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Justise Winslow to MEMPHIS

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7 hours ago, chipc3 said:

When JJJ and Nusrise get cleared it will take a few games for everyone to adjust. Don’t get too depressed if they struggle at first, especially Winslow.

I expect winslow will struggle ,maybe 15-18 min per game to start 

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10 hours ago, srmjr23 said:

I, for one, am going to make snap judgments one way or the other. If they win they'll surely make the playoffs and take a couple games off the Lakers, and if they lose they will be a lottery team for the next 3 years.

LOL

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5 hours ago, lions said:

I expect winslow will struggle ,maybe 15-18 min per game to start 

Honestly it's to be expected from him being out so long. I'm sure he's not in game shape. He was tired during fatigued during shootaround Saturday when I saw him. Even still though he's had the chance to learn the sets so that helps a bit and he's surrounded by very talented players from top to bottom.  With a pg like Ja just find the open space in the defense and he'll be ok. I'm glad he's coming back now so we can build a little chemistry before the end of the season WHEN we reach the playoffs.  Just wish BC was back too. I'd love to see his and Josh's chemistry,  I think it may be a thing of beauty 

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If the season doesn't resume  or resumes at a much later date.   Then this move will be considered super lucky genius.   Miami ONLY traded Winslow because they are going all in this season's playoffs.    If there is no playoffs then they gave him away for nothing.  

Nevermind if we do resume and he plays after additional rest and healing.   Seriously doubt they would've given him up if they knew this season was gonna be a wash. 

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3 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

If the season doesn't resume  or resumes at a much later date.   Then this move will be considered super lucky genius.   Miami ONLY traded Winslow because they are going all in this season's playoffs.    If there is no playoffs then they gave him away for nothing.  

Nevermind if we do resume and he plays after additional rest and healing.   Seriously doubt they would've given him up if they knew this season was gonna be a wash. 

nice observation

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

If the season doesn't resume  or resumes at a much later date.   Then this move will be considered super lucky genius.   Miami ONLY traded Winslow because they are going all in this season's playoffs.    If there is no playoffs then they gave him away for nothing.  

Nevermind if we do resume and he plays after additional rest and healing.   Seriously doubt they would've given him up if they knew this season was gonna be a wash. 

They did sign Iggy to a 2 year, $30 million extension so I wouldn;t say it was for nothing. They also got rid of 2 headaches in Waiters and Winslow. Pretty sure that means something to them as well. 

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1 hour ago, Ole Dirty Klondike said:

They did sign Iggy to a 2 year, $30 million extension so I wouldn;t say it was for nothing. They also got rid of 2 headaches in Waiters and Winslow. Pretty sure that means something to them as well. 

considering he was viewed as 'untouchable' a year ago.   trading him to get rid of couple of bad contracts isn't something they wouldve done knowing this seasons outcome.    

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Miami was tired of him being injured right? 

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Also the development of Duncan Robinson and Tyler Hero. 

 

Winslow is a 'I hope'. I hope he plays well, I hope he stays healthy. He has never played one full healthy season. 

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Another problem in Miami was that Jimmy Butler was just a better more finish version of him without the injury's they need to spread the floor.

In our offense it doesn't really matter who brings the ball up  everyone ends up touching it.

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Winslow doesnt score a lot correct? He was what only 11 points a game before he went down?

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3 hours ago, grizzgolf said:

Winslow doesnt score a lot correct? He was what only 11 points a game before he went down?

I don't think scoring is ever going to be his main role. I would expect he will provide defense, decent ball handling and the ability to score a three every now and then. Kind of like Kyle Anderson but without the sinking feeling we get every time he gets wide open behind the line.

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2 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

I don't think scoring is ever going to be his main role. I would expect he will provide defense, decent ball handling and the ability to score a three every now and then. Kind of like Kyle Anderson but without the sinking feeling we get every time he gets wide open behind the line.

To me he's basically a young version of a cross between Kyle Anderson and Jae Crowder, but one that isn't a chucker and isn't painfully slow.  So essentially the best of both worlds!

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21 hours ago, BnaBreaker said:

To me he's basically a young version of a cross between Kyle Anderson and Jae Crowder, but one that isn't a chucker and isn't painfully slow.  So essentially the best of both worlds!

He’s also more athletic IMO than both Anderson and Crowder

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On 3/14/2020 at 8:30 AM, fanboyslim said:

I don't think scoring is ever going to be his main role. I would expect he will provide defense, decent ball handling and the ability to score a three every now and then. Kind of like Kyle Anderson but without the sinking feeling we get every time he gets wide open behind the line.

I could see that. He's pretty good on D. 

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On 3/14/2020 at 7:30 AM, fanboyslim said:

I don't think scoring is ever going to be his main role. I would expect he will provide defense, decent ball handling and the ability to score a three every now and then. Kind of like Kyle Anderson but without the sinking feeling we get every time he gets wide open behind the line.

