Grizzled Vet

Your 2020 offseason moves predictions. Free agents & deals

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Horford was the wrong move for the 76ers for sure. 

I like Simmons plenty as a player, but I think his fit with Ja is bad and wouldn’t pursue him.  Not sure what we’d offer anyways.  Embiid is interesting and can’t say I wouldn’t at least consider a deal involving JJJ for him but it seems pretty unrealistic.  

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45 minutes ago, Ndq0327 said:

Great let’s take Ben Simmons then we will have all three levels of playmakers that need to ball to be useful and they still won’t have anyone to pass the ball to that can shoot😩😩 I think we need to start putting pieces around the building blocks we have not keep adding building blocks.... Shake Milton and Josh Richardson sound like targets if the Grizz wanted to get involved with philly honestly it would be annoying to get them cause we should have drafted both of them in their respective drafts but that’s in the past now 

If they acquired Simmons, I would not assume that would be the only move made. 

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If the person isn't a shooter, they aren't getting acquired.

Honestly, one guy that really could have helped this team offensively was on the team for about a day.

It would have been nice to have Kyle Korver sitting in the corner playing with Ja. 

And no one thought this team was going to be borderline playoffs and needing someone like him last summer.

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14 minutes ago, Grizzled Vet said:

If the person isn't a shooter, they aren't getting acquired.

Honestly, one guy that really could have helped this team offensively was on the team for about a day.

It would have been nice to have Kyle Korver sitting in the corner playing with Ja. 

And no one thought this team was going to be borderline playoffs and needing someone like him last summer.

I mean idk that's what everyone is calling for but the last pickup was Winslow lol. Still think this FO is going to pick up guys they like, not based on specific skillets.  They will do skillets when ready to compete. 

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5 hours ago, Dwash said:

I mean idk that's what everyone is calling for but the last pickup was Winslow lol. Still think this FO is going to pick up guys they like, not based on specific skillets.  They will do skillets when ready to compete. 

I'm still convinced Winslow wasn't who the FO liked as much as the best available option.

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8 hours ago, Dwash said:

I mean idk that's what everyone is calling for but the last pickup was Winslow lol. Still think this FO is going to pick up guys they like, not based on specific skillets.  They will do skillets when ready to compete. 

THANK YOU!!!

I don't understand all of these definitive absolute declarations about what type of players we will and will not get. Sports transactions are imperfect, You will rarely get everything you need. To your point, we gave up 2 guys who could hit the 3 for a guy who is not a known shooter and a 7' C who occasionally steps out. We needed shooter even when we had Crowder and Hill yet we took a step back. All cards are on the table when trying to improve a small market team. 

2 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

I'm still convinced Winslow wasn't who the FO liked as much as the best available option.

I understand what you are saying but if that is what the F.O. did, I don't understand that move. That is an EMOTIONAL response not an analytical decision. All they had to do was release Iggy, who cares if you have egg on your face. Yet they acquired Waiters horrible contract. As long as Winslow is on this team, I add Waiters salary in to his. If they did indeed make a move that petty, that was a mistake.

When that deal went down, I questioned it and some people tried to argue with me. The only rationale I can come up with is that they hoped that we would miss the playoffs this year and convey that pick and then Summer 2021, we more than likely would be back in the lottery as well as have a ton of cash. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. I doubt if Winslow will be on this team past next summer. 

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46 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

THANK YOU!!!

I don't understand all of these definitive absolute declarations about what type of players we will and will not get. Sports transactions are imperfect, You will rarely get everything you need. To your point, we gave up 2 guys who could hit the 3 for a guy who is not a known shooter and a 7' C who occasionally steps out. We needed shooter even when we had Crowder and Hill yet we took a step back. All cards are on the table when trying to improve a small market team. 

I understand what you are saying but if that is what the F.O. did, I don't understand that move. That is an EMOTIONAL response not an analytical decision. All they had to do was release Iggy, who cares if you have egg on your face. Yet they acquired Waiters horrible contract. As long as Winslow is on this team, I add Waiters salary in to his. If they did indeed make a move that petty, that was a mistake.

