Kevin B Moses

In terms of talent, Josh Jackson is our third most talented player ... But he won't be here next year

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Y'all see talent. I see erratic play. A see a ton of bad decisions that sometimes work out. (Same problem I have with Dillon Brooks shooting- takes a ton of bad shots but sometimes they work.) I think the same knocks on Josh that have been there are still there- lots of possibility, poor shooting, and low BBIQ

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22 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Y'all see talent. I see erratic play. A see a ton of bad decisions that sometimes work out. (Same problem I have with Dillon Brooks shooting- takes a ton of bad shots but sometimes they work.) I think the same knocks on Josh that have been there are still there- lots of possibility, poor shooting, and low BBIQ

what you just said about Josh and Dillon could also be applied to Jaren Jackson Jr and Ja Morant.

You seriously don't see the dumb plays that ja makes on a daily basis?

but don't worry there's probably less than 20% chance that the grizzlies actually sign Josh Jackson pass this season, regardless of what he's doing.

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15 hours ago, grizz09 said:

agreed, although when you look at his actual numbers, he's shooting horribly.   in 20 min/game x 17 games he has 42/30/68 shooting splits which is basically identical to his career averages in 173 games.  that's pretty terrible.  he's basically a taller/more athletic melton in that he's a do everything type player, but he's not a natural shooter/scorer.  he's got above average to elite athleticism, but i don't think he's above average much less elite at any actual basketball skill other than maybe ball-handling.  he seems to be a good passer as well.

I wouldn't judge him based on his first 17 games.   He wasn't getting consistent minutes and was finding rhythm with team.    I would judge him based on his last 10 which is when he started getting consistent minutes.    

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612763/players-traditional/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&LastNGames=10

21.4mpg     44FG% /35% 3Pt /  3rb  / 2.1ast /1.1stl /0.8blk/ 1.1 TOV

He is an elite athlete with solid ball-handling/passing and slashing skills and a passable jumpshot.    If ya'll dinging him for erratic play then Melton and Dillon should be dinged even worse.  

Melton 

22.9mpg     36.5FG% /44% 3Pt /  2.9rb  / 2.9ast /1.0 stl /0.4blk/ 1.8 TOV

 

Josh has talent (you don't get drafted #4 in that good draft if you have no talent). 

Pre-Draft Analysis

Jackson is the best two-way player in the draft, with a combination of elite size, length and athleticism for a wing. He also has an ultra-competitive motor that makes him a handful on both ends of the court. Scouts worry about his jump shot, free throw shooting and an ugly off-the-court incident this year -- but most believe he has that elite combination of tools and physical skills to be a great NBA player someday. -- Chad Ford

 

 His defense is legit good and perfectly fits Taylor's system.   He may never be an elite level scorer but he is a solid that can playmake.    You can never have too many 6'8' athletic 2-way guys that can create their own shot.   Besides he is only 22yrs old it isnt like he is a finished product.     Any Grizz fan that doesn't think he is worthy of investment is being extremely biased. 

 

 

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https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2020/3/9/21169175/josh-jacksons-second-chance-at-a-first-impression-nba-memphis-grizzlies

Though the Grizzlies bench has been excellent overall, Jackson’s biggest contribution arguably has been on defense. Since January 29th, for any lineup of three players that have played 70 or more minutes together for Memphis, three of the five lineup combinations with the best Defensive Rating include Jackson. Due to the effective defense, four of the five lineup combinations with the best Net Rating for the Grizzlies include Jackson. Overall, the Grizzlies have the third best defensive rating in the NBA during this stretch. Simply put, over the past six weeks, it logically can be argued the the Grizzlies play some of their best basketball as a whole when Jackson is on the court.

Jackson’s ability to elevate the overall effectiveness of his team’s defense when he plays should not come as a surprise. Last year, for any three man lineup that played 70 or more minutes together, Jackson was part of four of the eight lineup combinations with the best defensive rating for the Phoenix Suns. A big reason why the Suns drafted Jackson with the fourth overall pick in the 2017 NBA draft was due to his ability as a two-way player. Though Jackson is still a true work in progress on offense, his length and athletic ability make him a true asset on defense.

