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New Official 2021 Grind City Draft Thread & Lottery Picks Watch!

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This draft left me with more questions than answers but all we do is watch it play out and hope summer league is pretty decent for us 

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5 minutes ago, grizzgolf said:

This draft left me with more questions than answers but all we do is watch it play out and hope summer league is pretty decent for us 

Yeah, I wonder if this is the most Over-Hyped/Over-Rated Draft of all time.

I like Jalen Green but his best comp is probably ABA David Thompson Lite.  Mobley has some really high end comps BUT Deluxe Divac is probably a solid comp for him, even part of his 99% projected ceiling.  Cade looks like a high end hybrid of Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson.  Josh Giddey (who I had at 3) looks like Edward Scissorhands.  

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4 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

Where's @fanboyslim with his assssment?

The draft dragged too long and I didn't have any hopes of staying awake until #40 so I went to sleep trying to process the Ziarie pick.

When I woke up I was surprised to see Santi Aldama picked in the 1st round, as I assumed he'd go in the 2nd. Then I learned that we had traded into #30 and I was like

BelatedSplendidGermanspitz-size_restrict

So, a lot to unpack.

First, anyone saying Aldama is an unknown is an idiot with no knowledge about Euro basketball and his opinion should be safely ignored. He is the son of an international Spanish player who played against the Dream Team in the '92 olympics. As some have already mentioned, he was the best player in the youth Spanish national teams for 3-4 years and and led Spain to victory in the under-19 world championship, winning tournament MVP ahead of every other international player in this draft, including Asperen Sengun and Usman Garuba (who played in the same team). Back then he was projected far ahead of Garuba, with comparisons being made to a young Pau Gasol (who hadn't even reached the same level of success at those ages). Future mock drafts penciled him as a high lottery pick, I recall seeing him as a top 5 at some point.

But then he made a number of unexpected career decisions. He didn't come from any of the ACB teams' youth programs, but rather from an obscure high school in the Canary Islands (they do produce a lot of good players over there). He rejected offers from several top ACB teams, including the ones based in the islands, in order to stay in school. In itself not a strange decision, but for someone who projected so high at the time it was quite surprising.

Then, when he finished high school and everyone expected him to join FC Barcelona (he played for them in a Euroleague-sponsored youth tournament) he turned down a contract offer and decided to go to college in the USA, ostensibly more for educational purposes than as a result of a basketball decision. This was seen as a very puzzling decision since a pro contract offer at that level would set him up economically and wouldn't prevent him (on the contrary) to get an education later on if his basketball career didn't pan out. In a recent interview he explained he was recruited by Loyola's assistant coach, who sold him the program's ability to get him a real education while still playing at a high level (I guess compared to other college programs where "education" is not exactly a priority).

He had been dragging a patellar tendonitis for some time and it flared up ahead of his rookie season, so he and Loyola decided he should have surgery to correct it, with the effect of losing most of the season, first recovering from surgery and then due to the COVID shutdown. He could not return to Spain for months due to the travel lockdown, and when he did he refused again to play with ACB teams since a pro contract would keep him from returning to Loyola. He did practice with an ACB team though.

He went back for his sophomore season where he put serious numbers against not exactly elite competition, so it's hard to gauge his current level. Because he was in the US and limited by travel restrictions he's been disconnected from the Spanish national team program, so he kind of fell out of the map from this side of the pond. In the meantime Garuba exploded in Real Madrid's youth teams and eventually in the ACB/Euroleague so he eclipsed Aldama as the top prospect of his generation. At the same time he kept dropping in the mocks from being a potential lottery pick down to the 2nd round and maybe even being undrafted. Hard to say how realistic those predictions were since mocks in the 2nd round are a crapshoot. But it was still a bit shocking to see him taken in the 1st round.

I have no idea if he plans to join the NBA next season or not. I'm not sure if he could go back to college. I find it unlikely he'd go to Europe since he's not going to get a better contract than his rookie scale contract, plus it'd be hard to negotiate an NBA out clause. Assuming he stays with the team my guess is he will be available for summer league and training camp and will spend significant time in the G league in his first season.