When that deal went down, I questioned it and some people tried to argue with me. The only rationale I can come up with is that they hoped that we would miss the playoffs this year and convey that pick and then Summer 2021, we more than likely would be back in the lottery as well as have a ton of cash. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. I doubt if Winslow will be on this team past next summer. 

Especially with his injury concerns. Considering it's a team option he probably will come out on fire, but due to so many injury issues,  I'm ok on him

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Do ya'll think Malik Beasley becomes a legit target now that Minny more than likely gonna take Edwards.    He is a scorer and way more efficient than Dillon .   

I would be interested in a Beasly S&T for Kyle + pick.  Minny doesn't have any SF's and have no reason to play Malik.   Maybe we can cash in on that.

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9 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Do ya'll think Malik Beasley becomes a legit target now that Minny more than likely gonna take Edwards.    He is a scorer and way more efficient than Dillon .   

I would be interested in a Beasly S&T for Kyle + pick.  Minny doesn't have any SF's and have no reason to play Malik.   Maybe we can cash in on that.

Beasley would have to agree to a sign and trade. Not sure why he would want to come here with Dillon and Winslow, when he could choose his destination and maybe start, like for the Knicks. 

Also, Gersan Rosas has said wants the T'Wolves to play faster next season, so don't think they will have interest in SloMo. 

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1 minute ago, The J Crew said:

Beasley would have to agree to a sign and trade. Not sure why he would want to come here with Dillon and Winslow, when he could choose his destination and maybe start, like for the Knicks. 

Also, Gersan Rosas has said wants the T'Wolves to play faster next season, so don't think they will have interest in SloMo. 

good points.  Prob best to hope a deal falls into our laps ala TJ Warren or FO gets lucky in the draft.

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3 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

good points.  Prob best to hope a deal falls into our laps ala TJ Warren or FO gets lucky in the draft.

I'm with you, though, I really like Beasley. 

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Would you guys consider trading for the Warriors pick? I was thinking and that might be a better option longterm. Before you say NO, hear me out:

  1. If we stay as we are and just add a MLE player, we will fight and fight, and probably struggle to be 7th or 8th seed like this year. Then would be facing a hard time advancing, because we will be in the wide West.
  2. Next year draft is one of the best,  and to have a chance to draft Cade Cunningham worth "tanking" a year.
  3. Trading for the 2nd pick could allow us to add James Wiseman to the mix. He is a hometown product and althought ppl have some flaws on him, he has the potential at least to become a JV type of player. 
  4. JV is great, I have nothing to say against him other than he have some trouble against some  matchups, but loosing him will hurt a lot. SlowMo is not more than a role player and I prefer to have his money on a shooter sooner than later. Dillon is Dillon, a lot of heart, but he thinks he is Kobe, when he is a sixthman/3&D role player at best.
  5. 2021 FA is better than this years, and we would still have money to add some good veterans then. Wiggins wont hurt our salary, because our core guys have 3 or more years on their contracts (Ja, Tyus, Allen, Winslow, Clarke and Jaren). 
  6. Loosing those guys will make us even worse, but that is point. Be bad next season, and use the strong 2021 draft and FA like, I said before, to start to compete for real in year 3.

I believe there is two types of deals that we could exploit with them:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y42nqj9t

+ 2x 1sts (Jazz and/or Warriors and/or Grizz 2022) / Best trade for us because we get off Wiggins and could trade Dillon + SlowMo in a separate deal.

Or 

Trading JV + 2x 1sts (Jazz and/or Warriors and/or Grizz 2022) for Iggy exception. 

Why GS would do that, they want to win now, and our guys can replicate some of the production they have on their role guys in the first title. JV could be a Bogut type, Dillon could be a worse version of Iggy and SlowMo be like Linvingston. 

