fanboyslim

There's an issue the coaches are not addressing

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If you have followed my comments about the coaching staff over the past two seasons you'll know I'm very tolerant of mistakes and recognize that the coaches are learning too. The mechanical substitution patterns, bad TO or challenge timing, poor play calling, all those are frustrating but in the end not critical flaws, and we can see some progress over time anyway, so I'm not terribly concerned. 

But you'll also know I have a recurrent mantra: "at some point,  it's a coaching issue". When a player is consistently making bad decisions and the coach doesn't take any corrective actions the result is the player not only doesn't learn from his mistakes, but he's also learning not to be accountable. Be it DB launching a thousand ill advised shots, Ja showboating when the game is on the line or JJJ making stupid fouls time and again, the coach's apparent indifference is harming their development, and that is a very serious issue.

I'm willing to accept that these mistakes can sometimes be addressed after the game. But when you see egregious behavior like JJJ taking himself out of the game with two intentional bad fouls and nobody in the bench even takes him aside to scold him I have to wonder if this coach isn't creating a culture of lack of accountability. And that's poison for a young team.

I hope I'm wrong. DB in particular seems to be maturing as a player as the season goes on. But I'm concerned and as far as this particular issue goes I'm putting Jenkins on notice.

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14 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

If you have followed my comments about the coaching staff over the past two seasons you'll know I'm very tolerant of mistakes and recognize that the coaches are learning too. The mechanical substitution patterns, bad TO or challenge timing, poor play calling, all those are frustrating but in the end not critical flaws, and we can see some progress over time anyway, so I'm not terribly concerned. 

But you'll also know I have a recurrent mantra: "at some point,  it's a coaching issue". When a player is consistently making bad decisions and the coach doesn't take any corrective actions the result is the player not only doesn't learn from his mistakes, but he's learning not to be accountable. Be it DB launching a thousand ill advised shots, Ja showboating when the game is in the line or JJJ making stupid fouls time and again, the coach's apparent indifference is harming their development, and that is a very serious issue.

I'm willing to accept that these mistakes can sometimes be addressed after the game. But when you see egregious behavior like JJJ taking himself out of the game with two intentional bad fouls and nobody in the bench even takes him aside to scold him I have to wonder if this coach isn't creating a culture of lack of accountability. And that's poison for a young team.

I hope I'm wrong. DB in particular seems to be maturing as a player as the season goes on. But I'm concerned and as far as this particular issue goes I'm putting Jenkins on notice.

Im not that big fan of Jenkins but he and Dillon watch a lot of film together. He also seems to make guys buy his mensage without loosing control on the sidelines. 

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Well the assistants needs to earn their keep as well instead of sitting there like the 4 stooges

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1 hour ago, fanboyslim said:

If you have followed my comments about the coaching staff over the past two seasons you'll know I'm very tolerant of mistakes and recognize that the coaches are learning too. The mechanical substitution patterns, bad TO or challenge timing, poor play calling, all those are frustrating but in the end not critical flaws, and we can see some progress over time anyway, so I'm not terribly concerned. 

But you'll also know I have a recurrent mantra: "at some point,  it's a coaching issue". When a player is consistently making bad decisions and the coach doesn't take any corrective actions the result is the player not only doesn't learn from his mistakes, but he's learning not to be accountable. Be it DB launching a thousand ill advised shots, Ja showboating when the game is in the line or JJJ making stupid fouls time and again, the coach's apparent indifference is harming their development, and that is a very serious issue.

I'm willing to accept that these mistakes can sometimes be addressed after the game. But when you see egregious behavior like JJJ taking himself out of the game with two intentional bad fouls and nobody in the bench even takes him aside to scold him I have to wonder if this coach isn't creating a culture of lack of accountability. And that's poison for a young team.

I hope I'm wrong. DB in particular seems to be maturing as a player as the season goes on. But I'm concerned and as far as this particular issue goes I'm putting Jenkins on notice.

And Joey is standing by to put Jenkins on "The List".

Agreed, guys should not repeating the same mistakes. That's on the coaches. That's like the definition of insanity, i.e. doing the same (wrong) thing over and over and expecting a different result.

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Morant with 6 turnovers to keep a team with four starters out, in the game to the very end?

Yeah, stuff like that.

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1 hour ago, fanboyslim said:

If you have followed my comments about the coaching staff over the past two seasons you'll know I'm very tolerant of mistakes and recognize that the coaches are learning too. The mechanical substitution patterns, bad TO or challenge timing, poor play calling, all those are frustrating but in the end not critical flaws, and we can see some progress over time anyway, so I'm not terribly concerned. 

