I❤️JV

Pretend you're Grizz GM

Pretend you're Grizz GM  

19 members have voted

  1. 1. Jarens agent is asking for an extension in the offseason....YOU as GM

    • Give Jaren the MAX
    • Agree to a team friendly discount 100/4
    • Putting your foot down ...no more than 80/4
    • Offer nothing and wait for RFA


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12 minutes ago, memphis slim said:

to me, it seemed jjj went into the turtle shell after his shot got swatted at the rim. just felt like to me that his performance was defined by before and after that moment of the game. 
 

I realize his trying to find his rhythm on the court, but he has to be tougher than that. this is the nba. x gonna give it to you on occasion. 
 

man up. 
 

slim. 

Jaren was soft...Jaren is soft....Jaren will be soft....accept it...Jaren is as soft as charmin 

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I did a little digging to see what exactly we are talking about when we throw away terms like Max Contract. 

Let me say right now I don't believe Jaren is worth a max deal no matter how much or how little that is but we should all be talking about the same numbers and it's effect on the team's salary cap. 

I found this article which is what I am using for discussion. If someone knows a different or better one we can adjust the conversation to reflect that but this seems to be accurate to me. According to the article the max contract for a player under 6 years in the league (basically rookie contract) for the 2021-22 season is $33,833,400 with annual raises of 8% a year.

If Jaren chose his rookie contract and sign with a different team his max payout would be only $31,377,750 with 5% annual raises. That doesn't factor in potential impact from state income taxes either. Most NBA teams operate in state's with state income taxes. 

No one knows yet what the salary cap is going to look like in 2023-24 so we are guessing on what impact a max deal would have on the team's payroll overall at today's rate it would be just over 30% of the team's salary cap number. That is knowing Ja Morant is coming up the next season so the team would be looking at over 60% of their salary cap number between those two players. 

So how comfortable do people feel offering Jaren that much money this summer? 

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10 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I did a little digging to see what exactly we are talking about when we throw away terms like Max Contract. 

Let me say right now I don't believe Jaren is worth a max deal no matter how much or how little that is but we should all be talking about the same numbers and it's effect on the team's salary cap. 

I found this article which is what I am using for discussion. If someone knows a different or better one we can adjust the conversation to reflect that but this seems to be accurate to me. According to the article the max contract for a player under 6 years in the league (basically rookie contract) for the 2021-22 season is $33,833,400 with annual raises of 8% a year.

If Jaren chose his rookie contract and sign with a different team his max payout would be only $31,377,750 with 5% annual raises. That doesn't factor in potential impact from state income taxes either. Most NBA teams operate in state's with state income taxes. 

No one knows yet what the salary cap is going to look like in 2023-24 so we are guessing on what impact a max deal would have on the team's payroll overall at today's rate it would be just over 30% of the team's salary cap number. That is knowing Ja Morant is coming up the next season so the team would be looking at over 60% of their salary cap number between those two players. 

So how comfortable do people feel offering Jaren that much money this summer? 

Rookie Max is 25% of the cap with Rose rule can be up to 30%

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Jaren is not where near his prime physically or skill wise.Dude is super raw and we have seem this before it took Conley 4 good years to get going.

Giving up on him this early just to be the 8th or 7th seat is not worth it.

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8 minutes ago, I❤️JV said:

Rookie Max is 25% of the cap with Rose rule can be up to 30%

What happens if you sign a player to an extension then the salary cap goes lower before the extension kicks in? Would he get less money based off of the salary cap number or would he get what was legal at the time but illegal when the contract actually started? 

This is the problem the team faces extending a max offer to Jaren this summer. League revenues are way down and this will create a problem for players who were signed under the impression league caps would rise not fall wouldn't it? 

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if ja is worth 30% of my bucket of payroll money, I would say that jjj is max 20% in my world.

again, if im in the fo, I have a decent feel for what jjj and a picked up winslow might be worth this summer.

cold? maybe, but you can bet I would have a good feel for what he could fetch..

30% ja and 20% jjj for me.

 

slim.

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8 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

What happens if you sign a player to an extension then the salary cap goes lower before the extension kicks in? Would he get less money based off of the salary cap number or would he get what was legal at the time but illegal when the contract actually started? 

This is the problem the team faces extending a max offer to Jaren this summer. League revenues are way down and this will create a problem for players who were signed under the impression league caps would rise not fall wouldn't it? 

If we give Jaren Max Contract extension it means he will get 25% of the 22-23 cap...if cap is lower he'll get less....unless Rose rule involved (MVP DPOY or ALL NBA) he can get up to 30% of the 22-23 cap...

