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GrizzTigerFan

Defense is the Key

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What this shows is that a team that starts Ja and Jonas MUST be strong defensively at the other positions.   Ja and Jonas are gifted offensive players but are mostly huge negatives on defense.   We aren't and will never be the Brooklyn Nets so defense is really important to our development as a contender.    There isn't much historic precedence for Ja ever becoming a decent defender and Jonas is what he is.   However, Jonas will not determine the fate of the franchise going forward that will be Ja.    Basically Ja and Jonas offensive explosions mean nothing if we aren't playing good defense.   Ja MUST always be paired with a good defender in the backcourt.    Grayson Allen and Bane (right now) are not that.    

Going after a Bradley Beal or Zach Lavine sounds nice but will not elevate us to championship status if we do not have a staunch defense too.    From all the advance stats and eyetest here are the best defenders currently on the roster

  • Melton
  • Winslow
  • Tillman
  • Jaren
  • Anderson
  • Brooks
  • Bane (numbers like him)

BC really concerns me.  He hasn't been really good on either offense or defense consistently all season.   Also regularly missing games too.   Tillman looks like the player that is more important to wins IMHO.  However, i know FO is fully invested in him.  He needs to really work on developing a 3pt shot or i don't see much use for an undersized rim running 4 that isn't a rebounding best (ala Manimal).    His wingspan and size puts a cap on him as a Frontcourt defender.  

Winslow is aggravating because his defense and size is ideal for the rotation but his health and offense makes if foolish to fully invest in him.     We need another 6'6+ 3D wing and those don't grow on trees. 

Don't get me wrong i still think we need a  dynamic iso player but i don't think we need to overvalue our offensive only players.   Never forget the Grizz WCF team was a top defensive squad.    We just need better balance and if Ja and Jonas are going to be huge parts of rotation (duh) then the role players need to be able to defend.     Grayson needs to be a specialist not a starter.   No more Tyus + Ja backcourts.    More Melton!    We need another 3D wing.

 

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what numbers and what eyes are you using to keep saying say that bane is a good or potentially good defender?  you've said this about him numerous times but eye test and numbers don't favor him at all.  he's got a worse DBPM, DRPM, DRTG, net rating, net RPM, VORP, and WS than both melton and allen.  if anything, melton and allen should be eating some of his minutes until he comes along more into next year and beyond depending on team makeup at that point.

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7 minutes ago, grizz09 said:

what numbers and what eyes are you using to keep saying say that bane is a good or potentially good defender?  you've said this about him numerous times but eye test and numbers don't favor him at all.  he's got a worse DBPM, DRPM, DRTG, net rating, net RPM, VORP, and WS than both melton and allen.  if anything, melton and allen should be eating some of his minutes until he comes along more into next year and beyond depending on team makeup at that point.

Allen is bad on defense.  Bane was a known good defender in college and has shown he can play well individually.  Bane biggest issue is keeping up with the scheme.     Allen is an inconsistent offensive player with below average defense.    There are too many games that have shown this.    I know you love Grayson but it is what it is.   And a 30pt game against the combined defense of Trae Young and Lou Williams isn't gonna change those facts.   His best outcome is 3pt specialists because he can and is a willing shooter.   That is a good thing. 

Based off of ALL metrics Melton should be starting in his place.   Bane has more upside but can play backup 3 if needed.  I am not against Grayson being backup SG.  

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I think Tillman will follow the path of similarly sized JaM Green who has turned himself into a 40% 3 pt threat and is a solid role player on good teams.  Backup 4/5 for 10-12 would be a solid career, and I'd be fine with him there, if he improves on corner Ds and his defense.

The FO logic for picking up a defender like Winslow makes sense.  Right now, if they feel he has a work ethic that can boost his 3 point %, he will be returning.  If they feel his lack of work ethic is what is the reason for the injuries and the poor shooting he's gone.

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I want to see how Tillman and JJJ look together, I think Tillman may be a better partner for JJJ than Clarke for the times when JV is subbed out for defensive purposes. Tillman is more physical and a better rebounder than Clarke and a better pick and roll and perimeter defender than JV.

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23 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

I think Tillman will follow the path of similarly sized JaM Green who has turned himself into a 40% 3 pt threat and is a solid role player on good teams.  Backup 4/5 for 10-12 would be a solid career, and I'd be fine with him there, if he improves on corner Ds and his defense.

The FO logic for picking up a defender like Winslow makes sense.  Right now, if they feel he has a work ethic that can boost his 3 point %, he will be returning.  If they feel his lack of work ethic is what is the reason for the injuries and the poor shooting he's gone.

exactly!   Tillman has "glue guy role player" written all over him.   If he improves his 3pt shot then it will be very difficult to justify playing BC over him. 

