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chipc33

Memphis Grizzlies @ Dallas Mavericks 2/22/21

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Luka is an elite level play-maker but his shooting has been mostly awful this season.  I haven't watched him much so my question is. 

Is he just a streaky shooter or is it that NBA defenses are getting better at defending against him? 

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25 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

We still haven't seen the full roster.  I think everybody agrees we still need another dynamic scorer on the wing?  When did i ever say we already have the solution on the roster? 

I disagree that Justise isn't a solution for anything.  Apparently some of ya'll really really devalue perimeter defense and having someone that can guard big athletic wings.   For some odd reason yall thought Justise was supposed to be the dynamic scorer and are killing him after TWO FREAKING GAMES.  Shame on you if you thought Winslow was supposed to be the dynamic scorer.   Winslow is supposed to replace Dillon's role as the "Primary Wing Defender".   Dillon is the one that needs to replaced as the dynamic scorer.  To be fair he may actually improve with less responsibility on defense.  

Winslow Jonas Tyus and Kyle are veterans.   When did you ever see me say don't pursue Lavine, Beal, or Hield because we have Winslow??  I only said we shouldn't give up everything for those dudes.  

I guess maybe i am the only one that sees Ja is terrible on defense and our perimeter defense needs to be better.  

When I said vets I wasn’t even talking on the level of Lavine and Beal we just need some dependable guys who know their role and can consistently produce close to the norm. The Alec Burcs, Jae Crowders, PJ Tuckers,just solid veterans role player who know how to maintain leads, close out games work the reffs just all the little stuff that you don’t get from being a young team. I know Kyle and JV would be considered the vets on the team but I feel like things were different when Crowder was here. 
 

I understand what Winslow’s role is supposed to be but until I can see him playing consistently injury free I’m just not investing a whole lot of interest in what he can do for the team.

@GrizzTigerFan

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4 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

When I said vets I wasn’t even talking on the level of Lavine and Beal we just need some dependable guys who know their role and can consistently produce close to the norm. The Alec Burcs, Jae Crowders, PJ Tuckers,just solid veterans role player who know how to maintain leads, close out games work the reffs just all the little stuff that you don’t get from being a young team. I know Kyle and JV would be considered the vets on the team but I feel like things were different when Crowder was here. 
 

I understand what Winslow’s role is supposed to be but until I can see him playing consistently injury free I’m just not investing a whole lot of interest in what he can do for the team.

@GrizzTigerFan

Can ya'll give the dude more than 2 games back tho?   I am still trying to figure out why some posters think a dude that hasn't played NBA level bball in a full year is supposed to playing AllStar level on offense?    It should be extremely clear that Taylor is telling him to play the way he is in order for him to get back into a rhythm.   It isn't like they have had many practices the last couple of weeks.   Dude finally gets on the court and now ppl waiting on him to get injured again-- terrible. 

Sounds like you want a 30yr old on the roster which we do already have in Dieng.   Personally, i am glad we dont have playable older veterans on the roster.    Did you forget about the complaints on Jae Crowder and Coach overplaying him and Solo?   Crowder was chucking like Justise and posters were moaning about that too.   Taylor was leaning too heavily on them at the expense of the younger player development.   Which is why FO shipped them both out and didn't replace them.  

We aren't ready to start truly competing yet so it isn't time to start picking up vets.   I mean don't ya'll still want a lottery pick?    Getting a vet would hurt that.   Atlanta and Dallas are doing that and they have worse records than we do.   Keep the eye on the prize.   Its fun winning games but we still are missing a key ingredient (dynamic wing scorer).   We are still in development phase. 

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57 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Can ya'll give the dude more than 2 games back tho?   I am still trying to figure out why some posters think a dude that hasn't played NBA level bball in a full year is supposed to playing AllStar level on offense?    It should be extremely clear that Taylor is telling him to play the way he is in order for him to get back into a rhythm.   It isn't like they have had many practices the last couple of weeks.   Dude finally gets on the court and now ppl waiting on him to get injured again-- terrible. 

Sounds like you want a 30yr old on the roster which we do already have in Dieng.   Personally, i am glad we dont have playable older veterans on the roster.    Did you forget about the complaints on Jae Crowder and Coach overplaying him and Solo?   Crowder was chucking like Justise and posters were moaning about that too.   Taylor was leaning too heavily on them at the expense of the younger player development.   Which is why FO shipped them both out and didn't replace them.  