 

2020 main rotation:

(trading 3 guys)

Ja/Tyus

Wiggins/Melton/Konchar*

Winslow/Allen

Jaren/Clarke/Porter

Wiseman/Dieng

 

(trading just JV)

Ja/Tyus

Allen/Dillon/Melton/Konchar*

Winslow/Slowmo

Jaren/Clarke/Porter

Wiseman/Dieng

 

* Add some players in one year deals, or with small contracts. If we could add a veteran longterm for the right price like Crowder I would be ok with it. Try to win games, but be ok with it in any scenario.

 

 

2021 main rotation with some lucky: 

(Trading 3 guys)

Ja/Tyus

Wiggins/Allen/Melton

Cunningham/Winslow

Jaren/Clarke

Wiseman

 

(Trading just JV)

Ja/Tyus

Allen/Dillon/Melton

Cunningham/Winslow

Jaren/Clarke/SlowMo

Wiseman

I know this is a right risk, special with the new lottery format, but if we make sure we have a top 7 pick next year we will add a major talent. And If we end with Jalen Green, or in special with Cade Cunningham, we get for sure the 3rd piece of our big 3.

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Wiseman doesn’t project to be JV like at all Wiseman is a mix of finesse big and athletic big Jonas is a bruiser I think Wiseman is the type of big that fits better in this system because he can run n catch lobs easily and he’s more vertically explosive than Jaren so he can protect the rim much better. I wouldn’t be opposed to a deal like that at all because having a high lotto pick next year would give the Grizz one of the best young cores in league history 

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Wiseman can be a legit 1a as a rim runner and lob threat who can also score the ball in a few places. Jaren as the pick and pop shooter optimizes his role as a third option.  Getting a legit Big 3 ASAP makes everything else so much easier.  It also takes some pressure off us in the 2021 draft since we would “only” need a 4th option.  

If we can get James Wiseman without giving up Ja/Jaren/Clarke and our own future first round picks (we can control our own destiny to a certain extent) then we should do it.  

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2 hours ago, Ndq0327 said:

Wiseman doesn’t project to be JV like at all Wiseman is a mix of finesse big and athletic big Jonas is a bruiser I think Wiseman is the type of big that fits better in this system because he can run n catch lobs easily and he’s more vertically explosive than Jaren so he can protect the rim much better. I wouldn’t be opposed to a deal like that at all because having a high lotto pick next year would give the Grizz one of the best young cores in league history 

I do agree Wiseman can be way more than JV, but in the worst case scenario production wise he can give at least 15/12 and a couple blocks. My question is, does GS goes for that deal, and If they ask for another pick, would you guys do It? I would. My wost scenario for a trade is JV + Dillon + SlowMo + Jazz + GS + Our 2022 lottery protected 1st for 2nd + Wiggins.

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13 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

I do agree Wiseman can be way more than JV, but in the worst case scenario production wise he can give at least 15/12 and a couple blocks. My question is, does GS goes for that deal, and If they ask for another pick, would you guys do It? I would. My wost scenario for a trade is JV + Dillon + SlowMo + Jazz + GS + Our 2022 lottery protected 1st for 2nd + Wiggins.

If we are sending out extra picks I would add a bit more protection to the Jazz and Warriors picks.  Maybe we can get some cash back too.  Although I am pretty much good with any deal that nets us Wiseman without involving Ja/Jaren/Clarke.  If we get 48 or 51 from the Warriors to go with our 40th pick I might draft TWO shooters — some combo of Sam Merrill, Markus Howard, or the Arkansas Splash Brothers (Mason Jones and Isiah Joe).  

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20 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

If we are sending out extra picks I would add a bit more protection to the Jazz and Warriors picks.  Maybe we can get some cash back too.  Although I am pretty much good with any deal that nets us Wiseman without involving Ja/Jaren/Clarke.  If we get 48 or 51 from the Warriors to go with our 40th pick I might draft TWO shooters — some combo of Sam Merrill, Markus Howard, or the Arkansas Splash Brothers (Mason Jones and Isiah Joe).  

