Kevin B Moses

The official Hot take thread

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Just now, GrizzTigerFan said:

No kidding Sherlock.    Where am i saying that Bell is some Saviour or should be in our future plans???    Context man are you capable of understanding context?    Clearly i am mentioning Bell because Jaren and BC are out.    Also did you read the post i was actually responding to when i compared Bell to Brandon.   

No. 

If you read it you would see i was commenting on Bell's size not his skills.    BTW Paul George is 6'9 or 10"  he is legit Big guy so of course he is bigger than Bell. 

Nobody was going overboard but when the coach is rolling out GLeaguers instead and constantly playing True Bigs against HOU and we are getting blitzed.   Then it is perfectly reasonable to bring up the fact that we do have another Big in rotation that is potentially a better matchup. 

Also why shouldnt Bell be in rotation with JJJ and BC out???   You wanna give more minutes to Marko or Yuta??   May as well see what Bell can do.    He can atleast play fast and is a lob threat.   No reason to have him on the shelf when he is a better player than the guys you are giving minutes too. 

Bell should play and I haven't said anything to the contrary. I disagree with your evaluation that "we need him in the lineup"  with JJJ and Clarke out. It has been my position from the start that Bell should be getting minutes because the team has no one else to play. That doesn't make him a great shot blocker or defender. It makes him the last player on the roster able to play. 

 

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Just now, chipc3 said:

Bell should play and I haven't said anything to the contrary. I disagree with your evaluation that "we need him in the lineup"  with JJJ and Clarke out. It has been my position from the start that Bell should be getting minutes because the team has no one else to play. That doesn't make him a great shot blocker or defender. It makes him the last player on the roster able to play. 

So how can you say Bell should play then disagree with my assertion that Bell should play???

May need to reeducate yourself on the definition of disagree LOL

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I don't disagree that, with Clarke and Jackson out, Bell should get minutes. I disagree that Bell is someone the team needs, that he is shot blocker or defender of note. I believe I have made myself clear on this. 

Let's drop it for now. It doesn't matter because you will most likely be criticizing him in a week anyway and saying his minutes should be going to someone else anyway. Although you are running out of scrubs to love after turning your back on Yuta. 

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1 minute ago, chipc3 said:

I don't disagree that, with Clarke and Jackson out, Bell should get minutes. I disagree that Bell is someone the team needs, that he is shot blocker or defender of note. I believe I have made myself clear on this. 

Let's drop it for now. It doesn't matter because you will most likely be criticizing him in a week anyway and saying his minutes should be going to someone else anyway. Although you are running out of scrubs to love after turning your back on Yuta. 

I still have love for you man!!!  Dont be so hard on yourself. 

Dude i never said Bell was an elite defender or shotblocker - man you are too funny.   Always reaching. 

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12 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I still have love for you man!!!  Dont be so hard on yourself. 

Dude i never said Bell was an elite defender or shotblocker - man you are too funny.   Always reaching. 

You initially implied that Bell was a player who could have some impact. Saying he could play defense, hit a corner three last night, athletic, etc. Chip is basically saying that while he should play under these conditions that Bell is no good. He is a bottom of the barrel player that should only play in desperate circunstances and basically brings nothing to the table other than being a body.

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2 minutes ago, Dwash said:

You initially implied that Bell was a player who could have some impact. Saying he could play defense, hit a corner three last night, athletic, etc. Chip is basically saying that while he should play under these conditions that Bell is no good. He is a bottom of the barrel player that should only play in desperate circunstances and basically brings nothing to the table other than being a body.

Basically although that is a bit sterner than I meant if you took it that way. Bell is clearly only playing in deperate circumstances but I hope he becomes a better player than he has shown so far. I am just not expecting it based off of limited experience. Before we proclaim him anything more than a last gasp fill in we should see if he can contribute consistently is what I meant to say. 

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Bell is taller and longer than Brandon.    He is too short for a 5 for sure but he can handle the 4.    I think he should get more looks during all these injuries personally.   At least i know he is an NBA player.      He is a solid shot blocker and rebounder and can fly in transition.    Seems like we need that type of guy in rotation with Jaren and Brandon out. 

 

3 minutes ago, Dwash said:

You initially implied that Bell was a player who could have some impact. Saying he could play defense, hit a corner three last night, athletic, etc. Chip is basically saying that while he should play under these conditions that Bell is no good. He is a bottom of the barrel player that should only play in desperate circunstances and basically brings nothing to the table other than being a body.

Put my quote up top the Chip commented on.    SO ya'll can reread it.   

He did hit a corner 3 last night and he is athletic and he is known for playing hard on defense and rebounding.     You can debate whether someone saying a player is an NBA rotation player level or marginal all you want.   Neither comment is high praise.    

Our circumstance is DESPERATE.   I clearly qualified my statement when i said "DURING THESE INJURIES".  

 We played a team that doesn't play True Centers last night.   WE did play True Centers and got destroyed.  Please show me where i implied Bell was some Saviour or difference in us winning or losing the game.     The last 6 guys that played last night were all "Bottom of the barrel".      Where did i say Bell was good???

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14 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

 

Put my quote up top the Chip commented on.    SO ya'll can reread it.   

