Ole Dirty Klondike

Jaren and Justise Still Recovering, Will Not Be Ready for Season Start

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The troll is out in full force clearly. The guy just said the Memphis Grizzlies Twitter account isn't the Memphis Grizzlies Twitter account. That's got to be an all time low. Yes, it was Grind City Media (who is owned by the Grizzlies), but it was posted on the official Grizzlies account. 

Being ignorant shouldn't be a character trait, yet here we are. That's all he brings. What's the argument? That you still don't know who the GCM people are, you can't tell what a verified Twitter account is, or you are clearly just a troll?

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31 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I think Taylor really likes Grayson in starting lineup because he favors him; and i think the players like him because he isnt a rookie.    I am cool with Grayson starting but after  the bubble i no longer think he is starting material.   As someone else pointed out our perimeter defense was pretty bad.   We need either solid defenders at both wing spots or at least one elite defender.   Because Ja isn't good on defense and JV isn't good enough to cover up for that.  A healthy Justise skillset really really balances out that starting lineup.    He should be a great fit with Dillon, Bane or Grayson.  It's just so frustrating that he can't stay healthy.   Ultimately, i think wing rotation should settle into Dillon, Justise,  Melton and Bane.  Grayson and Konchar should be just depth and Kyle traded or used at the 4. 

Starting 4 all i hope is that Taylor doesn't resort to Kyle.   I'd like to see what Tillman could do or even give Brandon another shot.   

 

I agree, that is why we should try Bane/Dillon the wings, our defense should be better. If not, go with Justise as soon as he is able to play. 

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13 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I think Taylor really likes Grayson in starting lineup because he favors him; and i think the players like him because he isnt a rookie.    I am cool with Grayson starting but after  the bubble i no longer think he is starting material.   As someone else pointed out our perimeter defense was pretty bad.   We need either solid defenders at both wing spots or at least one elite defender.   Because Ja isn't good on defense and JV isn't good enough to cover up for that.  A healthy Justise skillset really really balances out that starting lineup.    He should be a great fit with Dillon, Bane or Grayson.  It's just so frustrating that he can't stay healthy.   Ultimately, i think wing rotation should settle into Dillon, Justise,  Melton and Bane.  Grayson and Konchar should be just depth and Kyle traded or used at the 4. 

Starting 4 all i hope is that Taylor doesn't resort to Kyle.   I'd like to see what Tillman could do or even give Brandon another shot.   

 

I thought Grayson did well in the bubble, and he's said on multiple occasions that he is putting in work on the defensive side, which I appreciate. He's probably never going to be an elite defender as he's not super quick laterally, but he can certainly be a league average defender, which would be fine. He was overall a positive in the bubble. He was +10.5 in box +/-, with a 119 offensive rating (very good), and a 114 defensive rating (not great, but not that bad). That offensive rating would've been 3rd on the team, and the defensive rating is still better than guys like Lillard, McCollum, Beal, and Reddick. Not to mention he shot over 50% from the floor and 48% from 3.

Either way, if I had to guess, he is certainly the guy I see starting there to start the season. For the 4, Kyle makes sense because of his defense. Tillman is a 5 in my mind. Brandon is the most talented, but we know about the fit with JV, maybe they still give it another shot. Porter can stretch the floor and is a good passer, but there's no saying if he's ready to play or quick enough still to guard 4s. Brandon or Kyle are my guesses there, with Kyle maybe getting the edge because of defense and secondary playmaking, and more willingness to shoot the 3 than Brandon. 

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31 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

I thought Grayson did well in the bubble, and he's said on multiple occasions that he is putting in work on the defensive side, which I appreciate. He's probably never going to be an elite defender as he's not super quick laterally, but he can certainly be a league average defender, which would be fine. He was overall a positive in the bubble. He was +10.5 in box +/-, with a 119 offensive rating (very good), and a 114 defensive rating (not great, but not that bad). That offensive rating would've been 3rd on the team, and the defensive rating is still better than guys like Lillard, McCollum, Beal, and Reddick. Not to mention he shot over 50% from the floor and 48% from 3.

