KyleB

2021 Free Agent targets

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44 minutes ago, The J Crew said:

I would do that trade, Ja Rules.

But it would probably be more like giving the Pacers the choice of Dillon or Kyle, and to take the deeply negative Dieng contract and even the trade out, give them a slightly protected future 1st. Make it top 4 protected, in case we hit the lottery jackpot.

A problem with this is the Pacers probably have no interest in Dieng. They have Myles Turner, and Sabonis also plays some 5. And they drafted Goga Bitadze in the 1st round last year. 

In a scenario like that they might move Turner for a pick or a wing, because Sabonis and Bitadze are producting way more than him.

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24 minutes ago, King Dork said:

Name a better backup PG that makes less...

 

I’ll wait. 

That's easy. Better is subjective, but all of these guys are in the same category as Tyus, many clearly better if you are being objective, and make less.

Monte Morris made $1.6M this year, and $1.7M next. Some say he is the best back-up PG in the league.

Derrick White makes $3.5M next year.

DJ Augustin made $7.2 M this year. 

Aaron Holiday makes $2.3M next year.

Jalen Brunson makes $1.8M next year.

Shabazz Napier made $1.9M this year.

Lakers fans love Alex Caruso, he makes only $2.75 next year. 

Many teams don't have pure back-up PGs anymore with bigger guys like LeBron and James Harden basically performing the PG function. But you can fill the position pretty cheaply by drafting a guy and controlling his contract for 4 years, or an ex-starter or injury starter like a Jeremy Lin or Shabazz, or a career back up. 

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22 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

In a scenario like that they might move Turner for a pick or a wing, because Sabonis and Bitadze are producting way more than him.

I think they are going to try to play Sabonis and Myles Turner together for another season - they are only making $35.2M combined next year. 

A Dipo trade makes sense, he might leave in a year, and they added two scorers last summer in TJ Warren and Malcolm Brogdon. You could say 3 if you include Jeremy Lamb, who averaged 12.5 ppg before he got hurt.

But this is going to be a weird off season. Pacers will have a new coach. I could see them starting Dipo, prove he's healthy, and then trade him at the deadline if he still says he won't re-sign there. 

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30 minutes ago, The J Crew said:

That's easy. Better is subjective, but all of these guys are in the same category as Tyus, many clearly better if you are being objective, and make less.

Monte Morris made $1.6M this year, and $1.7M next. Some say he is the best back-up PG in the league.

Derrick White makes $3.5M next year.

DJ Augustin made $7.2 M this year. 

Aaron Holiday makes $2.3M next year.

Jalen Brunson makes $1.8M next year.

Shabazz Napier made $1.9M this year.

Lakers fans love Alex Caruso, he makes only $2.75 next year. 

Many teams don't have pure back-up PGs anymore with bigger guys like LeBron and James Harden basically performing the PG function. But you can fill the position pretty cheaply by drafting a guy and controlling his contract for 4 years, or an ex-starter or injury starter like a Jeremy Lin or Shabazz, or a career back up. 

Tyus is better overall than Augustin, Holiday, Caruso, and Napier. Brunson and him might be a tie.

24 minutes ago, The J Crew said:

I think they are going to try to play Sabonis and Myles Turner together for another season - they are only making $35.2M combined next year. 

A Dipo trade makes sense, he might leave in a year, and they added two scorers last summer in TJ Warren and Malcolm Brogdon. You could say 3 if you include Jeremy Lamb, who averaged 12.5 ppg before he got hurt.

But this is going to be a weird off season. Pacers will have a new coach. I could see them starting Dipo, prove he's healthy, and then trade him at the deadline if he still says he won't re-sign there. 

Yeah; you might be right here. They would probably value him then trade in deadline.  Maybe he force his way out in the offseason if we show that we want him.

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43 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

Tyus is better overall than Augustin, Holiday, Caruso, and Napier. Brunson and him might be a tie.

If Tyus was still playing for the T'Wolves and averaged 7 & 4 for them, I doubt you would say that.

And the bigger point is all of those guys make less, some $5M or $6M less, than Tyus.  There are always Beno's or Chalmers out there for $2M to $4M. Or just draft the late first or early 2nd round rookie like the T'Wolves did with Tyus, and let him go when his rookie deal is up after 4 years.

I just wouldn't overpay back-up PGs or Centers, there are a lot of them out there. And we are paying Dieng $17M, Tyus $8, Waiters $12.6, Kyle $9.5M - that's a lot of money to pay non-scoring non-starters next season. Not real good cap management, and not a great job taking advantage of Ja and Jaren's rookie salary years. 

Look at a good team like the Celtics, they pay their wings. That's the toughest position to fill in the league. 

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2 hours ago, The J Crew said:

That's easy. Better is subjective, but all of these guys are in the same category as Tyus, many clearly better if you are being objective, and make less.