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7 minutes ago, memphis slim said:

if ja is worth 30% of my bucket of payroll money, I would say that jjj is max 20% in my world.

again, if im in the fo, I have a decent feel for what jjj and a picked up winslow might be worth this summer.

cold? maybe, but you can bet I would have a good feel for what he could fetch..

30% ja and 20% jjj for me.

 

slim.

Not how it works...we can't pay Ja more than 25% unless he makes All NBA team...If he makes ALL NBA we can pay 30% max

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2 hours ago, memphis slim said:

if ja is worth 30% of my bucket of payroll money, I would say that jjj is max 20% in my world.

again, if im in the fo, I have a decent feel for what a picked up and winslow might be worth this summer.

cold? maybe, but you can bet I would have a good feel for what he could fetch..

30% ja and 20% jjj for me.

 

slim.

Ja will almost certainly be at the rookie 25% extension. Rose rule is there that allows teams to sign their young stars at up to 30% of the cap, but Ja so far not close to hitting any of the requirements. https://www.si.com/nba/2019/01/28/anthony-davis-trade-rumors-pelicans-derrick-rose-rule-explained-designated-player

"When a player was eligible for his rookie extension, teams were allowed to offer the player up to 30% of the salary cap for a single season as the max contract if the player had been voted an All-Star starter twice, made an All-NBA team twice or won the league MVP. Prior to this, teams could not offer more than 25% of the salary cap on an extension to a player with so few years of service in the league. The rule was slightly adjusted with the most recent CBA so that a player is eligible if he makes an All-NBA team or wins Defensive Player of the Year in the season preceding the first season on the extension or in any two of the three seasons preceding the extension, or if the player wins MVP in any of the three seasons preceding the extension.

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thanks for the clarity guys. nba contracts not my specialty..

my point is simple.

if I have 100 coins for payroll and Im giving ja 30 coins...my max I'd be willing to give jjj is 20. 

 

slim.

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21 minutes ago, costarica2 said:

Jaren is not where near his prime physically or skill wise.Dude is super raw and we have seem this before it took Conley 4 good years to get going.

Giving up on him this early just to be the 8th or 7th seat is not worth it.

Finally a logical post in this thread

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

I did a little digging to see what exactly we are talking about when we throw away terms like Max Contract. 

Let me say right now I don't believe Jaren is worth a max deal no matter how much or how little that is but we should all be talking about the same numbers and it's effect on the team's salary cap. 

I found this article which is what I am using for discussion. If someone knows a different or better one we can adjust the conversation to reflect that but this seems to be accurate to me. According to the article the max contract for a player under 6 years in the league (basically rookie contract) for the 2021-22 season is $33,833,400 with annual raises of 8% a year.

If Jaren chose his rookie contract and sign with a different team his max payout would be only $31,377,750 with 5% annual raises. That doesn't factor in potential impact from state income taxes either. Most NBA teams operate in state's with state income taxes. 

No one knows yet what the salary cap is going to look like in 2023-24 so we are guessing on what impact a max deal would have on the team's payroll overall at today's rate it would be just over 30% of the team's salary cap number. That is knowing Ja Morant is coming up the next season so the team would be looking at over 60% of their salary cap number between those two players. 

So how comfortable do people feel offering Jaren that much money this summer? 

I could make arguments for either side, but 60% (OK, 50% then) of the cap is manageable if they continue to draft well and make good decisions with the rest of the roster. They can still go over the cap to re-sign their own free agents and they still would have the MLE to work with if they stay under the luxury tax. Obviously if they can get him to agree to a more team friendly deal that would be a win for the team,

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Just now, KyleB said:

I could make arguments for either side, but 60% of the cap is manageable if they continue to draft well and make good decisions with the rest of the roster. Obviously if they can get him to agree to a more team friendly deal that would be a win for the team,

Wouldn't you agree a prime method of managing the cap is not to spend big money on unproven players? 

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1 minute ago, chipc3 said:

Wouldn't you agree a prime method of managing the cap is not to spend big money on unproven players? 

Sometimes it takes big risks to get big rewards. 

 

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1 minute ago, KyleB said:

Sometimes it takes big risks to get big rewards. 

Spoken like someone who will be first in line to criticize if the risk doesn't pay off. 

Any max contract is a risk in the NBA. The player can get hurt playing for their national team (Paul George and Pau Gasol), could have a serious injury during a game (Klay Thompson), etc. That is a calculated risk inherent with any guaranteed contract. 

