BigHunkALove

Grizzlies/NBA trade deadline 2021 and beyond

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1 hour ago, King Dork said:

Bogus question. Dillon plays well, no effect on the team. Ja plays well we win most of those games because the rest of the team feeds off of him. 

Not so sure. You need to factor in Dillon's ego/self-belief. Afterall, he did refer to the team as "my players" only last week.

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9 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

 

This is how I feel.  The difference between drafting 13 or 14th is small, and the odds for the lottery balls are small either way. Yes, if given a choice between top 4 pick or quick playoff exit, I'd choose the pick, but I'd rather go with the more likely option.  Be 13th or 14th in draft odds or play first round playoff series, I"m taking playoff series.

These guys aren't going to understand playoff intensity by watching.

+ 1, and rely on pick to become a good team may never happen !! 

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18 hours ago, King Dork said:

You luck into those dudes, you can’t allow that to be your plan. Klay, Giannis and Kawhi were lottery picks, if you want to say we can get that level of dude at 13 or 14 in this deep draft cool. But after the lottery it’s way less likely to get that level of player. 
 

Also, can we stop putting Draymond on that type of list? Dude literally would not be as good on any team that didn’t have Steph and Klay. 

Most mock drafts and big boards are flawed.  I think the whole entire draft process might be inherently flawed.  At the top of the board you have really good players — but ironically there are more options later on.  At the top you have to take Cade and those guys.  Or... Wiseman aka Mr. High School.  At the top you have to take The Jay Bilas Wingspan guys or whoever the dorks at The Ringer like.  ANYBODY can watch highlights and crunch all those numbers at Sports Reference.  Then get the guys who also pass all the tests in the workouts and interviews.  
 

Also, you gotta get some of those non-top 10 guys.  Part of a team’s job.  Then if you get a grand slam in the late lotto or even in the 2nd round that makes up for a ton of busts.  More important to draft for UPSIDE outside the top 10 or so.  Usually a top number one pick type at the top every year (and grandma can make that pick).  Then 2-5 or so tends to flatten out a bit or at least even top heavy drafts have some Consolation Prize types.  
 

Outside the top 45 or so... yeah go get some “solid floor” Moneyball types.  My range actually was 11-45 where you wanna swing for the fences and less pressure and salary as the top 3 or 4 picks... and probably even closer to 14-40.  In that range not only are the “obvious” Tier 1 guys are gone but probably all of Tier 2 and maybe even a good chunk of Tier 3.  Still... swing for the fences.  Just as you would in the top 4 or 5.  At 6-10 maybe you can get the IDEAL fit since I think this is where most Option 3a and High Level 4th option guys are so if that’s what you need you can probably trade around a bit (and maybe these guys also would have lots of upside in your particular system).  But outside the first few picks you KNOW you are gambling.  So... bet on Ceiling/Archetype as much as Stats/Metrics/Interviews.  But a lot of this probably has to show up in interviews (or at least metrics).  
 

So what should we do?  Stock pile picks... even second rounders.  Draft more guys but stash more dudes overseas or put them on 2 way deals.  And if we actually like some of those Moneyball utility ‘lunchpail’ guys then get them by trading down or just buying a pick.  Go get players with enough upside that you won’t have to immediately draft over.

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19 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

Not so sure. You need to factor in Dillon's ego/self-belief. Afterall, he did refer to the team as "my players" only last week.

I think that's just like saying my guy, it's not literal 

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2 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

Most mock drafts and big boards are flawed.  I think the whole entire draft process might be inherently flawed.  At the top of the board you have really good players — but ironically there are more options later on.  At the top you have to take Cade and those guys.  Or... Wiseman aka Mr. High School.  At the top you have to take The Jay Bilas Wingspan guys or whoever the dorks at The Ringer like.  ANYBODY can watch highlights and crunch all those numbers at Sports Reference.  Then get the guys who also pass all the tests in the workouts and interviews.  
 

Also, you gotta get some of those non-top 10 guys.  Part of a team’s job.  Then if you get a grand slam in the late lotto or even in the 2nd round that makes up for a ton of busts.  More important to draft for UPSIDE outside the top 10 or so.  Usually a top number one pick type at the top every year (and grandma can make that pick).  Then 2-5 or so tends to flatten out a bit or at least even top heavy drafts have some Consolation Prize types.  
 