But just to point out, for those expecting a huge improvement over Kyle.

Career stats:
FG%
Kyle - .492
Justise - .417
3-pt %
Kyle - .307
Justise - .337
FT%
Kyle - .697
Justise -  .646
Reb per 36
Kyle - 7.3
Justise - 6.8
Ast per 36
Kyle - 3.6
Justise - 3.5
Stl per 36
Kyle - 1.8
Justise - 1.2
Blk per 36
Kyle - 1.0
Justise - 0.5
TOV per 36
Kyle - 1.6
Justise - 2.0
PF per 36
Kyle - 2.6
Justise - 3.1

Pts per 36
Kyle - 9.9
Justise - 11.5
Offensive rating
Kyle - 109
Justise - 99
Defensive rating
Kyle - 103
Justise - 106
TS %
Kyle - .545
Justise - .486
Win shares per 48
Kyle - .121
Justise - .054

Kyle is statistically better in all but two categories - 3-pt% and points per 36, of which Justise is merely 3% better in the former, and 1.6 points better in the latter.  He may be a better fit just because he does shoot more, but that remains to be seen.  I hope he is the answer to what we need, but I am only cautiously optimistic.  What we really need is for Jaren and Brandon to get healthy.  That, along with a slumping Dillon, have been our biggest problems, not Kyle Anderson being unable to fill the void left by those three as @GrizzTigerFan and others would like to tell the story.

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Are you seriously expecting GTF and the rest to listen to facts instead of their finger pointing emotional responses? 

 

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I'm not disagreeing that Anderson has put up generally better numbers than Winslow over the course of their respective careers.  In terms of being a fit with *THIS* starting lineup on *THIS* team with *THIS* roster, however, I think Winslow is the better option.  

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On 3/15/2020 at 10:39 PM, smit-tay griz said:

Kyle is statistically better in all but two categories - 3-pt% and points per 36, of which Justise is merely 3% better in the former, and 1.6 points better in the latter.  He may be a better fit just because he does shoot more, but that remains to be seen.  I hope he is the answer to what we need, but I am only cautiously optimistic.  What we really need is for Jaren and Brandon to get healthy.  That, along with a slumping Dillon, have been our biggest problems, not Kyle Anderson being unable to fill the void left by those three as @GrizzTigerFan and others would like to tell the story.

Stats without context mean nothing.   FO apparently agrees with my opinion because they made the trade.    Teams don't fear Kyle Anderson scoring or shooting AT ALL.  Y That is a problem in Taylor's offense.    Also by no coincidence the Offensive metrics have cratered in starting lineup since the switch from Crowder to KA.   Noticed that Kyle's stats are also better than Crowder's too but you cannot argue that the SL was much more productive when Crowder was in over him.   Teams pack the paint when KA shoots yet run at the .31% shooting JC every time he chucks.        Fit is more than just simply numbers. 

Jonas and Marc are prime examples of this.    Jonas was a much more productive player when it came to raw stats but he wasn't as good of a fit on that Raptors team as Marc.     Marc is a much better floor spacer than Jonas but Marc cannot/would not fit in a faster paced offense as well as Jonas does.   

Simply put you want the guy that fits the type of style and offense the coach is crafting.   Now do you want to argue that the nonshooting nonathletic  Kyle fits it better than athletic and willing shooter Justise will?   

 

PS FO already showed you what they believe.   

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4 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Stats without context mean nothing.   FO apparently agrees with my opinion because they made the trade.    Teams don't fear Kyle Anderson scoring or shooting AT ALL.  Y That is a problem in Taylor's offense.    Also by no coincidence the Offensive metrics have cratered in starting lineup since the switch from Crowder to KA.   Noticed that Kyle's stats are also better than Crowder's too but you cannot argue that the SL was much more productive when Crowder was in over him.   Teams pack the paint when KA shoots yet run at the .31% shooting JC every time he chucks.        Fit is more than just simply numbers. 

Jonas and Marc are prime examples of this.    Jonas was a much more productive player when it came to raw stats but he wasn't as good of a fit on that Raptors team as Marc.     Marc is a much better floor spacer than Jonas but Marc cannot/would not fit in a faster paced offense as well as Jonas does.   

Simply put you want the guy that fits the type of style and offense the coach is crafting.   Now do you want to argue that the nonshooting nonathletic  Kyle fits it better than athletic and willing shooter Justise will?   

 

PS FO already showed you what they believe.   

Justise may be a better fit, if he is - that's great, but I'm pretty sure that NBA teams around the league are not in fear of his shooting either.  I don't really care who's on the floor as long as we win, but our recent problems were not because of Kyle.  The problems were because we had two important offensive weapons down because of injury, plus Dillon was struggling, and to a lesser extent so was JV.  Sure, we would have looked much better offensively if we had a Khris Middleton or Brandon Ingram in the lineup, but guess what?  We don't have one, nor are we likely to get one.  As for the offense "cratering", I didn't hear anyone complaining when we were 8-0 or 8-1 when Kyle was starting.  It was only after Jaren and Brandon went down, after all offense is not the only way to win a game.  You only have to have more points than your opponent in a game, not necessarily a ton of points.  If and when the games start back up, if Justise is starting I'm good, just as long as we win.

