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Why the trade with Miami is a bad trade.

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17 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

This was the y'all I'm referring to 

It wasn't aimed at you.   Just general statement about attitude towards him. 

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We won the trade got the best player when he is healthy. Also got a true backup center who can spread the floor. 
 

also Justice is better than Joe Harris. Justice floor Kyle and ceiling is Iggy/Butler. Joe is a taller JJ Reddick

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1 hour ago, toocoolkellz said:

This was the y'all I'm referring to 

He's KBMing it, just like Mr. Moses.  Puts everyone into neat little groups, whether they belong together or not. ;)

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1 hour ago, QMemphis said:

We won the trade got the best player when he is healthy. Also got a true backup center who can spread the floor. 
 

also Justice is better than Joe Harris. Justice floor Kyle and ceiling is Iggy/Butler. Joe is a taller JJ Reddick

Winslow has only played in 64% of games that he could have played in. He's started in only about 43% of the games he has played. He is currently out with another injury and has a PER of 8. If you have a PER in the single digits, you're generally trash. I'm not going to dog him out because it may be situational or may be related to his injury but that's not good. He's shooting 22% from 3 and is a below avg 3 pt shooter in his career. He is shooting below 40% from the field and for his career is right around 40% from the field. None of these numbers are good. He has also NEVER shot over 70% from the free throw line. That's never good.

With all of that being said, I hope coming to a new team and having a fresh start will revitalize and rejuvenate him. I don't project him as the starter that we need. I think he's a good relentless, hard nosed determined player who can bring some grittiness when healthy, but he's only been healthy 64% of his career. 

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1 minute ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Winslow has only played in 64% of games that he could have played in. He's started in only about 43% of the games he has played. He is currently out with another injury and has a PER of 8. If you have a PER in the single digits, you're generally trash. I'm not going to dog him out because it may be situational or may be related to his injury but that's not good. He's shooting 22% from 3 and is a below avg 3 pt shooter in his career. He is shooting below 40% from the field and for his career is right around 40% from the field. None of these numbers are good. He has also NEVER shot over 70% from the free throw line. That's never good.

With all of that being said, I hope coming to a new team and having a fresh start will revitalize and rejuvenate him. I don't project him as the starter that we need. I think he's a good relentless, hard nosed determined player who can bring some grittiness when healthy, but he's only been healthy 64% of his career. 

I believe he underachieved this year due to role. He was trying to be a point guard and that experiment didn’t work out well for him or the Heat. He is a good two way player with good handles, solid playmaker and good finisher. His shot will get where it needs be once he becomes comfortable playing off ball again. 

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8 minutes ago, QMemphis said:

I believe he underachieved this year due to role. He was trying to be a point guard and that experiment didn’t work out well for him or the Heat. He is a good two way player with good handles, solid playmaker and good finisher. His shot will get where it needs be once he becomes comfortable playing off ball again. 

We'll see how it turns out. As I said, hopefully a change of scenery will revitalize him. I'm not sure what role they want him to play. We also have no clue on what's going on with this bone bruise injury. 

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I was extremely skeptical of this FO at first.  I thought we threw away millions with the Iggy acquisition, and it could have ended out that way, but I stand corrected.  The FO gambled and they came out on top.  

We basically got a very talented player in Winslow  (when healthy) and a 2024 first-round pick in exchange for a trade exception.  Dieng is a bruiser and will provide much needed depth at center.

The new FO has done a phenomenal job.  Our team is now fun to watch, but moreover, they are now very competitive against the top teams in the league.  

Plus Jenkins is turning out to be a great coach.  We're playing high-energy on both ends of the floor and he really knows who to put on the floor.  The players in the rotation are exactly the ones who should be there.  The substitution pattern is darn near flawless.

 

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You guys remember our first game of the season where Winslow kill us??That's the basically what we are getting and I think that's perfect for us.

Now I understand the health issue and that"s a valid concern.

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Just now, costarica2 said:

You guys remember our first game of the season where Winslow kill us??That's the basically what we are getting and I think that's perfect for us.

Now I understand the health issue and that"s a valid concern.