Outside the top 45 or so... yeah go get some “solid floor” Moneyball types.  My range actually was 11-45 where you wanna swing for the fences and less pressure and salary as the top 3 or 4 picks... and probably even closer to 14-40.  In that range not only are the “obvious” Tier 1 guys are gone but probably all of Tier 2 and maybe even a good chunk of Tier 3.  Still... swing for the fences.  Just as you would in the top 4 or 5.  At 6-10 maybe you can get the IDEAL fit since I think this is where most Option 3a and High Level 4th option guys are so if that’s what you need you can probably trade around a bit (and maybe these guys also would have lots of upside in your particular system).  But outside the first few picks you KNOW you are gambling.  So... bet on Ceiling/Archetype as much as Stats/Metrics/Interviews.  But a lot of this probably has to show up in interviews (or at least metrics).  
 

So what should we do?  Stock pile picks... even second rounders.  Draft more guys but stash more dudes overseas or put them on 2 way deals.  And if we actually like some of those Moneyball utility ‘lunchpail’ guys then get them by trading down or just buying a pick.  Go get players with enough upside that you won’t have to immediately draft over.

In the position we’re in now we should consolidate assets. We run the risk of being a worst Boston as currently constructed. Boston make shrewd moves and got a haul for Pierce and KG, Drafted 2 young Stars (our Ja/Jaren equivalent) then proceeded to not consolidate the rest of those assets into anything. They made safe moves, signing Gordon Hayward (Not his fault but he was basically their version of Chandler Parsons), trading Terry Rosier for Kyrie (Kyrie being a primary scorer didn’t fit with Tatum & Brown), then refused to push chips in the middle of the Table for AD or Harden. They could be sitting with Kyrie, AD and Harden competing for Championships for the next 4 years, instead they are about to possibly miss the playoffs no longer ahead of schedule with no more assets. 
 

This off-season is pivotal for the Grizzlies and their team building efforts. They need to consolidate assets and bring in a 3rd Star, then add veteran depth to this roster around Ja, Jaren and JV. You telling me Chicago wouldn’t have to seriously consider Kyle, BC & Melton + 3 1sts and 2 2nds for Lavine? Then float Everyone not Ja, Dillon, Jaren or JV to build a legit veteran team with shooting around that 5 and what’s left. We’d still have all our future 1sts so we aren’t mortgaging the future and would still have flexibility to go all in later. 
 

But we can’t get Lavine... ok What about Jamal Murray? Denver is winning at a high level without him adding high level depth might be on their mind. Lonzo Ball can be had in free agency, 40% 3 pt shooter who is a very good defender and can run backup PG as well. 
 

This isn’t the off-season for the Grizzlies to sit on their hands. Regardless of how the end of this season turns out.  

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26 minutes ago, King Dork said:

In the position we’re in now we should consolidate assets. We run the risk of being a worst Boston as currently constructed. Boston make shrewd moves and got a haul for Pierce and KG, Drafted 2 young Stars (our Ja/Jaren equivalent) then proceeded to not consolidate the rest of those assets into anything. They made safe moves, signing Gordon Hayward (Not his fault but he was basically their version of Chandler Parsons), trading Terry Rosier for Kyrie (Kyrie being a primary scorer didn’t fit with Tatum & Brown), then refused to push chips in the middle of the Table for AD or Harden. They could be sitting with Kyrie, AD and Harden competing for Championships for the next 4 years, instead they are about to possibly miss the playoffs no longer ahead of schedule with no more assets. 
 

This off-season is pivotal for the Grizzlies and their team building efforts. They need to consolidate assets and bring in a 3rd Star, then add veteran depth to this roster around Ja, Jaren and JV. You telling me Chicago wouldn’t have to seriously consider Kyle, BC & Melton + 3 1sts and 2 2nds for Lavine? Then float Everyone not Ja, Dillon, Jaren or JV to build a legit veteran team with shooting around that 5 and what’s left. We’d still have all our future 1sts so we aren’t mortgaging the future and would still have flexibility to go all in later. 
 

But we can’t get Lavine... ok What about Jamal Murray? Denver is winning at a high level without him adding high level depth might be on their mind. Lonzo Ball can be had in free agency, 40% 3 pt shooter who is a very good defender and can run backup PG as well. 
 

