Ole Dirty Klondike

Is Ja a top 5 G in the West?

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You know. I was listening to the Daily Memphian podcast and they were talking about the probability of Ja being an  All Star (which was basically zero). They also mentioned that Ja had "outgrown" the dunk contest because that's really for rising stars and Ja was past that level as a real star and rising superstar. I thought to myself, "is he really past that though?". I'm not big on the dunk contest anymore but I do think it could help increase his brand if he won it.  I personally don't think he is "past" anything. Are we overvaluing Ja?

With that being said, a serious question is, are we overvaluing Ja? Is he really as good as Grizz fans think he is? Is he even a top 5 G in the West? It's obvious that he's the best draft pick for the Grizz since Pau Gasol but If you look at the list of guards, I think it's debatable if Ja is even a top 10 G in the West let alone the league:

  • Steph Curry
  • Luka Doncic
  • Damian Lillard
  • Donovan Mitchell
  • Devin Booker
  • Shai Gilgeous Alexander
  • De'Aron Fox
  • Paul George (who is listed as G)
  • CJ McCollum
  • Mike Conly
  • Chris Paul
  • John Wall
  • DeMar DeRozan
  • Injured- Klay Thompson

Is Ja better than any of these guys? Is he a top 5 G in the West? Heck, is he even a top 10 G in the West. Where would you rank him and notice, this is just the West. I didn't even include the East where there are numerous G's clearly better than Ja.

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Until he improves his jumpshot and pull up jumper he has a serious flaw that can be exposed by good defenses. Obviously his playmaking is great but to get into the top 10 that is a must. 

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11 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Until he improves his jumpshot and pull up jumper he has a serious flaw that can be exposed by good defenses. Obviously his playmaking is great but to get into the top 10 that is a must. 

Yeah he's 22% from 3 which is horrendous. He should rely on his floater and mid range for the rest of the year and lay off of the three. I think people are a little too quick to crown him as the next great guard but I just wanted to put a reality check out there that there are a lot of great guards out there, especially in the West. Ja needs to really improve cause guards are putting up gaudy stats right now and most of their teams are also winning.

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He's top 5 in some things, like shot creation, but not top 5 overall. Yet. 

As far as the dunk contest, who cares? His brand doesn't matter to me, if Ja doesn't want to do the dunk contest, fine with me. 

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the guy is just in his second season- kind of..think of the short break after the awkward last year.

he is a work in progress, but he has proven he can get anywhere he wants on the court with ease. that is a skill that can't be worked on and really can't be improved upon- you either have that or you don't. the 3 pt shooting has been really bad, but that is a skillset that can certainly be improved upon. the young man loves it when folks doubt him and say he can't do something. I expect him to work on it furiously and to be average at the shot by his 4th season.

he also has leadership skills and his passing is absolutely top notch. maybe he does not deserve to be an all-star this year and im ok with that. 

 

slim.

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2 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Yeah he's 22% from 3 which is horrendous. He should rely on his floater and mid range for the rest of the year and lay off of the three. I think people are a little too quick to crown him as the next great guard but I just wanted to put a reality check out there that there are a lot of great guards out there, especially in the West. Ja needs to really improve cause guards are putting up gaudy stats right now and most of their teams are also winning.

His passing, handles and athleticism give him a unique advantage over most guards you see so his potential is still great but as of now productivity wise he really isn't better than SGA or Fox. 

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4 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

You know. I was listening to the Daily Memphian podcast and they were talking about the probability of Ja being an  All Star (which was basically zero). They also mentioned that Ja had "outgrown" the dunk contest because that's really for rising stars and Ja was past that level as a real star and rising superstar. I thought to myself, "is he really past that though?". I'm not big on the dunk contest anymore but I do think it could help increase his brand if he won it.  I personally don't think he is "past" anything. Are we overvaluing Ja?

With that being said, a serious question is, are we overvaluing Ja? Is he really as good as Grizz fans think he is? Is he even a top 5 G in the West? It's obvious that he's the best draft pick for the Grizz since Pau Gasol but If you look at the list of guards, I think it's debatable if Ja is even a top 10 G in the West let alone the league:

  • Steph Curry
  • Luka Doncic
  • Damian Lillard
  • Donovan Mitchell
  • Devin Booker
  • Shai Gilgeous Alexander
  • De'Aron Fox
  • Paul George (who is listed as G)
  • CJ McCollum
  • Mike Conly
  • Chris Paul
  • John Wall
  • DeMar DeRozan
  • Injured- Klay Thompson

Is Ja better than any of these guys? Is he a top 5 G in the West? Heck, is he even a top 10 G in the West. Where would you rank him and notice, this is just the West. I didn't even include the East where there are numerous G's clearly better than Ja.

only players on that list that is  clearly better than ja is curry,lillard and mitchell...the rest it depends what you want out of your guard.