Monte Morris made $1.6M this year, and $1.7M next. Some say he is the best back-up PG in the league.

Derrick White makes $3.5M next year.

DJ Augustin made $7.2 M this year. 

Aaron Holiday makes $2.3M next year.

Jalen Brunson makes $1.8M next year.

Shabazz Napier made $1.9M this year.

Lakers fans love Alex Caruso, he makes only $2.75 next year. 

Many teams don't have pure back-up PGs anymore with bigger guys like LeBron and James Harden basically performing the PG function. But you can fill the position pretty cheaply by drafting a guy and controlling his contract for 4 years, or an ex-starter or injury starter like a Jeremy Lin or Shabazz, or a career back up. 

None of them dudes better than Tyus

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2 minutes ago, King Dork said:

None of them dudes better than Tyus

Yeah, most of them are. And they make less money too. You just don't see them play everyday like you do Tyus. Monte Morris is a career 40% shooter from 3 and scores 10 ppg. And a good defender. And will make $1.7M next season. Aaron Holiday also at 39% this year, up to 10 almost points pg. 

Original post said he would wait to hear any back-up PGs who are better than Tyus making less, there are quite a few.  And they aren't on 3 year contracts. We don't need to overpay back-up point guards. 

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4 hours ago, Ja_Rules said:

I hope Tyus is here to stay

Forbes for the right price is okay, special since we have Winslow on the roster and he can play backup pg. But I would try to add Joe Harris, Mcdermott and Bertans

The impact Tyus has on the team is clear after the Bubble. 

Talking about this offseason:

SlowMo and Dieng are the players we need to move, but they dont have much value around the league (SlowMo might have for some teams). Dillon in the right role is a keeper, but I believe his best use is to upgrade the value of package of those guys in a trade. If Dipo wants out the Pacers I think we should take that risk, move Dillon + SlowMo + Dieng + our 1st 2025 unprotected for Dipo and Mcdermot

 

i love that trade actually but I don't think salary works.  good balance and you've got three high volume 40+% 3 pt shooters in jaren, allen, mcdermott

ja/tyus/winslow

VO/allen/melton

winslow/mcdermott/allen

JJJ/clarke/mcdermott

JV/JJJ/porter

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I don't know when he's a free agent, but I hope we never get Marcus Morris. There's no place for that crap in the NBA.

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48 minutes ago, TimBC said:

I don't know when he's a free agent, but I hope we never get Marcus Morris. There's no place for that crap in the NBA.

Morris thinks Luka is weak but he ain't scared to throw down. 

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3 hours ago, The J Crew said:

If Tyus was still playing for the T'Wolves and averaged 7 & 4 for them, I doubt you would say that.

And the bigger point is all of those guys make less, some $5M or $6M less, than Tyus.  There are always Beno's or Chalmers out there for $2M to $4M. Or just draft the late first or early 2nd round rookie like the T'Wolves did with Tyus, and let him go when his rookie deal is up after 4 years.

I just wouldn't overpay back-up PGs or Centers, there are a lot of them out there. And we are paying Dieng $17M, Tyus $8, Waiters $12.6, Kyle $9.5M - that's a lot of money to pay non-scoring non-starters next season. Not real good cap management, and not a great job taking advantage of Ja and Jaren's rookie salary years. 

Look at a good team like the Celtics, they pay their wings. That's the toughest position to fill in the league. 

Most of those guys are in their 1st contracts or having another chance in the league. I like Tyus and you dont; it is as simple as that.

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1 hour ago, grizz09 said:

i love that trade actually but I don't think salary works.  good balance and you've got three high volume 40+% 3 pt shooters in jaren, allen, mcdermott

ja/tyus/winslow

VO/allen/melton

winslow/mcdermott/allen

JJJ/clarke/mcdermott

JV/JJJ/porter

This is a solid team, could make the 7th or 8th seed if everybody stays healthy

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45 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

Most of those guys are in their 1st contracts or having another chance in the league. I like Tyus and you dont; it is as simple as that.

Exactly 

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1 hour ago, Ja_Rules said:

Most of those guys are in their 1st contracts or having another chance in the league. I like Tyus and you dont; it is as simple as that.

Tyus is fine. He’s 7 & 4. He’s average. Which is the point. 
 

And I would fill my back-up spot with cost-controlled guys on rookie contracts or 2nd chance guys, also the point.  

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8 hours ago, King Dork said:

Name a better backup PG that makes less...

 

I’ll wait. 

I'm not the one that wants to trade him.  I think it's a foolish idea of those who don't appreciate the value of a good backup point guard.  

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7 hours ago, The J Crew said:

That's easy. Better is subjective, but all of these guys are in the same category as Tyus, many clearly better if you are being objective, and make less.

