Rdk4121

Grizzles Trade Targets

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one thing that intrigues me watching the heat that i think memphis should consider is putting grayson in a dragic role that herro also plays off the bench as a big PG, and PnR other teams to death.  grayson is 6'5" in shoes with decent length, has solid handles, and has to be respected as a shooter.  in PnR w/ JV or JJJ, if the defending big drops into paint coverage, then he either gets an open 3 or can take a couple dribbles into the paint and force the big to help in which case he can drop the pass to JV/JJJ or shoot a short floater that he's become adept at.  If the big hedges him high at the 3 point line, then he can either drive past them and get an even shorter floater, get deep and get a shot at the rim, toss an alley up to JV or JJJ, or drop a pass into JV or JJJ who now have a mismatch against a guard in the post.  I said a few times that when tyus went down, that they should've had grayson play PG w/ kyle and keep melton strictly off ball since he's been a disaster trying to play PG.

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On 9/22/2020 at 9:55 AM, grizz09 said:

one thing that intrigues me watching the heat that i think memphis should consider is putting grayson in a dragic role that herro also plays off the bench as a big PG, and PnR other teams to death.  grayson is 6'5" in shoes with decent length, has solid handles, and has to be respected as a shooter.  in PnR w/ JV or JJJ, if the defending big drops into paint coverage, then he either gets an open 3 or can take a couple dribbles into the paint and force the big to help in which case he can drop the pass to JV/JJJ or shoot a short floater that he's become adept at.  If the big hedges him high at the 3 point line, then he can either drive past them and get an even shorter floater, get deep and get a shot at the rim, toss an alley up to JV or JJJ, or drop a pass into JV or JJJ who now have a mismatch against a guard in the post.  I said a few times that when tyus went down, that they should've had grayson play PG w/ kyle and keep melton strictly off ball since he's been a disaster trying to play PG.

I hope Grayson gets a lot more burn when the season starts again 

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On 9/22/2020 at 8:55 AM, grizz09 said:

one thing that intrigues me watching the heat that i think memphis should consider is putting grayson in a dragic role that herro also plays off the bench as a big PG, and PnR other teams to death.  grayson is 6'5" in shoes with decent length, has solid handles, and has to be respected as a shooter.  in PnR w/ JV or JJJ, if the defending big drops into paint coverage, then he either gets an open 3 or can take a couple dribbles into the paint and force the big to help in which case he can drop the pass to JV/JJJ or shoot a short floater that he's become adept at. 

Grayson is not in any way a point guard. His career assists per 36 minutes is only 2.6 per game. That's the reason Utah and Quin Snyder gave up on Grayson so quickly, they correctly determined he couldn't be a combo guard. 

Grayson got on a great hot streak in the bubble. Let's hope that continues. But seems like some are attributing skills to Grayson that don't exist. His role is a spot shooting backup 2, not afraid to drive to the rim and has some hops. But not a facilitator or a point guard. A poor defender with a 115 DRtg this season. 

Let's remember those early bubble games where Grayson got hot were all losses. But it's good we have Grayson cheap for two more years. Could be a trade chip, and we hold his RFA rights if he continues to play well and stays healthy.  

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1 hour ago, The J Crew said:

Grayson is not in any way a point guard. His career assists per 36 minutes is only 2.6 per game. That's the reason Utah and Quin Snyder gave up on Grayson so quickly, they correctly determined he couldn't be a combo guard. 

Grayson got on a great hot streak in the bubble. Let's hope that continues. But seems like some are attributing skills to Grayson that don't exist. His role is a spot shooting backup 2, not afraid to drive to the rim and has some hops. But not a facilitator or a point guard. A poor defender with a 115 DRtg this season. 

Let's remember those early bubble games where Grayson got hot were all losses. But it's good we have Grayson cheap for two more years. Could be a trade chip, and we hold his RFA rights if he continues to play well and stays healthy.  

i never said that he's a PG, but he's clearly a combo guard.  he would've done far better playing PG in the bubble compared to melton.  utah gave up on him way too early b/c they were impatient and saw conley as a savior which he is not.  they should've been playing mitchell on ball all along.  look at the driving lanes ja gets playing next to shooters.  you don't think mitchell would have benefited from a floor spacer like allen?  they handicapped all of their depth and paid for it this season.  alot of utah fans are complaining about the trade now and many of them b/c of giving up on allen.  He didn't get enough burn last year for me to worry about his assist rate, that's a poor measure to determine how good a passer an off-ball player is.  if he was playing alot of PG and his assist rate was similarly low then I'd agree with you.  right now he is primarily a slashing shooter who I think would do alot in PnR game b/c of his shooting threat.  he could definitely be used like divincenzo in milwaukee but is a much better shooting threat.  he was playing well for awhile before the bubble/hip injury and when getting regular minutes, so I don't think the bubble was just a hot streak.  and the bubble losses are team losses.  many of those games we stayed competitive in b/c of his shooting.

