Grizzled Vet

Your 2020 offseason moves predictions. Free agents & deals

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On 8/26/2020 at 4:18 PM, Crizzle said:

i didnt even know we had a trade forum. Why are you such an az$ hole chip? No one enjoys your shtick

I dunno, man., he's got 20,000 more posts than you, maybe he gets a little more weight. Let's just disagree without the insults. 

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45 minutes ago, TimBC said:

I dunno, man., he's got 20,000 more posts than you, maybe he gets a little more weight. Let's just disagree without the insults. 

Nope.  More posting/talking doesn't mean more intelligence.

I've been reading here also for 20+ years.  Some people are just in your face for some reason and its sad.  

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13 hours ago, toocoolkellz said:

I've seen rumblings of Victor might be available,  wouldn't hurt to kick the tires imho, and by that I mean listen to a trade not necessarily face dive into it

I would take that 

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16 hours ago, toocoolkellz said:

I've seen rumblings of Victor might be available,  wouldn't hurt to kick the tires imho, and by that I mean listen to a trade not necessarily face dive into it

Yeah saw that as well. I'd really like him. He was an all-defensive team member, an all-star. He can create his own shot, can be a spot up shooter, also distributes well, and rebounds well for a SG. He was pretty bad this year, but it's just one of those things where it takes time to get back into it. Just like Conley when he came back and was super rusty for like a couple months, but was back to normal after that. 

I don't think the Pacers will get a lot back for him given his injuries and only having one year on he has one year on his contract. I truly think it's a perfect scenario for us. 

I think like Dieng, Grayson, heavily protected 1st (that turns into 2 seconds) for Dipo is perfect. 

Grayson is a solid prospect for them that gives them a nice bench piece. 

The protected first is a win/win for both sides. If the trade works out well for us, we get an all star. If the trade doesn't work well for us, we got one year of Dipo for Grayson and a couple of seconds. It won't set us back really. 

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4 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

Yeah saw that as well. I'd really like him. He was an all-defensive team member, an all-star. He can create his own shot, can be a spot up shooter, also distributes well, and rebounds well for a SG. He was pretty bad this year, but it's just one of those things where it takes time to get back into it. Just like Conley when he came back and was super rusty for like a couple months, but was back to normal after that. 

I don't think the Pacers will get a lot back for him given his injuries and only having one year on he has one year on his contract. I truly think it's a perfect scenario for us. 

I think like Dieng, Grayson, heavily protected 1st (that turns into 2 seconds) for Dipo is perfect. 

Grayson is a solid prospect for them that gives them a nice bench piece. 

The protected first is a win/win for both sides. If the trade works out well for us, we get an all star. If the trade doesn't work well for us, we got one year of Dipo for Grayson and a couple of seconds. It won't set us back really. 

Would work for both sides 

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6 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

Yeah saw that as well. I'd really like him. He was an all-defensive team member, an all-star. He can create his own shot, can be a spot up shooter, also distributes well, and rebounds well for a SG. He was pretty bad this year, but it's just one of those things where it takes time to get back into it. Just like Conley when he came back and was super rusty for like a couple months, but was back to normal after that. 

I don't think the Pacers will get a lot back for him given his injuries and only having one year on he has one year on his contract. I truly think it's a perfect scenario for us. 

I think like Dieng, Grayson, heavily protected 1st (that turns into 2 seconds) for Dipo is perfect. 

Grayson is a solid prospect for them that gives them a nice bench piece. 

The protected first is a win/win for both sides. If the trade works out well for us, we get an all star. If the trade doesn't work well for us, we got one year of Dipo for Grayson and a couple of seconds. It won't set us back really. 

If they are giving him away for that cheap then he is probably no good. 

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7 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

Yeah saw that as well. I'd really like him. He was an all-defensive team member, an all-star. He can create his own shot, can be a spot up shooter, also distributes well, and rebounds well for a SG. He was pretty bad this year, but it's just one of those things where it takes time to get back into it. Just like Conley when he came back and was super rusty for like a couple months, but was back to normal after that. 

I don't think the Pacers will get a lot back for him given his injuries and only having one year on he has one year on his contract. I truly think it's a perfect scenario for us. 

I think like Dieng, Grayson, heavily protected 1st (that turns into 2 seconds) for Dipo is perfect. 

Grayson is a solid prospect for them that gives them a nice bench piece. 

The protected first is a win/win for both sides. If the trade works out well for us, we get an all star. If the trade doesn't work well for us, we got one year of Dipo for Grayson and a couple of seconds. It won't set us back really. 

