Ole Dirty Klondike

Is Ja a top 5 G in the West?

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8 minutes ago, KyleB said:

I'd put him at 6 right behind Booker, outside of the top 5 but well within the top 10. I think Booker and Mitchel are both within reach of being passed by Ja by the end of next year. If anything I think Ja is undervalued because he is a pass first pg so he is not going to have the scoring numbers that the other guys have. And Chris Paul seems under ranked on your list. I'd still have CP3 above a lot of those guys you have listed ahead of him.

I wasn't ranking anyone. It was just a list of names.

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If Luka keeps losing I am putting him in a tier below Dame/Steph.  Those two GUARDS are having MVP-qualify seasons.  
 

The five main young guns aka Luka/Zion/Trae/Ja/LaMelo are all having good to great seasons on teams fighting for play-in games.  Probably not top 10 guys (and if Luka keeps losing then I am dropping him out of my MVP Top 10 Power Poll).  Slightly overrated.  But probably just outside try top 10-15ish guys in the league.  

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9 hours ago, KyleB said:

I don't agree with this at all. There are tons of players that came into the league without a jumper who are above average from 3 now. I think its the opposite really, shooting is one of the easiest things to improve. And a huge part of defense is just desire, if he decides he wants to defend he should be able to improve there too.

im pretty sure that list of guys is pretty short...but we asking ja to improve on shooting and defense...he maybe in his seventh season before he is even average at both.

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It's hard to answer for me. As a good G depend also of which player you have around?

Mike is shinning this year in Utah because he got around him superstars players Mitchell, Gobert, and very strong second line ( Clarkson, Ingles). Thats allow him to conduct the game with many offensive option, things that Ja did not have. Give Ja 2 good players more in the team and we may see his real level. For the moment he take some shoot he shoudn't just because there is not enough talent here. Hopefully JJJ and one guy by trade or pick will make it works. 

 

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When assessing a player's ability to overcome flaws you need to look a bit deeper than "shooting" and "defense", and look at specific issues that need to be addressed.

About Ja's shooting, he doesn't have a fundamentally broken shot mechanic. It's not like he needs to completely rebuild his shot, he just needs lots of reps. An offseason or two with a shooting coach (something that he couldn't do last summer) should bring his open shots close to average. Also, part of his shooting problems this season are due to how defenses are keying in: they close his driving lanes forcing him to take shots that he wouldn't otherwise and they double him at the first opportunity. This problem is compounded by the fact that he's sometimes forced to carry the team's offensive load when his surrounding cast is not exacting lighting up the scoreboard (or the alternative is Dillon). Once he has JJJ and hopefully someone in the backcourt able to score consistently he'll be able to drive more and pick his shots better.

About his defense, he has two major issues but he's not lazy and he doesn't have terrible instincts. The first issue which would be easiest to fix is his inability to fight through screens. Once he puts on a bit of muscle he'll get much better at that. It would also help if the bigs did something more than flashing occasionally when Ja is targeted in the P&R (I read an article somewhere that suggested blitzing the ball handler all the time but that would be suicidal as a default option). The other issue, harder to fix but not impossible, is Ja's positioning in defense. He's very often out of step with his man and that gets him in trouble both in the P&R (getting too late to the screen) and penetrations (forcing someone else to help, often breaking down the defense). This can only be fixed by watching a TON of video and by addressing it over and over again in practice. Given how little time for practice there is right now I don't see this improving right away, but I trust Ja's work ethic and intelligence to set him on the right path.

All things considered I expect Ja to be an adequate shooter and defender well before he enters his prime. Any long term shortcomings should be addressed by getting him the right complementary pieces.

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16 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

If Luka keeps losing I am putting him in a tier below Dame/Steph.  Those two GUARDS are having MVP-qualify seasons.  
 

The five main young guns aka Luka/Zion/Trae/Ja/LaMelo are all having good to great seasons on teams fighting for play-in games.  Probably not top 10 guys (and if Luka keeps losing then I am dropping him out of my MVP Top 10 Power Poll).  Slightly overrated.  But probably just outside try top 10-15ish guys in the league.  