If he had fallen to the 2nd round the situation would be more complicated. He could get a better contract in Europe for sure, so he would likely become a draft and stash pick. The problem there is although a 2nd rounder is not limited by the rookie scale and could get an enticing offer if he grew up as a player there's the risk of him becoming a star in Europe and deciding to pass on the NBA (like Sergi Llull did, for example). No idea if this was a factor in the decision of trading up to #30 in order to pick him.

What do I think about the pick? I honestly don't know. If he gets anywhere close to his projections from high school this would be an incredible pick, again, he was unironically compared to Pau. But he also looks very understrengthed for the NBA, I could see him being pushed around like a ragdoll until he puts some muscle on. I could also see him flaming out if he doesn't show progress quickly. On the other hand this is a player that has proven he's not attracted by the big city lights at all. If he turns out to be a good player he could be a lifer.

We'll see, I'm as surprised as you. I'm moderately optimistic but he's not going to be a contributor out of the gates.

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Did Ziaire work out for us?  

Kind of an overrated draft all around ESPECIALLY after the top 3.  Cade/Green/Mobley but on my board I had Green/Mobley/Giddey/Cade.  5 thru 25 or even 35 looked fairly flat.

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I can't help but thinking both 1st round picks are players that, if they develop as hoped, would be in the upswing and on a long term rookie contract by the time Ja is eligible for a max extension. This may completely change with trades and whatever happens with JJJ, but it looks like right or wrong the FO is clearly building for 2022.

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1 hour ago, fanboyslim said:

The draft dragged too long and I didn't have any hopes of staying awake until #40 so I went to sleep trying to process the Ziarie pick.

When I woke up I was surprised to see Santi Aldama picked in the 1st round, as I assumed he'd go in the 2nd. Then I learned that we had traded into #30 and I was like

BelatedSplendidGermanspitz-size_restrict

So, a lot to unpack.

First, anyone saying Aldama is an unknown is an idiot with no knowledge about Euro basketball and his opinion should be safely ignored. He is the son of an international Spanish player who played against the Dream Team in the '92 olympics. As some have already mentioned, he was the best player in the youth Spanish national teams for 3-4 years and and led Spain to victory in the under-19 world championship, winning tournament MVP ahead of every other international player in this draft, including Asperen Sengun and Usman Garuba (who played in the same team). Back then he was projected far ahead of Garuba, with comparisons being made to a young Pau Gasol (who hadn't even reached the same level of success at those ages). Future mock drafts penciled him as a high lottery pick, I recall seeing him as a top 5 at some point.

But then he made a number of unexpected career decisions. He didn't come from any of the ACB teams' youth programs, but rather from an obscure high school in the Canary Islands (they do produce a lot of good players over there). He rejected offers from several top ACB teams, including the ones based in the islands, in order to stay in school. In itself not a strange decision, but for someone who projected so high at the time it was quite surprising.

Then, when he finished high school and everyone expected him to join FC Barcelona (he played for them in a Euroleague-sponsored youth tournament) he turned down a contract offer and decided to go to college in the USA, ostensibly more for educational purposes than as a result of a basketball decision. This was seen as a very puzzling decision since a pro contract offer at that level would set him up economically and wouldn't prevent him (on the contrary) to get an education later on if his basketball career didn't pan out. In a recent interview he explained he was recruited by Loyola's assistant coach, who sold him the program's ability to get him a real education while still playing at a high level (I guess compared to other college programs where "education" is not exactly a priority).

He had been dragging a patellar tendonitis for some time and it flared up ahead of his rookie season, so he and Loyola decided he should have surgery to correct it, with the effect of losing most of the season, first recovering from surgery and then due to the COVID shutdown. He could not return to Spain for months due to the travel lockdown, and when he did he refused again to play with ACB teams since a pro contract would keep him from returning to Loyola. He did practice with an ACB team though.