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55 minutes ago, grizz09 said:

i never said that he's a PG, but he's clearly a combo guard.  he would've done far better playing PG in the bubble compared to melton.  utah gave up on him way too early b/c they were impatient and saw conley as a savior which he is not.  they should've been playing mitchell on ball all along.  look at the driving lanes ja gets playing next to shooters.  you don't think mitchell would have benefited from a floor spacer like allen?  they handicapped all of their depth and paid for it this season.  alot of utah fans are complaining about the trade now and many of them b/c of giving up on allen.  

Dude, you're just rambling on an on, couldn't read it all. But Utah was about 2 inches on a MIke Conley shot away from knocking out Denver, without their 20 points pg, 41% from 3 outside threat, so Utah is just fine, thanks.

And Grayson is not a point guard, hence not a combo guard either by definition. Which is why Taylor quickly figured out never to play Grayson on point, even with Tyus injured for the bubble. 

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On 9/24/2020 at 12:57 PM, The J Crew said:

Grayson is not in any way a point guard. His career assists per 36 minutes is only 2.6 per game. That's the reason Utah and Quin Snyder gave up on Grayson so quickly, they correctly determined he couldn't be a combo guard. 

Grayson got on a great hot streak in the bubble. Let's hope that continues. But seems like some are attributing skills to Grayson that don't exist. His role is a spot shooting backup 2, not afraid to drive to the rim and has some hops. But not a facilitator or a point guard. A poor defender with a 115 DRtg this season. 

Let's remember those early bubble games where Grayson got hot were all losses. But it's good we have Grayson cheap for two more years. Could be a trade chip, and we hold his RFA rights if he continues to play well and stays healthy.  

Doesnt mean he cant get better and become what we need. I do agree with what you said about the current state of him. I wish he could fill that Mike Miller roll for us. 

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2 hours ago, Allen said:

Paul George ?

Considering what they gave up to get him, I bet they are going to want a lot to get rid of him. They'd be selling really low after playoff P made his appearance. 

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I'm still stuck on Victor Oladipo after the latest rumors that he wants a fresh start somewhere else. Obviously still wary because it is possibly a one year rental, plus his less than stellar play this year. Still I think the risk is worth it, he fits in perfectly with the culture here and really would help us both offensively and defensively. He would take us from borderline playoff contention, to potential homecourt contention (realistically like 5th-7th). 

Victor for either Justise or Dillon (whoever gets the deal done), Kyle, and picks. For the picks, I'll assume at least a first is involved (Jazz first we own, but we could send our own if it means only having to send one pick). We have a lot of ways to mix and match with them depending on what they want.

Kyle would be a decent bench player for them, as they don't really have much depth at PF. I'll assume they'll want Dillon because he's slightly younger, a better scorer, and would fit as a nice 6th man for them, as their bench doesn't really have a go to scorer (Jeremy Lamb could have been, but he is probably out all next year). 

We need veteran leadership, and we need someone that is a legitimate threat offensively, and that can hold his own defensively. He checks all of those boxes, and is a good ball handler. Even Dipo's worst year grades out better for advanced stats than Dillon this year. I think they'll pass on Justise because of the injury issues. Only issues with our roster is we'll be very thin at SF, so we either need to bring back Josh, draft one at 40 if we don't trade it, or find a different one with the MLE. 

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On 9/24/2020 at 11:00 AM, grizzgolf said:

I hope Grayson gets a lot more burn when the season starts again 

I hope Grayson can stay healthy enough to get more burn. 

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21 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

I'm still stuck on Victor Oladipo after the latest rumors that he wants a fresh start somewhere else. Obviously still wary because it is possibly a one year rental, plus his less than stellar play this year. Still I think the risk is worth it, he fits in perfectly with the culture here and really would help us both offensively and defensively. He would take us from borderline playoff contention, to potential homecourt contention (realistically like 5th-7th). 

Victor for either Justise or Dillon (whoever gets the deal done), Kyle, and picks. For the picks, I'll assume at least a first is involved (Jazz first we own, but we could send our own if it means only having to send one pick). We have a lot of ways to mix and match with them depending on what they want.

Kyle would be a decent bench player for them, as they don't really have much depth at PF. I'll assume they'll want Dillon because he's slightly younger, a better scorer, and would fit as a nice 6th man for them, as their bench doesn't really have a go to scorer (Jeremy Lamb could have been, but he is probably out all next year). 

