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Ole Dirty Klondike

Grade the Trades & Provide Analysis

Grade the Trade  

54 members have voted

  1. 1. What Grade Would you Give the Grizz for the Miami Trade (Iggy, Crowder, Hill for Winslow, Waiters, Johnson) ?

    • A
      10
    • B
      29
    • C
      12
    • D
      1
    • F
      0
    • I
      2
  2. 2. What Grade Would you Give the Grizz for the Houston Trade (Caboclo for Jordan Bell)

    • A
      16
    • B
      26
    • C
      9
    • D
      2
    • F
      0
    • I
      1
  3. 3. What Grade Would you Give the Grizz for the Minnesota Trade (Johnson for Gorgui Dieng)?

    • A
      36
    • B
      16
    • C
      1
    • D
      0
    • F
      0
    • I
      0


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Updated (hopefully no more Woj bombs)

Let's grade the trades and explain your answer. Obviously, with any trade, you have to give it time to materialize on the court but what's your initial reaction? 

MIA Trade: Iggy, Crowder, Hill for Winslow, Waiters, Johnson

For me, I'm fine with the Iggy for Winslow part of the MIA deal but totally confused by the rest of it and no draft picks.(no longer confused as they flipped Johnson for Dieng) I get it that the Grizz don't see any FA this summer that they would pursue but are Waiters and Johnson they best you could do? I just don't understand why no draft picks were included and i'm not even big on draft pick. For that reason, I give it a C.

HOU trade: Bruno for Bell

I would give the Bruno for Bell trade a B. He may fit better for what we need but in the large scheme of things, just swapping bench players. 

Minny trade: Flip Johnson for Dieng

I actually LOVE this trade. Dieng is a better fit and will give us more as a backup C than what Johnson would have as a backup swingman. I give it an A

it's a little tricky cause the first trade yielded another trade bt overall a good day. 

 

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2 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Poll already obsolete. Wait until the deadline has come and gone, man... 😬

Yeah,that was crazy. I'll close this down and do a new one around 2:30 to let everything trickle in....geez

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I gave an incomplete on the first trade. IF Winslow gets healthy and IF Waiters can pull his head out of his rear then it was a super A trade for Memphis. Until we know what they can provide it is an incomplete. 

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C C B.

The Heat trade was a fair deal.  I think Heat won the trade in short term and Grizzlies may have won huge in long term if Winslow gets healthy and meshes well ... really optimistic on the potential fit.  Waiters is a wild card.

The Houston trade is also a fair deal, but a bit of a head-scratcher to me.  Bruno is athletic and the better shooter of the two, but the problem is his role/fit ... he is not going to get on the floor much backing up Jaren and Clarke.  I would not be surprised at all if Bruno (finally) fully blossoms in Houston.  Bell has a lot of physical tools, but offensively he's not going to scare anyone until he can catch-and-shoot ... hopefully he will be a better fit.

The Minnesota trade looked good for the Grizzlies, mainly because even if healthy, Johnson would be stuck on bench behind Winslow, SloMo, Jaren, and Clarke too.  Dieng gives us a good big that can backup Jonas ... so he just seems like a better fit.

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People seem to forget that we got Iggy and a 1st for nothing from the Warriors. To give up on Crowder/Hill (I don't consider this insignificant for what its worth, and I'm cautious about this aspect of it) and to still maintain cap flexibility two years from now is a huge win. This is regardless of whether Winslow ends up working out. We get a flier on a very good pick and improve (on paper) at center and SG/Small forward. I voted BBA.

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The day has to be seen as which would you choose going forward:

Iggy, Hill, Jae, Bruno

or

Winslow, Bell, Waiters, Dieng

 

If Waiters is waived: This year becomes Jae, Hill and Bruno for Winslow, Bell, and Dieng.

I think Dieng/Bell are an important pickup for depth reasons, but will only play about as much as Hill did at a different position.  The Grizzlies have really been lucky on injuries so far, so this should help. 

Bell for Bruno is a whatever deal.   He's gone at the end of the season, barring some rebirth of his career.

Winslow's health is the key to this trade.  He's the best player in the deal and is worth Hill + Crowder going forward.

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Can't say better than Grizzled Vet. If Winslow is healthy then we make a huge trade . Great job anyway by the FO.  We are now in position to fight for PO team, Next season add one more good piece and future will be bright.

 

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C A A

(C) I think the FO just did Jae and Solo a favor and traded them to a contender. Just so happens it was part of Iggy deal. If Winslow comes around as expected. It’s an A
(A) Flipping JJ for Dieng was big.and needed

(A) Bruno for Bell was nice too. Bell is a nice young piece for small ball 5. Keeps BC free from that.