He went back for his sophomore season where he put serious numbers against not exactly elite competition, so it's hard to gauge his current level. Because he was in the US and limited by travel restrictions he's been disconnected from the Spanish national team program, so he kind of fell out of the map from this side of the pond. In the meantime Garuba exploded in Real Madrid's youth teams and eventually in the ACB/Euroleague so he eclipsed Aldama as the top prospect of his generation. At the same time he kept dropping in the mocks from being a potential lottery pick down to the 2nd round and maybe even being undrafted. Hard to say how realistic those predictions were since mocks in the 2nd round are a crapshoot. But it was still a bit shocking to see him taken in the 1st round.

I have no idea if he plans to join the NBA next season or not. I'm not sure if he could go back to college. I find it unlikely he'd go to Europe since he's not going to get a better contract than his rookie scale contract, plus it'd be hard to negotiate an NBA out clause. Assuming he stays with the team my guess is he will be available for summer league and training camp and will spend significant time in the G league in his first season.

If he had fallen to the 2nd round the situation would be more complicated. He could get a better contract in Europe for sure, so he would likely become a draft and stash pick. The problem there is although a 2nd rounder is not limited by the rookie scale and could get an enticing offer if he grew up as a player there's the risk of him becoming a star in Europe and deciding to pass on the NBA (like Sergi Llull did, for example). No idea if this was a factor in the decision of trading up to #30 in order to pick him.

What do I think about the pick? I honestly don't know. If he gets anywhere close to his projections from high school this would be an incredible pick, again, he was unironically compared to Pau. But he also looks very understrengthed for the NBA, I could see him being pushed around like a ragdoll until he puts some muscle on. I could also see him flaming out if he doesn't show progress quickly. On the other hand this is a player that has proven he's not attracted by the big city lights at all. If he turns out to be a good player he could be a lifer.

We'll see, I'm as surprised as you. I'm moderately optimistic but he's not going to be a contributor out of the gates.

This. 

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Mane, what a hangover.....

In the words of the immortal John Lee Hooker:

When my first wife left me, she left my heart in misery.

Ever since that day, boy, I don't think I'll ever love again.

If I can get her back again, I'll never roam no more.

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For the record a few years down the line:

In the moment I would have chosen

10: Moody

40: Sims

 

Immediately after the draft I would have went

10: Moody

40. Wieskamp

Sign EJ Onu and Vrenz as undrafted guys

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This draft is a big fat F for me. The most disappointed I have ever been. I hope I’m wrong but Zaire is going to be a huge bust while Bouknight lights it up and Moody becomes the next big 3D player. 
 

The worst thing is I would have still been extremely disappointed with these picks had we stayed in our original position… this trade was BAD. 
 

Also in reply to my previous post, my first choice would have been to throw a big package at Orlando to get Suggs (no idea if that would have even been on the table).

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If this guy hits, Zach might look like he's smarter than everybody. If he misses i fear Zach might be the opposite. Honestly if either Bouknight or Moody come out better than Williams, which they probably will, Zach may have to hide out in the basement at the fourm

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39 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

If this guy hits, Zach might look like he's smarter than everybody. If he misses i fear Zach might be the opposite. Honestly if either Bouknight or Moody come out better than Williams, which they probably will, Zach may have to hide out in the basement at the fourm

The kid is a project, the rumor is that they were after Giddey, so picking Williams was better in my opinion, because like you said if he hits we make another step closer to our goal.

My question is, did we really need to trade up? But ok, I believe they wanted to clear space in the frontcourt. 

I still hope some S&T and moves are coming.

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8 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

The battle lines have been clearly drawn.

The FO versus ALT GRIND.

And so it goes...

... on and on and on.

I support the Front Office

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Just now, chipc3 said:

I support the Front Office

Something they did well is draft, so I suppose we are wrong and they nailed once again thid draft.

 

Im hoping for the best, after all, they have spent countless hours watching / interviewing / studying those kids.

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55 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

The kid is a project, the rumor is that they were after Giddey, so picking Williams was better in my opinion, because like you said if he hits we make another step closer to our goal.

My question is, did we really need to trade up? But ok, I believe they wanted to clear space in the frontcourt. 

