Grizzhype

New Official 2021 Grind City Draft Thread & Lottery Picks Watch!

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15 minutes ago, Dwash said:

A center that I think would fit as a mid 2nd round pick is Jay Huff from Virginia. Older, 7'1", respectable mobility and can shoot. And played for a great program.. 

I don’t too much care if the big can shoot we have so any varieties of bigs the only one that is missing is the big rim runner shot blocker high energy guy. And with that late second that’s what I would target. I’m just so tired of JV being the tallest guy on the team being totally incapable of protecting the rim the way he plays defense in the paint makes no sense to me

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42 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

I don’t too much care if the big can shoot we have so any varieties of bigs the only one that is missing is the big rim runner shot blocker high energy guy. And with that late second that’s what I would target. I’m just so tired of JV being the tallest guy on the team being totally incapable of protecting the rim the way he plays defense in the paint makes no sense to me

Honestly that guy is gonna have to be Jaren in today's game. 

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24 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Honestly that guy is gonna have to be Jaren in today's game. 

Yea low skilled Bigs are quickly becoming a thing of the past.   Everyone thought smallball was gonna be the end of true Bigs but all that did was force the Bigs to adjust.    Basically modern Bigs are just old skool Euro Bigs with more athleticism.  

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Is Ibou Dianko-Badji worth a look in the mid/late first?  I have him super high but all I have seen are random highlights and interviews.  Looks uber-long and athletic/mobile for a guy his size.  He’s the classic Dunk/Block archetype guy.  
 

Not a great draft for rim runners/rim protectors.  The only other player like that would be Jericho Sims although maybe he is only 6’10 (or even 6’9) but I like his toughness, motor, and explosiveness.  Good rebounding too to go along with Dunk/Block skills.  Maybe he’s worth a look even as high as 15-20.  
 

Ironically, not actually a good draft for “shooters”.  Who has the quickest shot?  Joe Weiskamp might be a solid value at some point, basically a Moneyball version of Corey Kispert.  Since we have two picks let’s get a “shooter” as well as a “rim runner/rim protector”.  I also like some point guards so maybe we should draft one of those if we buy a pick.  Another dude who’s under the radar popped up on my Advanced Stats top 25.  (I will post the list soon — might also post last year’s list.)

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The big I’m most intrigued by (Other than Mobley) is Alperen Segun.  Tankathon has him top 10 but a lot of other mocks seem to have him in the later parts of the first round.  

Looks like a talented post scorer with good efficiency, gets some assists/steals/blocks too.   Could become a player with some similar strengths to Valanciunas.   If he does drop into our draft range, he’d be an interesting bpa type pick imo. 

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11 hours ago, costarica2 said:

I this point we have to start scouting the Brandon Clarkes/ Desmond Banes of the world in 8 to 17 range.

-high character 

-college expereince

-production

James Bouknight, Corey Kispert, Davion Mitchell, Ayo Dosunmu and Jared Butler are probably the answers.

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Anybody familiar with Josh Giddy?

 

Quote

Who’s Hot

Josh Giddey (02, 6-8. G, Adelaide 36ers)

The Australian prospect has drawn a great deal of interest, and that was the case even before the season started. Which makes sense considering 6-foot-8 point guards with elite court vision don’t come too often. Watching him shine in the NBL, one can understand why scouts are extremely high on him, but he’s clearly an unfinished product.

As a 6-8 point guard, Giddey is more of a facilitator than a scorer. He is actually too unselfish at times and can become too focused on passing instead of searching for his shot. His court vision though is special. He can pass with either hand and knows how to get all of his teammates involved, and at the same time he is starting to look more for his shot.

He is shooting just 40.8% from the floor (30.2% on 3s) and under 70% on free throws with shaky shooting mechanics, which makes him reluctant to shoot the ball, a la Ben Simmons. There will certainly be teams that feel they can work with him and reconstruct his shot. But for now, it remains a real concern regarding his NBA scoring ability and long term potential. With that being  said, at some point Giddey’s all around skill set and potential as a facilitator at the next level is just too good to pass up.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Anybody familiar with Josh Giddy?

 

 

 

As we move further outside the lotto he should be a player we look at as a BPA pick.  Wish he could shoot better.  In his highlights his shot looks ok — just doesn’t go in too much.  Nor is he much of a defender or athlete it appears.  Good size and looks like a pure playmaker.  Even if he is only a Deluxe Slo Mo type then you take that.  I kinda think he is better than Franz Wagner.  I like Vrenz out of Belgium, MAYBE Kai Jones more in that range but that could be about it.  Also, Ibou Badji but yeah maybe he gives off Hasheem Thabeet vibes.  
 