Either way, if I had to guess, he is certainly the guy I see starting there to start the season. For the 4, Kyle makes sense because of his defense. Tillman is a 5 in my mind. Brandon is the most talented, but we know about the fit with JV, maybe they still give it another shot. Porter can stretch the floor and is a good passer, but there's no saying if he's ready to play or quick enough still to guard 4s. Brandon or Kyle are my guesses there, with Kyle maybe getting the edge because of defense and secondary playmaking, and more willingness to shoot the 3 than Brandon. 

Grayson shooting is nice but defensively he isn't a good pairing with Ja + Dillon.   If Justise was starting then it wouldn't be an issue but we need better balance defensively on perimeter.   Dillon gives a lot of effort on defense but he is really only an average defender.   Ja + Grayson is a very poor defensive backcourt and we don't have the frontcourt to make up for that.   That's why Grayson could not be a longterm starter next to Ja.   If Bane shows to be a real shooter he is a better fit at SG over Grayson due to his physical profile and good defensive history from college.  However, Justise is really the key due to his elite defense and solid playmaking.   Those skills should compliment Ja's weaknesses really well. 

You are probably right about Kyle - i am just sick of seeing him in the starting lineup by defacto. 

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1 hour ago, Rdk4121 said:

The troll is out in full force clearly. The guy just said the Memphis Grizzlies Twitter account isn't the Memphis Grizzlies Twitter account. That's got to be an all time low. Yes, it was Grind City Media (who is owned by the Grizzlies), but it was posted on the official Grizzlies account. 

Being ignorant shouldn't be a character trait, yet here we are. That's all he brings. What's the argument? That you still don't know who the GCM people are, you can't tell what a verified Twitter account is, or you are clearly just a troll?

More name calling from the guy who supposedly has me on ignore, lol. 

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11 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Grayson shooting is nice but defensively he isn't a good pairing with Ja + Dillon.   If Justise was starting then it wouldn't be an issue but we need better balance defensively on perimeter.   Dillon gives a lot of effort on defense but he is really only an average defender.   Ja + Grayson is a very poor defensive backcourt and we don't have the frontcourt to make up for that.   That's why Grayson could not be a longterm starter next to Ja.   If Bane shows to be a real shooter he is a better fit at SG over Grayson due to his physical profile and good defensive history from college.  However, Justise is really the key due to his elite defense and solid playmaking.   Those skills should compliment Ja's weaknesses really well. 

You are probably right about Kyle - i am just sick of seeing him in the starting lineup by defacto. 

Agree Grayson is not a starter on a good team. 

Maybe Bane will be, who knows. Track record for 30th picks being starters on winning teams isn't great. But let's hope we struck gold. 

Justise - I'm not convinced. He's really had one good season in his 5 season career, and then only got up to a 12.8 PER. 

Dillon starts by default.

DeAnthony probably gets another shot at starting at some point. 

All goes back to we probably don't have the starting two on our next playoff team on our roster yet. 

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56 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

I agree, that is why we should try Bane/Dillon the wings, our defense should be better. If not, go with Justise as soon as he is able to play. 

Taylor played with the starting lineups last pre season. I bet he tries the Bane/Dillon at 2 and 3 at least one of our 4 pre season games.

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35 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Grayson shooting is nice but defensively he isn't a good pairing with Ja + Dillon.   If Justise was starting then it wouldn't be an issue but we need better balance defensively on perimeter.   Dillon gives a lot of effort on defense but he is really only an average defender.   Ja + Grayson is a very poor defensive backcourt and we don't have the frontcourt to make up for that.   That's why Grayson could not be a longterm starter next to Ja.   If Bane shows to be a real shooter he is a better fit at SG over Grayson due to his physical profile and good defensive history from college.  However, Justise is really the key due to his elite defense and solid playmaking.   Those skills should compliment Ja's weaknesses really well. 

You are probably right about Kyle - i am just sick of seeing him in the starting lineup by defacto. 