I hope he's all that some of you think he is, but using an opening day game example against a very young, entirely brand new team is probably not a good example of the norm.

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26 minutes ago, costarica2 said:

You guys remember our first game of the season where Winslow kill us??That's the basically what we are getting and I think that's perfect for us.

Now I understand the health issue and that"s a valid concern.

Agree if he is half of that player consistently we are better easily 

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45 minutes ago, Ursine Mammal said:

Looking at different sites for trade grades, the consensus is that the Grizzlies get an A for their deadline deals.

Where are you looking. Only one I’ve seen is ESPN, which is the one I trust the least. 

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It's not like we had much of a choice in where and what we could do because possum face sabotaged deals. We made the best of a bad situation and from here on out I guarantee the Grizzlies make moves more strategically. It was a learning experience and the did the best we could with what we had

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4 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

I hope he's all that some of you think he is, but using an opening day game example against a very young, entirely brand new team is probably not a good example of the norm.

Would you prefer we keep Iggy?

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6 hours ago, etngrizz said:

I was extremely skeptical of this FO at first.  I thought we threw away millions with the Iggy acquisition, and it could have ended out that way, but I stand corrected.  The FO gambled and they came out on top.  

We basically got a very talented player in Winslow  (when healthy) and a 2024 first-round pick in exchange for a trade exception.  Dieng is a bruiser and will provide much needed depth at center.

The new FO has done a phenomenal job.  Our team is now fun to watch, but moreover, they are now very competitive against the top teams in the league.  

Plus Jenkins is turning out to be a great coach.  We're playing high-energy on both ends of the floor and he really knows who to put on the floor.  The players in the rotation are exactly the ones who should be there.  The substitution pattern is darn near flawless.

 

Great post. Well said. 

I am happy with the direction and the future is bright. If we can compete consistently right out of the gate for JJJ and Ja this might end up being helpful in retaining them longterm. Signings like DBs only help this.

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1 hour ago, toocoolkellz said:

Would you prefer we keep Iggy?

I wasn't arguing against the trade.  I'm just saying that this is the second time I've heard that one game cited as if it were a normal game for him, and cautioning people to temper their expectations.

I think the only thing I'm sorry about is Iguodiva getting the opportunity to play.  Now, because of his "shining example", every time some self inflated, egotistical, punk, SOB gets traded to a small market team, he can just opt to not honor his contract to play if he doesn't feel like it, and get his full pay by not showing up and just demand to get traded to the locale of his choice because of this jackass' precedent.  If this kind of thing is allowed to continue it will ruin professional sports for small market teams.  The league should have told him his choice was to honor his contract he signed of his own free will like a man, or permanently retire.

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6 hours ago, King Dork said:

Where are you looking. Only one I’ve seen is ESPN, which is the one I trust the least. 

The Ringer, Bleacher Report (I know..) and si.com (I know, I know..) to name a few.

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I have a hard time believing people are pooing on these trades.  You got rid of a 17 million dollar anchor who was not popular with his teammates-using the term loosely as he never was part of the team...he just took money off their table that could have been an actual player.  Replacing that clown was a great move, sure its a gamble on JW's health but its not a huge risk either.  He can be cut next year.

I was cool with Jae also but at the same time he could be frustrating as hell when he'd go cold and keep jacking.

The trade was creative and has huge potential upside with limited risk.  Thats what you have to do to get better.  I trust the FO much more than I trust those of us out her banging on our keyboards.

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After further consideration, we got fleeced, even if Winslow lives up to potential. Eating Waiters contract is enough to torpedo this deal for me and getting Dieng doesn't negate that for me.

I really hope Winslow can stay healthy, I really hope having a fresh start rejuvenates his career and I hope he is more productive than he has been but bring that he is currently not healthy, I'm kind of skeptical.

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36 minutes ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

After further consideration, we got fleeced, even if Winslow lives up to potential. Eating Waiters contract is enough to torpedo this deal for me and getting Dieng doesn't negate that for me.

I really hope Winslow can stay healthy, I really hope having a fresh start rejuvenates his career and I hope he is more productive than he has been but bring that he is currently not healthy, I'm kind of skeptical.