In fact, despite his struggles off the court, Jackson’s elite pedigree on the court has shined through at times in his career. For instance, Jackson is one of only nine players since the 2017-2018 season who have played at least 4,000 minutes and produced an assist percentage of 10% or better, a steal percentage of 1.9% or better, and a block percentage of 1.9% or better. While this list includes a wide range of players in terms of overall value, they each have the potential to contribute on both ends of the court when they play.

 

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Top 3 on Grizz., we watching the same games?  With JJJ and BC absence, Josh has been a productive back-fill, lets see how he fits in when both of these guys return and he loses minutes..his shooting is barely average at best, even from free throw.  6'8'' guy 20 minutes, 3 rebounds?  I like the way he plays D,  but let me ask...would we prefer OG Anunoby who might be Raptors 5 or 6th most valuable or Josh who some say is our 3rd most valuable.  Our bar needs to be much higher than settling for this.

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14 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

Top 3 on Grizz., we watching the same games?  With JJJ and BC absence, Josh has been a productive back-fill, lets see how he fits in when both of these guys return and he loses minutes..his shooting is barely average at best, even from free throw.  6'8'' guy 20 minutes, 3 rebounds?  I like the way he plays D,  but let me ask...would we prefer OG Anunoby who might be Raptors 5 or 6th most valuable or Josh who some say is our 3rd most valuable.  Our bar needs to be much higher than settling for this.

Neither JJJ nor Clarke coming back will effect Josh's minutes. Winslow for sure, but at this juncture I'd play Josh over Kyle for sure if Winslow takes the starting spot

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Just now, Lugan Village said:

yeah, depends on how Jenkins manages who is on floor and in what situations....JJJ and BC between the two of them play 50-55 minutes, where do they come from?

I think Kyle will slide to backup 4 till BC comes back.   Justise should be moved to starting lineup immediately and put DeAnthony back on bench.   Konchar drops outta rotation for now  

Ja/Tyus

Dillon/DM

Justise/Josh

Jaren/Kyle

Jonas/Dieng

Tolliver sticks around till BC is back. 

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6 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I think Kyle will slide to backup 4 till BC comes back.   Justise should be moved to starting lineup immediately and put DeAnthony back on bench.   Konchar drops outta rotation for now  

Ja/Tyus

Dillon/DM

Justise/Josh

Jaren/Kyle

Jonas/Dieng

Tolliver sticks around till BC is back. 

This!

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the games which I saw him play in person, I just can't recall anything memorable from Miami...maybe too much Dwayne focused...BUT I agree that were invested in him, i like his upside, let's see how he plays out after getting a good sample of games, but he needs to play and see how he mixes in with starting 5.

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Interesting theory. Will see if it comes to fruition. 

Not to downplay him but I have noticed all of his scoring outbursts that I remember occured when the game was not competitive. I seriously remember 4 games that were close in the 1st and he did nothing and he went on a huge outburst in the 2nd half when the game was basically a blowout. I also remember a few Suns fans, during my research, calling him the trash time King. 

Plays good defense and has impressive hustle, but Im still very iffy on his offense unless he becomes a really good shooter, which will take a lot of work cause shooting is clearly not a natural thing for him.  I dont want to see him as a playmaker because he doesnt seem like he has a plan when he has the ball in his hands. He just kinda does what comes to mind at the moment.  No analyzing the court, just kinda barrels his way through traffic or throws the ball up to the rim for lobs. Like lsugrizzfan said sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt.  Playmakers with no plan get ate up by good defense. Not saying he cant ever be useful, just saying Im not feeling his playmaking style. To helter skelter for me. 

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Just now, Lugan Village said:

the games which I saw him play in person, I just can't recall anything memorable from Miami...maybe too much Dwayne focused...BUT I agree that were invested in him, i like his upside, let's see how he plays out after getting a good sample of games, but he needs to play and see how he mixes in with starting 5.

He murdered us in the first game of the season.    

defensively and playmaking-wise he was outstanding.   Great cog for starting unit and immediately becomes best perimeter defender. 

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3 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Interesting theory. Will see if it comes to fruition. 