I still hope some S&T and moves are coming.

I think Moody and Bouknight will probably have a faster impact so most people will hate this trade at first. If he goes out and looks good in summer league then he might get a pass. He could very well end up being one of the best players in the draft, at least I hope

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2 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

Mane, what a hangover.....

In the words of the immortal John Lee Hooker:

When my first wife left me, she left my heart in misery.

Ever since that day, boy, I don't think I'll ever love again.

If I can get her back again, I'll never roam no more.

now that’s my kind of quote. 
 

slim. 

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Giddy is going to be the truth, but he wasn’t there. Bouknight is undersized, probably the next Jordan Clarkson (guy better for his 2nd or 3rd team than his 1st). Moody is pretty much expected to be a role player. Ziaire is the possible star in that grouping so I have no problem with it. They took a swing in the lottery instead of trying to hit a single and I like that. 

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26 minutes ago, King Dork said:

Giddy is going to be the truth, but he wasn’t there. Bouknight is undersized, probably the next Jordan Clarkson (guy better for his 2nd or 3rd team than his 1st). Moody is pretty much expected to be a role player. Ziaire is the possible star in that grouping so I have no problem with it. They took a swing in the lottery instead of trying to hit a single and I like that. 

Yes. They went with talent. 

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They def went for upside on this draft.  Ziaire could be a great players if he develops.  Im not so riled this morning, but the shock of seeing that pick at 10 last night took a few to get around. 

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One thing's for sure, they didn't leak their draft prospects.  Was there anyone who had us selecting who we selected?  Anyone?

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Just now, pjs said:

One thing's for sure, they didn't leak their draft prospects.  Was there anyone who had us selecting who we selected?  Anyone?

I think Herrington had mentioned that there was mention that Grizz liked him but people kind of ignored it cause they didn't think he would go that high. There was definitely interest when they had #17 but I think people assumed that they didn't move up to 10 to take him. I don't buy Kleiman's b.s. about intel saying he would be taken.

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Man, the FO thinks they're a bunch of big brains, and maybe they are, but our history with these types of picks is sort of suspect. Doesn't Butler at 40 totally fit? Can give Ja rest at the point, can also play with him and can seriously light it up? I'm a Baylor alum so I'm biased but man did we mess up. I'm also a Grizzlies fan and totally expected this, so all is normal.

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5 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

The draft dragged too long and I didn't have any hopes of staying awake until #40 so I went to sleep trying to process the Ziarie pick.

When I woke up I was surprised to see Santi Aldama picked in the 1st round, as I assumed he'd go in the 2nd. Then I learned that we had traded into #30 and I was like

BelatedSplendidGermanspitz-size_restrict

So, a lot to unpack.

First, anyone saying Aldama is an unknown is an idiot with no knowledge about Euro basketball and his opinion should be safely ignored. He is the son of an international Spanish player who played against the Dream Team in the '92 olympics. As some have already mentioned, he was the best player in the youth Spanish national teams for 3-4 years and and led Spain to victory in the under-19 world championship, winning tournament MVP ahead of every other international player in this draft, including Asperen Sengun and Usman Garuba (who played in the same team). Back then he was projected far ahead of Garuba, with comparisons being made to a young Pau Gasol (who hadn't even reached the same level of success at those ages). Future mock drafts penciled him as a high lottery pick, I recall seeing him as a top 5 at some point.

But then he made a number of unexpected career decisions. He didn't come from any of the ACB teams' youth programs, but rather from an obscure high school in the Canary Islands (they do produce a lot of good players over there). He rejected offers from several top ACB teams, including the ones based in the islands, in order to stay in school. In itself not a strange decision, but for someone who projected so high at the time it was quite surprising.

Then, when he finished high school and everyone expected him to join FC Barcelona (he played for them in a Euroleague-sponsored youth tournament) he turned down a contract offer and decided to go to college in the USA, ostensibly more for educational purposes than as a result of a basketball decision. This was seen as a very puzzling decision since a pro contract offer at that level would set him up economically and wouldn't prevent him (on the contrary) to get an education later on if his basketball career didn't pan out. In a recent interview he explained he was recruited by Loyola's assistant coach, who sold him the program's ability to get him a real education while still playing at a high level (I guess compared to other college programs where "education" is not exactly a priority).