I agree to an extent, but the only other option is Melton, but he doesn't really give you any spacing per se. Doubtful Bane will start because he's only going to have like two weeks to learn all the offensive and defensive concepts of the team. That's just a tough task to ask. If Melton does start, they really need to start someone at the 4 that can stretch the floor, so Porter would be my pick in that case.

With either Brandon or Kyle (both of which are good defenders), Grayson makes the most sense as a starter to me. Given the rumor that Grayson is I guess the "front-runner" at the 2, it's likely they go defense with Kyle. 

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1 hour ago, Rdk4121 said:

I thought Grayson did well in the bubble, and he's said on multiple occasions that he is putting in work on the defensive side, which I appreciate. He's probably never going to be an elite defender as he's not super quick laterally, but he can certainly be a league average defender, which would be fine. He was overall a positive in the bubble. He was +10.5 in box +/-, with a 119 offensive rating (very good), and a 114 defensive rating (not great, but not that bad). That offensive rating would've been 3rd on the team, and the defensive rating is still better than guys like Lillard, McCollum, Beal, and Reddick. Not to mention he shot over 50% from the floor and 48% from 3.

Either way, if I had to guess, he is certainly the guy I see starting there to start the season. For the 4, Kyle makes sense because of his defense. Tillman is a 5 in my mind. Brandon is the most talented, but we know about the fit with JV, maybe they still give it another shot. Porter can stretch the floor and is a good passer, but there's no saying if he's ready to play or quick enough still to guard 4s. Brandon or Kyle are my guesses there, with Kyle maybe getting the edge because of defense and secondary playmaking, and more willingness to shoot the 3 than Brandon. 

I recall a long time ago during my sophmore year my end exit meeting with coaching staff.

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not sure why that happened..but anyway I intended to say,

I thought I had a pretty decent season, but I had my challenges with  fitting in with one of the better players when we were on court together.  It wasn't personalities, it was how we each thought differently on ball movement and our roles when on the court together. 

SO re JV and BC and their perceived lack of chemistry...my learning was they have to make it work in these situations, work with each others strengths, recognize what each other do well and go from there...otherwise it may be that one or both of us get limited time because we didn't figure it out.  I sense that BC's growth in his BBIQ during the off-season and early this season will show big strides in playing together...they will make it work.

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6 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

not sure why that happened..but anyway I intended to say,

I thought I had a pretty decent season, but I had my challenges with  fitting in with one of the better players when we were on court together.  It wasn't personalities, it was how we each thought differently on ball movement and our roles when on the court together. 

SO re JV and BC and their perceived lack of chemistry...my learning was they have to make it work in these situations, work with each others strengths, recognize what each other do well and go from there...otherwise it may be that one or both of us get limited time because we didn't figure it out.  I sense that BC's growth in his BBIQ during the off-season and early this season will show big strides in playing together...they will make it work.

I think it's really just because there games are fairly similar as to why it hasn't worked. Pick and rolls, paint touches, not many threes. They both work really well with Jaren, as he prefers the perimeter anyway. 

They're both good, but work better without each other. They really haven't had a lot of time to figure out why it didn't work since the bubble, so we'll see if they can make it work. I know Dieng and Brandon played really well off the bench together last year, those two with Tyus, Melton, and Bane gives us a legit bench in my mind. 

I see them working in Tillman and Porter (while phasing Dieng out) as the season progresses, but that's what I think will happen out of the gate. Obviously a lot of things change when Justise and Jaren get back as well. 

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7 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

I think it's really just because there games are fairly similar as to why it hasn't worked. Pick and rolls, paint touches, not many threes. They both work really well with Jaren, as he prefers the perimeter anyway. 

They're both good, but work better without each other. They really haven't had a lot of time to figure out why it didn't work since the bubble, so we'll see if they can make it work. I know Dieng and Brandon played really well off the bench together last year, those two with Tyus, Melton, and Bane gives us a legit bench in my mind. 

I see them working in Tillman and Porter (while phasing Dieng out) as the season progresses, but that's what I think will happen out of the gate. Obviously a lot of things change when Justise and Jaren get back as well. 

