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3 minutes ago, bhoyal said:

What's up with that?  I know everybody is shaking the rust off, but... :o

Not sure. It's alarming. One of his weaknesses/red flags coming out of Michigan State and it looks like he still has the same problems.  Maybe his defense isn't fundamentally sound.  Who knows.  We need him out there for his 3 point shooting.  BUT... if those shots aren't falling AND he is in foul trouble it's better to go with JV/Clarke up front.  

On defense, he needs to play straight-up conservative defense.  On offense he should either shoot the ball or pass.  Run a bunch of pick and pops 25 feet out to do 2 things: free up Jaren for an open 3 AND get Ja running downhill towards the rim (and a more spaced out floor).  

Clarke might need to play more minutes along with Tolliver.  Maybe we even start Jaren to get him going early along with Clarke giving us our top five "talent" guys a chance to start the game (Ja/Dillon/Kyle/Clarke/Jaren) with Jonas and Tolliver coming off the bench (along with Tyus/Melton and whoever else).

If we start the game running high pick-and-pops we would have Clarke on the baseline for lobs/put backs with Kyle and Dillon in the corners.  

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He needs to visit a sports psychologist asap. I'm dead serious. This won't change anytime soon if he tries to do it himself. He clearly knows and it seems as if he is aware, but he continues to do the same dumb stuff

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15 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

He needs to visit a sports psychologist asap. I'm dead serious. This won't change anytime soon if he tries to do it himself. He clearly knows and it seems as if he is aware, but he continues to do the same dumb stuff

Last night I revisited the 2018 draft thread.  Other than being a highly entertaining read, a lot of the takes on the top draft studs (and duds?) were spot-on, although every poster pretty much covered EVERY base (lots of hedged bets), and a guy like Jaren is basically the same guy he was in college and the guy lots of us feared he would be (even the ones who liked him and were on Jaren Island).  I think we should put him on less-athletic centers who are slower and not as long.  Bring JV off the bench.  Let Clarke/Kyle mop up any defensive miscues by Ja and the Foul Brothers (Jaren/Dillon).  Jaren is gonna make his money off 3 point shooting and shadow-boxing defense (not even sure what that is, but it sounds really, really cool) -- not Dikembe post-mortem finger-wagging.  

Ja/Dillon/Kyle/Clarke/Jaren might be the lineup of our near future anyway, and maybe the near future starts Friday....

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1 hour ago, ALT GRIND said:

Last night I revisited the 2018 draft thread.  Other than being a highly entertaining read, a lot of the takes on the top draft studs (and duds?) were spot-on, although every poster pretty much covered EVERY base (lots of hedged bets), and a guy like Jaren is basically the same guy he was in college and the guy lots of us feared he would be (even the ones who liked him and were on Jaren Island).  I think we should put him on less-athletic centers who are slower and not as long.  Bring JV off the bench.  Let Clarke/Kyle mop up any defensive miscues by Ja and the Foul Brothers (Jaren/Dillon).  Jaren is gonna make his money off 3 point shooting and shadow-boxing defense (not even sure what that is, but it sounds really, really cool) -- not Dikembe post-mortem finger-wagging.  

Ja/Dillon/Kyle/Clarke/Jaren might be the lineup of our near future anyway, and maybe the near future starts Friday....

IDK. I wouldn't punish JV to help Jaren. JJJ needs to get his head on straight and figure out why he fouls so much. In that second game against HOU, he committed a couple of just head scratching fouls (well, that i saw. I didn't watch the entire game) He needs to stop that stuff so he can stay on the court. Also, in the NBA Restart recap, there is a clip of him on the bench after getting a foul talking to himself about verticality and staying vertical. He knows what he needs to do, he just isn't doing it for some reason. That's why I suggested a sports psychologist. 

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26 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

IDK. I wouldn't punish JV to help Jaren. JJJ needs to get his head on straight and figure out why he fouls so much. In that second game against HOU, he committed a couple of just head scratching fouls (well, that i saw. I didn't watch the entire game) He needs to stop that stuff so he can stay on the court. Also, in the NBA Restart recap, this is a clip of him on the bench after getting a foul talking to himself about verticality and staying vertical. He knows what he needs to do, he just isn't doing it for some reason. That's why I suggested a sports psychologist. 

