Ace-is-high

Jaren Jackson the X factor

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47 minutes ago, The J Crew said:

I've been saying this for months. It was the same quad injury that Kawhi had that heals slowly. But some are convinced we didn't play him to tank, even though we won 33 games that season, and most definitely weren't trying to tank.

I hope that theory is right. But I'm skeptical. To me, his problems are more mental than physical. 

Yeah, I think it grew from rumor to "fact" on this board that the team was "just tanking" and JJJ was healthy. There was really no basis for that other than how people felt.

As far as his mentality, I have talked about that since his first year. IDK, there are things that I see which concern me being that it is his third year, but then again, he's not our #1 option and he did not get a chance to workout at full speed over the previous 2 off-seasons to get better. We'll see how it goes.

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2 minutes ago, The J Crew said:

The mentality is my concern. Don't think he is a killer like Ja and Dillon. He was just always bigger than his piers, and his dad was a professional athlete. Might have been too easy for Jaren. Hard to turn on the switch now. 

I think Jaren had a late growth spurt so he wasn't ALWAYS bigger than everyone else (well, not abnormally so).  He also wasn't some HS prodigy who had to worry about living up to massive expectations (like a Dajuan Wagner or an Emoni Bates who I think might be overrated and a diva already).

Lots of bigs peak early.  Lots of bigs peak LATE too.  I think Hakeem peaked fairly late.  I wanna say the Admiral peaked around 24-25 or 26.  Not everyone comes into the league tearing down basketball goals as a rookie (there has only been ONE Shaq in NBA history -- tell me I'm wrong).

Couldn't think of a great comp for 3J at draft him (although I thought it looked like he got in the way on defense and OUT of the way on offense which is the default setting for ALT GRIND basketball), and I STILL can't.  Nothing wrong with him being the third guy behind Ja/Dillon.  He probably needs to play more 5.  Might need to minimize 3J/JV twin towers lineups.  Just need more 3rd and 4th option types (even IF Desmond Bane continues to develop).  Slo Mo is probably just that toolsy, role player rotation guy, just some dude who looks like if ALF had Tom Brady's brain.

 

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8 hours ago, chipc3 said:

JJJ needs to step up his game to be a Porzingis. 

Jaren is better than Porzingis, or at least would be if he has 40 games under his belt this year to get his offensive groove back. KP isn't good on defense at this point, while Jaren is arguably our best defender from a total impact perspective. Jaren led the team in defensive rating per 100 at 106. He also had a 0.6 DBPM compared to a -0.8 for KP. He shot a higher % from 2 point range than KP, Jaren got to the free throw line more often and shot at 83% (KP at 85%), KP is a better rebounder, but per 36 it is 8.6 to 10.7. Jaren has improved a lot from his first two years there, and should only get better as he gets stronger/healthier/ works on technique (which I think he did slightly improve on this year). Jaren blocks far more shots and gets far more steals per 36 and per game (2.5 vs 1.6  b/36 and 1.7 vs .5 s/36). Jaren is 5th in the league in combined blocks and steals per 36. KP only averages 1.5 more PPG per 36 despite Jaren's struggles from 3. If Jaren returns to his previous efficiency (which I see no reason why he couldn't), it wouldn't even be close.

So it really comes down to, if Jaren can get his 3 point shooting back to normal, where he has been good to excellent for two years prior, his offensive game will be by far the best on our team. In fact, his down year he still led the team in PPG per 36 at 22.0. So best offensive player + most impactful defender, means a really good player. He's not perfect, still needs to get better at rebounding and fouling, but he's well on his way. He's also 4 years younger than KP as well. 

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7 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

Jaren is better than Porzingis, or at least would be if he has 40 games under his belt this year to get his offensive groove back. KP isn't good on defense at this point, while Jaren is arguably our best defender from a total impact perspective. Jaren led the team in defensive rating per 100 at 106. He also had a 0.6 DBPM compared to a -0.8 for KP. He shot a higher % from 2 point range than KP, Jaren got to the free throw line more often and shot at 83% (KP at 85%), KP is a better rebounder, but per 36 it is 8.6 to 10.7. Jaren has improved a lot from his first two years there, and should only get better as he gets stronger/healthier/ works on technique (which I think he did slightly improve on this year). Jaren blocks far more shots and gets far more steals per 36 and per game (2.5 vs 1.6  b/36 and 1.7 vs .5 s/36). Jaren is 5th in the league in combined blocks and steals per 36. KP only averages 1.5 more PPG per 36 despite Jaren's struggles from 3. If Jaren returns to his previous efficiency (which I see no reason why he couldn't), it wouldn't even be close.

So it really comes down to, if Jaren can get his 3 point shooting back to normal, where he has been good to excellent for two years prior, his offensive game will be by far the best on our team. In fact, his down year he still led the team in PPG per 36 at 22.0. So best offensive player + most impactful defender, means a really good player. He's not perfect, still needs to get better at rebounding and fouling, but he's well on his way. He's also 4 years younger than KP as well. 