You dont talk about Hughes, Riller and Kispert, and I believe they are better than those guys you mentioned. Isiah Joe could be good next to Ja I admit. 

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34 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

I want no part of Wiggins,  I'd rather do the JV deal simply because he's outside of the timeline for our young core. 

I wouod do any of those deals If they like it. 

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3 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

You dont talk about Hughes, Riller and Kispert, and I believe they are better than those guys you mentioned. Isiah Joe could be good next to Ja I admit. 

Kispert is going back to school.  Riller isn’t a knock-down shooter.  Doesn’t look like a super athlete either.  Elijah Hughes is more of an all around guard.  Merrill and Howard are basically shooting/scoring specialists but they are GREAT at that.  And, if we get Wiseman for JV/Slo Mo/picks etc. then I want to put some knock down 3 point shooters next to our Ja/Wiseman/Jaren Big 3.

Sam Merrill has good all around advanced stats and Markus Howard had a super-nice BPM (box plus minus) rating.  

In terms of my homemade advanced stat metric, Elijah Hughes finished around 47, behind guys like Kira Lewis, Jr. and Tyrell Terry but ahead of some big name guys like Precious Achiuwa, Cassius Stanley (more of a highlight guy than metrics guy at this point), Isaac Okoro, Cole Anthony, Aaron Nesmith and even Anthony Edwards (abysmal metrics).  Worth a look but maybe not worth reading up for. And if we try to build a juggernaut (trading for the Warriors pick) then we might be better off getting catch/shoot snipers.  Elijah Hughes looks more like an all-around guard/wing who needs the ball — a more athletic Dillon Brooks type.  JR Smith flashes but I may need to look at Hughes again.  But I can see Hughes moving up... more than likely at least two of Merrill, Howard, Isiah Joe and Mason Jones will be there at 40.  We could probably even trade down (from 40) and still be able to get two of those guys.  If we went after a better athlete (but worse shooter) then I would go with Cassius Stanley (better defensive potential than Ellijah Hughes).  

I think that whoever comes out of this draft with Wiseman wins the draft. Second place: Deni Avdija. Although 3rd is probably Aleksej Pokusevski but you can probably get him at least 10 picks lower than Deni.  My non-Poku sleeper pick is Precious Achiuwa (but his advanced stats are meh).  Haliburton and Devin Vassell should be solid values outside the top 5.  Obi/Okongwu/Paul Reed/Xavier Tillman would offer solid value outside the top 10, preferably outside the lotto.  Malachi Flynn and Tre Jones have great metrics and just look solid.  Tre Jones could end up being Mike Conley Lite.  If a team like us went with some super small ball lineups then Morant/Flynn would be one heck of a fun duo.  Another one of my cult classic sleepers would be Borisa Simanic as a stretch big.  Jack White could be one heck of a 12th/13th man.  Off the radar (except for one website that had him at 23) but he looks like an ideal 2 way guy.  He was a good role player for Duke....  I also think he would be solid in our system.  

The 2021 draft doesn’t do much for me. Wiseman’s college highlights are better than Evan Mobley’s high school mix tape high points.  I would put Achiuwa up there with the ‘21 draft’s secondary bigs/forwards.  Jalen Green has nice highlights.  But so does Cassius Stanley — from college.  ... Cade Cunningham looks like Slo Mo.... let’s go get Wiseman and get this rebuild over with.  

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17 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

Kispert is going back to school.  Riller isn’t a knock-down shooter.  Doesn’t look like a super athlete either.  Elijah Hughes is more of an all around guard.  Merrill and Howard are basically shooting/scoring specialists but they are GREAT at that.  And, if we get Wiseman for JV/Slo Mo/picks etc. then I want to put some knock down 3 point shooters next to our Ja/Wiseman/Jaren Big 3.