 

2 hours ago, grizzgolf said:

Would work for both sides 

I'm not sure about that 1st though especially for a one year rental.  I'd be more convinced if he expressed willingness to resign prior to but I doubt he'd do that considering the 2021 free agency money floating around. I'd give them multiple seconds. I guess this whole debacle with Boston and the infamous LeBron James pick I'm very reluctant to trade first rounders

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3 hours ago, toocoolkellz said:

 

I'm not sure about that 1st though especially for a one year rental.  I'd be more convinced if he expressed willingness to resign prior to but I doubt he'd do that considering the 2021 free agency money floating around. I'd give them multiple seconds. I guess this whole debacle with Boston and the infamous LeBron James pick I'm very reluctant to trade first rounders

It is pretty much only a first rounder if he stays with us long term and we do well. Make it a 2022 lottery protected first, that way if he bounces and we don't make the playoffs, it is just 2 seconds. If he does well and stays, then I think a first for a potential all star is plenty reasonable. 

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4 hours ago, Dwash said:

If they are giving him away for that cheap then he is probably no good. 

Well yeah, but they don't have any leverage as they have a lot of money tied up in other places, and he only has one year on his deal. If he had just signed a deal it would be a different story. All that, plus the injury really just means he has not a lot of trade value. 

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1 hour ago, Rdk4121 said:

It is pretty much only a first rounder if he stays with us long term and we do well. Make it a 2022 lottery protected first, that way if he bounces and we don't make the playoffs, it is just 2 seconds. If he does well and stays, then I think a first for a potential all star is plenty reasonable. 

Renting an allstar for a first isn't a good move though but I like your idea. I'd be willing to take a stab at it

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1 hour ago, Rdk4121 said:

Well yeah, but they don't have any leverage as they have a lot of money tied up in other places, and he only has one year on his deal. If he had just signed a deal it would be a different story. All that, plus the injury really just means he has not a lot of trade value. 

Yeah but that's a give away package.  No financial relief, an inferior 2 guard, some second rounders.  Can't see any reason they would do that if he isn't done. They might as well keep him and let him expire like Dieng would. 

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7 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Yeah but that's a give away package.  No financial relief, an inferior 2 guard, some second rounders.  Can't see any reason they would do that if he isn't done. They might as well keep him and let him expire like Dieng would. 

I guess they'd get something instead of him just walking. It's not like they're a big free agent destination and circumstances around him limit his trade value

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3 hours ago, Dwash said:

Yeah but that's a give away package.  No financial relief, an inferior 2 guard, some second rounders.  Can't see any reason they would do that if he isn't done. They might as well keep him and let him expire like Dieng would. 

I'd imagine a move like that might come at the trade deadline or in season. They most likely can and should get something better than that, but getting 2 seconds (at worst) and a young guard is better than nothing. Think about Drummond, and while the Pistons did get cap relief for this year, they literally got a singular 2nd rounder for a younger, healthier, productive player. Obviously guards have more value than big men, but Drummond is pretty solid. 

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Listen to Dwash. There is no way the Pacers are giving away Dipo for Dieng, Grayson and a protected 1st. A deeply negative contract, maybe a rotation player and a late 1st? Come on. Think more what Kawhi and Conley got, or slightly less than what PG and AD got, and forget about the Pistons salary dump of Drummond, who is seen as an overpaid player left behind by the style of play in the league. 

And the Pacers have all the leverage, they have the player who will be in demand.  We heard the same spiel about Conley, and look what we got for him - 2 1sts, Jae and Grayson.  Conley was also a year past a major injury, but 4 and 1/2 years older than Dipo and owed almost $70M.  He was a riskier bet than Dipo. 

Dipo is a year and a half past his ruptured quad. He played pretty well in the bubble. 18 ppg if you take out the one game he only played 8 minutes. Remember, he originally said he wasn't going to play in the bubble at all.  

Dipo was a top 20 player only 2 seasons ago -  ahead of guys like Kyle Lowry and Klay Thompson and Ben Simmons and Brad Beal. https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/10/top-100-nba-players-2019-lebron-james-stephen-curry-dirk-nowitzki  An All Star in '18 and '19. First team All Defense in '18.

If you think he's Boogie Cousins, permanently hindered by injury, then you don't want him. But if you think he's close to healthy, which I think he will be, especially by the time next season starts 6 months from now, then the Pacers will get a haul for Dipo. The one year left on a contract won't matter much, the acquiring team gets his Bird Rights. It's the chance you take to land a star. 

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2 hours ago, The J Crew said:

Listen to Dwash. There is no way the Pacers are giving away Dipo for Dieng, Grayson and a protected 1st. A deeply negative contract, maybe a rotation player and a late 1st? Come on. Think more what Kawhi and Conley got, or slightly less than what PG and AD got, and forget about the Pistons salary dump of Drummond, who is seen as an overpaid player left behind by the style of play in the league. 

And the Pacers have all the leverage, they have the player who will be in demand.  We heard the same spiel about Conley, and look what we got for him - 2 1sts, Jae and Grayson.  Conley as also a year past a major injury, but 4 and 1/2 years older than Dipo and owed almost $70M.  He was a riskier bet than Dipo. 