Jaren also needs to work on his pick and pop game with Ja Morant.  Maybe it comes down to chemistry or synergy or timing or technique.  BUT, that is as much on Ja and the coaching staff as it is on Jaren.  

We just need to continue to add more firepower to complement the Ja/DB alpha backcourt, budding super sub Desmond Bane, and the 3J/JV big man bullpen.  We also have enough "toolsy" guys on the roster: Kyle, Melton, Tillman, BC, and Konchar.  Shop Tyus and Grayson, send Winslow a post card next Christmas, sign solid Moneyball BPA types, and draft over Porter/McDermott/Frazier (at the very least).

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54 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

Jaren is better than Porzingis, or at least would be if he has 40 games under his belt this year to get his offensive groove back. KP isn't good on defense at this point, while Jaren is arguably our best defender from a total impact perspective. Jaren led the team in defensive rating per 100 at 106. He also had a 0.6 DBPM compared to a -0.8 for KP. He shot a higher % from 2 point range than KP, Jaren got to the free throw line more often and shot at 83% (KP at 85%), KP is a better rebounder, but per 36 it is 8.6 to 10.7. Jaren has improved a lot from his first two years there, and should only get better as he gets stronger/healthier/ works on technique (which I think he did slightly improve on this year). Jaren blocks far more shots and gets far more steals per 36 and per game (2.5 vs 1.6  b/36 and 1.7 vs .5 s/36). Jaren is 5th in the league in combined blocks and steals per 36. KP only averages 1.5 more PPG per 36 despite Jaren's struggles from 3. If Jaren returns to his previous efficiency (which I see no reason why he couldn't), it wouldn't even be close.

So it really comes down to, if Jaren can get his 3 point shooting back to normal, where he has been good to excellent for two years prior, his offensive game will be by far the best on our team. In fact, his down year he still led the team in PPG per 36 at 22.0. So best offensive player + most impactful defender, means a really good player. He's not perfect, still needs to get better at rebounding and fouling, but he's well on his way. He's also 4 years younger than KP as well. 

1. I would take JJJ over KP.

2. What is JJJ's foul rate per 36? All the per 36 stats in the world don't add up to much if he can't stay on the court.  

I hope JJJ take this offseason and puts in a ton of work. I hope he is pushing to be the 2nd option and a MAX contract guy because as of today today he is not.

 

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30 minutes ago, SC Grizz said:

2. What is JJJ's foul rate per 36? All the per 36 stats in the world don't add up to much if he can't stay on the court.  

Thing is … all of the best defenders get in foul trouble.

Its kinda like a combo.

The difference is- he’s gotta pick his spots. He also has to stop the whole ‘hands on his head frowned up like he’s never committed any fouls pouty tantrum thing’

Once the narrative begins saying he’s a good defender - poof … fouls be gone (kinda… they will call them but in 50 50 situations- he will get more favorable  no calls).

 I usually bring up TA right here, but this past season Dillon took the next step with the reffs. He was allowed  to basically assault at will with only big ones getting called. 
 

He publicly declared that he wanted to guard the opponent’s biggest offensive threat  - every game. Then he went out there and did it. While taking his offensive game to the next level.

Gotta respect that.

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29 minutes ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

Thing is … all of the best defenders get in foul trouble.

Its kinda like a combo.

The difference is- he’s gotta pick his spots. He also has to stop the whole ‘hands on his head frowned up like he’s never committed any fouls pouty tantrum thing’

Once the narrative begins saying he’s a good defender - poof … fouls be gone (kinda… they will call them but in 50 50 situations- he will get more favorable  no calls).

 I usually bring up TA right here, but this past season Dillon took the next step with the reffs. He was allowed  to basically assault at will with only big ones getting called. 
 

He publicly declared that he wanted to guard the opponent’s biggest offensive threat  - every game. Then he went out there and did it. While taking his offensive game to the next level.

Gotta respect that.

In the last game I saw 2 things that stood out. 1) how JV played the pick and roll 

2) Jackson actually challenged with his hands up. 

He made a few dumb fouls in transition (2 or 3) that hurt him. IMHO he needs to focus on never ever fouling in transition and of course, keeping his hands up.

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5 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

Jaren also needs to work on his pick and pop game with Ja Morant.  Maybe it comes down to chemistry or synergy or timing or technique.  BUT, that is as much on Ja and the coaching staff as it is on Jaren.  

We just need to continue to add more firepower to complement the Ja/DB alpha backcourt, budding super sub Desmond Bane, and the 3J/JV big man bullpen.  We also have enough "toolsy" guys on the roster: Kyle, Melton, Tillman, BC, and Konchar.  Shop Tyus and Grayson, send Winslow a post card next Christmas, sign solid Moneyball BPA types, and draft over Porter/McDermott/Frazier (at the very least).