This isn’t the off-season for the Grizzlies to sit on their hands. Regardless of how the end of this season turns out.  

Trader Danny took “low ceiling guys” with all those mid-first round picks.  Should have taken bigger swings maybe.  
 

I am thinking we should make Godfather offers on some of the Restricted Free Agents.  Ironically, my top 2 guys might be Mikal Bridges and DeAndre Ayton (both Suns guys).  Pricey as heck, but a future Big 4 of Ja/Jaren/Mikal/Ayton would be nice (with Dillon Brooks rounding out our fab five).  Then still go for “upside guys” in the draft.  But if we sign Mikal AND Ayton (maybe the Suns don’t match front-loaded $30ish million contracts for both guys) then we can go BPA in the Draft from here on out since we would have Ja at point guard, Mikal/Dillon/Bane on the wing with a 3 big rotation of Jaren/Ayton/Jonas.  Trade BC/Melton/Tyus to the Knicks for their 2nd first rounder (24 I think) and a future 2nd round pick.  Also shop Grayson and Porter.  Play hard ball with Justise and his camp....  

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2 hours ago, toocoolkellz said:

I think that's just like saying my guy, it's not literal 

Its not a criticism, simply an observation. And so he should feel as he is one of the leaders, he's the currently the longest tenured player on the roster, and his performances this season have earned him the status

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1 hour ago, ALT GRIND said:

Trader Danny took “low ceiling guys” with all those mid-first round picks.  Should have taken bigger swings maybe.  
 

I am thinking we should make Godfather offers on some of the Restricted Free Agents.  Ironically, my top 2 guys might be Mikal Bridges and DeAndre Ayton (both Suns guys).  Pricey as heck, but a future Big 4 of Ja/Jaren/Mikal/Ayton would be nice (with Dillon Brooks rounding out our fab five).  Then still go for “upside guys” in the draft.  But if we sign Mikal AND Ayton (maybe the Suns don’t match front-loaded $30ish million contracts for both guys) then we can go BPA in the Draft from here on out since we would have Ja at point guard, Mikal/Dillon/Bane on the wing with a 3 big rotation of Jaren/Ayton/Jonas.  Trade BC/Melton/Tyus to the Knicks for their 2nd first rounder (24 I think) and a future 2nd round pick.  Also shop Grayson and Porter.  Play hard ball with Justise and his camp....  

We literally don’t have the money to do that. And even if we did, I wouldn’t 

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4 minutes ago, King Dork said:

We literally don’t have the money to do that. And even if we did, I wouldn’t 

Neither Ayton or Bridges are Restricted FAs this summer, but for some strange reason he keeps acting like we can bid for them this summer. It’s bizarre. 

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41 minutes ago, The J Crew said:

Neither Ayton or Bridges are Restricted FAs this summer, but for some strange reason he keeps acting like we can bid for them this summer. It’s bizarre. 

Like his obsession with Jaren now being 6th man

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1 hour ago, BigHunkALove said:

Its not a criticism, simply an observation. And so he should feel as he is one of the leaders, he's the currently the longest tenured player on the roster, and his performances this season have earned him the status

?

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3 hours ago, The J Crew said:

Neither Ayton or Bridges are Restricted FAs this summer, but for some strange reason he keeps acting like we can bid for them this summer. It’s bizarre. 

I thought we might make a decision on Jaren this summer.  Didn't know about Ayton/Mikal -- thought maybe it was the same for them.  Guess '22 is the free agent summer for us. The last few times that I looked at the '21 free agents I was very ... underwhelmed.  At some point, we are gonna have to spend the big bucks.  Even if that's just to resign our OWN guys.

If we shop Tyus Jones this off-season then I would think we sign a cheaper backup/3rd string point guard type.  I would look into Jarrett Jack.  He had a solid season with the G League Ignite.  I would also think about resigning Tim Frazier (if he knows our system).  That's if we don't try to draft our backup point guard of the future with the Blazers' second round pick.

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3 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

I thought we might make a decision on Jaren this summer.  Didn't know about Ayton/Mikal -- thought maybe it was the same for them.  Guess '22 is the free agent summer for us. The last few times that I looked at the '21 free agents I was very ... underwhelmed.  At some point, we are gonna have to spend the big bucks.  Even if that's just to resign our OWN guys.