He had been dragging a patellar tendonitis for some time and it flared up ahead of his rookie season, so he and Loyola decided he should have surgery to correct it, with the effect of losing most of the season, first recovering from surgery and then due to the COVID shutdown. He could not return to Spain for months due to the travel lockdown, and when he did he refused again to play with ACB teams since a pro contract would keep him from returning to Loyola. He did practice with an ACB team though.

He went back for his sophomore season where he put serious numbers against not exactly elite competition, so it's hard to gauge his current level. Because he was in the US and limited by travel restrictions he's been disconnected from the Spanish national team program, so he kind of fell out of the map from this side of the pond. In the meantime Garuba exploded in Real Madrid's youth teams and eventually in the ACB/Euroleague so he eclipsed Aldama as the top prospect of his generation. At the same time he kept dropping in the mocks from being a potential lottery pick down to the 2nd round and maybe even being undrafted. Hard to say how realistic those predictions were since mocks in the 2nd round are a crapshoot. But it was still a bit shocking to see him taken in the 1st round.

I have no idea if he plans to join the NBA next season or not. I'm not sure if he could go back to college. I find it unlikely he'd go to Europe since he's not going to get a better contract than his rookie scale contract, plus it'd be hard to negotiate an NBA out clause. Assuming he stays with the team my guess is he will be available for summer league and training camp and will spend significant time in the G league in his first season.

If he had fallen to the 2nd round the situation would be more complicated. He could get a better contract in Europe for sure, so he would likely become a draft and stash pick. The problem there is although a 2nd rounder is not limited by the rookie scale and could get an enticing offer if he grew up as a player there's the risk of him becoming a star in Europe and deciding to pass on the NBA (like Sergi Llull did, for example). No idea if this was a factor in the decision of trading up to #30 in order to pick him.

What do I think about the pick? I honestly don't know. If he gets anywhere close to his projections from high school this would be an incredible pick, again, he was unironically compared to Pau. But he also looks very understrengthed for the NBA, I could see him being pushed around like a ragdoll until he puts some muscle on. I could also see him flaming out if he doesn't show progress quickly. On the other hand this is a player that has proven he's not attracted by the big city lights at all. If he turns out to be a good player he could be a lifer.

We'll see, I'm as surprised as you. I'm moderately optimistic but he's not going to be a contributor out of the gates.

thanks brother.  This makes me feel much better and jives with the limited intel i saw on Twitter.   Like i said on another thread.   FO doesn't care about draft position - they target players.   So they make moves to get those specific players.     
That is why i believe  Giddey was original prospect but got snatched so Ziaire was plan B.   

Someone else mentioned this but Santi skillset is the same the Jontay was projected to have.    So i can see the logic in that move too.  I am in a wait and see type of mode and giving benefit of the doubt.    Like i said , i wanted josh christopher but it isn't like his freshman year wasn't underwhelming too.  

Kuminga was a gamble too but unlike Z he has real questions about his work ethic to improve.    I have posted on here many times that a very important trait for draft picks is willingness to work and improve.   I believe that work ethic + physical tools + talent = Star.

Ziaire checks all of those boxes.  Anybody that can't see he has clear Star level upside is just being ridiculous.  I was cool with Franz Wagner and he doesn't have near the talent of Ziaire.   Moody was a safe pick for sure and i would have been happy with him but i didn't see much upside there.     

I'll say it again (just to convince myself haha) Z is freaking 6'10' with handles, shot creation, and fluid athleticism that likes to play defense.    Those traits are exactly why i wanted him at the beginning of this process.   

I don't care about them trading JV for Adams or taking on the money.    Christopher and Grimes were off the board when FO picked second time.   They also didn't have to take on another bad player or extra salary to move up and get 30.      We still have assets to make another move or can stand pat and be fine. 

 

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