No shame in seeking professional help. I agree with you.

Whatever the issue is could be a multiple M$ difference if it costs him a max deal.

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19 minutes ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

I think you guys are overthinking it, he's just fairly uncoordinated

He commits one or two frustration fouls every game. That's mental.  He has coordination issues too. So it's both which is why he is so bad at fouling. 

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1 hour ago, Dwash said:

He commits one or two frustration fouls every game. That's mental.  He has coordination issues too. So it's both which is why he is so bad at fouling. 

I looked at the old 2018 draft thread and these were some points led by the Anti-Jaren prosecution team (I was never a huge fan going in) but KBM brought up good points that he wasn’t a freakishly athletic big and wasn’t a true defensive specialist but more of a help defender and rim protector.  Maybe most 4’s are as quick (or quicker) and as long (or longer) than Jaren so he doesn’t really have much of an advantage guarding big forwards — especially in space.  Maybe he would be better off guarding centers, most of whom are either slower or less athletic. And not many centers are longer than Jaren.  So Jaren would have better odds guarding most centers then he could take them out to the 3 point line on the other side of the ball.  Put Clarke on the quicker 4’s.  Bring Jonas off the bench.  

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What's more alarming to me is how the coaches haven't really adress this yet.

It feels like they're not even having this conversation in the lockers room.

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Some of those fouls make me want to scream

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9 hours ago, grizzgolf said:

Some of those fouls make me want to scream

It is frustating, he has to position himself better, its all about knowing when or not to expose himself. Also he could become a better rebounder simply because of this understanding

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14 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

Last night I revisited the 2018 draft thread.  Other than being a highly entertaining read, a lot of the takes on the top draft studs (and duds?) were spot-on, although every poster pretty much covered EVERY base (lots of hedged bets), and a guy like Jaren is basically the same guy he was in college and the guy lots of us feared he would be (even the ones who liked him and were on Jaren Island).  I think we should put him on less-athletic centers who are slower and not as long.  Bring JV off the bench.  Let Clarke/Kyle mop up any defensive miscues by Ja and the Foul Brothers (Jaren/Dillon).  Jaren is gonna make his money off 3 point shooting and shadow-boxing defense (not even sure what that is, but it sounds really, really cool) -- not Dikembe post-mortem finger-wagging.  

Ja/Dillon/Kyle/Clarke/Jaren might be the lineup of our near future anyway, and maybe the near future starts Friday....

people on draft night thought he'd be a 40% high volume 3 point shooter?

 

He's the opposite of what he was billed. He was supposed to be this amazing defensive specimen and maybe his offense would develop and instead he's this amazing pick and pop and even low post offensive player who can't stop fouling or play fundamental defense

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Guys he’s 20 years old. Relax

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11 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

I looked at the old 2018 draft thread and these were some points led by the Anti-Jaren prosecution team (I was never a huge fan going in) but KBM brought up good points that he wasn’t a freakishly athletic big and wasn’t a true defensive specialist but more of a help defender and rim protector.  Maybe most 4’s are as quick (or quicker) and as long (or longer) than Jaren so he doesn’t really have much of an advantage guarding big forwards — especially in space.  Maybe he would be better off guarding centers, most of whom are either slower or less athletic. And not many centers are longer than Jaren.  So Jaren would have better odds guarding most centers then he could take them out to the 3 point line on the other side of the ball.  Put Clarke on the quicker 4’s.  Bring Jonas off the bench.  

they had Jaren playing the 5 in plenty of situations this season...and when against the top half of them got into foul trouble, showed little physicality...it isnt pretty.  Maybe it will develop, but this scenario doesnt work for me.  And Clarke is a number 6... you can experiment bringing in Jonas off the bench...but why given what he brings...

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It's the fouls JJJ commits 30 to 70 feet from the basket.  Cut those out and it's a couple of less fouls per game.