We need veteran leadership, and we need someone that is a legitimate threat offensively, and that can hold his own defensively. He checks all of those boxes, and is a good ball handler. Even Dipo's worst year grades out better for advanced stats than Dillon this year. I think they'll pass on Justise because of the injury issues. Only issues with our roster is we'll be very thin at SF, so we either need to bring back Josh, draft one at 40 if we don't trade it, or find a different one with the MLE. 

I like vic I'm just not sure I'd want to give up anything for a rental. Dillon has his issues but he seems to be one of the more sturdy players on the roster

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15 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

I like vic I'm just not sure I'd want to give up anything for a rental. Dillon has his issues but he seems to be one of the more sturdy players on the roster

Dillon's availability has been his best aspect for sure. I think we'd be able to re-sign him fairly easily with all the cap space we'll have next offseason, or at worst we should get a sign and trade deal for him. 

I think his fit really would help us get over the hump to an extent. Just look what Butler did for Miami this year. Who had them in the finals? Vic might not get us there, but if we're in the playoffs you never know what might happen. Nuggets we're a couple of bounces from being up 3-2. 

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4 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

Dillon's availability has been his best aspect for sure. I think we'd be able to re-sign him fairly easily with all the cap space we'll have next offseason, or at worst we should get a sign and trade deal for him. 

I think his fit really would help us get over the hump to an extent. Just look what Butler did for Miami this year. Who had them in the finals? Vic might not get us there, but if we're in the playoffs you never know what might happen. Nuggets we're a couple of bounces from being up 3-2. 

I think he will be a free agent in 2021. I say take a swing, I'm not sure about giving up anything for a potential rental

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4 hours ago, toocoolkellz said:

I think he will be a free agent in 2021. I say take a swing, I'm not sure about giving up anything for a potential rental

Thats why I like the S&T deal I suggested on the other thread, I think is realistic, will improve us short and longterm and will allow us to  set our young core for years. 

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https://tradenba.com/trades/dHK7T9454

That's essentially the deal, I think this makes every team involved better. Hield wants out of Sac, Turner and Sabonis don't fit, Hield also can replace Dipo, we dump Kyle to Sac and give them a future second (I put it as this year's second, but it can be whatever). We get our guy, plus we clear an extra 23 million for next offseason by getting rid of Kyle and Justise or Dillon. 

So in that 2021 offseason we'd have Ja, Jaren, Brandon, Grayson, Tyus, JV, Dillon or Justise, possibly Melton, and bird rights for Oladipo, with around 55 million give or take in cap space. 

Side not, the website I listed is awesome for making up some trades, and you can include picks and stuff. Check it out. 

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6 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

https://tradenba.com/trades/dHK7T9454

That's essentially the deal, I think this makes every team involved better. Hield wants out of Sac, Turner and Sabonis don't fit, Hield also can replace Dipo, we dump Kyle to Sac and give them a future second (I put it as this year's second, but it can be whatever). We get our guy, plus we clear an extra 23 million for next offseason by getting rid of Kyle and Justise or Dillon. 

So in that 2021 offseason we'd have Ja, Jaren, Brandon, Grayson, Tyus, JV, Dillon or Justise, possibly Melton, and bird rights for Oladipo, with around 55 million give or take in cap space. 

Side not, the website I listed is awesome for making up some trades, and you can include picks and stuff. Check it out. 

I prefer to keep Justise over Dillon but I believe they would ask for more than a pick for both of those guys.

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On 9/29/2020 at 4:13 PM, Rdk4121 said:

I'm still stuck on Victor Oladipo after the latest rumors that he wants a fresh start somewhere else. Obviously still wary because it is possibly a one year rental, plus his less than stellar play this year. Still I think the risk is worth it, he fits in perfectly with the culture here and really would help us both offensively and defensively. He would take us from borderline playoff contention, to potential homecourt contention (realistically like 5th-7th). 

Victor for either Justise or Dillon (whoever gets the deal done), Kyle, and picks. For the picks, I'll assume at least a first is involved (Jazz first we own, but we could send our own if it means only having to send one pick). We have a lot of ways to mix and match with them depending on what they want.

Kyle would be a decent bench player for them, as they don't really have much depth at PF. I'll assume they'll want Dillon because he's slightly younger, a better scorer, and would fit as a nice 6th man for them, as their bench doesn't really have a go to scorer (Jeremy Lamb could have been, but he is probably out all next year). 

We need veteran leadership, and we need someone that is a legitimate threat offensively, and that can hold his own defensively. He checks all of those boxes, and is a good ball handler. Even Dipo's worst year grades out better for advanced stats than Dillon this year. I think they'll pass on Justise because of the injury issues. Only issues with our roster is we'll be very thin at SF, so we either need to bring back Josh, draft one at 40 if we don't trade it, or find a different one with the MLE. 