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5 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

Justise may be a better fit, if he is - that's great, but I'm pretty sure that NBA teams around the league are not in fear of his shooting either.  I don't really care who's on the floor as long as we win, but our recent problems were not because of Kyle.  The problems were because we had two important offensive weapons down because of injury, plus Dillon was struggling, and to a lesser extent so was JV.  Sure, we would have looked much better offensively if we had a Khris Middleton or Brandon Ingram in the lineup, but guess what?  We don't have one, nor are we likely to get one.  As for the offense "cratering", I didn't hear anyone complaining when we were 8-0 or 8-1 when Kyle was starting.  It was only after Jaren and Brandon went down, after all offense is not the only way to win a game.  You only have to have more points than your opponent in a game, not necessarily a ton of points.  If and when the games start back up, if Justise is starting I'm good, just as long as we win.

They don't have to "fear" Justise shooting ability for him to be effective spacer.   They just need to respect it enough to come out of the paint.   I know u understand the difference.  Kyle will have to dramatically change his form for that to ever be the case.   His wind up is so slow that even Trae Young was agile enough to block the 6'8' w/7'2wingspan dudes shot!?!?   So its not even good enough for him to just simply shoot more for teams to respect him. 

The SL took a nose dive production-wise before Jaren got hurt.     The 8-1 record was a mirage due to the fact that it was spread out over a span of games so opponents didn't gameplan for it.  Once it became defacto its success rate dropped off a cliff.    

Kyle's presence also negatively effect JV and Ja on offense.      How many times did we watch Ja and Jonas cough up the ball in the packed paint because teams sagged off Kyle.    Lack of spacing hurts offensive players - cmon i know u know this because this was the complaint for years in regards to Tony Allen.    When you have a player like Kyle in your starting unit then it forces the other players to have to be dang near AllStar level offensive players to offset him.    If they go back to just average then offense goes kaput. 

Don't start with the its better to have great defense vs good offense argument either.    The FO purposely brought in Taylor to craft a system that has BOTH Top 10 offense AND defense.    Kyle helps on only one side of that equation.  

Draymond is basically APEX version of what Kyle can hope to be.   And DG is only successful because he IS surrounded by TWO HOF' level shooters surrounding him and he plays the 4.   We have two guys in our SL that need spacing to be fully effective so Kyle at the 3 will never work longterm. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

They don't have to "fear" Justise shooting ability for him to be effective spacer.   They just need to respect it enough to come out of the paint.   I know u understand the difference.  Kyle will have to dramatically change his form for that to ever be the case.   His wind up is so slow that even Trae Young was agile enough to block the 6'8' w/7'2wingspan dudes shot!?!?   So its not even good enough for him to just simply shoot more for teams to respect him. 

The SL took a nose dive production-wise before Jaren got hurt.     The 8-1 record was a mirage due to the fact that it was spread out over a span of games so opponents didn't gameplan for it.  Once it became defacto its success rate dropped off a cliff.    

Kyle's presence also negatively effect JV and Ja on offense.      How many times did we watch Ja and Jonas cough up the ball in the packed paint because teams sagged off Kyle.    Lack of spacing hurts offensive players - cmon i know u know this because this was the complaint for years in regards to Tony Allen.    When you have a player like Kyle in your starting unit then it forces the other players to have to be dang near AllStar level offensive players to offset him.    If they go back to just average then offense goes kaput. 

Don't start with the its better to have great defense vs good offense argument either.    The FO purposely brought in Taylor to craft a system that has BOTH Top 10 offense AND defense.    Kyle helps on only one side of that equation.  

Draymond is basically APEX version of what Kyle can hope to be.   And DG is only successful because he IS surrounded by TWO HOF' level shooters surrounding him and he plays the 4.   We have two guys in our SL that need spacing to be fully effective so Kyle at the 3 will never work longterm. 

 

 

We'll see.  I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but you're making a lot of proclamations based on no evidence - yet.  I hope it all works out for the team.  I still think KA is an asset to this team, and if he does it from the bench, so be it.  Go Grizzlies! if they ever get to play again.

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13 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

We'll see.  I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but you're making a lot of proclamations based on no evidence - yet.  I hope it all works out for the team.  I still think KA is an asset to this team, and if he does it from the bench, so be it.  Go Grizzlies! if they ever get to play again.

I making my proclamations based off knowledge off of both of their playstyles.   Remember i was suggesting they trade for Justise before they actually did it.    If fully healthy and given time to develop chemistry with the other 4 guys.  Justise raises the ceiling of that group higher than Kyle can and that should be all we care about.  

Man now i am falling back into BBallDepression again now that you mentioned the not playing again........

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