You do realize that the Mavs had extended games were players were missing due to COVID right? They started out really rocky, they were then trying to reintegrate Porzingis and then had the COVID stuff. They have won 6 out of their last 8 and the 4 games they lost before that were back to backs against PHX and UTA, 2 of the hottest teams in the league. They are a better team than us, Luka is better than Ja and they will be in the playoffs. If they stay healthy, their second half of the season will be way better than the first half.

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@Ole Dirty Klondike How do Dallas fans feel about the Porzingous 

- Have they turned on him yet? 

- I’m fairly sure ya’ll still love Luka

 

* Forgot to ask ... seeing so much negative information re: Texas power/ water issues... Hoping you and your loved ones are safe

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Ja is incredibly gifted and athletic.  I'm thinking he would be more impactful if he had better and deeper talent surrounding him, versus he can hit better numbers with higher impact with less talent on the floor.   I sense he struggles to raise the game of everyone else on the court...hopefully soon but not yet.  He would be on a better progression if he had a seasoned PG to mentor his play.  I'm guessing Jenkins didn't play PG?  My point is he needs a guy like Jack Sikma who helped JV during the season.  JV could use Jack now, and Ja could use a Steve Nash type of guy, or maybe a trade to bring in a 35 year old Lowry (aint happening) but you get what i mean.

Many of you have said Jenkins needs to calm down the starting lineup and his rotations...there is too much going on with different player schemes and his combos.   What is his purpose or intent with how he rolls these out?  Jenkins should advance his thinking and start clustering player types, with who and when in a game to play them.

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1 hour ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

@Ole Dirty Klondike How do Dallas fans feel about the Porzingous 

- Have they turned on him yet? 

- I’m fairly sure ya’ll still love Luka

 

* Forgot to ask ... seeing so much negative information re: Texas power/ water issues... Hoping you and your loved ones are safe

Supposedly the Mavs are low key shopping him.  Mavs fans are antsy. Lots of angst. Knicks fans are gloating.  Not sure what Mavs fans think. I don’t know any really.  I haven’t been out of the 901 area code since last January when I was in East Texas for a week.  Watched a Mavs game. Kinda boring.  Oh, and the Knicks have their pick this year.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2055642

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2 hours ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

@Ole Dirty Klondike How do Dallas fans feel about the Porzingous 

- Have they turned on him yet? 

- I’m fairly sure ya’ll still love Luka

 

* Forgot to ask ... seeing so much negative information re: Texas power/ water issues... Hoping you and your loved ones are safe

Yes, we're good. I was pretty lucky and came out unscathed unlike many others. Thanks for asking.

As far as Porzingis, I think the fans like the potential but have lost hope with his injuries. He was injured when traded here, so fans were patient, he played a good amount last year but got injured again and had to have surgery and now with this latest injury, I think people are losing hope he will ever stay on the floor.

With that being said, Cuban said he isn't shopping him but that could be company talk.

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On 2/22/2021 at 8:01 AM, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

You know. I was listening to the Daily Memphian podcast and they were talking about the probability of Ja being an  All Star (which was basically zero). They also mentioned that Ja had "outgrown" the dunk contest because that's really for rising stars and Ja was past that level as a real star and rising superstar. I thought to myself, "is he really past that though?". I'm not big on the dunk contest anymore but I do think it could help increase his brand if he won it.  I personally don't think he is "past" anything. Are we overvaluing Ja?

With that being said, a serious question is, are we overvaluing Ja? Is he really as good as Grizz fans think he is? Is he even a top 5 G in the West? It's obvious that he's the best draft pick for the Grizz since Pau Gasol but If you look at the list of guards, I think it's debatable if Ja is even a top 10 G in the West let alone the league:

  • Steph Curry
  • Luka Doncic
  • Damian Lillard
  • Donovan Mitchell
  • Devin Booker
  • Shai Gilgeous Alexander
  • De'Aron Fox
  • Paul George (who is listed as G)
  • CJ McCollum
  • Mike Conly
  • Chris Paul
  • John Wall
  • DeMar DeRozan
  • Injured- Klay Thompson

Is Ja better than any of these guys? Is he a top 5 G in the West? Heck, is he even a top 10 G in the West. Where would you rank him and notice, this is just the West. I didn't even include the East where there are numerous G's clearly better than Ja.