Dipo here is a terrible idea

His current team is better than we are in and have a easier route to the finals then coming West. 
He does not fit the timeline of our best core players. 
He is about to become overpaid after this contract and has not done anything of note after recovering from the injury. 
He is looking to stay in the East likely and become a complimentary star at over 30 mil a year. 
Lastly he is not a fit culturally he is quitting on a good team in which he can help lead for greener pastures that may be less challenging. 

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24 minutes ago, QMemphis said:

Dipo here is a terrible idea

His current team is better than we are in and have a easier route to the finals then coming West. 
He does not fit the timeline of our best core players. 
He is about to become overpaid after this contract and has not done anything of note after recovering from the injury. 
He is looking to stay in the East likely and become a complimentary star at over 30 mil a year. 
Lastly he is not a fit culturally he is quitting on a good team in which he can help lead for greener pastures that may be less challenging. 

Alright point by point

1. Sure, but that doesn't mean he wants to still be there.
2. Arguable, yes he's older, but he's younger than JV, not much older than Kyle. Plus, look how we finished down the stretch, having a experienced guy was so desperately needed, but was completely lacking after Jae and Hill got traded. I personally think our timeline got accelerated by how good Jaren and Ja already are. Look how competitive the Nuggets and Mavericks already are, yet they have players just a couple of years older than our main guys.
3. Overpaid is relative, if he plays like an all-star is 30 million overpaid? Not in my opinion, but that doesn't matter.  We have no idea where he wants to play, so saying he wants to stay in the East is a little odd. Is he going to get a near max contract? Yes. Who else are we going to spend that money on? Free agent stars don't want to come here, therefore we either have to acquire them by trade or through the draft. We already have two stars and another very good player through the draft, but we're most likely not going to be top 4 again anytime soon. Trade is pretty much our only option. As for the complementary star, I mean that's what he would be here. Ja is our alpha, number 1 option. Jaren is certainly in the mix as well. Dipo is a really good 2nd or 3rd option. 
4. That's not really fair to say. The team is going to look a lot different next year anyway with Turner most likely being traded, a new coach for sure. He's been there 3 years and they haven't made it out of the first round once (he missed one of those years with an injury to be fair). It is normal to want a fresh start. Kemba wasn't a bad cultural fit for the Celtics for wanting out of the Hornets. It didn't work out. There's no easy path to the finals. Even in the East you have the Nets, Heat, Celtics, Bucks, and possibly the Sixers that are legit contenders. Heck even the Wizards might be sneaky good next year. 

1 hour ago, Ja_Rules said:

I prefer to keep Justise over Dillon but I believe they would ask for more than a pick for both of those guys.

I mean the Pacers get a fairly good deal with a solid young role player and a first. Not sure what else they could realistically get.

For the Kings, maybe. Kyle isn't awful, maybe we throw in another one though. I think he'd have some use there given Bagley's injury history. I prefer to keep Justise, but I think he's probably more valuable than Dillon so really whatever gets the deal done. 

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4 hours ago, Ja_Rules said:

I prefer to keep Justise over Dillon but I believe they would ask for more than a pick for both of those guys.

On paper Winslow is the better overall player but Dillon is probably the most durable player on the team minus his freak accident 2and year. Winslow on the other hand is by far the most fragile. I would be reluctant to keep the most fragile while trading for an injured guy as well. Imagine making that trade and neither Justice or Vic play much due to injury. Now we look like idiots 

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5 hours ago, Ja_Rules said:

Thats why I like the S&T deal I suggested on the other thread, I think is realistic, will improve us short and longterm and will allow us to  set our young core for years. 

I'm more on board with that depending on what we're trading

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17 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

Dillon's availability has been his best aspect for sure. I think we'd be able to re-sign him fairly easily with all the cap space we'll have next offseason, or at worst we should get a sign and trade deal for him. 

I think his fit really would help us get over the hump to an extent. Just look what Butler did for Miami this year. Who had them in the finals? Vic might not get us there, but if we're in the playoffs you never know what might happen. Nuggets we're a couple of bounces from being up 3-2. 

The question I would wonder is Vic okay with signing with us?

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2 hours ago, toocoolkellz said:

The question I would wonder is Vic okay with signing with us?

That's certainly the main concern. If he wants a big market or easy championship contender, then we're out and should stay away from trading for him. 

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1 hour ago, fanboyslim said:

Two days younger. 

Well two days older actually than JV, but the overall point was he's not like way older than everyone like Horford or DeRozan would be. I was also thinking of Harris when I said he was younger. 

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