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3 hours ago, memphis slim said:

the guy is just in his second season- kind of..think of the short break after the awkward last year.

he is a work in progress, but he has proven he can get anywhere he wants on the court with ease. that is a skill that can't be worked on and really can't be improved upon- you either have that or you don't. the 3 pt shooting has been really bad, but that is a skillset that can certainly be improved upon. the young man loves it when folks doubt him and say he can't do something. I expect him to work on it furiously and to be average at the shot by his 4th season.

he also has leadership skills and his passing is absolutely top notch. maybe he does not deserve to be an all-star this year and im ok with that. 

 

slim.

not a given...i stated in another thread that ja's two major flaws are some of the hardest to fix...alot of guys never learn to shot alot of guys never get better at defense.

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Top 10 right now? No. Top ten in the next two years.

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Dunks don’t matter???? Imma head out...

No seriously.  He should do it.  No downside.  Him and Anthony Edwards can take turns dunking on Yuta Watanabe.

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DUNKS DON’T MATTER?

They are STILL showing highlights of the Land of the RISING SON unfurling the Dunk That Will Live In Infamy!!!

DUNKS DON’T MATTER???

Tell that to Yuta Watanabe’s next of kin.

#YutaWatanabesDentalRecordsInShambles

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10 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

Dunks don’t matter???? Imma head out...

No seriously.  He should do it.  No downside.  Him and Anthony Edwards can take turns dunking on Yuta Watanabe.

I’m still standing by my opinion that was an offensive foul by Edwards on Yuta

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2 minutes ago, Subliminal said:

I’m still standing by my opinion that was an offensive foul by Edwards on Yuta

That’s why layups don’t matter.  
 

The WORST part? The landing.  
 

And most angles are even better than the main one.  Have you seen the dunk in slow motion???   #AirZapruder

My Anthony Edwards comp (Dajuan Wagner/Mike Tyson hybrid) looks right on. 
 

#AnthonyEdwardsPunchOut

 

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55 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

only players on that list that is  clearly better than ja is curry,lillard and mitchell...the rest it depends what you want out of your guard.

Yeah. But some of those other guards have a better resume.  Lillard and Curry are legit MVP candidates.  Donovan Mitchell is a secondary MVP candidate.  Luka isn’t a guard in my book but he is good.  Con Man winning in Utah.  CP3 is moving up the MVP ladder.  Going into the year I had Ja as a guy with top 10ish-15 potential.  Young dudes like Luka is there.  Zion is moving up. Trae is right there.  Ja Morant is probably somewhere behind those guys.  Minuses for Ja is the 3 ball, defense and advanced stats. Pluses: helps us win even without great shooting nights, some good nights on the boards, charisma, fearlessness and he doesn’t really try to pad his stats.  Still, he finished 5 and 6 in terms of All Star voting (fans/media) which is really good.  Fairly rated I think.  Perhaps overrated by some local media and diehard Grizz fans.  Long-term upside?  One of the top Breakfast Club Guys aka Four Horseman of the Brat Pack Apocalypse with Luka/Zion and maybe LaMelo and/or Trae.  Or Rat Pack Era is here, Luka is Sinatra, Zion is Dean Martin, Ja Morant is Sammy Davis and., with Trae Young or LaMelo Ball being Joey Bishop.  If Anthony Edwards keeps climbing the rafters maybe he has Dean Martin upside.  Yep. These kids are nuts. Should be fun the watch for the next decade plus.  

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1 hour ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

only players on that list that is  clearly better than ja is curry,lillard and mitchell...the rest it depends what you want out of your guard.

Luka Doncic is better than Ja on all fronts, including 3 pt shooting and he's not a good 3 point shooter

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4 hours ago, memphis slim said:

the guy is just in his second season- kind of..think of the short break after the awkward last year.

he is a work in progress, but he has proven he can get anywhere he wants on the court with ease. that is a skill that can't be worked on and really can't be improved upon- you either have that or you don't. the 3 pt shooting has been really bad, but that is a skillset that can certainly be improved upon. the young man loves it when folks doubt him and say he can't do something. I expect him to work on it furiously and to be average at the shot by his 4th season.

he also has leadership skills and his passing is absolutely top notch. maybe he does not deserve to be an all-star this year and im ok with that. 

 

slim.

Understood. Just trying to get a gauge on where people think Ja is. Fans seem to talk about him like a top 5 guard in the league but I'm not even sure he's top 10 in the West right now. He's a really good player and needs to develop certain aspects of his game but I think the Ja hype train is a little too much right now. He's a good player, probably the best we have gotten from the draft since Pau (and that includes Conley) but with the way guards are putting up numbers now, he's barely a top 10 G in the West. That should change over the next year or two or at least we should expect it to change.

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8 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Understood. Just trying to get a gauge on where people think Ja is. Fans seem to talk about him like a top 5 guard in the league but I'm not even sure he's top 10 in the West right now. He's a really good player and needs to develop certain aspects of his game but I think the Ja hype train is a little too much right now. He's a good player, probably the best we have gotten from the draft since Pau (and that includes Conley) but with the way guards are putting up numbers now, he's barely a top 10 G in the West. That should change over the next year or two or at least we should expect it to change.