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20 minutes ago, TimBC said:

He'll be top 5 by the middle of his career.

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He will be just not yet 

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4 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Yes, we're good. I was pretty lucky and came out unscathed unlike many others. Thanks for asking.

As far as Porzingis, I think the fans like the potential but have lost hope with his injuries. He was injured when traded here, so fans were patient, he played a good amount last year but got injured again and had to have surgery and now with this latest injury, I think people are losing hope he will ever stay on the floor.

With that being said, Cuban said he isn't shopping him but that could be company talk.

I would trade Dieng, Grayson, Tyus, Porter, 58, two future second round picks and cash for KP, Tyrell Terry, Josh Green, Tyler Bey and 45.  Green and Bey were advanced stats standouts when I crunched my numbers for the 2020 draft.  Tyrell Terry didn’t have the best metrics but they were solid and I also had him number one overall on my board (with Wiseman at 2 and LaMelo at 3).  I though we should have drafted Terry.  Ironically the Mavs aren’t fielding a G League team so he’s on the Hustle.  Terry/Josh/Tyler Bey are as good as anyone in this draft outside the top 5ish picks.  
 

Mavs get off KP’s contract while getting a couple of solid role players in Grayson and Tyus.  Plus, Dieng’s expiring.  I wouldn’t be shocked if he helps them the rest of the way and he gets resigned.

We clear up some clutter and pick up 3 promising players on rookie deals who should be able to fit in well with our system.  Getting the Mavs’ second rounder should help us out if we want to move up.  If KP plays then it’s icing on the cake.  If he finishes out his contract with high level play then he (and the rest of the guys) makes us a contender.

PG: Ja/Tyrell Terry/Melton (Melton can play with Terry because Terry can shoot)

SG: Bane/Josh Green/Konchar

SF: Winslow/Dillon/McDermott

PF: Jaren/Slo Mo/Clarke

Center: JV/KP/Tillman

Plus our own first and the Mavs second. 
 

If we have a shot at Cade or Mobley or Jalen Green we can still use all those picks and maybe throw in Melton.

 

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On 2/23/2021 at 1:01 AM, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

You know. I was listening to the Daily Memphian podcast and they were talking about the probability of Ja being an  All Star (which was basically zero). They also mentioned that Ja had "outgrown" the dunk contest because that's really for rising stars and Ja was past that level as a real star and rising superstar. I thought to myself, "is he really past that though?". I'm not big on the dunk contest anymore but I do think it could help increase his brand if he won it.  I personally don't think he is "past" anything. Are we overvaluing Ja?

With that being said, a serious question is, are we overvaluing Ja? Is he really as good as Grizz fans think he is? Is he even a top 5 G in the West? It's obvious that he's the best draft pick for the Grizz since Pau Gasol but If you look at the list of guards, I think it's debatable if Ja is even a top 10 G in the West let alone the league:

  • Steph Curry
  • Luka Doncic
  • Damian Lillard
  • Donovan Mitchell
  • Devin Booker
  • Shai Gilgeous Alexander
  • De'Aron Fox
  • Paul George (who is listed as G)
  • CJ McCollum
  • Mike Conly
  • Chris Paul
  • John Wall
  • DeMar DeRozan
  • Injured- Klay Thompson

Is Ja better than any of these guys? Is he a top 5 G in the West? Heck, is he even a top 10 G in the West. Where would you rank him and notice, this is just the West. I didn't even include the East where there are numerous G's clearly better than Ja.

If people are saying Jaren is not the 2nd best (or 3rd or 4th) on the Grizzlies because he's out injured and because 2nd is based on "potential" then using that same criteria standard, Ja is not top 5, and probably not above anyone on this list except for maybe SGA

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