The Waiters contract was the cost of doing business. These expirings had to be moved in order to get some kind of value for them. His contract also serves as filler to meet the salary cap floor for next year with a very weak FA class. I understand wanting to preserve the cap space but it seems the FO has identified the core and prefers the 21 FA period.

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I give all of these moves an A. Maybe I'm being naive, but looking at the moves the FO has made so far, I'm trusting their judgement. They were very forward thinking moves and this rebuild has progressed at an exponential pace.

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Memphis Grizzlies front office keeps its promises at NBA's trade deadline

Zach Kleiman and Jason Wexler sat in a conference room at FedExForum almost 10 months ago and, after the platitudes and niceties they used to explain the clumsy circumstances that led to their promotions last April, two distinct messages served as their initial mission statement. 

“We’re not going to be sacrificing the long-term future for short-term gains,” said Kleiman, the Grizzlies' 31-year-old executive vice president for basketball operations and de facto general manager.

“We’ve trended toward being reactive instead of proactive the last couple years,” said Wexler, the former real estate developer who now serves as team president.

Many new front offices have offered similar blueprints over the years. It’s the followthrough on those promises that can be difficult, particularly when confronted with a potential playoff team that wasn’t supposed to be sniffing the playoffs yet. 

But if there’s one definitive takeaway from the flurry of activity by Memphis during this year’s NBA trade deadline, which notably included the acquisition of Justise Winslow and the contract extension of Dillon Brooks, it’s that this iteration of Grizzlies’ management remains committed to those promises.

Even though this rebuild is progressing faster than expected. Even if it means potentially disrupting the chemistry and cohesion that helped create an unexpectedly wonderful NBA playoffs chase this season.

A franchise that had no vision as recently as a year ago is suddenly adept at looking into the future in ways other organizations can’t. 

Since last year’s NBA trade deadline, Memphis has essentially turned the bloated contracts of Marc Gasol, Mike Conley and Chandler Parsons into Jonas Valanciunas, Brandon Clarke, DeAnthony Melton, Josh Jackson, Winslow, Dion Waiters, Gorgui Dieng, two future first-round picks and two future second-round picks. 

It’s a remarkable haul given the remarkable predicament the Grizzlies seemed to be in not that long ago, and given the pressure being applied by Andre Iguodala and his national army of sycophants who tried to undercut Memphis' ability to trade him.     

But in acquiring Winslow, Waiters and James Johnson from the Miami Heat in exchange for Iguodala, Jae Crowder and Solomon Hill — and then flipping Johnson for Dieng in a subsequent deal with the Minnesota Timberwolves — the Grizzlies took a risk in the short term.

They traded away three of their best assets, including the two best locker room leaders they had on this year’s young team, for two bad contracts that will eat up much of their salary cap space heading into this offseason and only one player they actually wanted. 

That player (Winslow) also happens to be injured at the moment, with a recent past that suggests he might be injury prone.

But it was a risk worth taking because of what it could mean in the long term. Because in the short term, the 2020 free agent class is bad. Because Winslow, the No. 10 overall pick in the 2015 NBA draft, is still just 23 years old with a desirable contract and a skill-set that, in theory, meshes with what the Grizzlies already have in place. 

He could be the three-and-D wing, with a little play-making mixed in, this organization lacked throughout the Grit and Grind era.

If we take the template of last year’s Toronto Raptors, a team constructed around one star (Kawhi Leonard) and a powerful top-seven rotation, as a template of what a contending Memphis Grizzlies team could look like down the road, this sets up as another step in the right direction.

The Grizzlies’ core right now, and for the next couple years potentially, includes two 20-year-old potential stars in Ja Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr., 24-year-old Brooks, 23-year-old Clarke, 21-year-old Melton and Winslow, who donned a Memphis Grizzlies hat and created a catchy new hashtag (#DontPokeTheBear) on social media Wednesday night to commemorate the occasion. 

There are no qualifiers attached to the news that Brooks, in the midst of the best stretch of his career, and just a couple days after he endeared himself to the fanbase by calling out Iguodala for his refusal to play in Memphis, had inked a new 3-year, $35-million contract.