I did think about Jaren's screen setting ability. His screens are always just awkward. They did have moments of brilliance early when Jaren returned, and I think they'll be a lethal duo in time there. Once Jaren starts setting better screens, that duo becomes unguardable. You could have Ja either driving to the rim or if they go under, being able to hit the 3, and Jaren can be a force in the roll game with his athleticism for his size and is going to be one of the best pick and pop bigs in the league. 

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5 hours ago, SC Grizz said:

1. I would take JJJ over KP.

2. What is JJJ's foul rate per 36? All the per 36 stats in the world don't add up to much if he can't stay on the court.  

I hope JJJ take this offseason and puts in a ton of work. I hope he is pushing to be the 2nd option and a MAX contract guy because as of today today he is not.

 

I mean you aren't wrong, he does need to work on that no doubt. He has to cut out dumb fouls like on screen setting or boxing out, or frustration fouls/stopping fast breaks. He's going to have to play without fouling, but he's so disruptive on defense that he's going to be constantly in opportunities to pick up fouls. 

As for the max contract guy, they don't have a choice. His potential is that of a legitimate DPOY and legit first (or at worst second) option on offense. There's not many that can say that. The list is Giannis, AD, Joel Embiid. Now, he has a long way between now and that point, but no one around the team has ever questioned his work effort. 

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6 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

I did think about Jaren's screen setting ability. His screens are always just awkward. They did have moments of brilliance early when Jaren returned, and I think they'll be a lethal duo in time there. Once Jaren starts setting better screens, that duo becomes unguardable. You could have Ja either driving to the rim or if they go under, being able to hit the 3, and Jaren can be a force in the roll game with his athleticism for his size and is going to be one of the best pick and pop bigs in the league. 

Timing is one thing.  They also need to develop chemistry.

If we added more shooters then that would help space things out even better.  

I would also like a 7 foot lob threat in the dunker's spot if we go with twin towers lineups.  That way you can set a high pick and pop which frees up Jaren for 3, gives Ja an open runway then he can either drive/dish to open 3 point shooters or throw an alley-oop to the secondary big man.

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5 hours ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

Thing is … all of the best defenders get in foul trouble.

Its kinda like a combo.

The difference is- he’s gotta pick his spots. He also has to stop the whole ‘hands on his head frowned up like he’s never committed any fouls pouty tantrum thing’

Once the narrative begins saying he’s a good defender - poof … fouls be gone (kinda… they will call them but in 50 50 situations- he will get more favorable  no calls).

Naw, the best defenders are the best because they defend without fouling. If you look at guys like Simmons, Giannis, Capela or Gobert, they average around 2.5 -3 fouls per game for their career. Even look at the Grind father in his Memphis career was 2.5 fouls in 25 minutes. Jaren averages 4 FPG in just 26 minutes and fouls out per 36 minutes. Fouling is bad defense and gives away free points, Draymond doesn't do that.

For Brooks in particular to take the next step from above average to elite defender, he's going to have to cut his fouls back a bit. Some of that is gonna be ref help but the larger part has to be less bonehead plays. 

I'm less confident in Jaren fixing his fouling issues. People overrate his athleticism big time. He reaches in so much because he has bad footwork/lateral quickness/high center of gravity. Also how can he have 1st option offensive potential with that Mario fireball release? 

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13 minutes ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

I'm less confident in Jaren fixing his fouling issues. People overrate his athleticism big time. He reaches in so much because he has bad footwork/lateral quickness/high center of gravity. Also how can he have 1st option offensive potential with that Mario fireball release? 

I agree with you here.  He's an average athletic type who was further slowed by injuries.  Needs to work on the mental aspect of defense.  Quit chasing blocks.  Can't play an ultra-aggressive defense.  Just kinda sorta get in the way of what the other team is trying to do.  Then hands UP not OUT.  I would tell the kid, once you get beat don't chase blocks.  Chasing blocks in general is probably bad.  ... he ain't Gobert or Manute or Dikembe.  I always thought Shane Battier played textbook get-in-the-way, "prevent" defense with a combo of smarts/positioning/technique/footwork even though he was also an overrated athlete and fairly "slow".  Jaren is longer and a bit quicker and more explosive than Battier but he's a fairly slow-loading athlete.  Not even sure he is that much quicker than prime Marc Gasol laterally.  

Right now, Jaren is probably overly-aggressive on defense and overly-passive on offense.  He probably needs to switch that.  Amp up his aggression on offense and tamp down his aggression on defense.  He should probably be fined for blocking shots.  Reward him though for offensive rebounds and assists.  