To offer a max deal to a player before his contract is up, who hasn't played even half of the games he could in three seasons is more than a calculated risk. It is a dangerous risk. 

Steph Curry suffered with injuries early in his career. His second contract paid him $11 million a season. He wasn't even close to a max deal. I believe people would say the Warriors have managed their cap well. Why not use them as an example? 

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13 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Spoken like someone who will be first in line to criticize if the risk doesn't pay off. 

Any max contract is a risk in the NBA. The player can get hurt playing for their national team (Paul George and Pau Gasol), could have a serious injury during a game (Klay Thompson), etc. That is a calculated risk inherent with any guaranteed contract. 

To offer a max deal to a player before his contract is up, who hasn't played even half of the games he could in three seasons is more than a calculated risk. It is a dangerous risk. 

Steph Curry suffered with injuries early in his career. His second contract paid him $11 million a season. He wasn't even close to a max deal. I believe people would say the Warriors have managed their cap well. Why not use them as an example? 

Obviously if they can navigate contract negotiations in a way that will 1) lock up Jaren long term 2) not offend him or other players on the team and create bad will within the organization - with a less than max but potentially fair deal - then they should do that.

My point is that between not signing him at all and signing him to a max - I'm taking the max.

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16 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Spoken like someone who will be first in line to criticize if the risk doesn't pay off. 

Any max contract is a risk in the NBA. The player can get hurt playing for their national team (Paul George and Pau Gasol), could have a serious injury during a game (Klay Thompson), etc. That is a calculated risk inherent with any guaranteed contract. 

To offer a max deal to a player before his contract is up, who hasn't played even half of the games he could in three seasons is more than a calculated risk. It is a dangerous risk. 

Steph Curry suffered with injuries early in his career. His second contract paid him $11 million a season. He wasn't even close to a max deal. I believe people would say the Warriors have managed their cap well. Why not use them as an example? 

I would love for the Grizzlies to sign Jaren to an extension at a starting salary of around 15.5% of the cap, but it will never happen no matter how bad you or I or anyone else wants it. If that is your expectation you are living in fantasyland.

Curry had 2 ankle surgeries within around a year of each other. Jaren had a thigh bruise in a season we were tanking and had nothing to play for and then a meniscus tear that they have been overly cautious with because they see the long term potential he has.

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12 minutes ago, srmjr23 said:

Obviously if they can navigate contract negotiations in a way that will 1) lock up Jaren long term 2) not offend him or other players on the team and create bad will within the organization - with a less than max but potentially fair deal - then they should do that.

My point is that between not signing him at all and signing him to a max - I'm taking the max.

I understand. I believe there is a wide range in between not signing him at all and offering him the max. My position  was and is that the team doesn't have to cave in on his demand for the max. If it's between the max and nothing then this summer I say nothing. 

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12 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I understand. I believe there is a wide range in between not signing him at all and offering him the max. My position  was and is that the team doesn't have to cave in on his demand for the max. If it's between the max and nothing then this summer I say nothing. 

I want to say nothing as well...he could be next KD...but it's like 5%....more likely than not 3J is probably rich man's Myles Turner. 

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17 minutes ago, KyleB said:

I would love for the Grizzlies to sign Jaren to an extension at a starting salary of around 15.5% of the cap, but it will never happen no matter how bad you or I or anyone else wants it. If that is your expectation you are living in fantasyland.

Curry had 2 ankle surgeries within around a year of each other. Jaren had a thigh bruise in a season we were tanking and had nothing to play for and then a meniscus tear that they have been overly cautious with because they see the long term potential he has.

I agree that Curry had surgeries on his ankle. The first to repair a tendon injury suffered in his second season and a subsequent on in 2012 where the doctor made the following comments. 

Quote

Arthroscopic surgery on Stephen Curry’s troublesome right ankle Wednesday “revealed a stable ankle with no structural damage.” The Warriors said the operation performed by Dr. Richard Ferkel in Southern California “consisted of cleaning out loose debris and scar tissue” and deemed the operation “successful.”

Curry played in 80 games his first season. He played in 74 games his second season despite having the surgery. The third season he played in only 26 games. So out of a potential 266 games his first three seasons Curry played in 180 games when he signed his extension. 

Jackson has played in 56, 57 and if he plays the rest of the games (highly unlikely with the grizzlies having 8 games including 2 back to backs in the next 14 days) he will play in 14 this season. That's 127 games out of a possible 236 games. I may be wrong but it would be a far larger risk to sign Jackson to a max deal right now than it would have been for the Warriors who had already traded Monte Ellis and given the team over to Curry.