And thus maybe he doesn't foul out.  Maybe.

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13 hours ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

I think you guys are overthinking it, he's just fairly uncoordinated

And the ray of sunshine is back on the boards. 

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42 minutes ago, Allen said:

Guys he’s 20 years old. Relax

The playoffs are 8 games away. The team needs to think about that and not how young Jaren is. 

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12 hours ago, costarica2 said:

What's more alarming to me is how the coaches haven't really adress this yet.

It feels like they're not even having this conversation in the lockers room.

I'm pretty sure they are but like I said earlier, it seems as if he knows what to do, he just doesn't do it. There is only so much a coach can do once the player is on teh court, other than yanking him off of the court which i'm sure no one wants to do. When he stays on the court and produces, he's a very good young player. His problem is, he can't stay on the court to get the opportunity to produce on a regular basis,.

4 hours ago, Allen said:

Guys he’s 20 years old. Relax

Yes he is and everyone understands that but it's also beneficial for young people to show growth and you have to pound stuff into young people's heads or they pick up bad habits which are hard to break later in their careers. 

He has shown some growth on the offensive end of the floor, mainly 3 point shooting but other aspects of his game have regressed between his first and second years. Overall, he's fine as a second year player but at what point does the coaching staff and Ja (and others to a certain point) begin not trusting that Jaren can stay on the floor? I think people were expecting progress in certain areas such as his foul rate, rebounding, 2 point FG%, on court positioning, and free throw shooting but he regressed in all of those areas. That's not to discount his gains made in points, 3 pointers and assists but to me, he's becoming a guy who can't stay on the floor due to fouls and when he is on the floor, he's jacking up 3's and blocking shots playing help side defense and that's about it. That's not going to cut it for someone being the second best player on a good team. Third best player, probably but not 2nd best on a good team.

He's supposed to be our second best player or even in a perfect scenario 1a and 1b with Ja but to me, JV is our second best player/2nd most important player right now and JJJ is in a three way tie for third with Dillon and BC. 

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7 hours ago, Lugan Village said:

they had Jaren playing the 5 in plenty of situations this season...and when against the top half of them got into foul trouble, showed little physicality...it isnt pretty.  Maybe it will develop, but this scenario doesnt work for me.  And Clarke is a number 6... you can experiment bringing in Jonas off the bench...but why given what he brings...

I want a bit more quickness and floor spacing in the starting five.  Playing Jaren at the 5 and running tons of high pick and pops would do that.  A high pick and pop will get Jaren some great looks from 3 AND help Ja get a downhill running start to the basket.  Clarke can be a baseline lob threat with Kyle and Dillon on the wings as spot-up threats.  What we lack in size on defense guarding the 4/5 spots we can hopefully make up on speed, athleticism and shooting/scoring.  

If we play the Lakers and they bring Dwight Howard off the bench then I like that matchup for Jonas.  Melton would also matchup with their wacky bench guards like JR Smith and Dion Waiters.

Another thing: Brandon Clarke is basically a tweener on both sides of the ball.  Not big enough to guard true bigs and not agile enough to guard wings.  And he has a mediocre wing span even for a 2/3.  Basically, we don’t really have anyone who can guard Anthony Davis.  Or a Giannis type.  But that being said I really don’t want to draft another power forward for the 3rd year in a row (and like 5 of the past 6 or 7 years).  

Fortunately it looks like we are set on the wing with Dillon/Kyle and obviously at point guard with Ja (and Melton as a great backup).  When Tyus gets back maybe he should be our third stringer....  

Anthony Tolliver could end up being our X factor/8th man.

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54 minutes ago, pjs said:

I'm betting Jaren will be fine.  Hang in there.

once he goes 35 - 15  all will be good

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14 minutes ago, lions said:

once he goes 35 - 15  all will be good

Sometimes offense is the best defense.  Don't worry too much about D and fouls and just let it fly, Jaren!  

... and if that fails we are gonna trade you to Golden State for the rights to James Wiseman.

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