bhoyal

Crowder had 16 & 6 in the Miami upset win?

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So who's the big free agent that will sign in Memphis? What's the biggest free agent the Grizzlies have ever signed? Chandler Parsons?

Free agency is the least reliable way to try and improve a team.

This way, Memphis got rid of expiring money that wouldn't have helped them improve (seriously, it is not even a good free agent class this year) for a young piece that still has upside at a position they need to fill. It was a move they should make 10/10 times.

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I think the reality of that trade was Iggy didn't have much value, he's pretty much washed at this point. His experience is certainly valuable to them, but that's the biggest thing he brings at this point. That certainly isn't worth a first. Jae was not good here, plain and simple, so he didn't have the value that he is bringing at this point, again other than experience. I think the inclusion of Hill for Waiters is what really turns the trade in their favor (the extra year of Waiters that is). Just Iggy and Jae for Johnson (and later Dieng) and Justise would have been completely fair for both teams, though I see why they made us take Waiters. Doesn't matter that much though, it's only one extra year, but I honestly would've just kept Waiters. 

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2 minutes ago, Everett said:

So who's the big free agent that will sign in Memphis? What's the biggest free agent the Grizzlies have ever signed? Chandler Parsons?

Free agency is the least reliable way to try and improve a team.

This way, Memphis got rid of expiring money that wouldn't have helped them improve (seriously, it is not even a good free agent class this year) for a young piece that still has upside at a position they need to fill. It was a move they should make 10/10 times.

Free agency can certainly help. We could've just overpaid a solid player for one year or mostly absorbed another player either for draft compensation like Iggy, or a decent player from a team that needs to clear some cap space/ get under the tax line. Cap space isn't just useful for signing players. 

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Jae Crowder is similar to Jeff Green and a word of caution with free agency.

I guy like Jeff Green is OK in a 4th or 5th option or bench contributor, not a major role like the Grizzlies asked for him.

Ditto for Jae Crowder. His role is smaller in Miami than what was asked from him in Memphis, and he does better.

Dillon is a solid player.  He should not be top 2 in FGA for any good playoff team, probably not top 3 or 4.

 

So don't pick a free agent that is solid role player and expect them to be a top 3 guy.  If Justise is solid in his role, that will be fine, but if expectations are that he will be a top 3 player, it will be disappointment.

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53 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

Jae Crowder is similar to Jeff Green and a word of caution with free agency.

I guy like Jeff Green is OK in a 4th or 5th option or bench contributor, not a major role like the Grizzlies asked for him.

Ditto for Jae Crowder. His role is smaller in Miami than what was asked from him in Memphis, and he does better.

Dillon is a solid player.  He should not be top 2 in FGA for any good playoff team, probably not top 3 or 4.

 

So don't pick a free agent that is solid role player and expect them to be a top 3 guy.  If Justise is solid in his role, that will be fine, but if expectations are that he will be a top 3 player, it will be disappointment.

You're not the first person to say that Jae had a bigger role here than in Miami, and I just don't really get that. Was he not the 5th option on offense in the starting lineup? He certainly took less shots than Dillon, JV, Ja, and Jaren. I'd say Jae has taken on an even bigger role in Miami, particularly in the playoffs. He starts, and had the pleasure of guarding Giannis most of the series. Certainly a bigger role than here imo. 

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8 hours ago, Dwash said:

Winslow was who they wanted so it wasn't free.  We will see how he works out. 

Those teams trade multiple firsts for Allstar caliber players or to clear space to sign one. And the Clips traded passed on Iggy and went for Marcus Morris.  Nobody is giving up firsts for Crowder (who was shooting 37/29% at the time) and Iguodala.  Get real, we got a first just for taking on Iguodala. 

I know Winslow was the prize. So if you want to know what you payed for him you have to take him out of the calculation. 

Or to make it simple: how much would it take to make you eat 30 Mio of bad salary into your capspace now. 

Edited by Mapka

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15 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

You're not the first person to say that Jae had a bigger role here than in Miami, and I just don't really get that. Was he not the 5th option on offense in the starting lineup? He certainly took less shots than Dillon, JV, Ja, and Jaren. I'd say Jae has taken on an even bigger role in Miami, particularly in the playoffs. He starts, and had the pleasure of guarding Giannis most of the series. Certainly a bigger role than here imo. 