Good job FO
 

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I'm not sure if Winslow will even play this season and I don't see Dieng as being a leader. I think he's a guy on the bench who can contribute off of the bench and that's about it but I could be wrong.   At this point, I'm thinking we would be lucky to go .500 for the rest of the season. I just feel we will take a step back on the court, maybe not, who knows. I think making the playoffs would have boosted season ticket sales as well.

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7 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Updated (hopefully no more Woj bombs)

Let's grade the trades and explain your answer. Obviously, with any trade, you have to give it time to materialize on the court but what's your initial reaction? 

 

And I will give an "A" for starting and creating the poll.

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2 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

I'm not sure if Winslow will even play this season and I don't see Dieng as being a leader. I think he's a guy on the bench who can contribute off of the bench and that's about it but I could be wrong.   At this point, I'm thinking we would be lucky to go .500 for the rest of the season. I just feel we will take a step back on the court, maybe not, who knows. I think making the playoffs would have boosted season ticket sales as well.

How will we be taking a step back?  Advanced numbers and eyetest show that Kyle is better option as starter.     All we lose are 2 replacement level vets and a dude that never played.   All of the talented players we have will now get more minutes.     

Stepback we take will purely be based on more difficult schedule.   Dieng is a solid player and Bell can contribute.  Not sure why you think we could be worse. 

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13 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

How will we be taking a step back?  Advanced numbers and eyetest show that Kyle is better option as starter.     All we lose are 2 replacement level vets and a dude that never played.   All of the talented players we have will now get more minutes.     

Stepback we take will purely be based on more difficult schedule.   Dieng is a solid player and Bell can contribute.  Not sure why you think we could be worse. 

You answered your own question

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Schedule was the same before or after trade. What  i see is that we trade 2 player ( iggy and Bruno) who contribute for nothing ( or almost) this year and 2 vets player who were never part of the future of the Grizz.

What we get,? on paper it looks good, let's see what  they bring before jump into conlcusion. But i truyl believe FO know what they do . We got several example since they arrive.

And i also truly believe that our young people are able to go to PO. IT will be tough for sure but if they play the same way they play against Dallas, we wil be tough to beat too. Go Grizz !!

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1 hour ago, FrenchGrizzlies said:

Schedule was the same before or after trade. What  i see is that we trade 2 player ( iggy and Bruno) who contribute for nothing ( or almost) this year and 2 vets player who were never part of the future of the Grizz.

What we get,? on paper it looks good, let's see what  they bring before jump into conlcusion. But i truyl believe FO know what they do . We got several example since they arrive.

And i also truly believe that our young people are able to go to PO. IT will be tough for sure but if they play the same way they play against Dallas, we wil be tough to beat too. Go Grizz !!

Yes, we still had the toughest remaining schedule before the trade but that's the point, we were probably going to dip with or without these players. Winslow is currently hurt, not sure when he will play. Dieng is a nice backup C but our schedule for the past month and a half has been relatively weak. Luckily, we beat teams that were not good. Now we are about to play a lot of good teams. I believe teh winning % of our remaining schedule was like 55%. i just feel like we would come back to earth

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I said B B A.

B on the first simply because we dumped the jackass and got a player who acts like he wants to be here.

B on the second because i don't ever remember seeing Bell play, but his per 36 numbers look like he can rebound and block shots, and Bruno wasn't getting any minutes before, and is injured now.

A on the last because we were able to flip a guy we didn't really need for a quality backup (perhaps one of the better backups in the league at that position) who has shown he can hit perimeter shots.  I've thought for a while that Dieng was a solid player, though his contract is a bit high.

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From ESPN Insider:

Quote

Memphis Grizzlies: D

mem.png?w=80&h=80&transparent=true

Given how well the Grizzlies' new front office managed last summer, including getting a lightly protected first-round pick from the Warriors to take on Iguodala's salary, I'm perplexed at their logic for making this move. It seems to both hurt Memphis' pursuit of the eighth seed this season and cost the Grizzlies dearly in terms of flexibility this summer, all without equivalent upside.

Let's start with the short term. As mentioned, both Crowder and Hill were playing key roles, while Winslow has played just one game since Christmas Day due to lower back issues. Josh Jackson, recently recalled from the G League, can help fill some of those minutes, and Kyle Anderson is capable of stepping into a larger role. Still, if Grizzlies coach Taylor Jenkins thought those were better options than Crowder and Hill, they would already have been playing.

 

I also don't love Winslow's fit in Memphis. His best NBA season, 2018-19, came as a starting point guard in Miami. That role obviously isn't available for the Grizzlies, not with Ja Morant as the favorite for Rookie of the Year. Memphis also gave Tyus Jones a three-year, $26.5 million deal last summer to serve as Morant's veteran backup and plays him alongside another combo guard in defensive ace De'Anthony Melton.