But you'll also know I have a recurrent mantra: "at some point,  it's a coaching issue". When a player is consistently making bad decisions and the coach doesn't take any corrective actions the result is the player not only doesn't learn from his mistakes, but he's learning not to be accountable. Be it DB launching a thousand ill advised shots, Ja showboating when the game is in the line or JJJ making stupid fouls time and again, the coach's apparent indifference is harming their development, and that is a very serious issue.

I'm willing to accept that these mistakes can sometimes be addressed after the game. But when you see egregious behavior like JJJ taking himself out of the game with two intentional bad fouls and nobody in the bench even takes him aside to scold him I have to wonder if this coach isn't creating a culture of lack of accountability. And that's poison for a young team.

I hope I'm wrong. DB in particular seems to be maturing as a player as the season goes on. But I'm concerned and as far as this particular issue goes I'm putting Jenkins on notice.

 

100%. I have mentioned that Ja might be a little in his head with the hype. People say that he's humble but I don't see it. Whatever he's allowed to have his fun. The bigger worry for me is that he genuinely takes NO pride in his defence. He seems to be OK with letting someone score on him. Real A1 alphas like MJ or the Mamba would score on you And shut you down to shut you up. You can't be talking if you're letting ppl score on you with ease. Players just don't respect that no matter how good not yet great your offense is. Jaren with his mindless fouls with no one seemingly addressing the issue is mind-boggling. He is exposed as a low BBIQ guy with some of the really dumb fouls he commits. Those last two against Sactown was Thabeet style dumb. One when the guy was clearly ahead past you, you let him go. Instead his weak attempt gives up the And1. The next a soft frustration reach because you could not get the offensive board? Just losing plays. 

Shout out to DB he really has turned a corner and is much more under control and willing passer. 

You are so on point with this post. All agreed good points 

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Just to be clear, I think the head coach and the rest of the coaching staff have been net positives so far. I don't want to gve the impression that they are a problem, only that they have a problem that needs to be tackled and which, unlike their other problems, may have an impact in the long term development of our young guys.

Also, I'm not asking that Jenkins brings out his inner Hollins and pulls JJJ out every time he reaches for a public dressing down on the sideline. Just that he makes the players aware of what they're doing wrong right away and makes them accountable for fixing it. Young basketball players are like puppies in that regard, you need to stick their noses into their messes in a matter of seconds or they won't learn the lesson.

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49 minutes ago, King Dork said:

I like what the coaching staff is doing. I’ll exit this thread now. 

I don't know if you read the whole post or just the title, because I don't know how this follows from what I posted. Unless you mean you are 100% ok with what the coaching staff is doing in which case, well, agree to disagree.

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26 minutes ago, FrenchGrizzlies said:

Let them improving next yeaqr as will do the team. Year number 4, if they are not where we shoud be, then for sure, coaching could be the issue...

I'm starting to think I need to change the thread title because half the posters are missing the point. We don't have a coaching issue (i.e. our coach is the problem), we have one coaching issue (i.e. the coach has one problem).

Yeah, I'm going to change that.

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36 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

I don't know if you read the whole post or just the title, because I don't know how this follows from what I posted. Unless you mean you are 100% ok with what the coaching staff is doing in which case, well, agree to disagree.

I 1000% agree with anything the coaching staff does. They took a team with talent that was supposed to yield a near bottom of the west win total to the possible 8 seed...2 years in a row. They’ve navigated the most condensed schedule in playoff history to a possible playoff birth. 
 

Just through my life I tend to be a results oriented person, I don’t nitpick the smaller details when the total picture is a masterpiece. Considering where this team is supposed to be consistently and where they end up being consistently it’s looks very masterpieceish to me.  
 

I certainly won’t nitpick them for a dude’s play, when he’s been back less than a month.  Or how they allow us as fans to see them coaching that player, because we Definitely don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. 

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9 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

If you have followed my comments about the coaching staff over the past two seasons you'll know I'm very tolerant of mistakes and recognize that the coaches are learning too. The mechanical substitution patterns, bad TO or challenge timing, poor play calling, all those are frustrating but in the end not critical flaws, and we can see some progress over time anyway, so I'm not terribly concerned. 

But you'll also know I have a recurrent mantra: "at some point,  it's a coaching issue". When a player is consistently making bad decisions and the coach doesn't take any corrective actions the result is the player not only doesn't learn from his mistakes, but he's also learning not to be accountable. Be it DB launching a thousand ill advised shots, Ja showboating when the game is on the line or JJJ making stupid fouls time and again, the coach's apparent indifference is harming their development, and that is a very serious issue.