 

It's easier for him to score in Miami because not only is he a not top 3 option, but more importantly, his top 3 options are better.  His role is to sit at the 3 point line on offense and shoot when open in Miami. That's his primary offensive role.  Thus, his 3 point shot numbers have gone way up, but everything else has gone way down.

He played more minutes, and had more assists, turnovers, and a higher usage rate here.

His playoff stats this year are pretty indicative of this: As of today, he taken 83 shots in the playoffs, with 75 of them 3 pointers.

 

He has a clearly defined role, and that is fine.  My original point is that we need to be careful to not bring in players who do their clearly defined role well in another organization and believe that will spill over to them doing the same in a greater role (it may, but for someone Crowder's age, that's unlikely).

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36 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

 

It's easier for him to score in Miami because not only is he a not top 3 option, but more importantly, his top 3 options are better.  His role is to sit at the 3 point line on offense and shoot when open in Miami. That's his primary offensive role.  Thus, his 3 point shot numbers have gone way up, but everything else has gone way down.

He played more minutes, and had more assists, turnovers, and a higher usage rate here.

His playoff stats this year are pretty indicative of this: As of today, he taken 83 shots in the playoffs, with 75 of them 3 pointers.

 

He has a clearly defined role, and that is fine.  My original point is that we need to be careful to not bring in players who do their clearly defined role well in another organization and believe that will spill over to them doing the same in a greater role (it may, but for someone Crowder's age, that's unlikely).

My point I guess is he should have been in the same role, and essentially was, he just didn't live up to it. His playoff stats are similar if not more involved than he was here. More minutes, higher usage, higher rebound %, he's essentially just not passing the ball. We have plenty of high usage rate people in the starting lineup (for better or for worse), we just needed someone like Crowder, or hopefully Justise) to come in and fill his role well. That obviously didn't happen.

Justise will probably have more of a role on offense than sitting and waiting for a kick out 3, since he's a good playmaker, but I don't think Dillon is ideal to put next to him. I think Grayson might fit better as he is lower usage and is a better shooter from deep. 

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Real happy for Jae.  I always liked him and I didn't think he was done as poorly as he shot here. 

On another note, Jimmy Buckets = winner. I don't know what they talking about with this cancer stuff. Would take him anyday. 

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53 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Real happy for Jae.  I always liked him and I didn't think he was done as poorly as he shot here. 

On another note, Jimmy Buckets = winner. I don't know what they talking about with this cancer stuff. Would take him anyday. 

22/5 for Crowder.  The Heat are 9-1 in the playoffs.  Miami looks like one of the most perfectly-built NBA teams of all-time.  Not saying they have all-time talent (but who knows a few guys are still really young) or that they will even get to the Finals — but this is one heck of a team.  

At this point I wouldn’t be shocked if Jae Crowder wins Finals MVP in a few weeks.

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11 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

22/5 for Crowder.  The Heat are 9-1 in the playoffs.  Miami looks like one of the most perfectly-built NBA teams of all-time.  Not saying they have all-time talent (but who knows a few guys are still really young) or that they will even get to the Finals — but this is one heck of a team.  

At this point I wouldn’t be shocked if Jae Crowder wins Finals MVP in a few weeks.

They have a five that fits like old draws on offense. Bam, Jae, Buckets, Herro, Dragon.  Honestly no other team has that right now. 

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

Real happy for Jae.  I always liked him and I didn't think he was done as poorly as he shot here. 

On another note, Jimmy Buckets = winner. I don't know what they talking about with this cancer stuff. Would take him anyday. 

I'm pretty sure it's due to his own actions on his previous teams but on the flip side, he chose MIA. He wants to be there and he has a team of guys following his lead. I'm sure he's much happier and is able to focus that energy on winning as opposed to being a distraction. 

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On 9/8/2020 at 9:05 PM, Everett said:

So who's the big free agent that will sign in Memphis? What's the biggest free agent the Grizzlies have ever signed? Chandler Parsons?