Between starters Jaren Jackson Jr. and Jonas Valanciunas and rookie backup Brandon Clarke, the Grizzlies' frontcourt is well stocked too, which means Winslow may end up getting most of his minutes as a small forward. Jackson's ability to stretch the court as a power forward will help, but Winslow is not the outside threat that Crowder was despite being a more accurate 3-point shooter (34% career, including 38% and 37.5% the past two seasons). That's come on limited volume (last season's 4.7 attempts per 36 minutes were a career high) and teams are mostly content to help off Winslow.

It's also concerning that even when he shot so well from 3, Winslow was still an inefficient scorer overall (last season's 51.3 true shooting percentage was a career high; league average is 56.1%) because despite his size, he's a poor finisher. Crowder has nearly been as efficient during his worst shooting campaign since his rookie year.

Still, Memphis should benefit at the defensive end of the court. Miami has defended better with Winslow on the court in each of his five NBA seasons, per Cleaning the Glass, and the wing duo of Winslow and Dillon Brooks -- who agreed to a three-year, $35 million extension on Wednesday night, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski -- will give the Grizzlies ideal size and strength to defend opposing perimeter players.

The question is whether that benefit is worth taking on nearly $30 million in salary for 2020-21. Counting Brooks' extension, Memphis had been looking at about $43 million in cap space this summer. That's all gone now, as the Grizzlies will likely be better off staying over the cap and using their non-taxpayer midlevel exception. This year's crop of free agents is weak, but Memphis could have used that space to take on bad contracts for draft picks -- you know, sort of like what happened with Iguodala.

If this was the price to get Winslow, I would have much rather tried to trade Iguodala for whatever draft compensation was available with expiring contracts and held on to Crowder and Hill for a playoff push.

The Johnson-Dieng swap is interesting to the extent that it implies the Grizzlies want to play Jackson and Clarke exclusively as power forwards. That may not change much offensively, since Dieng is capable of stretching the floor as a 5, but it will put more pressure on Jackson and Clarke to defend smaller players full-time.

 

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I disagree on large part of it.  Based on what they say, Crowder and Hill seems to have big value on our team. I don;t believe this. They were nice guys, contribute a bit but are far from important pieces to go into PO. Winslow is a bet. Fit he will be a great guy in the rotation, not fit then we have a guy pay well for not playing ( Same as Iggy tough). If we consider also that the guy seems to be happy to come  and play with us, i am quite optimistic about the result.

PO or not is not important this year. We prepare the future and FO make the right choice. Yes we do loose cap space but this season FA did not look good and the only great player avalaible wil target top team, so on my opinion it's a risk we can take.

We have a very tough schedule but other will have to make run too. Let's see. 

 

 

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I think Winslow will look alot better in a our system which is faster and with alot of pace.Miami is a defensive half court team.

Our 3 point shooting got worst with JJ and JW replacing Jae and Hill but I'm confident that with a few weeks in our system they will find their spots with more chemistry.

 

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1 hour ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

From ESPN Insider:

 

ESPN is grading on warped scales. They push the narrative that if you have to pursue either cap space or picks to improve a roster when that’s not true. Miami transitioned from one era to the next by never hitting bottom and making smart moves that fit their market and culture. 
 

I think this deadline was our FO’s continued push to establish their version of GNG culture through their personal moves. 
 

Iggy for Winslow I give a Bon face value. It’s a risk worth taking but it is a risk. If Justice can be consistently healthy it’s a homerun, if not we traded one dude who won’t play for another who won’t play, so no harm no foul. But it can easily turn into an A trade with health. 
 

Jae & Solo for Dieng and the contract of Waiters I give a C. I don’t get Grizz fans infatuation with backup Centers, but I don’t expect him to get a whole lot of run. We traded an arguable starter, 2 expiring contracts and the leaders of our locker room for a situational big and a bad contract. I’m not sure that’s better than throwing a boatload of cash at Joe Harris or throwing that cash at a guy like Davis Bertans who would be much more valuable as a floor spacer than Dieng. 
 

Caboclo for Bell I give a B. I don’t know why people are sleeping on Jordan Bell but a year or two ago he was the starting C for a championship team. He didn’t get a lot of run behind KAT but for an up tempo team that provides the type of spacing that the Grizzlies do he could thrive. At the very least he’s a clear upgrade over Bruno, and a better fit for what we want to do than Mr. Coboclo

 

Overall I like what the front office did, mostly because they clearly have a vision and are making clear strides towards their end goal. They understand that you can’t build here through Free Agency, so they use the trade market as their Free Agency. The future looks bright for the Grizzlies. 

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