Dipo is a year and a half past his ruptured quad. He played pretty well in the bubble. 18 ppg if you take out the one game he only played 8 minutes. Remember, he originally said he wasn't going to play in the bubble at all.  

Dipo was a top 20 player only 2 seasons ago -  ahead of guys like Kyle Lowry and Klay Thompson and Ben Simmons and Brad Beal. https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/10/top-100-nba-players-2019-lebron-james-stephen-curry-dirk-nowitzki  An All Star in '18 and '19. First team All Defense in '18.

If you think he's Boogie Cousins, permanently hindered by injury, then you don't want him. But if you think he's close to healthy, which I think he will be, especially by the time next season starts 6 months from now, then the Pacers will get a haul for Dipo. The one year left on a contract won't matter much, the acquiring team gets his Bird Rights. It's the chance you take to land a star. 

The only reason they would trade him at all is if they don't think they will be able to re-sign him. That's the point. If they have space to sign him, why wouldn't they? Or if they fear he's going to leave in free agency regardless, why not get something while you can? 

There's a lot of of different scenarios. We shouldn't offer much more than that, unless we get a commitment on an extension from him like Iggy did with Miami. We could easily just offer him a max in 2021, assuming the salary cap doesn't drop significantly. Conley had two years left on his deal, similar thing with AD, though with a player option instead of a true second year. PG had 3 years left on his contract

Kawhi is the best example, but there's an obvious difference between Kawhi and Dipo. Toronto obviously came out fine, but they honestly didn't give up that much. A protected first, Poetl (who isn't even as good as Grayson), and DeRozan, who might have been their star player, but was also blamed for most of their playoff failures. Not only that, but they also got a legit starter on a playoff team in Danny Green. 

A legit starter, and a top 3 player for a flawed Star, a protected first, and a young player. That's really not too far off from what I suggested, particularly given the injury history of Dipo, caliber of player compared to Kawhi, and the fact they also got Danny Green. 

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4 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

I'd imagine a move like that might come at the trade deadline or in season. They most likely can and should get something better than that, but getting 2 seconds (at worst) and a young guard is better than nothing. Think about Drummond, and while the Pistons did get cap relief for this year, they literally got a singular 2nd rounder for a younger, healthier, productive player. Obviously guards have more value than big men, but Drummond is pretty solid. 

They were a non playoff team who absolutely was not resigning Drummond. Indy has playoff games and Oladipo is a local born player who loves being there, a fan favorite and could still resign if he doesn't play well. If he does play well, he won't be worth that package of scraps. 

Also, somebody would pony up a guaranteed first atleast or a proven rotation guy. 

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22 minutes ago, Dwash said:

They were a non playoff team who absolutely was not resigning Drummond. Indy has playoff games and Oladipo is a local born player who loves being there, a fan favorite and could still resign if he doesn't play well. If he does play well, he won't be worth that package of scraps. 

Also, somebody would pony up a guaranteed first atleast or a proven rotation guy. 

Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. We don't really know what his market will be. So offering a guaranteed first makes that package that much more appealing? If Dipo does well (or we do well), they get their first. 

Again, like I said, they don't need to trade him if they have space to re-sign him or he wants to commit signing there. They only trade him if they don't want to pay the tax (they don't), or he says he wants to explore free agency. 

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14 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

https://youtu.be/rKWyqTsU620

 

We should try to o get kid, his pre draft workout is just like Embiid a couple of years ago.

Wiseman is a great athlete.  He has the size and he even looks like he can get even bigger/stronger.  He would be an ideal rim roller/lob threat for Ja.  Can you imagine how wide open Jaren would be as our stretch 4?

Are the T Wolves and Warriors gonna overthink it and pass on this guy? Maybe. Let’s keep him away from the Western Conference if we can’t put together a good enough trade package for him.  Wiseman would be good fit on the Bulls.  I don’t really see him falling past 4.  

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2 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

Wiseman is a great athlete.  He has the size and he even looks like he can get even bigger/stronger.  He would be an ideal rim roller/lob threat for Ja.  Can you imagine how wide open Jaren would be as our stretch 4?

Are the T Wolves and Warriors gonna overthink it and pass on this guy? Maybe. Let’s keep him away from the Western Conference if we can’t put together a good enough trade package for him.  Wiseman would be good fit on the Bulls.  I don’t really see him falling past 4.  

He looks like a better fit than JV, runs the court better, looks like a rebound machine just as JV is, moves a bit better on D and seems could be a ok 3pt shooter in time.

Also him and Jaren are friends. We could have the best frontcourt with Jaren/Wiseman/Clarke

If we cant get him anyway I hope he ends in Charlotte. They deserve a star and their team looks fun to watch if he gets there; also since doesnt look that difficult to get a extra 1st round pick; I would go after RJ if I was them. 