Not to downplay him but I have noticed all of his scoring outbursts that I remember occured when the game was not competitive. I seriously remember 4 games that were close in the 1st and he did nothing and he went on a huge outburst in the 2nd half when the game was basically a blowout. I also remember a few Suns fans, during my research, calling him the trash time King. 

Plays good defense and has impressive hustle, but Im still very iffy on his offense unless he becomes a really good shooter, which will take a lot of work cause shooting is clearly not a natural thing for him.  I dont want to see him as a playmaker because he doesnt seem like he has a plan when he has the ball in his hands. He just kinda does what comes to mind at the moment.  No analyzing the court, just kinda barrels his way through traffic or throws the ball up to the rim for lobs. Like lsugrizzfan said sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt.  Playmakers with no plan get ate up by good defense. Not saying he cant ever be useful, just saying Im not feeling his playmaking style. To helter skelter for me. 

Interesting  but i have watched the games and his impact isn't in garbage time.   He plays significant minutes in first halves.   The bench has been our strength during these last 15 games or so and Tyler and Josh are a big reasons why.    His defense is legit so i am willing to deal with Growing pains as he figures his offensive fit out.    

He can run PnRoll and actually LOOKS to make the pass.  Whether or not it connects can be improved upon but ability to make and willingness is a good thing.    He also has enough burst, handles and explosiveness to beat guys off dribble to get to the rim.    

My argument for Josh isnt about making him a primary guy in anyway outside of defender.    He already shows ability  to become a solid secondary ballhandler/playmaker.   He has ability to be a complimentary scorer too.   

 I ultimately project both him and Melton to be TA's with better offense and upside.   That means "high-end role player" is what i think their ceilings are (Same as BC).     I don't think he should be a starter unless he improves his offense but as a 7th man i think he can be really good. 

He is still young so it isn't like he can't improve.  And if he does improve at all his ceiling is higher than anybody not named Ja and Jaren on our current roster.  

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7 minutes ago, Grizz&Grind said:

I don't think they are getting rid of Josh.

I'm ready to see a healthy rotation of Jonas, Jaren, Clarke, Dillon, Winslow, Josh, Melton and Ja.

I didn't think so either, but if and when BC, JJJ, and JW return, somebody's minutes are going to have to get cut significantly.

If they don't think Josh will be here next year, and at this moment, I don't think he will be because it doesn't even need the full MLE to sign him elsewhere, it makes sense to give the minutes to someone else.

 

I hope he keeps playing well, but the better he plays, the less likely he is to be around here next fall.

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He may never be a knockdown 3pt shooter but he can score for sure. Not exactly efficient  but his defense is valuable. He is  currently one of our best defenders and defense is a necessity for our success. 

 

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2 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

I didn't think so either, but if and when BC, JJJ, and JW return, somebody's minutes are going to have to get cut significantly.

If they don't think Josh will be here next year, and at this moment, I don't think he will be because it doesn't even need the full MLE to sign him elsewhere, it makes sense to give the minutes to someone else.

I hope he keeps playing well, but the better he plays, the less likely he is to be around here next fall.

Wow. I just had to go look it up.

The Grizzlies declined his 4th year option.

So basically he's gone, and without any return, unless he wants to sign for less than the market will likely dictate.

Oh well, can't win everything every time. They still got Melton and 2 2nds in the deal, I guess.

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20 minutes ago, Grizz&Grind said:

Wow. I just had to go look it up.

The Grizzlies declined his 4th year option.

So basically he's gone, and without any return, unless he wants to sign for less than the market will likely dictate.

Oh well, can't win everything every time. They still got Melton and 2 2nds in the deal, I guess.

Not necessarily gone.   Highly unlikely any teams will/could offer him more than MLE.   Remember not many teams have capspace which is why DB signed the extension he did rather than test market.  

I think  the deciding factor will be would another team offer him a Starting role.  I doubt half-a-season of solid performance (mostly defensively) will be able to counteract his rep and PHO stint. 