If we shop Tyus Jones this off-season then I would think we sign a cheaper backup/3rd string point guard type.  I would look into Jarrett Jack.  He had a solid season with the G League Ignite.  I would also think about resigning Tim Frazier (if he knows our system).  That's if we don't try to draft our backup point guard of the future with the Blazers' second round pick.

Tim Frazier and Jarrett Jack ain’t the answer. 
 

If I’m looking for a cheap PG I’m trying to swipe Mike James from the Nets. But truth be told I’m really out of the cheap dude mindset. If we are going to try and get bargains we might as well keep what we have and run it back. It’s time to push some of the assets in the middle of the table and see what happens, not quite all in time but we can’t keep relying on the idea that we’re ahead of schedule because your only ahead of schedule until you’re not. 
 

Minnesota thought they were ahead of schedule, that was a lie. Boston thought they were ahead of schedule, that was a lie. 

We gotta make moves not dreams. 

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9 hours ago, The J Crew said:

Neither Ayton or Bridges are Restricted FAs this summer, but for some strange reason he keeps acting like we can bid for them this summer. It’s bizarre. 

How much money do we have this summer?

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7 minutes ago, grizzgolf said:

How much money do we have this summer?

Up to $27M (if we dump Winslow, Porter Jr. and our 1st round pick) if we go under the cap. Down to the MLE, BAE and rookie exception if we go over the cap.

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What could we realistically get for JJJ if we wanted to explore trade options?

 

A. JJJ + fillers/picks for Jaylen Brown?

B. Swap for DeAndre Hunter?

C. Swap for OG Anunoby?

D. Swap for Lu Dort + pick?

E. Swap for Mikal Bridges?

 

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13 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

n a cheaper backup/3rd string point guard type.  I would look into Jarrett Jack. 

If your backup's 37 years old, 38 next season, are you committing to draft his replacement right away?  Not that it would be a bad idea to draft a PG anyway. 

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8 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

Up to $27M (if we dump Winslow, Porter Jr. and our 1st round pick) if we go under the cap. Down to the MLE, BAE and rookie exception if we go over the cap.

I’d stop including giving up our 1st. You don’t give up 1sts for cap space, you’d drop Kyle’s contract before you give up a 1st. 

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18 hours ago, King Dork said:

We literally don’t have the money to do that. And even if we did, I wouldn’t 

If we don’t recommit to jv either this summer or new contract next, then we will need to do something drastic at 5.  Jaren is not the answer, and I see the bigs coming in as bigger, stronger and even more agile.

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8 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

If we don’t recommit to jv either this summer or new contract next, then we will need to do something drastic at 5.  Jaren is not the answer, and I see the bigs coming in as bigger, stronger and even more agile.

If JV takes another contract for the same money cool. If he doesn’t, I’d trade him too ??‍♂️. The key to this team’s success is unlocking Ja, and for that you need spacing. JV is an excellent C but he also clogs the paint, get a C who can stretch the floor. Maybe the Warriors would take JV and a pick for Wiseman. 

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30 minutes ago, King Dork said:

If JV takes another contract for the same money cool. If he doesn’t, I’d trade him too ??‍♂️. The key to this team’s success is unlocking Ja, and for that you need spacing. JV is an excellent C but he also clogs the paint, get a C who can stretch the floor. Maybe the Warriors would take JV and a pick for Wiseman. 

Jonas doesn't clog the paint. It's his job to be our primary low post scorer, not space the floor. And he shot 37% from 3. The spacing will have to come from improved perimeter shooting, which includes Ja too.

The Jazz hit most three-pointers made per game in NBA history this season - 16.8 per game. And had the league's best record. And Rudy Gobert started every game but one, playing 71 games. And Gobert hit exactly zero 3-pointers this season. 

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47 minutes ago, King Dork said:

I’d stop including giving up our 1st. You don’t give up 1sts for cap space, you’d drop Kyle’s contract before you give up a 1st. 

But you can't drop his contract. You'd have to trade him to a team with cap space first, and that could easily cost a pick.

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11 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

But you can't drop his contract. You'd have to trade him to a team with cap space first, and that could easily cost a pick.

You are correct. But we aren’t giving up a 1st for nothing so, so talking about dumping a 1st is ridiculous. We will probably have 24 Mil in cap space unless we make moves to shed salary. 

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