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chipc3

Memphis Grizzlies @ Sacramento Kings 2/20/20

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6 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Taylor went 11 deep for zero reason and lots of weird lineups and leaning on starters when it clearly wasn't working.     Kings were forced to play small mostly and were absolutely on fire from 3.   

So it wasn't a good game for traditional Centers like Dieng and Jonas to get a lot of minutes.   

Ja was bad for 3 quarters and Dillon was bad for 4.     Jaren didn't get enough scoring opportunities.    Tyus, DeAnthony Josh and Brandon were the only reason game was close until Ja and Jaren came alive in the 4th.   

 

Agree the rotations were not good tonight. Marko shouldn't have played. Dillon was awful the whole game and when he doesn't have it and keeps forcing it he needs to sit, especially when tyus/melton playing well. Needed to make that adjustment earlier.

 

Too much trying to force feed JV in the post. He was taking too long to make his move and getting swarmed.

 

Finally, this ja not looking to score at all until the 4th quarter thing needs to stop. It's too cute by half. We need him to score consistently throughout the game AND carry us down the stretch. He can't take 5 shots or whatever through the first 3 quarters

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8 minutes ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

Agree the rotations were not good tonight. Marko shouldn't have played. Dillon was awful the whole game and when he doesn't have it and keeps forcing it he needs to sit, especially when tyus/melton playing well. Needed to make that adjustment earlier.

 

Too much trying to force feed JV in the post. He was taking too long to make his move and getting swarmed.

 

Finally, this ja not looking to score at all until the 4th quarter thing needs to stop. It's too cute by half. We need him to score consistently throughout the game AND carry us down the stretch. He can't take 5 shots or whatever through the first 3 quarters

Yeah I dont like Ja not shooting until the 4th but lets not forget he is a very light 20 year old rookie no matter how good he is. He is also driving and not shooting jumpers. I think the plan is to save his body until he builds it up as much as possible. Also let the rest of the offense develop as much as possible and learn to score without him doing all the work. This is probably a collective plan by the organization, as well as his minutes. 

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Just now, Grizzfan7979 said:

Agree the rotations were not good tonight. Marko shouldn't have played. Dillon was awful the whole game and when he doesn't have it and keeps forcing it he needs to sit, especially when tyus/melton playing well. Needed to make that adjustment earlier.

 

Too much trying to force feed JV in the post. He was taking too long to make his move and getting swarmed.

 

Finally, this ja not looking to score at all until the 4th quarter thing needs to stop. It's too cute by half. We need him to score consistently throughout the game AND carry us down the stretch. He can't take 5 shots or whatever through the first 3 quarters

Agree on all points.   I really wonder if the Marko thing is predicated by FO in some way.   Like they refuse to believe they made a bad signing and are trying to force his development.    Marko just isn't NBA ready, period.  It's okay to make a mistake but don't compound it by forcing it.    

The Ja thing is even more important now that SloMo is starting and DIllon is sucking offensively.      This goes to the reason why i don't like SloMo starting.     Kyle is a solid player but he is a niche player.   His playstyle requires others around him to cater to him too much.    In other words because SloMo isn't a shooter/scorer or athletic finisher or athletic in general.   He has to be surrounded by knockdown shooters and a more methodical pace in order to maximize his impact.   However,   he doesn't score enough to justify rearranging everything to make him fit.       On his best day he will give you 9pt, 6ast, 7rbs, 1blk 1stl in 25mpg.     Melton gets that in 15mpg while flying up and down the floor.   Josh could get that same stat line too while playing a much faster pace.    Plus SloMo presence alongside Jonas really shrinks the court which makes it harder for Ja and Jonas to do what they do best.     

 Yes SloMo is a great interior passer and defensive player and the defense has improved with him starting but the offense has absolutely cratered.     Ja DB KA JJJ JV are now 92.6ofrtg!  101.1dfrtg for -8.5 net.    That is horrible.   Its even worse because Taylor plays his starting lineup specific times no matter the results.      
 

Bringing my point back to how it relates to Ja.   Well now that SloMo nonfactor on offense self is starting.   That lineup cannot afford to have 'passive' Ja in it.     If Dillon was atleast scoring better it wouldn't be as neccessary but since he is slumping - Ja passiivity is even more pronounced.     Starting lineup needs everyone to be a threat to score in order for it to work.    SloMo, Slump Dillon and Passing Ja are a bad perimeter fit for now. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Yeah I dont like Ja not shooting until the 4th but lets not forget he is a very light 20 year old rookie no matter how good he is. He is also driving and not shooting jumpers. I think the plan is to save his body until he builds it up as much as possible. Also let the rest of the offense develop as much as possible and learn to score without him doing all the work. This is probably a collective plan by the organization, as well as his minutes. 