I'm willing to accept that these mistakes can sometimes be addressed after the game. But when you see egregious behavior like JJJ taking himself out of the game with two intentional bad fouls and nobody in the bench even takes him aside to scold him I have to wonder if this coach isn't creating a culture of lack of accountability. And that's poison for a young team.

I hope I'm wrong. DB in particular seems to be maturing as a player as the season goes on. But I'm concerned and as far as this particular issue goes I'm putting Jenkins on notice.

Quite honestly, I'm not sure how much of that is on Jenkins. I think this front office has a bigger stamp on this team on the court that most fans realize. I think Jenkins decisions are limited and he gets frustrated at times. I think a lot of this is the front office letting guys develop.

I get the feeling next year will be totally different. I think last year and this year were basically throw away years where we basically overachieved but next year is the year they will be "serious" about winning.

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2 hours ago, King Dork said:

I 1000% agree with anything the coaching staff does. They took a team with talent that was supposed to yield a near bottom of the west win total to the possible 8 seed...2 years in a row. They’ve navigated the most condensed schedule in playoff history to a possible playoff birth. 
 

Just through my life I tend to be a results oriented person, I don’t nitpick the smaller details when the total picture is a masterpiece. Considering where this team is supposed to be consistently and where they end up being consistently it’s looks very masterpieceish to me.  
 

I certainly won’t nitpick them for a dude’s play, when he’s been back less than a month.  Or how they allow us as fans to see them coaching that player, because we Definitely don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. 

Fair enough. I admit there may be coaching going on behind the scenes that will bring results in the long term. Dillon's improvement in that regard may be in good part due to addressing his flaws in practice and video sessions.

I simply think some of these accountability issues need to be handled right away for the rest of the team to see. Not us, though, so if the coaches are doing this in a way we don't notice more power to them.

I'm skeptical though.

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8 hours ago, GameOn said:

And Joey is standing by to put Jenkins on "The List".

Agreed, guys should not repeating the same mistakes. That's on the coaches. That's like the definition of insanity, i.e. doing the same (wrong) thing over and over and expecting a different result.

See the source image

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1 minute ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Quite honestly, I'm not sure how much of that is on Jenkins. I think this front office has a bigger stamp on this team on the court that most fans realize. I think Jenkins decisions are limited and he gets frustrated at times. I think a lot of this is the front office letting guys develop.

I get the feeling next year will be totally different. I think last year and this year were basically throw away years where we basically overachieved but next year is the year they will be "serious" about winning.

This will also be the first offseason since we drafted Ja that we have the full Ja/DB/Kyle/Jaren/JV core all healthy. We've been unburdened by expectations so far, but will be interesting to see how we react when we should be a playoff team. The West is notoriously tough every year. Don't see us jumping the Suns/Jazz/Nuggets/Clippers/Lakers/Warriors (healthy Klay) unless we make a big trade/signing this offseason - that leaves 2 playoff spots for the Mavs/Blazers/us and the possibility of improving Timberwolves/Pelicans/Kings teams.

Which year are we again in the New 3YP? ;) 

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2 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Quite honestly, I'm not sure how much of that is on Jenkins. I think this front office has a bigger stamp on this team on the court that most fans realize. I think Jenkins decisions are limited and he gets frustrated at times. I think a lot of this is the front office letting guys develop.

I get the feeling next year will be totally different. I think last year and this year were basically throw away years where we basically overachieved but next year is the year they will be "serious" about winning.

That's a very good point and I've also been consistently saying the FO is probably behind many of the coaches' decisions. Precisely because these are throwaway seasons they can afford to force strategic guidelines that may sometimes run counter to winning the game at hand. And I agree with that approach. I may gripe about baffling lineups but I recognize there's a larger plan in action.

But I doubt there's a directive coming from the FO to keep the coaches from giving players a come to Jesus moment every now and then.

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Just now, ACGrizz said:

This will also be the first offseason since we drafted Ja that we have the full Ja/DB/Kyle/Jaren/JV core all healthy. We've been unburdened by expectations so far, but will be interesting to see how we react when we should be a playoff team. The West is notoriously tough every year. Don't see us jumping the Suns/Jazz/Nuggets/Clippers/Lakers/Warriors (healthy Klay) unless we make a big trade/signing this offseason - that leaves 2 playoff spots for the Mavs/Blazers/us and the possibility of improving Timberwolves/Pelicans/Kings teams.

Which year are we again in the New 3YP? ;) 

This would be year 2, and we never performed as well in years 1 and 2 of the previous 3YP.

