ALT GRIND

Grizzlies Bubble Rotation. Discuss.

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Grizzlies Bubble Rotation

 

1st Team

PG Ja "Batman" Morant

SG Jon "Robin" Konchar

SF Brandon Clarke aka Spider-Man

PF Jaren "Clark Kent" Jackson

C Jonas Valancuinas aka SUPERMAN

2nd Team

PG De'Anthony Melton

SG Dillon Brooks

SF Josh Jackson

PF Justise Winslow aka Point Power Forward Man

C Gorgui Dieng

3rd Team

PG Tyus Jones

SG Grayson Allen

SF Raynere Thornton

PF Yuta Watanabe

C Anthony Tolliver

 

Orlando, Florida: Home of the 15 man rotation

#discuss

 

 

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Oops.  Forgot about Kyle Anderson.  He should be the PF on the third team.  Yuta Watanabe gets demoted to 16th man.

Who is the 17th man?

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If they're actually interested in playoffs, they'll keep it tight n get the guys they want moving forward gelling as much as possible.

Morant-Jones

Brooks-Melton

Winslow-Jackson

Jackson-Clarke

Valanciunas-Dieng

Allen, Anderson, Guduric, Konchar, Tolliver + Watanabe as 3rd stringers/injury.

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1 hour ago, cdp said:

If they're actually interested in playoffs, they'll keep it tight n get the guys they want moving forward gelling as much as possible.

Morant-Jones

Brooks-Melton

Winslow-Jackson

Jackson-Clarke

Valanciunas-Dieng

Allen, Anderson, Guduric, Konchar, Tolliver + Watanabe as 3rd stringers/injury.

Yup, that's it. That's exactly what I think the lineup should be. 

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I do think Jenkins will start with the same 5 he use during most of the season ( when no injury). Slomo will start  and Winslow, Jackson, Melton, Clarke, Jones and Dieng will come from the bench.

Rest will get few mins depends on fouls and game issue.

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3 hours ago, cdp said:

If they're actually interested in playoffs, they'll keep it tight n get the guys they want moving forward gelling as much as possible.

Morant-Jones

Brooks-Melton

Winslow-Jackson

Jackson-Clarke

Valanciunas-Dieng

Allen, Anderson, Guduric, Konchar, Tolliver + Watanabe as 3rd stringers/injury.

I hope it will be a 11 man rotation, but with 9 players get the main minutes, Dieng, SlowMo and Allen play if it is necessary.

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11 hours ago, cdp said:

If they're actually interested in playoffs, they'll keep it tight n get the guys they want moving forward gelling as much as possible.

Morant-Jones

Brooks-Melton

Winslow-Jackson

Jackson-Clarke

Valanciunas-Dieng

Allen, Anderson, Guduric, Konchar, Tolliver + Watanabe as 3rd stringers/injury.

agreed 

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11 hours ago, cdp said:

If they're actually interested in playoffs, they'll keep it tight n get the guys they want moving forward gelling as much as possible.

Morant-Jones

Brooks-Melton

Winslow-Jackson

Jackson-Clarke

Valanciunas-Dieng

Allen, Anderson, Guduric, Konchar, Tolliver + Watanabe as 3rd stringers/injury.

Sounds about right 

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15 hours ago, cdp said:

If they're actually interested in playoffs, they'll keep it tight n get the guys they want moving forward gelling as much as possible.

Morant-Jones

Brooks-Melton

Winslow-Jackson

Jackson-Clarke

Valanciunas-Dieng

Allen, Anderson, Guduric, Konchar, Tolliver + Watanabe as 3rd stringers/injury.

Winner Chicken Dinner GIFs - Get the best GIF on GIPHY

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I think the hope is Ja/Dillon/Winslow/Jaren/Jonas as the starting five BUT I bet Winslow has to earn it....

Kyle Anderson is limited and might be REALLY slow going into the Bubble, BUT he is super crafty, long, really good on defense, has a nice Euro Step, can rebound, and a really good passer/secondary play maker.  He isn't a shooter/scorer but if he hits enough open corner 3's then he will be highly effective.

That five man unit was effective.  It lost 4 straight games towards the end of the year, then they righted the ship.

Ja/Melton/Dillon/Clarke/Jaren was highly effective.  I want to see a lot of that lineup.  