 

Nah that's not a collective org thing.  Its purely Ja.   He has said that in several interviews that teammates and staff want him to be more aggressive.   He (paraphrasing) says he likes to get his teammates involved early and survey the opponent during first few quarters;  this allows him to know how to best attack in the 4th.     It's actually a good strategy but only works if you have another dependable perimeter threat alongside you.   Right now we don't so it is becoming problematic. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

 

 

 

I agree I think Ja has to pick his spots a little earlier with Kyle in the starting lineup. I think Kyle is an excellent glue guy similar to Jae but you had to respect Jae jumper. You do not really have to respect Kyle's jumper and it's like the defense knows he wants to pass. With Kyle starting with Ja the first three quarters become passive because our best perimeter threat, which is Ja, is thinking more pass. I believe as the season goes on they will figure it out. 

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4 minutes ago, bterry1990 said:

I agree I think Ja has to pick his spots a little earlier with Kyle in the starting lineup. I think Kyle is an excellent glue guy similar to Jae but you had to respect Jae jumper. You do not really have to respect Kyle's jumper and it's like the defense knows he wants to pass. With Kyle starting with Ja the first three quarters become passive because our best perimeter threat, which is Ja, is thinking more pass. I believe as the season goes on they will figure it out. 

Unfortunately, the solution to the issue is on the bench in a suit.   Because either way it goes SloMo is not the answer at starting SF.  He is best as Tweener off the bench.      Justise will be a much better fit alongside starters because he is a combo of Kyle and Jae.     Otherwise i would start Melton and slide Dillon to the 3.       

It isn't smart to continue starting your worse lineup.   This isn't an indictment on Kyle Dillon or Jonas its just that they aren't a good fit together.  

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31 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

 

Nah that's not a collective org thing.  Its purely Ja.   He has said that in several interviews that teammates and staff want him to be more aggressive.   He (paraphrasing) says he likes to get his teammates involved early and survey the opponent during first few quarters;  this allows him to know how to best attack in the 4th.     It's actually a good strategy but only works if you have another dependable perimeter threat alongside you.   Right now we don't so it is becoming problematic. 

 

 

Ok. I still prefer him to not go all out every game until he builds his body up. Takes a lot of physical training to do what these elite guys do 82 games a year for the entire game.  This is still a development year in the long run. 

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1 minute ago, Dwash said:

Ok. I still prefer him to not go all out every game until he builds his body up. Takes a lot of physical training to do what these elite guys do 82 games a year for the entire game. 

I dont disagree at all with you.    But that's why the ideal lineup is Ja DB Justise Brandon Jaren.    That lineup is quick and offers the spacing needed so Ja can attach rim with least amount of resistance.       SloMo + Jonas makes it more difficult to Ja because he is guaranteed to run into the trees with them on floor together.   

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1 hour ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

Dillon was awful the whole game and when he doesn't have it and keeps forcing it he needs to sit,

right . I may be in the minority here but truth be told - I kinda hate when he hits his first two or so shots... cause its then that I realize -> Uh-ohhh ...make or miss (mostly miss) he's about to shoot the bumps off the ball from that point on.

1 hour ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

Too much trying to force feed JV in the post. He was taking too long to make his move and getting swarmed.

 

This is definitely noticeable... I have tried to understand why we do that in the very beginning of games...I know Shaq says that as a big - if they dont get the ball early and try to get going it is hard to get a rhythm.

With JV - catch it high and keep it high. IF he needs to make more than 2 dribbles... bad things tend to happen

1 hour ago, Grizzfan7979 said:

Finally, this ja not looking to score at all until the 4th quarter thing needs to stop. It's too cute by half. We need him to score consistently throughout the game AND carry us down the stretch. He can't take 5 shots or whatever through the first 3 quarters

scoot over ... I'm gonna sit right here next to you.

I honestly like our chances moving forward though...  these are all things that coach can address - now.

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As for the Ja in the 4th thing...

surely he could pick a spot in each quarter with 4 or 5 shots per.

i just dont see the huge benefit of saving it til the fourth.

his driving and ability to draw fouls could put their guys in foul trouble early... that could change the game's outlook

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8 minutes ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

This is definitely noticeable... I have tried to understand why we do that in the very beginning of games...I know Shaq says that as a big - if they dont get the ball early and try to get going it is hard to get a rhythm.

With JV - catch it high and keep it high. IF he needs to make more than 2 dribbles... bad things tend to happen

I don't disagree with the strategy of going to Jonas or Jaren early.   Getting them established makes the game easier for everyone else.  Plus Jonas isn't very playable if he is invisible on offense due to his defensive limitations.    Gotta reward the Big guy for trying to run up and down the floor.   Plus i'd rather do that then watch The Dillon Show.      Dillon single-handily froze them all out early and Jonas never got a rhythm after that.     

