothetical JustDIse, size on defending the perimeter, that's been a big disappoint for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

I get what your doing here, my preference would be to put Bane in the starting SG role, he's both a better and more consistent shooter and defender than both Grayson and Melton, and if Melton is cold, and Jonas gets attacked in the PnR like has happened every game this series, with the lack of perimeter shooting we have in that starting lineup we will be down double digits before the 1st time out, and again chasing the game. 

This line up, while tweaked, isn't doing much different than what we've already done in  4 games already. It's do or die, roll the dice.  If you really wanna make a change, and catch the Jazz by surprise, I'd start Bane at SG, Jaren @ C, move Jonas to the 2nd unit, and have the starting unit (I.e. Jaren) on a tight leash, not allowing the lead to go more than 7. If Jaren gets into foul trouble, tough chite. But I admit it's still problematic, my main question is can Jonas and Tillman fit and run together, and we are still risking running with Tyus-Melton-Grayson on the 2nd unit.

We could have really used the hypothetical JustDIse, size on defending the perimeter, that's been a big disappoint for me.

i like your lineup idea better than mine lol.   Agree with you that Bane should get start especially based on lineup data from this series.

(Get ready to have your face melt when looking at these statshttps://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612763/lineups-advanced/?sort=MIN&dir=1

  • .J. Valanciunas, .K. Anderson, .D. Brooks, .J. Jackson Jr., .J. Morant  -  54mins    132.1offrtg    132.1defrtg    0.0netrtg
  • .J. Valanciunas, .D. Brooks, .G. Allen, .J. Morant, .D. Bane   -  16mins    127.0offrtg   118.9defrtg    +8.1netrtg
  •    .J. Valanciunas, .K. Anderson, .D. Brooks, .G. Allen, .J. Morant    -    14mins     96.3offrtg    142.3defrtg    -46.0netrtg
  • .J. Valanciunas, .K. Anderson, .D. Brooks, .J. Morant, .D. Bane   -   11mins    173.9offrtg    66.7defrtg    +107.2netrtg    
  • .J. Valanciunas, .G. Allen, .D. Melton, .J. Morant, .D. Bane    -     10mins 110.0offrtg     122.2defrtg   -12.2netrtg

  • .K. Anderson, .G. Allen, .J. Jackson Jr., .J. Morant, .D. Bane    -     8mins     105.9offrg    192.9defrtg    -87.0netrtg

  • .K. Anderson, .T. Jones, .D. Brooks, .J. Jackson Jr., .D. Melton    -      5mins    118.2offrtg    58.3defrtg  +59.8netrtg   

  • .D. Brooks, .J. Jackson Jr., .J. Morant, .B. Clarke, .D. Bane   -   4mins  125.0offrtg   114.3defrtg   +10.7netrtg

 

We blaming the wrong dude.. Everyone Apologize to Jonas.    This isn't on him - this is on Grayson and even more so Taylor.    Allen is common denominator in our most used lineups outside of starters and has second lowest Netrtg -21.2 with Tillman being the worst. https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612763/players-advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1    Everyone is too focused on the shooting (myself included) and ignoring the defense.  Jazz are torching him.   Jonas basically plays Gobert to a standstill and Dillon is most important player in series.    If we want to win tonight Dillon and Kyle have to play 40mins+.   Jaren as little as possible add in more Tyus.   Bane and Melton take ALL the SG minutes.    Grayson DNP with Clarke taking his rotation slot. 

So yes @BigHunkALove you are correct.  Move Bane back to starting lineup and make Jaren Center off the bench.   Only other tweak is play Brandon instead of Grayson and i guarantee you a victory tonight.   

If these guys are truly analytically driven then it should be pretty easy to see what lineup adjustments need to be made when you have played the same team 4 times.     Grayson needs to be traded this offseason.   He is metaphorical shooters "fools' gold".   Spacing the floor doesn't matter if you getting torched on defense.   He is athletic Troy Daniels.     

But we all know Taylor will never forsake his only begotten stepson.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really disagreeing, but you can't make any argument based on 15 minute long lineup stats. Just no.

On a completely unrelated topic, has someone tried to run a paternity test on Bogdanovic? We should try to shift Taylor's paternal instincts elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Not really disagreeing, but you can't make any argument based on 15 minute long lineup stats. Just no.

On a completely unrelated topic, has someone tried to run a paternity test on Bogdanovic? We should try to shift Taylor's paternal instincts elsewhere.

I disagree because when it is a series against same team;  you should be able to extrapolate that data further.   In other words don't look at as 15 mins but as % of time you used that rotation.  

Eye test tells the same story too.     Bane was doing well with starters since Spurs game.   Jazz pick on Grayson on defense as much as they pick on JV in pickNroll.   Difference is JV offers rebounding and rim-protection to offset - Grayson offers hardly anything but shooting.   

Taylor overvalues Shooting ... na.. you know what scratch that.. he overvalues Grayson. period.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/1/2021 at 9:44 PM, ALT GRIND said:

Have we seen a Ja/Bane/Dillon/Clarke/Jaren lineup all year?  Isn’t that, like, our team of the future and stuff?  

By the time JJJ got back on the court the team was in the midst of the run to the playoffs. It wasn't exactly the best time to experiment with the "lineup of the future"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now