Here's another really cool, high octane lineup that we should look into: Ja/Dillon/Clarke/Jaren/Jonas.  They could even start.  Clarke can hit corner 3's and floaters, is our best lob threat and fast break finisher, and probably the second beast rebounder (and shot blocker) on the team.  I assume he can guard wings.  ... Jaren is solid on defense pretty much everywhere but maybe a bit overrated in particular (and some of his defensive advanced stats are abysmal), but he is a lethal 3 point threat (maybe one of the best in the league), and he can (at times) effectively attack closeouts.  Dillon/Clarke/Jaren offer a ton of defensive potential and offensive potency at the 2-4 spots.  

THEN you can have Justise Winslow as the super sub who can fill in for any of those starting five.  I would sub him in for Ja then go "all in" on size/defense/rebounding/bully ball.  

After that, our next substitution would be Melton for the big man (Jonas) giving us another high octane, versatile lineup of Melton/Dillon/Winslow/Clarke/Jaren.

Platoon Ball is probably the way to go in the Bubble.  Or, at least in the 8 game string.  

I would also look into having a 3rd string MASH UNIT that specializes in full court pressure defense, hustle/rebounding, and cutting/open 3 pointers for offense.  Maybe you close out the first half with those guys.  The Grizzlies can bring 17 players to MickeyVegas... why not go 15 deep?

 

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Just now, ALT GRIND said:

I think the hope is Ja/Dillon/Winslow/Jaren/Jonas as the starting five BUT I bet Winslow has to earn it....
Isn't that what the mini camp is for? Winslow has three weeks and three scrimmages to prove he belongs in the starting rotation. 

Kyle Anderson is limited and might be REALLY slow going into the Bubble, BUT he is super crafty, long, really good on defense, has a nice Euro Step, can rebound, and a really good passer/secondary play maker.  He isn't a shooter/scorer but if he hits enough open corner 3's then he will be highly effective.

Those skills will fit in nicely with Josh Jackson, De'Anthony Melton, Tyus Jones and Brandon Clarke on a small ball second five. 

That five man unit was effective.  It lost 4 straight games towards the end of the year, then they righted the ship.

You mean when a lot of our players were injured, beaten up or just plain tired? 

Ja/Melton/Dillon/Clarke/Jaren was highly effective.  I want to see a lot of that lineup.  

Starting lineups aren't limited to only playing together. There can be multiple lineups getting playing time together. Also, I don't believe that any lineup with Jaren at center outperformed a similar lineup with JV at center but I haven't seen the stats to back that up. 

Here's another really cool, high octane lineup that we should look into: Ja/Dillon/Clarke/Jaren/Jonas.  They could even start.  Clarke can hit corner 3's and floaters, is our best lob threat and fast break finisher, and probably the second beast rebounder (and shot blocker) on the team.  I assume he can guard wings.  ... Jaren is solid on defense pretty much everywhere but maybe a bit overrated in particular (and some of his defensive advanced stats are abysmal), but he is a lethal 3 point threat (maybe one of the best in the league), and he can (at times) effectively attack closeouts.  Dillon/Clarke/Jaren offer a ton of defensive potential and offensive potency at the 2-4 spots.  

There are numerous lineups that can be tinkered with in camp and in scrimmages prior to the really important 8 games. Once the real games begin I hope the tinkering will be kept to a minimum. 

THEN you can have Justise Winslow as the super sub who can fill in for any of those starting five.  I would sub him in for Ja then go "all in" on size/defense/rebounding/bully ball.
  
Luckily you aren't the coach making those calls. Tyus Jones and De'Anthony Melton seem to be much more logical choices to sub for Ja.  

After that, our next substitution would be Melton for the big man (Jonas) giving us another high octane, versatile lineup of Melton/Dillon/Winslow/Clarke/Jaren.

Platoon Ball is probably the way to go in the Bubble.  Or, at least in the 8 game string.  

Since fatigue won't be an issue I would imagine putting the best players on the court as often as possible to lock down the playoff spot should be the highest priority for teams in 8th or lower. Platoon ball is for teams with the luxury of a locked in playoff spot. 

I would also look into having a 3rd string MASH UNIT that specializes in full court pressure defense, hustle/rebounding, and cutting/open 3 pointers for offense.  Maybe you close out the first half with those guys.  The Grizzlies can bring 17 players to MickeyVegas... why not go 15 deep?