However, i do agree that i cringe every time he dribbles.   

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My concerns/observations from the game last night.

The fact that we had 20 turnovers and missed shots all night and still only lost by 4 points blows my mind. TJ better not put Marko back into a game unless we are up by 20 at the end of games or ima flip! lol keep the rotations the same as they have been man.

I do think DB's contract was given at that rate because the FO has thoughts or intentions of moving him to the 6th man next year. Who knows, we will see, but its more and more apparent, especially at the end of games that D Melt is a much better fit next to Ja. (Not saying much because D Melt is just a better fit with anybody out there. Love his motor. And those 10/10 FT were clutch.) 

When is TJ gonna get the stones to sit DB and not bring him back in like he would do Jaren and JV at the beginning of the season if they weren't performing? Too many time this season he has brought him back in to disrupt the energy that we were playing with. DB has had great games this year, but seldom has his good games had him be the closer as far as scoring goes. And to be quite honest, I don't think that will ever be him and I'm fine with that if we have Ja, Justise, and Jaren.

The double team on the inbounds thing? Personally have never seen it, and i'm not against it, aslong as we are playing a team that has been shooting lights out all night. Leaving an extra guy open to shoot free throws when they've been splashing from deep all night just isn't a good idea in my opinion. Their confidence was sky high last night and I would have they just played straight up defense on the inbound at that point.

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30 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I don't disagree with the strategy of going to Jonas or Jaren early.   Getting them established makes the game easier for everyone else.  Plus Jonas isn't very playable if he is invisible on offense due to his defensive limitations.    Gotta reward the Big guy for trying to run up and down the floor.   Plus i'd rather do that then watch The Dillon Show.      Dillon single-handily froze them all out early and Jonas never got a rhythm after that.     

However, i do agree that i cringe every time he dribbles.   

Lord.... *double tap*

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I was at the game last night. It was my first time getting to see the young guys play. Last time I got to go to a game (I moved to the west coast) was when we played GS in the playoffs years ago. I haven't watched my recording of the game yet, but seeing the game in person it seemed that Ja was tired to start the game. Dillon came out great and played great defense the entire game, despite taking some *very* Dillon shots at very unfortunate moments. There seemed to be a few instances when Dieng was out of place on D and I expect that to change when they have more time together. The fact that JV wasn't in the game much in the 2nd half was extremely noticeable (did he get hurt or just a rotation/matchup thing - I saw him fall on one of the harry giles plays).

Speaking of JV, he looked awesome warming up. He and Justise were the only two out there maybe an hour or so before the game. Justise hit basically every shot he took and I can't wait to see him on the court.

The thing I noticed the most was Melton, as I'm sure everyone did. The dude looks *awesome* -  I think he is very likely to be the diamond in the rough' or 'lightning in a bottle' player that Chris Wallace always so desperately wanted. The fact that our FO managed to trade Carter for he and Jackson/picks is just incredible to me. He's going to be a great piece for us moving forward and we must prioritize signing him in the off season.

It was disappointing to lose but you couldn't help but notice how much potential the team has. If we learn to not let teams score 39pts in a quarter - (harrison barnes and fox are amazing to watch live - barnes is extremely physical and much bigger than I realized ) we're going to be a great team for years.

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4 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Unfortunately, the solution to the issue is on the bench in a suit.   Because either way it goes SloMo is not the answer at starting SF.  He is best as Tweener off the bench.      Justise will be a much better fit alongside starters because he is a combo of Kyle and Jae.     Otherwise i would start Melton and slide Dillon to the 3.       

It isn't smart to continue starting your worse lineup.   This isn't an indictment on Kyle Dillon or Jonas its just that they aren't a good fit together.  

this lineup was 8-1 before last night...but the game appeared to get away from Jenkins from what i've read in the posts.  Dillon is shooting around 37% last 10 games....go away from him or sit him, he takes shots that are not there and he forces them.  I get it  that we dont yet have the depth to put in someone else, but maybe get Melton more minutes?  JV is shooting 57% last 10 games and almost 60% on the road...and he only took 6 shots last night...feed him the ball if were cold outside. I like the numbers Jackson put up, i didnt see the game last night so not sure if they were quality or garbage, but maybe he has earned more mintues?

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4 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I dont disagree at all with you.    But that's why the ideal lineup is Ja DB Justise Brandon Jaren.    That lineup is quick and offers the spacing needed so Ja can attach rim with least amount of resistance.       SloMo + Jonas makes it more difficult to Ja because he is guaranteed to run into the trees with them on floor together.   

Man from what i have seen most of the year, JV clears a lane for Ja...makes it easier for Ja not difficult...

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56 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

Man from what i have seen most of the year, JV clears a lane for Ja...makes it easier for Ja not difficult...