Sam Merrill has good all around advanced stats and Markus Howard had a super-nice BPM (box plus minus) rating.  

In terms of my homemade advanced stat metric, Elijah Hughes finished around 47, behind guys like Kira Lewis, Jr. and Tyrell Terry but ahead of some big name guys like Precious Achiuwa, Cassius Stanley (more of a highlight guy than metrics guy at this point), Isaac Okoro, Cole Anthony, Aaron Nesmith and even Anthony Edwards (abysmal metrics).  Worth a look but maybe not worth reading up for. And if we try to build a juggernaut (trading for the Warriors pick) then we might be better off getting catch/shoot snipers.  Elijah Hughes looks more like an all-around guard/wing who needs the ball — a more athletic Dillon Brooks type.  JR Smith flashes but I may need to look at Hughes again.  But I can see Hughes moving up... more than likely at least two of Merrill, Howard, Isiah Joe and Mason Jones will be there at 40.  We could probably even trade down (from 40) and still be able to get two of those guys.  If we went after a better athlete (but worse shooter) then I would go with Cassius Stanley (better defensive potential than Ellijah Hughes).  

I think that whoever comes out of this draft with Wiseman wins the draft. Second place: Deni Avdija. Although 3rd is probably Aleksej Pokusevski but you can probably get him at least 10 picks lower than Deni.  My non-Poku sleeper pick is Precious Achiuwa (but his advanced stats are meh).  Haliburton and Devin Vassell should be solid values outside the top 5.  Obi/Okongwu/Paul Reed/Xavier Tillman would offer solid value outside the top 10, preferably outside the lotto.  Malachi Flynn and Tre Jones have great metrics and just look solid.  Tre Jones could end up being Mike Conley Lite.  If a team like us went with some super small ball lineups then Morant/Flynn would be one heck of a fun duo.  Another one of my cult classic sleepers would be Borisa Simanic as a stretch big.  Jack White could be one heck of a 12th/13th man.  Off the radar (except for one website that had him at 23) but he looks like an ideal 2 way guy.  He was a good role player for Duke....  I also think he would be solid in our system.  

The 2021 draft doesn’t do much for me. Wiseman’s college highlights are better than Evan Mobley’s high school mix tape high points.  I would put Achiuwa up there with the ‘21 draft’s secondary bigs/forwards.  Jalen Green has nice highlights.  But so does Cassius Stanley — from college.  ... Cade Cunningham looks like Slo Mo.... let’s go get Wiseman and get this rebuild over with.  

Cade Cunningham is the second coming of Magic or Bird. He is a tall guard/wing that is great in everything

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1 minute ago, Ja_Rules said:

Cade Cunningham is the second coming of Magic or Bird. He is a tall guard/wing that is great in everything

I wanna see him against Big Time Competition.  Not a freak athlete so let’s see how it translates.  If he starts getting Luka comps early then he is gonna lock in the top pick (he’s there already).  Looks a bit slow but who knows... 

Would he be a good fit with Ja?  Or would we go with Jalen Green or someone else? 

 

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14 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

I wanna see him against Big Time Competition.  Not a freak athlete so let’s see how it translates.  If he starts getting Luka comps early then he is gonna lock in the top pick (he’s there already).  Looks a bit slow but who knows... 

Would he be a good fit with Ja?  Or would we go with Jalen Green or someone else? 

 

Right now I would go easily with him over Green. 

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5 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

Right now I would go easily with him over Green. 

Ah. I can’t tell.  Jalen looks good but he’s skinny and supposedly has a wonky shot.  Oh well.  I am not counting on a top 4 or 5 pick so I am gonna focus on mid/late first round guys or sleepers like Antwann Jones, Moussa Cisse, Makur Maker and Moussa Cisse.  Ideally we come out of this draft with Wiseman or Avdija (grade for GSW pick) or, failing that maybe Pokusevski (trade for a mid-first?), compete our Big 3 then we can get our fourth option next year....

The 2021 draft might be overrated.

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