Monte Morris made $1.6M this year, and $1.7M next. Some say he is the best back-up PG in the league.

Derrick White makes $3.5M next year.

DJ Augustin made $7.2 M this year. 

Aaron Holiday makes $2.3M next year.

Jalen Brunson makes $1.8M next year.

Shabazz Napier made $1.9M this year.

Lakers fans love Alex Caruso, he makes only $2.75 next year. 

Many teams don't have pure back-up PGs anymore with bigger guys like LeBron and James Harden basically performing the PG function. But you can fill the position pretty cheaply by drafting a guy and controlling his contract for 4 years, or an ex-starter or injury starter like a Jeremy Lin or Shabazz, or a career back up. 

Sure, you can fill the position with anybody cheaper, and perpetually be in the lottery.  I'd rather keep Tyus over any of those guys with the possible exception being Morris, who is on his first contract, and if you think his 1.7M is all a top backup PG in the NBA  is worth you will never have a winning team.  I'm pretty sure all the good teams have solid backups.

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7 hours ago, The J Crew said:

Tyus is fine. He’s 7 & 4. He’s average. Which is the point. 
 

And I would fill my back-up spot with cost-controlled guys on rookie contracts or 2nd chance guys, also the point.  

We have a bunch of those guys till we find Tyus. 

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16 hours ago, Dwash said:

Morris thinks Luka is weak but he ain't scared to throw down. 

As I read somewhere in Twitter, it's all sh** and giggles until ten Eastern European guys in balaclavas show up at your place at 3am.

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12 hours ago, dy_dy_dynomite said:

Should stand pat this year and trade are pick along with others next year for a big name and sign decent player

This year as in 2020 and next year as in 2021? We can't trade the 2021 pick because we will be sending Boston our 1rst round pick this year. The NBA will not allow it. That's why having an unconveyed pick obligation hanging over our head has made it harder to complete trades, we couldn't offer future firsts because we didn't know when the pick would convey to Boston and you can't trade your first round pick in consecutive drafts.

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4 hours ago, KyleB said:

This year as in 2020 and next year as in 2021? We can't trade the 2021 pick because we will be sending Boston our 1rst round pick this year. The NBA will not allow it. That's why having an unconveyed pick obligation hanging over our head has made it harder to complete trades, we couldn't offer future firsts because we didn't know when the pick would convey to Boston and you can't trade your first round pick in consecutive drafts.

We can during the draft

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23 minutes ago, dy_dy_dynomite said:

We can during the draft

True, but you can also do it before the draft, and just complete the deal later.

We did this last year. We traded Conley to Utah on June 19, got their 1st round pick last year (the 2019 pick), with an option on their 1st rounder in this year's 2020 draft. The way we got around it is we didn't complete the trade until July 6th, after the Utah 2019 1st round pick was exercised. 

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6 hours ago, KyleB said:

This year as in 2020 and next year as in 2021? We can't trade the 2021 pick because we will be sending Boston our 1rst round pick this year. The NBA will not allow it. That's why having an unconveyed pick obligation hanging over our head has made it harder to complete trades, we couldn't offer future firsts because we didn't know when the pick would convey to Boston and you can't trade your first round pick in consecutive drafts.

You can't have no picks in consecutive future drafts.  Like when the Nets traded the 2016, 2017, 2018 picks. The 2017 pick was one where the Cs had the right to sway picks, so technically they had a pick in 2017.

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19 minutes ago, Dwash said:

You can't have no picks in consecutive future drafts.  Like when the Nets traded the 2016, 2017, 2018 picks. The 2017 pick was one where the Cs had the right to sway picks, so technically they had a pick in 2017.

Got it, I went back and read the rule and it is not as straightforward as I thought it was, you and everyone else who has corrected me are right and I was wrong.

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On 8/31/2020 at 11:51 AM, KyleB said:

This year as in 2020 and next year as in 2021? We can't trade the 2021 pick because we will be sending Boston our 1rst round pick this year. The NBA will not allow it. That's why having an unconveyed pick obligation hanging over our head has made it harder to complete trades, we couldn't offer future firsts because we didn't know when the pick would convey to Boston and you can't trade your first round pick in consecutive drafts.

I don't know if this is true in fact but it is certainly true in theory. I haven't heard of any trades that failed to go through because the Grizzlies couldn't offer a future first round pick until after 2023 but it would make sense that if a trade required such a pick that the Grizzlies would struggle to fulfill that requirement .

Personally I think trading first round picks that come do years from now is playing with dynamite. Twice now the Grizzlies have lost lottery picks due to trades made years earlier where the player involved was no longer on the team. It cost the Grizzlies a shot at Carmello Anthony the first time and this time it cost the Grizzlies the 14th pick which could be Precious Achiuwa or someone else who could be a solid NBA player. 

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