I am beginning to think Winslow has a very low pain threshold.  Meaning that he will sit out longer than necessary for every knick and scrape instead of fighting thru like most players. 

I have always understood why FO took the gamble on Winslow ; his skillset was something we desp needed when looking at last years team. 

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Yeah, in a perfect world, we get the next Kawhi or Paul George, but I am more concern with our ability to score and close the games. Ja cant shoot, so our best bet is Jaren devolop into a daily bucket. 

We need a 3rd player to form our big 3. 

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24 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

Yeah, in a perfect world, we get the next Kawhi or Paul George, but I am more concern with our ability to score and close the games. Ja cant shoot, so our best bet is Jaren devolop into a daily bucket. 

We need a 3rd player to form our big 3. 

We don't have anybody who is good enough to be considered part of a big 3.  We have a lot of good players, best depth in the NBA in my opinion, but nobody great yet.  We have some guys who could develop into that type of player but we'll see.  Let's start with a big 1 and work our way from there.

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Ja+Jonas pick and roll is one of the best on offense.

But on defense is just awful and the blame is on both of them.

Jonas is SLOW but he also lacks defensive IQ to position him self in better spots.

Ja is just awful and at times just takes plays off completly or jumps for any pump fake.

When you put them together you get guys like Milton or Lavert going for 40 plus.

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I like how the blame is going to Jonas and Ja. Are they stellar defenders? No. They are, however, starters on a top 10 D, and it's not the first time that has been the case for JV. 

It's not like they're being "picked up" by Kyle, Grayson and Dillon. Kyle is slow and inconsistent depending on matchups. Dillon is pesky and the best defender in the group, but I'd hesitate to call him anything beyond a bit above average. Don't know if I'd call anyone else who's been a regular this year better than average other than Melton. Some guys have high potential there, and Winslow is generally a good defender when he actually plays. 

D is first and foremost about effort and communication, and is an area coaching can always have an impact. The team has taken a step forward defensively despite having lots of injury issues all season. I'd look at that as a positive. 

It's also worth noting that D is directly dependent on how well you execute offensively. Your offensive discipline and execution has to let you play at your ideal pace to also maximize your D. It's also hard to max out your offense when your 2nd most talented player has been missing all year and you've had to juggle different rotations pretty much all year. 

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4 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Allen is bad on defense.  Bane was a known good defender in college and has shown he can play well individually.  Bane biggest issue is keeping up with the scheme.     Allen is an inconsistent offensive player with below average defense.    There are too many games that have shown this.    I know you love Grayson but it is what it is.   And a 30pt game against the combined defense of Trae Young and Lou Williams isn't gonna change those facts.   His best outcome is 3pt specialists because he can and is a willing shooter.   That is a good thing. 

Based off of ALL metrics Melton should be starting in his place.   Bane has more upside but can play backup 3 if needed.  I am not against Grayson being backup SG.  

but allen's numbers don't show he is bad on defense yet bane's show he's not as good as you claim.  which is it?  eye test or numbers?  or both?  you're being very contradictory.  not to mention that allen has better numbers than bane while seemingly outmatched against starting level players compared to bane getting to play against benches and still having worse defensive and other advanced stats numbers.  i wouldn't mind seeing melton get some starts as he also benefits from playing mostly against bench units.  i'd like to see how much of his offensive and defensive production could be maintained against tougher starting opponents.  allen at least has proven to be relatively capable/passable on both sides of the ball whether off the bench or starting.  i think he'd kill against bench units and it'd be interesting to see how much he'd produce in that role as well.

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This is ja's second year, jarens third year, the grizzlies are one of the youngest teams in the league.

The grizzlies don't know their *** from a hole in the ground right now.

You don't start learning how to win until about 5 years in the league, anybody acting like they have any clue about this team is clueless to basketball, which mostly these beat writers are.

Lol, no savior. 2 years in the league. Come on man.

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I agree with (KBM) this time.. judging Ja when he is only in second year process is way too early. Yes he is awful in defense and not good at shooting but he has plenty of time to improve and get the talent for it.

I agree with the fact that defense is essential for us. It's not about going back to GnG area but we will never sign Lebron or Curry. We can only have good players not superstar ( unless we got very lucky at draft) so we need to build a team of good player with a good chemistry able to fight every night and win. We are not that far. Just need JJJ healthy, and 2 more player, a real 3D wing and another good young guys. On my opinion Jenkins also have to improve to way he manage key moment in games.

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