Because they have to win at least 5 of the games to make sure they make the playoffs and probably need six wins to avoid a play in scenario. 

 

 

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I wonder how Winslow is going to look with all that time off

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5 minutes ago, CoolHandGriz said:

Alt’s mock rotation will be about as accurate as his mock drafts... 
 

Konchar in the starting lineup and Luka’s a late first rounder right? 

MID-FIRST ROUNDER in Luka's case.  

I think I was right about Ja Morant though....  

My 2018 big board wasn't right, it wasn't even WRONG.

Ja one, Co-Morbid Zion SHOULD BE 4.  Slimmed-down, Dream Team Chuck-esque Zion Williamson?  2 more than likely.

Back to 2018: I was closer to Mitch Rob's real value than anyone.  Same with Donte Inferno.  I also like Sexton/Mikal Bridges in the 4/5 range.  After that I had (I think the correct order) Ayton/Luka/Wendell Carter, Jr.  I STILL think Ayton is an option 1a (but his defense shows reasons for optimism).   Yeah, yeah, Kostas Freak at TWO is all-time BAD.  Although I still like the promise and is worth a pick up.  Could still end up being a good lob/pick and roll threat who can defend all over the floor.

In some ways, I think Mitch Rob offers more rim running/rim protection/rebounding skill/talent/upside than James Wiseman (and I said so 2 years ago, right around the 2018 draft).  Might even has as much/more upside/promise than a couple of hyped up bigs in the next few draft classes: Evan Mobley and Chet Holmgren.

Is Luka the next Bird?  If so, I slotted him right.  Larry Bird was maybe not athletic enough for a modern style.  Then you have Luka as being a less proficient jump shooter, but on infinitely higher volume.  Defense could go either way.  ... so Bird with less defensive upside and a worse jumper would have been a good pick at 4-5 but more likely a GREAT PICK at 8-10.

Luka's better comparison would be the Mickey Mantle or Mike Troutt of basketball.  OR... a less athletic/explosive LeBron James.

Oh, I also had Jaren at 33 which is probably a big miss.  BUT, if he is just John Salley with a 3 ball then I think that is a mid-lotto/late first round type player.  Jaren has more upside since I think he is a SUPER HIGH VOLUME 3 point gunner -- I was thinking 8 attempts per game before this season,  now I am thinking 10-12 long-ball attempts per game (or maybe even 15).

So... what can I learn from my 2018 and 2019 big boards?  Don't see a Ja or Zion in this thing.  I think Deni is the guy everyone thought Luka was -- flashes of Larry Bird, etc.  Not even sure there are any prototypical role players in this thing, like a Mitch Rob, Donte Inferno, Mikal Bridges, Brandon Clarke, etc.  But... go get shooters like Trae or Herro or Shamet but lower... maybe as trade down guys.  

Ironically, Mitch Rob (2018 top pick) and Ja (2019 top pick) looks like an ALL-TIME pick and roll combo.  Maybe an ideal big/5 to pair with Ja.  

But... didn't see Ja back in 2018.  I was mainly looking forward to Wiseman (I called him a poor man's Mitch Rob essentially) and Zion Williamson.  ... although I DID think that the future archetype guard I liked was a Donovan Mitchell type.  

I think I really like Deni.  Maybe even as a top pick.  ESPECIALLY if no one else has him first.  Wiseman at 2 since I like his stuff -- and I don't think Edwards or LaMelo is worth the 2nd pick.  Don't love either archetype and NEITHER is IDEAL for their individual archetype.  I am higher on Achuiwa.  I am liking Paul Reed.  Then other than those guys and shooters/wings like Mason Jones, Markus Howard, Isaiah Joe, Cassius Stanley and Devin Vassell (as a bouncy Danny Green type although he might be a bit too high on the draft boards...) I don't like a whole bunch of guys in this thing.  Aleksej Pokusevski looks like a guy with top 10 potential.  ... Xavier Tillman has tools.  Other than that, I am looking at DEEP sleeper type big men who can protect the rim some, dunk, rebound a bit, and move their feet on defense.  ... worst case scenario we take a shot on a guy who can be a long-term fourth big behind Jaren/Clarke/Jonas.

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36 minutes ago, CoolHandGriz said:

Alt’s mock rotation will be about as accurate as his mock drafts... 
 