JV/Tillman can be Marc/Z Bo 2.0.  Clarke and Tillie should be a good combo off the bench — did they have good chemistry at Gonzaga???

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On 12/9/2020 at 10:08 AM, GrizzTigerFan said:

Because Ja isn't good on defense and JV isn't good enough to cover up for that. 

This part kind of stands out to me ... how can we say that he isn’t good on defense?

Based on what , exactly?

He played one shortened season as the face of a franchise AND a rookie (of the year) and we’ve already seen enough to declare that he’s not good on defense?

I believe that Ja is working on every aspect of his game. This is based off of what he was showing week to week on the floor.

They said he couldn’t shoot... he never claimed to be Steph but he took and hit them at a pretty good clip in pressure situations against established seasoned NBA players.

They said he was too frail... he still got on that rim through contact regularly... and spectacularly.

Just one game but it was a good one ... 
 

Grizz  vs Nets...

Kyrie vs Ja ...

end game situation at home 

kyrie with the ball and a chance to win ... got Ja in isolation... 

jabbed and reset ... fancy for real handles ... pump faked and Ja did not fall for the okie doke... stayed down arms raised then blocked the bumps off the ball...

no foul

no skates

no fear

no problem

he’s got the tools of this eras small fast pgs 

he will be fine on defense against pgs...

point guards that read and jump passing lanes get steals and are trumpeted as defensive ballers

blocks are rare for the position 

if he gets beat or is pushed down low guarding a big - we should have a defensive scheme that would recognize that and help should be there.

if JV really is that much of a defensive liability I would expect coach to have a plan to go to

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This is my favorite thread 

lots of good stuff here

i have already saved it to get my I told you so s this season!

this season’s is going to be a blast!

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I think we should go with JV/Tillman inside.  They can probably dominate the glass and own the paint (on both sides of the ball).  Tillman can pass.  And both bigs can shoot it a little bit.  Set bone jarring picks.  Lay the smack down on defense — hard fouls — no dunks/layups!!!  Dillon/Bane on the wings give us two power guys who should be able to bully smaller defenders.  Dillon is a solid scorer at this point while Bane has a great rep as a shooter.  Ja/Bane/Dillon/Tillman/Jonas should be a great starting five.  Clarke can be our ideal 6th man (and yeah he needs to play some 3 to give us solid value after his rookie contract).  I expect to start off the year on a 50 win pace before Jaren and Winslow come back and gum up the works.

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man, i don't know if I can tolerate the guys over at grizzly bear blues (mostly joe mullinax) much more and their overly biased preseason coverage/opinions, SMH

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On 12/5/2020 at 8:01 PM, srmjr23 said:

Someone else having the same opinion doesn't mean you're right though.

you are 100 percent right 

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19 hours ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

This part kind of stands out to me ... how can we say that he isn’t good on defense?

Based on what , exactly?

He played one shortened season as the face of a franchise AND a rookie (of the year) and we’ve already seen enough to declare that he’s not good on defense?

I believe that Ja is working on every aspect of his game. This is based off of what he was showing week to week on the floor.

They said he couldn’t shoot... he never claimed to be Steph but he took and hit them at a pretty good clip in pressure situations against established seasoned NBA players.

They said he was too frail... he still got on that rim through contact regularly... and spectacularly.

Just one game but it was a good one ... 
 

Grizz  vs Nets...

Kyrie vs Ja ...

end game situation at home 

kyrie with the ball and a chance to win ... got Ja in isolation... 

jabbed and reset ... fancy for real handles ... pump faked and Ja did not fall for the okie doke... stayed down arms raised then blocked the bumps off the ball...

no foul

no skates

no fear

no problem

he’s got the tools of this eras small fast pgs 

he will be fine on defense against pgs...

point guards that read and jump passing lanes get steals and are trumpeted as defensive ballers

blocks are rare for the position 

if he gets beat or is pushed down low guarding a big - we should have a defensive scheme that would recognize that and help should be there.

if JV really is that much of a defensive liability I would expect coach to have a plan to go to

I am not saying that Ja cannot become a capable defender.  But from his college days to his rookie pro year he was not a good defender at all.  His defensive metrics (drtg 108) and eye test (routinely died on screens and was out of place on defense) demonstrated that fact.   