We aren't ready to start truly competing yet so it isn't time to start picking up vets.   I mean don't ya'll still want a lottery pick?    Getting a vet would hurt that.   Atlanta and Dallas are doing that and they have worse records than we do.   Keep the eye on the prize.   Its fun winning games but we still are missing a key ingredient (dynamic wing scorer).   We are still in development phase. 

What else do you need to see from the young players on the roster currently? The only new ones are Tillman and Bane and most of us have established that they are keepers and have a role worth developing but it shouldn’t take a whole season to figure out what you have on the roster. You say we haven’t seen the full roster well the only person that is missing is Jaren and we already know what he brings. So if we are waiting to see if he’s gonna be a better rebounder and stop fouling then ok I can understand that.

However this whole idea that this season is an evaluation year and development year doesn’t mean just keep turning the wheel with the same players and see what shakes out at the end of the year I think if we on the board have identified things then the FO and coaching staff should have also identified those things plus more.

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Here are the things we should have figured out so far about the younger guys.

JA: bad defender bad shooter both are areas that can be improved. But it’s smart to put good defenders next to him on the wings to minimize his flaws.

Grayson: not starter quality, but good bench shooter that gives effort on D. Is a better catch and shoot guard than he is a playmaker. He may or may not improve his playmaking. 
 

Melton: undersized scoring guard with improved offense. Can be a good to great two position defender, solid rebounder for his size and position, does a lot of the small things. Needs to be a better playmaker. Is still young so he has room for improvement across the board.

Bane: elite shooter with concerns as a playmaker and a defender. Only a rookie so he has room for improvement across the board as well.

Tyus Kyle Justise JV are all pretty much what they are gonna be Kyle has for sure peaked out now that he’s shooting the 3 and we know that he is best utilized as a 4 he can’t guard wings as effectively as Justise can.

BC: needs to improve his shooting consistency and rebounding aside from that he’s pretty much a finished product too don’t see much else developing from him.

Tillman: still looks a little out of shape but is a smart defender, and passer just need to continue developing as a draymond lite he’s a rookie so he has time to develop and refine what he’s already good at.

Konchar Porter Tille McDermott are all end of the bench guys or two way talents so if they get traded, or waived it doesn’t really matter that much.

Jaren we all know what his flaws are no need to bring them up the more he can stay on the court the more of a chance he can be the number 2 guy next to JA.

I understand your optimism in Justise and I’m not saying he’s trash im just not ready to anoint him as our wing stopper secondary playmaker and until I can trust that he’s gonna be available. He has an injury history that would lead me to believe he can’t stay on the floor so until those doubts are satisfied I’m just wait and see on him.

Oh and Dillon: he needs to get traded 

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21 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

What else do you need to see from the young players on the roster currently? The only new ones are Tillman and Bane and most of us have established that they are keepers and have a role worth developing but it shouldn’t take a whole season to figure out what you have on the roster. You say we haven’t seen the full roster well the only person that is missing is Jaren and we already know what he brings. So if we are waiting to see if he’s gonna be a better rebounder and stop fouling then ok I can understand that.

However this whole idea that this season is an evaluation year and development year doesn’t mean just keep turning the wheel with the same players and see what shakes out at the end of the year I think if we on the board have identified things then the FO and coaching staff should have also identified those things plus more.

Uhmm we haven't even hit AllStar break yet. 

We know Jaren brings elite floor spacing and potentially is either our primary or secondary scorer.  That's a pretty big deal for a young non-playoff team to be missing.   

Yes this season is an evaluation year - hence why they didnt pull an atlanta and start overpaying veterans.    Low-key we all know they want another high draft pick this season.    They are trying to build up the assets we have.  Some to keep and some to trade but its hard to trade guys that have no value.   Its frustrating to watch but i get their logic.  

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9 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Uhmm we haven't even hit AllStar break yet. 

We know Jaren brings elite floor spacing and potentially is either our primary or secondary scorer.  That's a pretty big deal for a young non-playoff team to be missing.   

Yes this season is an evaluation year - hence why they didnt pull an atlanta and start overpaying veterans.    Low-key we all know they want another high draft pick this season.    They are trying to build up the assets we have.  Some to keep and some to trade but its hard to trade guys that have no value.   Its frustrating to watch but i get their logic.  

I think everyone’s value is pretty much set Dillon might be the only one that can improve his value . Cause out of Grayson, Melton, and Bane you would only trade one and the smart play would be Grayson cause Melton is showing improvement on offense so it wouldn’t make much sense to keep Grayson over an improving Melton. 
 