 

Graham/Rozier

RJ/Monk/Martin

Bridges/Martin/Batum

PJ/Zeller/pick 32

Wiseman/Hernangomez/pick 56

 

They will have a long way to go if they want to be a contender but the Future would be bright.

PS.: I hope Wiseman ends in the Hornets like I said and Avdija in the Bulls or Cavs so we dont face them as much as we would other way around.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Dwash said:

They were a non playoff team who absolutely was not resigning Drummond. Indy has playoff games and Oladipo is a local born player who loves being there, a fan favorite and could still resign if he doesn't play well. If he does play well, he won't be worth that package of scraps. 

Also, somebody would pony up a guaranteed first atleast or a proven rotation guy. 

Just a follow up to my last post when I said they should only shop him if he says he would leave in free agency. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/rumor-victor-oladipo-leaning-toward-140017623.html

Again, I don't think they'll have a ton of leverage in the deal given he allegedly wants to leave Indy, but still only have one year on his contract. 

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2 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

Just a follow up to my last post when I said they should only shop him if he says he would leave in free agency. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/rumor-victor-oladipo-leaning-toward-140017623.html

Again, I don't think they'll have a ton of leverage in the deal given he allegedly wants to leave Indy, but still only have one year on his contract. 

Dieng + Brooks + protected 1st might work, I would be all in for this type of deal and if they ask for more (or a unprotected) they would have to include Mcdermott. To tell the truth, Dipo might be a better fit next to Ja; better than Lavine or Beal, because he plays both ends of the court. 

 

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43 minutes ago, Ja_Rules said:

Dieng + Brooks + protected 1st might work, I would be all in for this type of deal and if they ask for more (or a unprotected) they would have to include Mcdermott. To tell the truth, Dipo might be a better fit next to Ja; better than Lavine or Beal, because he plays both ends of the court. 

 

Only reason I said Grayson is because of the salaries involved. Dieng plus Grayson is about 20 million, Dieng plus Brooks is like 29 million. Dipo makes 21 million next year. Dillon isn't a bad contract, but no telling if they want to spend that much on him (but having a quality guard locked up on a reasonable deal is a good sell as well). A deal like you suggested would have to include McDermott just to get the salaries to match up, and honestly, that would be fine by me. McDermott off the bench would be great, instant offense. 

Also, you're right on the fit. Dipo plays defense pretty well, and also distributes pretty well. Between him and Justise, we have plenty of ways to relieve some of the play-making duty from Ja if we want, while also having two solid wing defenders to pair with him. 

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On 8/27/2020 at 12:04 PM, chipc3 said:

So? Does that mean we shouldn't let people know about that forum? NBA Talk is active. The Spanish Forum is active. Off Topic has had posts. All I have said from the beginning is that this isn't the proper forum. It's not. I haven't moved the thread or even suggested I would. 

The only defense people can come up with is that they are too lazy to post in the proper forum. That's fine. They are lazy. 

 

And some people are too concerned about petty things.  Maybe you should go arrest some jaywalkers.

With the state of the boards today it makes far more sense to just have a thread in Team Talk where people can post their ideas.  We used to have one, and it was the best thread that KBM ever started, and it had the most views and posts of any thread on the boards ever, even more than Nut Heads which is older, and that was the Roster Moves thread which had over 500 pages.  Someone deleted it, was that you, Chip?  I mean, if it concerns you that much, why don't you move the Nut Heads thread to the Off Topic Talk forum?  After all, most of the posts are not Grizzles related.

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19 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

The only reason they would trade him at all is if they don't think they will be able to re-sign him. That's the point. If they have space to sign him, why wouldn't they? Or if they fear he's going to leave in free agency regardless, why not get something while you can? 

There's a lot of of different scenarios. We shouldn't offer much more than that, unless we get a commitment on an extension from him like Iggy did with Miami. We could easily just offer him a max in 2021, assuming the salary cap doesn't drop significantly. Conley had two years left on his deal, similar thing with AD, though with a player option instead of a true second year. PG had 3 years left on his contract

 

The Pacers would hang up the phone immediately if we tried to offer Dieng, Grayson and a protected first for Victor Oladipo.

How do we know this? Because is we had a two-time All Star, former 1st team All Defense who just two seasons ago averaged 23, 5, & 4 while leading the league in steals pg at 2.4, and someone called us offering a $17M, 31 year old back-up center, a soon to be 25 year old undersized shooting guard who had started exactly 2 games in his career, and a late 1st round pick, we would hang up the phone on them. You can find Diengs and Graysons almost any time, they have negative trade value or extremely limited trade value.

I mean, we're all Grizz fans, but let's try to be realistic when we offer trade scenarios. 

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