He had spurts throughout the season of having impactful defensive plays but his rail thin body and lack of focus on that end were usually liabilities.   That's why it will and has been important to pair him with a good defender.   

I am rooting for him to get better but he has such a huge offensive load that i do not expect him to ever become much better.  

JV is mostly a defensive liability due to modern NBA being so PnRoll and 3pt shot heavy.   His physical profile wouldve been perfect for the 90s NBA just not in the modern era.   His inabilty to chase guys from perimeter or trap guys in PnRoll is the reason why he usually didn't close games.  

Both guys are obviously great players but it is what it is. 

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11 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I am not saying that Ja cannot become a capable defender.  But from his college days to his rookie pro year he was not a good defender at all.  His defensive metrics (drtg 108) and eye test (routinely died on screens and was out of place on defense) demonstrated that fact.   

JV is mostly a defensive liability due to modern NBA being so PnRoll and 3pt shot heavy.   His physical profile wouldve been perfect for the 90s NBA just not in the modern era.   His inabilty to chase guys from perimeter or trap guys in PnRoll is the reason why he usually didn't close games.  

Both guys are obviously great players but it is what it is. 

Come on. Jonas is a very good defender. His career DRtg is 106, which is excellent. Marc Gasol's is 105, and he was Defensive POY one year. I love Brevin, but his beating up on Jonas for dropping too low on PnRs has give some Grizz fans the wrong impression about Jonas as a defender. And Taylor went with the small lineup to close games a lot post ASB, but it's not like we tore it up doing that. We only won 6 games post ASB, and had the worst record in the bubble. Maybe we'd be better off leaving Jonas in?

Ja will be ok. He got better throughout the season. He competes. NBA team defenses are a lot different than college. 16 foot lanes versus 12 foot lanes in college. No defensive 3 seconds in college. 

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13 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I am not saying that Ja cannot become a capable defender.  But from his college days to his rookie pro year he was not a good defender at all.  His defensive metrics (drtg 108) and eye test (routinely died on screens and was out of place on defense) demonstrated that fact.   

He had spurts throughout the season of having impactful defensive plays but his rail thin body and lack of focus on that end were usually liabilities.   That's why it will and has been important to pair him with a good defender.   

I am rooting for him to get better but he has such a huge offensive load that i do not expect him to ever become much better.  

JV is mostly a defensive liability due to modern NBA being so PnRoll and 3pt shot heavy.   His physical profile wouldve been perfect for the 90s NBA just not in the modern era.   His inabilty to chase guys from perimeter or trap guys in PnRoll is the reason why he usually didn't close games.  

Both guys are obviously great players but it is what it is. 

well then we have an issue getting to a contender, since the elite teams historically can shut down and play good D when they need to.  So Ja, JV are incomplete players...Is there anyone in our top 7 that can be counted on game in and out at a couple of positions?...  I am thinking in the past with the likes of Garnett, Pippen, kobe...maybe in todays game Kawhi or a poor man's Annoby..  We need that role filled on this team going forward

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2 hours ago, Lugan Village said:

well then we have an issue getting to a contender, since the elite teams historically can shut down and play good D when they need to.  So Ja, JV are incomplete players...Is there anyone in our top 7 that can be counted on game in and out at a couple of positions?...  I am thinking in the past with the likes of Garnett, Pippen, kobe...maybe in todays game Kawhi or a poor man's Annoby..  We need that role filled on this team going forward

I think we are hoping that Jaren and Winslow and Clarke can do some of that.  Multi-dimensional defense is important.

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On 11/20/2020 at 1:12 AM, Dwash said:

I think we need a pure scorer.. A killer. 

Weren't we looking for this kind of guy since the Rudy Gay trade?

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