I might send him to Kareem's house this summer.  Learn from KAJ.  Another odd ball and perhaps the WEIRDEST player in NBA history (this side of Dennis Rodman).  Work on sky hooks, snarky remarks to the media, appreciation for all things JAZZ....

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12 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Maybe but people in Dallas are trying to run Porzingis out of town right now and blaming him for the 1st round loss and to a lesser extent blaming Carlisle.

I may be wrong, but I think Chip's point is that even considering that, JJJ is not yet at Porzingis' level.

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2 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

I may be wrong, but I think Chip's point is that even considering that, JJJ is not yet at Porzingis' level.

Yep, understood. My original comment was I hope he doesn't turn into our KP. So in essence, I am agreeing that he isn't as good as KP yet. I'm just saying, I'm not sure if that is a sustainable productive way for a big to play in the NBA and fans are turning on KP. I don't want to see the same thing happen to JJJ. I don't want to see JJJ taking too many 3s and constantly injured like KP has been. Fans in Dallas are bringing out the torches and pitchforks looking for KP. I would hate to see that happen to JJJ in Memphis.

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7 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

 

As for the max contract guy, they don't have a choice. His potential is that of a legitimate DPOY and legit first (or at worst second) option on offense. There's not many that can say that. The list is Giannis, AD, Joel Embiid. Now, he has a long way between now and that point, but no one around the team has ever questioned his work effort. 

they wouldn’t. this is a very young team that believes in each other and I wouldn’t change that for the world. this team doesn’t have a savvy vet willing to use the media or rumor mill to call young players out. 
 

we just need to rely on our eyes. you said yourself- yea, he needs to work on this, that and yea...that too. if I’m in the fo, and a phone call comes in inquiring about jjj, I’m going to listen. I’m not giving up on jjj- I want him to mature and thrive in m, but I also have to start looking at what is and not what could be...

we once had a guy named stromile. had top 5 talent in the world- not a joke. it just never clicked for him. I’m not saying that’s jjj, but he has to start proving it himself. 
 

jjj needs to show this organization and city that he can learn from the past and put the work into his game in order to overcome some issues. work with a big on boxing out. proper footwork. not so much reaching but better positioning. improve core and lower body strength to take the box punishment. 
 

just if you ask me. 
 

slim. 

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14 hours ago, SC Grizz said:

1. I would take JJJ over KP.

2. What is JJJ's foul rate per 36? All the per 36 stats in the world don't add up to much if he can't stay on the court.  

I hope JJJ take this offseason and puts in a ton of work. I hope he is pushing to be the 2nd option and a MAX contract guy because as of today today he is not.

 

That is the major difference between JJJ and KP. Plus KP has been to an all-star game. 

Per 36 is a meaningless statistic if he can't stay on the court for 30 MPG. According to Basketball-Reference.com, JJJ's per 36 minutes fouls have ranged from 5.2 as a rookie to 5.1 his second season and went up to 5.9 last season. These numbers were based on games where JJJ's average minutes were 26.1, 28.5 and 23.5 last season. Until JJJ learns how to consistently play for 36 minutes let's consider this stat along the line of lies and **** lies. 

JJJ has never averaged 20 PER for a season. His numbers have been 16.43, 16.33 and this season 18.1. Comparing that to KP we find KP's PER is 20.4, 20.2 and 21.3. I don't hold a lot of stake in PER but since someone else brought it up I thought that people should see the comparison. 

I am not saying Memphis should trade JJJ for KP. I am just saying JJJ has to improve to reach the level of success KP has had. 

4 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

I may be wrong, but I think Chip's point is that even considering that, JJJ is not yet at Porzingis' level.

Bingo. I hope and pray he reaches a higher level but he needs to improve to reach the level of play that KP has routinely produced. 

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8 hours ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

Naw, the best defenders are the best because they defend without fouling. If you look at guys like Simmons, Giannis, Capela or Gobert, they average around 2.5 -3 fouls per game for their career. Even look at the Grind father in his Memphis career was 2.5 fouls in 25 minutes. Jaren averages 4 FPG in just 26 minutes and fouls out per 36 minutes. Fouling is bad defense and gives away free points, Draymond doesn't do that.

For Brooks in particular to take the next step from above average to elite defender, he's going to have to cut his fouls back a bit. Some of that is gonna be ref help but the larger part has to be less bonehead plays. 

I'm less confident in Jaren fixing his fouling issues. People overrate his athleticism big time. He reaches in so much because he has bad footwork/lateral quickness/high center of gravity. Also how can he have 1st option offensive potential with that Mario fireball release? 

Tony Allen admitted on Vernon show that he fouled a lot but got away with it due to reputation.   He said he was good at creating relationships with refs that was not antagonistic.    That was the point he wanted to make with the young grizz. All of the chirping and cusisng at the refs can have an affect on the calls you get.  

Brooks real next step is to figure out how to cultivate a better relationship with the refs. 

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