I can see a team offering him a low risk type of deal (max 6-7m) a year.   Which is what we can offer too.    Josh is playing well but his offense is still a Work In Progress and we know teams are more willing to open up the bank for Potential Shooters/Scorers moreso than Defensive specialist. 

Smart move for him may be to sign a 2yr deal with us (Player Option on final year) in order to drive up his market.     I believe there will be more Free Agent money next off-season as teams are gearing up to go after big guns. 

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5 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

If they don't think Josh will be here next year, and at this moment, I don't think he will be because it doesn't even need the full MLE to sign him elsewhere, it makes sense to give the minutes to someone else.

 

His option was 8.9mil, the mle is projected to be 9.8mil. So if the amount we can offer him is limited to the amount of his option we turned down then yes, technically it would not take the full mle for another team to make an offer we would not be able to match, but it would take darn near all of it. In fact, effectively it would take all of it because the only way a team would be able to split the mle between Jackson and another player while paying Jackson more than we could match would be if the other player was an undrafted free agent on a minimum contract. They wouldn't be able to pay the minimum salary for a guy with even 1 year of experience. The difference between what another team could offer Jackson that we couldn't match and the mle is around $900,000. The minimum salary for a player with 1 year experience is around 1.4mil. So , if they were to make him an offer that was more than we would be allowed to match then effectively they might as well be using the entire mle on him since they wouldn't really be able to use the rest of it to sign another player.

I hope nobody offers him the mle and we are able to bring him back on a team friendly deal. Even in a down free agent market, 9.8mil is a lot to pay a player who has a history of off court problems and has only shown glimpses of what he could be, I would not be surprised if the offers don't come and he is a Grizzly again next season.

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It is a imperfect world, full of imperfect people.    Josh has made strides and seems to fit in with the grizzlies team chemistry, and seems to be enjoying himself.    Don't expect perfection out of the person.

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1 minute ago, Joey Crawford said:

It is a imperfect world, full of imperfect people.    Josh has made strides and seems to fit in with the grizzlies team chemistry, and seems to be enjoying himself.    Don't expect perfection out of the person.

 

Speaking of imperfection:

We all want Josh Jackson to play well this season as it helps the Grizzlies win.

We don't want him to play tooooooo well because it means the team won't be able to afford him.

Be imperfectly awesome, Josh, that's all we ask.  Shine bright, but not too bright.

 

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I think someone will offer him something higher than we will. I actually want him to stick around 

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Wouldnt be surprised if they gave him a one year at 8.9 million. If he works, fine. Renegotiate next offseason. If not, he is an expiring that can be moved at the deadline. 

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9 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I wouldn't judge him based on his first 17 games.   He wasn't getting consistent minutes and was finding rhythm with team.    I would judge him based on his last 10 which is when he started getting consistent minutes.    

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612763/players-traditional/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&LastNGames=10

21.4mpg     44FG% /35% 3Pt /  3rb  / 2.1ast /1.1stl /0.8blk/ 1.1 TOV

He is an elite athlete with solid ball-handling/passing and slashing skills and a passable jumpshot.    If ya'll dinging him for erratic play then Melton and Dillon should be dinged even worse.  

Melton 

22.9mpg     36.5FG% /44% 3Pt /  2.9rb  / 2.9ast /1.0 stl /0.4blk/ 1.8 TOV

 

Josh has talent (you don't get drafted #4 in that good draft if you have no talent). 

Pre-Draft Analysis

Jackson is the best two-way player in the draft, with a combination of elite size, length and athleticism for a wing. He also has an ultra-competitive motor that makes him a handful on both ends of the court. Scouts worry about his jump shot, free throw shooting and an ugly off-the-court incident this year -- but most believe he has that elite combination of tools and physical skills to be a great NBA player someday. -- Chad Ford

 

 His defense is legit good and perfectly fits Taylor's system.   He may never be an elite level scorer but he is a solid that can playmake.    You can never have too many 6'8' athletic 2-way guys that can create their own shot.   Besides he is only 22yrs old it isnt like he is a finished product.     Any Grizz fan that doesn't think he is worthy of investment is being extremely biased. 

 

 

i absolutely think he's worthy of investment, i just don't see the point of bringing back both him and melton.

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