Obviously Dieng can be traded and Kyle might have the highest trade value right now with the way he’s been playing the same with Jonas. Whether they make move now or closer to the deadline or in the off-season they need to start molding the roster into what they believe a successful team should look like. They have to already know who worth keeping and who’s available. 

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40 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

I think everyone’s value is pretty much set Dillon might be the only one that can improve his value . Cause out of Grayson, Melton, and Bane you would only trade one and the smart play would be Grayson cause Melton is showing improvement on offense so it wouldn’t make much sense to keep Grayson over an improving Melton. 
 
Obviously Dieng can be traded and Kyle might have the highest trade value right now with the way he’s been playing the same with Jonas. Whether they make move now or closer to the deadline or in the off-season they need to start molding the roster into what they believe a successful team should look like. They have to already know who worth keeping and who’s available. 

I don't think everyone's value is set at all.   Melton shows he is a legit outside threat and his value goes  up.   Bane shows he can defend at higher level and create off the dribble his value goes way up.   Tilllman shows he can actually shoot 3s his value goes up.   Brandon becomes a 3pt threat his value goes up.  Justise becomes a deep threat or dynamic scorer and his value goes up. 

Grayson and Dillon probably are the only 2 that are at the peak of their powers.   Dillon has a complete skillset but incomplete BBIQ which brings him down.  His value will never be higher than it was right before he got resigned.   Grayson showing he can be a shooter is the peak of his value.   He will never be a shot-creator or defensive stopper.   We witnessed his peak over the last few weeks.   Add Kyle to this because we are witnessing Super Saiyan Kyle.  This is peak of his powers as well. 

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12 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I don't think everyone's value is set at all.   Melton shows he is a legit outside threat and his value goes  up.   Bane shows he can defend at higher level and create off the dribble his value goes way up.   Tilllman shows he can actually shoot 3s his value goes up.   Brandon becomes a 3pt threat his value goes up.  Justise becomes a deep threat or dynamic scorer and his value goes up. 

Grayson and Dillon probably are the only 2 that are at the peak of their powers.   Dillon has a complete skillset but incomplete BBIQ which brings him down.  His value will never be higher than it was right before he got resigned.   Grayson showing he can be a shooter is the peak of his value.   He will never be a shot-creator or defensive stopper.   We witnessed his peak over the last few weeks.   Add Kyle to this because we are witnessing Super Saiyan Kyle.  This is peak of his powers as well. 

Yea but you don’t really wanna trade Melton Bane or Tillman if they improve in those areas due to them being in the same window as JA and Jaren. As well as being on good contracts. I mean in theory you could trade them but it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to me personally.
 

That’s why the older young guys Dillon Grayson, and even BC along with Justise Tyus Kyle Dieng and JV seem more like the guys you would move if an opportunity presented itself.

That’s why I was saying they should have an idea of which guys are worth continued development and which can be had in deals.

Especially if the team lands a decent lotto selection you might be able to draft another core player. 

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3 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

Yea but you don’t really wanna trade Melton Bane or Tillman if they improve in those areas due to them being in the same window as JA and Jaren. As well as being on good contracts. I mean in theory you could trade them but it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to me personally.
 

That’s why the older young guys Dillon Grayson, and even BC along with Justise Tyus Kyle Dieng and JV seem more like the guys you would move if an opportunity presented itself.

That’s why I was saying they should have an idea of which guys are worth continued development and which can be had in deals.

Especially if the team lands a decent lotto selection you might be able to draft another core player. 

I agree with your untouchable list and don't see anyone trading for Justise.   

I can see rationale for keeping Kyle, Dillon, Grayson, JV and BC but i cant see how all of them fit together in current roles.    Kyle's versatility makes me want to keep him around.  BC lack of versatility makes him more expendable to me.  I don't want JV as permanent starter but i like his skillset on the team.   I wish Tillman was more athletic because i dont want a Big rotation of (Jaren, Kyle, Jonas , and X) due to lack of above the rim finishers.  Which is what makes BC valuable.   Dillon being the only other perimeter shot creator is valuable and harder to replace.  Grayson as a cheap rotation shooter is valuable too.   But i think it isn't wise to keep starting him because that also makes his resigning price go up.  Tyus has value but IMHO he and Dieng are the most tradeable with Tillman and Grayson getting moved to back of rotation. 

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