I think BPA is something that maybe shouldn’t matter as much.  If we want a “BPA” type maybe we should just buy an extra second round pick and base our selection off analytics and workouts and interviews.  I kinda want to pick guys based on UPSIDE.  Vrenz, Badji and Giddey are “upside” guys.  Isaiah Todd is another “upside” guy I like but at least his shot translated in the G League fairly well and he is a solid athlete for a 6’10 combo forward.  I also have him really high on my big board at 10.  
 

If we want a “high floor/low ceiling” utility player like Joel Ayayi or Aaron Henry or Ochai Agbaji then maybe we should buy a mid/late second rounder then try to get two of Vrenz/Badji/Todd/Giddey with our first and the Blazers second.  

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I wouldn't mind Usman Garuba with our first-round pick if it's mid-teens. Good size, defensive big with an outside shot which can improve (has a quite good jumper).

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1 minute ago, JWill4L said:

I wouldn't mind Usman Garuba with our first-round pick if it's mid-teens. Good size, defensive big with an outside shot which can improve (has a quite good jumper).

He sounds like a solid prospect with upside.  He was higher on boards then fell a bit with all the high end college/G League guys with buzz.  Maybe Garuba is moving back up.  He’s a 4 like Clarke and Tillman but if Garuba has “upside” I can definitely see him being BPA around 20 or so...  sounds like he would be a good fit with Jaden.  Or JV if we wanna reprise Grit ‘n Grind.

 

Ironically, my faves at this point (outside of maybe 5 or 6 guys) are all imports: Vrenz, Giddey and Badji with Garuda looking solid.  Not as sold on Alperen Sengun (not a 3 point shooter nor a rim runner/rim protector).  Not one of my top guys at 18-20ish and he probably won’t be there at 52.  Roko Prkacin or Amar Sylla could be decent draft/stash options at 52.  I am sure some other import “sleepers” will start getting some draft buzz too.

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3 hours ago, JWill4L said:

I wouldn't mind Usman Garuba with our first-round pick if it's mid-teens. Good size, defensive big with an outside shot which can improve (has a quite good jumper).

Is he declaring for the draft? I think he would benefit from staying another season in Spain and getting higher in the draft.

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1 hour ago, fanboyslim said:

Is he declaring for the draft? I think he would benefit from staying another season in Spain and getting higher in the draft.

He's in mocks at least, mainly mid-teens. With Deck in Oklahoma probably he'll have more playing time. Wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't declare and goes late lottery next year. Or if he has an amazing end of season and decides to declare now. We'll see.

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2 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

Is he declaring for the draft? I think he would benefit from staying another season in Spain and getting higher in the draft.

I saw Garuba higher up on draft boards last year and even 2 years ago.  Not sure staying overseas another year is gonna help especially if a 3 point shot never materialized.  Maybe he is what he is at this point and is never gonna be a top 5 pick.  And with a fluid draft outside the top 5 or so it’s a good time as any to enter the draft.  Some great workouts and interviews could probably rocket him back up into the 6-12 range (which is where he was a year or so ago).

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9 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

I saw Garuba higher up on draft boards last year and even 2 years ago.  Not sure staying overseas another year is gonna help especially if a 3 point shot never materialized.  Maybe he is what he is at this point and is never gonna be a top 5 pick.  And with a fluid draft outside the top 5 or so it’s a good time as any to enter the draft.  Some great workouts and interviews could probably rocket him back up into the 6-12 range (which is where he was a year or so ago).

Garuba is not going to workout with anyone, same as Doncic didn't workout with anyone. Spanish league play-offs are quite more important for players here than doing drills in Minnesota.

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1 hour ago, JWill4L said:

Garuba is not going to workout with anyone, same as Doncic didn't workout with anyone. Spanish league play-offs are quite more important for players here than doing drills in Minnesota.

You know Alt Grind is very skeptical about 19 year olds' ability to improve. He also thought Luka probably was who he was at the time of the draft.

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7 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

You know Alt Grind is very skeptical about 19 year olds' ability to improve. He also thought Luka probably was who he was at the time of the draft.