Free agency is the least reliable way to try and improve a team.

This way, Memphis got rid of expiring money that wouldn't have helped them improve (seriously, it is not even a good free agent class this year) for a young piece that still has upside at a position they need to fill. It was a move they should make 10/10 times.

A) You can use cap space to absorb contracts in a trade. No one said anythinga bout FA is the best way to get talent

B ) Just because yo have cap space one summer, that doesn't mean you have to use it. It's about flexibility and options, especially in a small market. The only thing we got back in this trade is the potential of WInslow which he still hasn't shown while MIA may be on the way to a championship. We got ripped.  

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8 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

A) You can use cap space to absorb contracts in a trade. No one said anythinga bout FA is the best way to get talent

B ) Just because yo have cap space one summer, that doesn't mean you have to use it. It's about flexibility and options, especially in a small market. The only thing we got back in this trade is the potential of WInslow which he still hasn't shown while MIA may be on the way to a championship. We got ripped.  

We will get a big FA in the Ja era if our core develops like it should. 

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

They have a five that fits like old draws on offense. Bam, Jae, Buckets, Herro, Dragon.  Honestly no other team has that right now. 

Yeah. I was thinking that too.  It’s almost a Death ROTATION.  
 

P.S. Nuggets won.  Probably my fave Nuggets and Heat editions of all time.  One of my favorite Celtics teams.  My favorite Lakers team in at least 20 years.  Incidentally, The 2020 Clippers were probably my least favorite team EVER.

Nuggets/Heat playing a great brand of basketball right now.  Maybe IDEAL basketball.

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30 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

I'm pretty sure it's due to his own actions on his previous teams but on the flip side, he chose MIA. He wants to be there and he has a team of guys following his lead. I'm sure he's much happier and is able to focus that energy on winning as opposed to being a distraction. 

Chicago was a consistent playoff team with him, straight trash after he left (and a 80 year old Dwade, that's all they lost). Minny trash before him, playoff team with him (a 4 seed before he got hurt ASB), trash once again after he left.  Sixers take the 2019 champs to game 7 and final shot with him (once he took over the offense in the playoffs),  are in disarray all year now that he is gone.  Now the Heat destroy the East 1 seed and could be finals bound with him. 

Bottom line is his "actions" appear to make teams better.  Maybe he is just a hard nose competitor who wants to win and isn't afraid to be the butthole when something needs to be said. 

A cancer is someone where there is clear evidence that he makes teams worse. Not appear to make his team better at every stop. 

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10 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Chicago was a consistent playoff team with him, straight trash after he left (and a 80 year old Dwade, that's all they lost). Minny trash before him, playoff team with him (a 4 seed before he got hurt ASB), trash once again after he left.  Sixers take the 2019 champs to game 7 and final shot with him (once he took over the offense in the playoffs),  are in disarray all year now that he is gone.  Now the Heat destroy the East 1 seed and could be finals bound with him. 

Bottom line is his "actions" appear to make teams better.  Maybe he is just a hard nose competitor who wants to win and isn't afraid to be the butthole when something needs to be said. 

A cancer is someone where there is clear evidence that he makes teams worse. Not appear to make his team better at every stop. 

To mae to

To mah to.

It's all subjective. 

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Jokic is the best passer in the league. Not since Steve Nash has there been a passer so deceptive that the announcer doesn't even name he shotmaker after an assist cause he is so in awe of the passer. 

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13 hours ago, Dwash said:

Jokic is the best passer in the league. Not since Steve Nash has there been a passer so deceptive that the announcer doesn't even name he shotmaker after an assist cause he is so in awe of the passer. 

The reports of the demise of the NBA big are greatly exaggerated.

7e97c754ebd03a1772609dc9cc88ccf2.jpg

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20 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

The reports of the demise of the NBA big are greatly exaggerated.

7e97c754ebd03a1772609dc9cc88ccf2.jpg

I don't think it's big man that was ever in question. I think it's the big body filler big man that is gone.  Your bigs have to be skilled or you are better off sliding traditional SFs up to PF.  No more guys who are just bruisers or bangers. 

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