To me the Grizzlies should offer a respectable but far less than max 5 year offer to Jackson while giving him a player's option to get out after the fourth season so he would be a restricted free agent and the team could match any offer he receives if they so choose. 

But I'm not in the front office so what do I know?

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10 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

To me the Grizzlies should offer a respectable but far less than max 5 year offer to Jackson while giving him a player's option to get out after the fourth season so he would be a restricted free agent and the team could match any offer he receives if they so choose. 

For what its worth, I voted for the second option in the poll. So we don't really disagree that much. After doing the math, based on current projections on what the cap will be when Jaren's hypothetical extension would kick in, a 2nd contract equivalent to what Curry got would start at around 17 or 18 million (around 15.5 % of the cap), so with 8% raises it would average around 20 million per year which I think would be a fair offer. So maybe it does happen after all. But if they offer him 11 million then be prepared to watch him in a Knick uniform as the local JV fanboy would say.

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3 minutes ago, KyleB said:

For what its worth, I voted for the second option in the poll. So we don't really disagree that much. After doing the math, based on current projections on what the cap will be when Jaren's hypothetical extension would kick in, a 2nd contract equivalent to what Curry got would start at around 17 or 18 million (around 15.5 % of the cap), so with 8% raises it would average around 20 million per year which I think would be a fair offer. So maybe it does happen after all. But if they offer him 11 million then be prepared to watch him in a Knick uniform as the local JV fanboy would say.

I seem to remember one player getting a max extension and then demanding a trade the very next season. I got used to seeing him in a Lakers uniform. I think I will survive seeing JJJ in a Knicks uniform if it comes down to max or nothing. Remember, the Grizzlies are under no obligation to pay him anything and they can match any deal he is offered as a RFA. We are talking about him refusing any deal but a max deal this summer despite missing nearly half of the games the team played and not looking that great so far this season. Things may look different a year from now but the team can resign him then if they are so inclined. 

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8 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I seem to remember one player getting a max extension and then demanding a trade the very next season. I got used to seeing him in a Lakers uniform. I think I will survive seeing JJJ in a Knicks uniform if it comes down to max or nothing. Remember, the Grizzlies are under no obligation to pay him anything and they can match any deal he is offered as a RFA. We are talking about him refusing any deal but a max deal this summer despite missing nearly half of the games the team played and not looking that great so far this season. Things may look different a year from now but the team can resign him then if they are so inclined. 

Has his camp given any indication that he would refuse anything but a max deal? If not then this thread is nothing but one big circle-jerk started by someone who has an anti-JJJ agenda..

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1 minute ago, KyleB said:

Has his camp given any indication that he would refuse anything but a max deal? If not then this thread is nothing but one big circle-jerk started by someone who has an anti-JJJ agenda..

This thread is asking what you would do as a GM. It is not pretending to be stating what JJJ and his camp are asking for outside of asking for an extension. 

As the GM I would not give JJJ more than an average of $20 million per season over 5 years, give him a player's option out after the 4th season so he can more quickly test the FA waters while the team maintains the right of first refusal. 

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30 minutes ago, KyleB said:

For what its worth, I voted for the second option in the poll. So we don't really disagree that much. After doing the math, based on current projections on what the cap will be when Jaren's hypothetical extension would kick in, a 2nd contract equivalent to what Curry got would start at around 17 or 18 million (around 15.5 % of the cap), so with 8% raises it would average around 20 million per year which I think would be a fair offer. So maybe it does happen after all. But if they offer him 11 million then be prepared to watch him in a Knick uniform as the local JV fanboy would say.

This conversation is all just our opinions, since we aren't privy to the negotiations.

But, having said that, there is just no way, imo, Jaren accepts a long term deal starting at $17 or $18M. These guys want to get paid like their pier group. Jaren sees Bam and Donovan and Tatum and De'Aaron Fox getting max extensions from the '17 draft class last November. He is just not going to take half of that. 

And Steph Curry signing for 4 years / $44M in October of 2012 is ancient history, has nothing to do with anything. But, if anything, Jaren's camp would use it as an argument for not signing cheap just because of injury. (The salary cap was only $58M in '12-'13, and obviously it was a different CBA. Steph's 4 year max was only for $61M at the time, so Golden State was only $5M per year under. Really wasn't that amazing a deal until the new TV contract doubled the cap.)  https://theathletic.com/142451/2017/10/31/thompson-five-years-ago-steph-curry-signed-the-contract-that-set-up-a-dynasty/

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