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Im not sure I give Jaren an easy pass on his play and behavior.  I get that he is super athletic, young and could be an incredible talent.  But Jaren "doesn't appear to understand" that this is the time of season where team comes first.  Everybody talks about the attitude and edge that JV and DB are bringng and Ja is just Ja being super human.  Jarens needs to buy into the team, and stop being a guy that is taking energy on the floor away by his constant whining about his fouls...he needs an attitude adjustment..this is not about him, buy into it jaren...your a good kid cmon

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1 hour ago, ACGrizz said:

This will also be the first offseason since we drafted Ja that we have the full Ja/DB/Kyle/Jaren/JV core all healthy. We've been unburdened by expectations so far, but will be interesting to see how we react when we should be a playoff team. The West is notoriously tough every year. Don't see us jumping the Suns/Jazz/Nuggets/Clippers/Lakers/Warriors (healthy Klay) unless we make a big trade/signing this offseason - that leaves 2 playoff spots for the Mavs/Blazers/us and the possibility of improving Timberwolves/Pelicans/Kings teams.

Which year are we again in the New 3YP? ;) 

Well, Zach Kleiman started in April 2019 so I think the 2019-20 season was year 1, 2020-21 is year 2 and next year is year 3 which is the bridge to being a consistent playoff contender.

1 hour ago, fanboyslim said:

That's a very good point and I've also been consistently saying the FO is probably behind many of the coaches' decisions. Precisely because these are throwaway seasons they can afford to force strategic guidelines that may sometimes run counter to winning the game at hand. And I agree with that approach. I may gripe about baffling lineups but I recognize there's a larger plan in action.

But I doubt there's a directive coming from the FO to keep the coaches from giving players a come to Jesus moment every now and then.

Probably not but I do think the F.O. is involving themselves more than the average fan realizes.  also think the directive may be to give certain players freedom just in case they become a trade piece later. At least they were able to "do their thing" out there to put themselves on display. JJJ is a cornerstone for the franchise. I doubt if the coach wants to challenge him. Not to mention, they may treat this younger generation differently as well.

1 hour ago, fanboyslim said:

This would be year 2, and we never performed as well in years 1 and 2 of the previous 3YP.

Agreed

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1 hour ago, Lugan Village said:

Im not sure I give Jaren an easy pass on his play and behavior.  I get that he is super athletic, young and could be an incredible talent.  But Jaren "doesn't appear to understand" that this is the time of season where team comes first.  Everybody talks about the attitude and edge that JV and DB are bringng and Ja is just Ja being super human.  Jarens needs to buy into the team, and stop being a guy that is taking energy on the floor away by his constant whining about his fouls...he needs an attitude adjustment..this is not about him, buy into it jaren...your a good kid cmon

I haven't seen the last few games so there may be something that I am missing but typically, especially on rebuilding teams, when the shots go in, that person is a hero, if they don't, he's a selfish so and so that doesn't play for the team. If his shot starts falling, people will be fine but the dumb fouls are inexcusable. Ja has been out of control at times this season and the t.o.'s can pile up with him.

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9 hours ago, Teddy.B said:

One when the guy was clearly ahead past you, you let him go. Instead his weak attempt gives up the And1. The next a soft frustration reach because you could not get the offensive board? Just losing plays. 

I'll stop here because these were the most recent.

I am not sure how we can blame coach for these though.

Last night I saw him head to the bench after a 'why would you foul HERE???' moment.

13 is a big boy. He has access to countless NBA veterans that can share their knowledge with him.

Tony Allen is still around ... he could get some pointers without even leaving the locker room from Dillon. I even remember KG publicly stating that he'd work with him.

A guy his height, with his skill set, has no real excuse for repeatedly making such poor EMOTIONAL decisions on the court.

 

 

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jjj's 2 quick fouls last night were inexcusable. 

I have said the same about our coach. like him a lot, but there is a time when even a players' coach must hold his players accountable.

 

slim. 

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15 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Not to mention, they may treat this younger generation differently as well.

I have heard this too...and I think it holds alot of weight .

 

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2 minutes ago, memphis slim said:

jjj's 2 quick fouls last night were inexcusable. 

I have said the same about our coach. like him a lot, but there is a time when even a players' coach must hold his players accountable.

 

slim. 

We have typed circles around the board making excuses for the poor decisions / terrible fouls and I don't see even a small growth. 

Move your feet.

Get your arms up - vertically - keep them there.

STOP REACHING! (this one would resolve itself by ... uhhh... MOVING YOUR FEET!

Positional defense is a thing... a thing that's being rewarded by the referees.

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