Konchar in the starting lineup and Luka’s a late first rounder right? 

I didn't have the Kon Man on my big board although I DID look into him a bit...

Well, the rocket surgeons for Team Grizz are considering starting Slo Mo at the 3.  So, the guy who was super SLOW, kinda out of shape, AND a bad/abysmal jump shooter BEFORE the Corona Mania Lock Down Basketball Apocalpyse.

Ja and the Kon Man is a good back court combo.  Clarke at the 3?  Why not?  OR is he not the guy we think he is?  Is he not Scottie Pippen (without the play making and passing) or even '83 Bobby Jones -- maybe he's just an overly athletic/explosive/fast Kurt Rambis.  Oh well.  Why didn't anyone tell me this???

 

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On 7/9/2020 at 5:21 PM, ALT GRIND said:

I didn't have the Kon Man on my big board although I DID look into him a bit...

Well, the rocket surgeons for Team Grizz are considering starting Slo Mo at the 3.  So, the guy who was super SLOW, kinda out of shape, AND a bad/abysmal jump shooter BEFORE the Corona Mania Lock Down Basketball Apocalpyse.

Ja and the Kon Man is a good back court combo.  Clarke at the 3?  Why not?  OR is he not the guy we think he is?  Is he not Scottie Pippen (without the play making and passing) or even '83 Bobby Jones -- maybe he's just an overly athletic/explosive/fast Kurt Rambis.  Oh well.  Why didn't anyone tell me this???

 

I can see Anderson still starting

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I also like Anderson as the creator in the second unit. Ja has all the creativity needed for the first unit. 

We have a team capable of making a lot of "what did they just DO?" plays. 

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3 hours ago, TimBC said:

I also like Anderson as the creator in the second unit. Ja has all the creativity needed for the first unit. 

We have a team capable of making a lot of "what did they just DO?" plays. 

True. True. True. Slo Mo is a really good passer and playmaker. Plus, he can defend and rebound.  Maybe he can work with Jaren on the Slo Mo Step.  Kyle can’t really shoot so if he hits enough shots he will be really good for us. Even as a starter.

I am guessing that him and Winslow bring similar skill sets.  I guess we will find out who starts.

Oh, and can we sign Joe Johnson?  He’s going off in The Basketball Tournament.  Can shoot, score... ISO, catch/shoot along with some play making and rebounding.  Could be an ideal 6th man or second unit gunner in Bubble World.

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Kyle in the second unit doesn't do anything more for facilitating than Tyus and Melton already do on that unit. That unit needs scoring which is why Josh has fit in so well on it. 

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1 hour ago, Rdk4121 said:

Kyle in the second unit doesn't do anything more for facilitating than Tyus and Melton already do on that unit. That unit needs scoring which is why Josh has fit in so well on it. 

I think that factors into our starting wing player discussion.  We need balance in the starting lineup AND off the bench.

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19 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

I think that factors into our starting wing player discussion.  We need balance in the starting lineup AND off the bench.

Kyle does fit the defense, rebounding, and facilitating role well for the starters, but his lack of offense and shooting kills the offense. Justise provides all those other things Kyle provides, but in theory he can help stretch the floor on offense as he's at least a relatively willing shooter. 

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59 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

Kyle does fit the defense, rebounding, and facilitating role well for the starters, but his lack of offense and shooting kills the offense. Justise provides all those other things Kyle provides, but in theory he can help stretch the floor on offense as he's at least a relatively willing shooter. 

Then who fits better with a Tyus/Josh/Melton/Clarke/Dieng bench mob?

Or...  just sign Joe Johnson. Either to start.  Be a sixth man or being a top option with the bench mob.  

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I don't understand why we need to change something who work pretty well during regular season.  With everybody  fit, just find a place for Winslow in the rotation and see how it goes. Those guys did not play much together because of the lockdown. The first 3 games will be very important, keep the people who use to play together. Best option to secure the PO fast. And i agree about the fact that Slomo  is a great passer and defender. Defender that JA and JV are not really great. Keeping Slomo + Dilon make a good balance for me. 

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15 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

Kyle in the second unit doesn't do anything more for facilitating than Tyus and Melton already do on that unit. That unit needs scoring which is why Josh has fit in so well on it. 

I think Josh blows up in Orlando 

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