It was a proactive move by the Grizzlies with Brooks set to become a restricted free agent this offseason, when they had the option to react to someone else’s offer. It was a contract that, frankly, felt like a bargain given what Brooks is doing on the court this season, and what he might have commanded after this season.

There are, for instance, just nine NBA players averaging at least 16 points and shooting 39.9 percent or better from 3-point range like Brooks is following Wednesday’s win at Dallas.

One is Jaren Jackson Jr. Of the other seven, only New Orleans Pelicans star Brandon Ingram is making less money than Brooks will the next three years, and Ingram is expected to be offered a max contract in the coming months. 

What’s most reassuring is, whether Brooks continues on his current upward trajectory, or Winslow works out, these decisions don't appear to be influenced by the fact that the Grizzlies are above .500 for the first time and three games up in the race for the No. 8 seed in the Western Conference. 

They appear to be the result of a front office executing a plan that sounded good 10 months ago and looks better now.

You can reach Commercial Appeal columnist Mark Giannotto via email at mgiannotto@gannett.com and follow him on Twitter: @mgiannotto

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10 hours ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

Winslow has only played in 64% of games that he could have played in. He's started in only about 43% of the games he has played. He is currently out with another injury and has a PER of 8. If you have a PER in the single digits, you're generally trash. I'm not going to dog him out because it may be situational or may be related to his injury but that's not good. He's shooting 22% from 3 and is a below avg 3 pt shooter in his career. He is shooting below 40% from the field and for his career is right around 40% from the field. None of these numbers are good. He has also NEVER shot over 70% from the free throw line. That's never good.

With all of that being said, I hope coming to a new team and having a fresh start will revitalize and rejuvenate him. I don't project him as the starter that we need. I think he's a good relentless, hard nosed determined player who can bring some grittiness when healthy, but he's only been healthy 64% of his career. 

He is also 23. 23. If he were 28 then id be worried about his injury history more.

Not only that, but how many games was jae crowder or iggy going to play for the grizzlies over the next 3 years.

You can argue that he isn't THAT great, due to your data, but if you compare that to what we would have gotten from iggy and crowder, the grizzlies won the deal.

I think it is disingenuous to use his 22% three point average this year to imply that he is a bad 3 point shooter, he has only played 11 games this year, some of which he might have had lingering injuries. Last year his 3 point shooting vastly improved and it has been on a steady incline for the past 2 years. Last year he made 96 three pointers in 66 games. The year before he made 49 three pointers in 68 games. Both were 37.5% and 38% averages for the year.

If you want to argue that the money we owe him over the next 2 years is too much given his injury risk, and that that alone means it was a bad trade, okay, that's your opinion, but there is still a very decent chance that he outplays his contract and we got a steal. Thats what the grizz are banking on.

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Yep don't see how anyone can think our moves this trade deadline are bad.    They all make perfect sense when evaluating the entire picture.   

With the emergence of Dillon becoming the complimentary scorer we need to pair with Ja and Jaren.  That meant all we were missing is the versatile defensive minded wing to compliment the rest.     That could be Melton but he is too undersized to take on the Giannis, Luka, Lebrons, Kawhi's of the world.   We needed one with real size and athleticism to match up.   Also we needed someone to take on secondary ball-handling as to not overload Ja.   That isn't Dillon's specialty.   Josh Jackson in theory could be that guy but he has yet to fully show it.    Picking up Winslow a player who actually has proven to have those skills at his contract is a no brainer.     It's basically like betting on Curry's ankles.   People forget that everyone was scared of his fragile body and that's why his second contract was so low.  During that second one Curry never really had an issue again.   Hopefully, we have the same luck with Winslow.  

We also get two true back Bigs in Bell and Dieng.   One that is mobile and athletic and the other more True Center that can bang with Bigs and shoot 3s.    We officially have NO HOLES on our roster.    Who cares if we had to take on bad contract to make it work or didn't get additional picks.   We already have like 8 first round picks for the next 5yrs!    

Great moves by FO i applaud them.   Don't understand anyone crying over Crowder and Solo and us waiving Waiters.  

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