Yeah, Luka did Luka things for years and is still doing them.  He has upped his usage anymore and is averaging video game stats (although he averaged video game stats LAST season too), but he is mainly the same guy his super fans projected him to be.  I haven’t watched him too closely but I am sure he has incrementally improved in a ton of areas — just never “exponentially improved” like Giannis or another freak late bloomer.  Ok, I had Luka way too low in my draft board.  My comparison for him at the time was Rick Barry — and in his third year in the ABA Rick Barry averaged 34/9/4 shooting 30.0% from 3.  The NBA is basically the ABA 2.0 at this point and Luka’s stats compare very favorably to Rick’s — with Luka continuing to post better assist numbers.  Rick Barry was known as a nifty passer but also known as a ball hog so I am guessing he didn’t like to share the rock too much.  Has Luka “exponentially” improved on his weaknesses, ie 3 point shooting, somewhat chubby physique, strangely mediocre free throw shooting, defense and relatively high turnovers?  Probably not.  Although he has incrementally improved and I still think he can take the “next step” in several facets of the game.  
 

... LeBron is who we thought he was.  Durant was who I thought he was.  Each guy still got better.  But the frame work was apparent.  Zion is... who most of his fan boys thought he was but a guy with the same weaknesses going way back (chubby, lack of an outside shot) with more questions now about his defense and with fairly mediocre defensive rebounding.  Me personally, I thought he would be Elgin Baylor 2.0.  Probably still my comp.  

 

For Garuba, the longer he stays overseas the less hype he might get UNLESS he shows exponential improvement.  That is, I don’t see the Net Present Value of his draft stock changing too much.  You can probably sell me on him being a pick as high as 4-6 in THIS draft but I can make a case for probably 10-15 guys to be at least considered that high.  I still have the “big four” of Green/Mobley/Cade/Suggs at least in the top 10.  I also have 3 imports highly rated (Vrenz/Badji/Giddey) at least in the lotto or even top 8.  I am thinking that Barnes/Jalen Johnson/Kuminga are somewhere in the mix but below the Big Four as well as my favorite 3 imports.  I would probably have Garuba, Sengun and Roko Prkacin a bit lower since they are more 4’s than 5’s and aren’t great at perimeter shooting or rim protection.  The point guards are probably a bit underrated but getting less so.  Corey Kispert was probably underrated then severely overrated and maybe now he is severely UNDERrated.  Still looking at the secondary group of 3 point shooters — basically, how high can you draft Joe Weiskamp?  Does Max Abmas have enough size and defense?  Is Johnny Juzang for real?  What about Quentin Grimes?  

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54 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

Yeah, Luka did Luka things for years and is still doing them.  He has upped his usage anymore and is averaging video game stats (although he averaged video game stats LAST season too), but he is mainly the same guy his super fans projected him to be.  I haven’t watched him too closely but I am sure he has incrementally improved in a ton of areas — just never “exponentially improved” like Giannis or another freak late bloomer.  Ok, I had Luka way too low in my draft board.  My comparison for him at the time was Rick Barry — and in his third year in the ABA Rick Barry averaged 34/9/4 shooting 30.0% from 3.  The NBA is basically the ABA 2.0 at this point and Luka’s stats compare very favorably to Rick’s — with Luka continuing to post better assist numbers.  Rick Barry was known as a nifty passer but also known as a ball hog so I am guessing he didn’t like to share the rock too much.  Has Luka “exponentially” improved on his weaknesses, ie 3 point shooting, somewhat chubby physique, strangely mediocre free throw shooting, defense and relatively high turnovers?  Probably not.  Although he has incrementally improved and I still think he can take the “next step” in several facets of the game.  
 

... LeBron is who we thought he was.  Durant was who I thought he was.  Each guy still got better.  But the frame work was apparent.  Zion is... who most of his fan boys thought he was but a guy with the same weaknesses going way back (chubby, lack of an outside shot) with more questions now about his defense and with fairly mediocre defensive rebounding.  Me personally, I thought he would be Elgin Baylor 2.0.  Probably still my comp.  

 

For Garuba, the longer he stays overseas the less hype he might get UNLESS he shows exponential improvement.  That is, I don’t see the Net Present Value of his draft stock changing too much.  You can probably sell me on him being a pick as high as 4-6 in THIS draft but I can make a case for probably 10-15 guys to be at least considered that high.  I still have the “big four” of Green/Mobley/Cade/Suggs at least in the top 10.  I also have 3 imports highly rated (Vrenz/Badji/Giddey) at least in the lotto or even top 8.  I am thinking that Barnes/Jalen Johnson/Kuminga are somewhere in the mix but below the Big Four as well as my favorite 3 imports.  I would probably have Garuba, Sengun and Roko Prkacin a bit lower since they are more 4’s than 5’s and aren’t great at perimeter shooting or rim protection.  The point guards are probably a bit underrated but getting less so.  Corey Kispert was probably underrated then severely overrated and maybe now he is severely UNDERrated.  Still looking at the secondary group of 3 point shooters — basically, how high can you draft Joe Weiskamp?  Does Max Abmas have enough size and defense?  Is Johnny Juzang for real?  What about Quentin Grimes?  