Ja can play with JV but the other 3 guys need to be threats from 3.    Its only when Kyle (who isn't a threat) is with Ja+JV that the offense bogs down.   Because all 3 of them are better scorers in the paint.    I wasn't singling out Jonas or Kyle.     It's the combo of the two.   My solution is to move Kyle from Starting lineup not Jonas. 

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2 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Ja can play with JV but the other 3 guys need to be threats from 3.    Its only when Kyle (who isn't a threat) is with Ja+JV that the offense bogs down.   Because all 3 of them are better scorers in the paint.    I wasn't singling out Jonas or Kyle.     It's the combo of the two.   My solution is to move Kyle from Starting lineup not Jonas. 

Once Justise has returned to play. You aren't suggesting benching Kyle now are you? 

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Just now, chipc3 said:

Once Justise has returned to play. You aren't suggesting benching Kyle now are you? 

That should be the end goal.   It prob shouldn't happen immediately but Ja+Dillon+Justise+Jaren+ Jonas should be Starting 5 going into next season.  

Justise has higher upside in that spot than Kyle.  Do you disagree?

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Just now, GrizzTigerFan said:

That should be the end goal.   It prob shouldn't happen immediately but Ja+Dillon+Justise+Jaren+ Jonas should be Starting 5 going into next season.  

Justise has higher upside in that spot than Kyle.  Do you disagree?

Oh no. I do agree. This isn't good at all.

 Image result for oh no gif

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6 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Agree on all points.   I really wonder if the Marko thing is predicated by FO in some way.   Like they refuse to believe they made a bad signing and are trying to force his development.    Marko just isn't NBA ready, period.  It's okay to make a mistake but don't compound it by forcing it.    

The Ja thing is even more important now that SloMo is starting and DIllon is sucking offensively.      This goes to the reason why i don't like SloMo starting.     Kyle is a solid player but he is a niche player.   His playstyle requires others around him to cater to him too much.    In other words because SloMo isn't a shooter/scorer or athletic finisher or athletic in general.   He has to be surrounded by knockdown shooters and a more methodical pace in order to maximize his impact.   However,   he doesn't score enough to justify rearranging everything to make him fit.       On his best day he will give you 9pt, 6ast, 7rbs, 1blk 1stl in 25mpg.     Melton gets that in 15mpg while flying up and down the floor.   Josh could get that same stat line too while playing a much faster pace.    Plus SloMo presence alongside Jonas really shrinks the court which makes it harder for Ja and Jonas to do what they do best.     

 Yes SloMo is a great interior passer and defensive player and the defense has improved with him starting but the offense has absolutely cratered.     Ja DB KA JJJ JV are now 92.6ofrtg!  101.1dfrtg for -8.5 net.    That is horrible.   Its even worse because Taylor plays his starting lineup specific times no matter the results.      
 

Bringing my point back to how it relates to Ja.   Well now that SloMo nonfactor on offense self is starting.   That lineup cannot afford to have 'passive' Ja in it.     If Dillon was atleast scoring better it wouldn't be as neccessary but since he is slumping - Ja passiivity is even more pronounced.     Starting lineup needs everyone to be a threat to score in order for it to work.    SloMo, Slump Dillon and Passing Ja are a bad perimeter fit for now. 

 

 

What would you go with?  

Assuming you replace Slo Mo, do you go with Melton, Josh or Clarke? Or... Yuta?

Not sure what I would do.  I might toss a coin between Melton, Josh and Clarke.  Coins only have two sides? Oh well!

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12 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Dang-it!!  another angel just loss its wings?!?!

Image result for its a wonderful life gif

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1 minute ago, ALT GRIND said:

What would you go with?  

Assuming you replace Slo Mo, do you go with Melton, Josh or Clarke? Or... Yuta?

Not sure what I would do.  I might toss a coin between Melton, Josh and Clarke.  Coins only have two sides? Oh well!

I would go with Melton and slide Dillon to the 3.    Let DeAnthony guard the toughest Point Guard and hide Ja on defense.    I like Josh with the faster unit off the bench (Tyus, Brandon).   He seems to be much better in a transition type offense.   

Yuta ....  no way you start a Two-way player on a NBA team unless forced by injury.     Clarke is the backup PF no reason to play him at SF.     

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8 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I would go with Melton and slide Dillon to the 3.    Let DeAnthony guard the toughest Point Guard and hide Ja on defense.    I like Josh with the faster unit off the bench (Tyus, Brandon).   He seems to be much better in a transition type offense.   

Yuta ....  no way you start a Two-way player on a NBA team unless forced by injury.     Clarke is the backup PF no reason to play him at SF.     

Didn't Houston start a 2 way player last season? Danuel House I believe was a two way player who started 12 consecutive games for the Rockets where they went 9-3 last season. 

Not saying the Grizzlies should be starting Yuta but it can happen. 

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