If we were winning more and Ja didn’t miss games then he would be higher up the pecking order.  Mitchell/Conley are up there for that reason or at least they are finally getting lots of recognition.  If the Jazz keep it up and can win a title then Conley is an All Star... Donovan Mitchell is a SUPERSTAR.  #JustWinBaby

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If we have this discussion after the bubble, Jamal Murray is high on all people's list, but now?

 

When doing the rankings, it somewhat depends on what you want from your PG.  If I had a team that had plenty of scoring from my wings and/or posts, Mike Conley would be very high on my list, but if I need a PG that has to score with little help, he would be much, much lower whereas Ja would be higher.

Saying that, if I was starting a team to play just this remaining part of the season, and the whole realm of guards is available, here is my draft board, in tiers

Tier 1 - Steph Curry, Dame, Chris Paul, Luka

Tier 2 Paul George, Donovan Mitchell, (Ghost of Klay Thompson)

Tier 3: CJ Mac, Conley, Ja, Booker, Jamal Murray, De'Aaron Fox, Wall, Demar

 

Maybe that is a copout to the OP question, but those Tier 3 guys are all guys that are probably regular All-Stars in the East that generally don't make it in the West (traditionally). 

 

 

 

 

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I think Ja would look better too if the coaching staff surrounded him by the proper talent and also played him more minutes.     Ja too often played majority of his minutes surrounded by non-shooters and non-athletes.  Does he even avg 30mpg?   

Those other guys on the list get to play majority of their minutes with players that accentuate what they do and they get prime minutes.  

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24 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I think Ja would look better too if the coaching staff surrounded him by the proper talent and also played him more minutes.     Ja too often played majority of his minutes surrounded by non-shooters and non-athletes.  Does he even avg 30mpg?   

Those other guys on the list get to play majority of their minutes with players that accentuate what they do and they get prime minutes.  

Don’t doubt it.  Are we trying to run Grit/Grind 2.0?  If so, Ja is just gonna be Mike Conley 2.0 with better hops but a worse shot/defense.  More shooting and rim runners is what Ja needs.  We need to address that in Draft/FA.  

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30 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I think Ja would look better too if the coaching staff surrounded him by the proper talent and also played him more minutes.     Ja too often played majority of his minutes surrounded by non-shooters and non-athletes.  Does he even avg 30mpg?   

Those other guys on the list get to play majority of their minutes with players that accentuate what they do and they get prime minutes.  

yes all around. put a freak athlete at the 2 with him and to the moon alice.

 

slim.

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7 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

You know. I was listening to the Daily Memphian podcast and they were talking about the probability of Ja being an  All Star (which was basically zero). They also mentioned that Ja had "outgrown" the dunk contest because that's really for rising stars and Ja was past that level as a real star and rising superstar. I thought to myself, "is he really past that though?". I'm not big on the dunk contest anymore but I do think it could help increase his brand if he won it.  I personally don't think he is "past" anything. Are we overvaluing Ja?

With that being said, a serious question is, are we overvaluing Ja? Is he really as good as Grizz fans think he is? Is he even a top 5 G in the West? It's obvious that he's the best draft pick for the Grizz since Pau Gasol but If you look at the list of guards, I think it's debatable if Ja is even a top 10 G in the West let alone the league:

  • Steph Curry
  • Luka Doncic
  • Damian Lillard
  • Donovan Mitchell
  • Devin Booker
  • Shai Gilgeous Alexander
  • De'Aron Fox
  • Paul George (who is listed as G)
  • CJ McCollum
  • Mike Conly
  • Chris Paul
  • John Wall
  • DeMar DeRozan
  • Injured- Klay Thompson

Is Ja better than any of these guys? Is he a top 5 G in the West? Heck, is he even a top 10 G in the West. Where would you rank him and notice, this is just the West. I didn't even include the East where there are numerous G's clearly better than Ja.

I'd put him at 6 right behind Booker, outside of the top 5 but well within the top 10. I think Booker and Mitchel are both within reach of being passed by Ja by the end of next year. If anything I think Ja is undervalued because he is a pass first pg so he is not going to have the scoring numbers that the other guys have. And Chris Paul seems under ranked on your list. I'd still have CP3 above a lot of those guys you have listed ahead of him.

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1 minute ago, memphis slim said:

yes all around. put a freak athlete at the 2 with him and to the moon alice.

 

slim.

Ja/Jalen Green would be the Human Highlight Bros but Green is a streaky shooter too and might be gone by the 3rd pick.  

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2 hours ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

not a given...i stated in another thread that ja's two major flaws are some of the hardest to fix...alot of guys never learn to shot alot of guys never get better at defense.

I don't agree with this at all. There are tons of players that came into the league without a jumper who are above average from 3 now. I think its the opposite really, shooting is one of the easiest things to improve. And a huge part of defense is just desire, if he decides he wants to defend he should be able to improve there too.

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