I agree 100% about Luka...at the time of the draft he was Euroleague MVP at 18...He was LeBron for everyone in Europe...In the USA he was white and fat...not enough athletic ability ...2 GM'S passed on him...lost their jobs....  Garuba is more Dragon Bender than Luka...no one is going to lose a job because of Garuba

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1 hour ago, I❤️JV said:

I agree 100% about Luka...at the time of the draft he was Euroleague MVP at 18...He was LeBron for everyone in Europe...In the USA he was white and fat...not enough athletic ability ...2 GM'S passed on him...lost their jobs....  Garuba is more Dragon Bender than Luka...no one is going to lose a job because of Garuba

Dragan Bender was nobody in Europe when he got drafted. Garuba at least is a rotation player in a TOP8 Euroleague team putting 1,5 Defensive Win Shares in the ACB league leader. 

Not that your statement is not true, but probably Dragan Bender is not a good comparison either. 

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Gimme some interesting names at 52.  I wanna go with “upside/ceiling” with both picks (our 1st/Portland 2nd).  If we wanna get a BPA/Analytics/Workout Warrior we should buy a late first round pick or a second rounder.  
 

If we don’t go BIG in round 1, what about Kai Sotto as an option at 52?  Some upside to go with skills and he has already played in the G League.  Maybe we can draft him and leave him there for another year.  Maybe he can be our secondary backup stretch big man of the future to replace Killian Tillie.  Not a great draft for high-end bigs — and the secondary and even tertiary bigs might be gone by the late second round.  Isaiah Mobley is another interesting lower tier big man but I am not even sure he is leaving “school”.  

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On 1/28/2021 at 12:32 PM, Ndq0327 said:

Tre Mann isn’t even listed in the 1st round yet but I wouldn’t mind him either a 6’6 combo guard from Florida 

 

I like Tre Mann too.

  • Incredible improvement from his Freshman to Sophmore years.  I like to see guys who have proven they can improve because they are going to need to improve to succeed in the NBA.  Part of what I liked about Brandon Clarke.
  • Good shooter from 3 and FT projects to be a good shooter in the NBA.  Also, most of his 3PAs were off the dribble and not just catch and shoot 3s like Kispert or Moody.  He was 32 of 78 (41%) on off the dribble 3s.  That is very good.  Also shot a lot of deep 3's so that bodes really well for his shooting to translate to the next level.
  • Has the potential to be a good, versatile defender.  
  • Competes on the boards.

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8 hours ago, kevofrommempho said:

I like Tre Mann too.

  • Incredible improvement from his Freshman to Sophmore years.  I like to see guys who have proven they can improve because they are going to need to improve to succeed in the NBA.  Part of what I liked about Brandon Clarke.
  • Good shooter from 3 and FT projects to be a good shooter in the NBA.  Also, most of his 3PAs were off the dribble and not just catch and shoot 3s like Kispert or Moody.  He was 32 of 78 (41%) on off the dribble 3s.  That is very good.  Also shot a lot of deep 3's so that bodes really well for his shooting to translate to the next level.
  • Has the potential to be a good, versatile defender.  
  • Competes on the boards.

He looks like an ideal 1st round trade down candidate but he might end up in that 18-22 range anyway.  Tall(ish) point guards who can shoot are very valuable.  Even regular-sized point guards who can shoot command a premium.  
 

I think this draft offers the most value (outside of Green/Mobley/Cade/Suggs) with non-lotto point guards and non-lotto bigs.  Outside of Jalen Green and Cade Cunningham, the wings mostly look overrated and I even think that Cade is over-rated.  I even like Jalen Johnson and Scottie Barnes but I think those two are closer to being 4’s/small ball point centers.  Vrenz Bleijenbergh is my top guy but maybe even he is more of a stretch 4 than a true “wing”.  Although I am coming around on Franz Wagner who I think shows flashes of Shane Battier, Kyle Anderson and Bobby Jones.  Although he might not even offer much value as a top 10 pick.  I would either want a top 4 pick or a pick in the 10-15 range — even then I would strongly consider trading down (maybe MULTIPLE times).  
 

Does anyone have a list of deep sleepers who could be in play with the Blazers’ second round pick (currently around 52)?  Even draft/stash guys we can use as a thrown in in a potential “all-in” draft (trading up and tossing in multiple future firsts).

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