He did hit a corner 3 last night and he is athletic and he is known for playing hard on defense and rebounding.     You can debate whether someone saying a player is an NBA rotation player level or marginal all you want.   Neither comment is high praise.    

Our circumstance is DESPERATE.   I clearly qualified my statement when i said "DURING THESE INJURIES".  

 We played a team that doesn't play True Centers last night.   WE did play True Centers and got destroyed.  Please show me where i implied Bell was some Saviour or difference in us winning or losing the game.     The last 6 guys that played last night were all "Bottom of the barrel".      Where did i say Bell was good???

I said you implied that. When you start by listing all of these positive qualities in your first two posts....most people assume that you think he could be useful. When you say stuff like he is an "NBA player"...most people take that to mean he is more than a body that is barely hanging on to a job. Survey most basketball fans on that and I guarantee most will agree.

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39 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I said you implied that. When you start by listing all of these positive qualities in your first two posts....most people assume that you think he could be useful. When you say stuff like he is an "NBA player"...most people take that to mean he is more than a body that is barely hanging on to a job. Survey most basketball fans on that and I guarantee most will agree.

Or i listed his positive qualities because i was making a case that he should be getting minutes during these injuries.     Why would anyone argue that someone should get a look by posting their negative qualities??   Context matters. 

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15 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Or i listed his positive qualities because i was making a case that he should be getting minutes during these injuries.     Why would anyone argue that someone should get a look by posting their negative qualities??   Context matters. 

And Chip is basically saying that the only reason he should play is because we have no one else. Positive qualities are irrelevant because he is still a bad player and a poor fit. Just all we have left. Thats a simple concept.

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3 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Before last night's game you were complaining about players clogging the lanes and not being able to spread the court weren't you? 

This is why i commented back.   \Chip cherry picks comments without adjusting to context and situation.    Clearly he knows my Bell recommendation was about playing him as the Big against HOU.    But he spins it to make it sound like i am contradicting my statements about spacing.   When i have always stated that 1 in 4 out is still good for spacing.  

I aint on here going to war for freaking Jordan Bell.  But i will pushback if anyone thinks he shouldn't be given a look during these injuries to guys who play same position.    No where have i implied that Bell is some savior.   

Just like i aint implying Josh is.    But you are extremely blind or biased if you think Josh isn't a better choice on the wing over the flotsam on THIS  roster.  

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Just now, GrizzTigerFan said:

This is why i commented back.   \Chip cherry picks comments without adjusting to context and situation.    Clearly he knows my Bell recommendation was about playing him as the Big against HOU.    But he spins it to make it sound like i am contradicting my statements about spacing.   When i have always stated that 1 in 4 out is still good for spacing.  

I aint on here going to war for freaking Jordan Bell.  But i will pushback if anyone thinks he shouldn't be given a look during these injuries to guys who play same position.    No where have i implied that Bell is some savior.   

Just like i aint implying Josh is.    But you are extremely blind or biased if you think Josh isn't a better choice on the wing over the flotsam on THIS  roster.  

How did Small Ball aka MoreyVirus implode our roster AND the Jazz's roster at the same time?

Any other franchises with dead-men-walking rosters that this particularly pungent STRAND of basketball is infecting?

#MoreyVirus

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Hot take - ESPN will slurp Zion all day for his numbers in a loss and totally ignore Ja’s monster game that lead to a win. 
 

#They'reMakingMeHateThatDude

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27 minutes ago, King Dork said:

Hot take - ESPN will slurp Zion all day for his numbers in a loss and totally ignore Ja’s monster game that lead to a win. 
 

#They'reMakingMeHateThatDude

you already know

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Donovan Mitchell is the reason the jazz won't do anything in the playoffs.

Donovan Mitchell wants to be the star and he certainly is not utilizing the talents that are around him.

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FYI:  Zbo and Tony were on Vernon show on Friday (check it out)  Great interview was really fun seeing them together.   Tony verified what we all know to be true.   He gave up rebounds to Zbo and Zbo was highly skilled at tapping shots to himself to get extra rebounds.  

Tony concurred and let Zbo have rebounds.  So im pretty sure Marc and Mike did as well.  

Hot Take* Jaren doesnt care about paddin his rebound stats so he lets his teammates get them. 

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6 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

FYI:  Zbo and Tony were on Vernon show on Friday (check it out)  Great interview was really fun seeing them together.   Tony verified what we all know to be true.   He gave up rebounds to Zbo and Zbo was highly skilled at tapping shots to himself to get extra rebounds.  

Tony concurred and let Zbo have rebounds.  So im pretty sure Marc and Mike did as well.  

Hot Take* Jaren doesnt care about paddin his rebound stats so he lets his teammates get them. 

JJJ rebounding numbers are still sad. He doesnt have to average 12. I do think there is some level of stat padding with most of the very high leading rebounders by position. But JJJ,  he be getting 2 boards some nights. At some point you do have to ask, what cant Jaren figure out about rebounding that virtually every other big man in the league can do? Its not just lack of effort.  Lazy answer. Does Lamarcus Aldridge look like he is going all out when he gets his standard 8 boards? The bare minimum for a guy with his size and athleticism should be 6-7 boards. NBA history suggests he should sleepwalk into those numbers and with good effort should be at 8-9 rpg.

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4 minutes ago, Dwash said:

JJJ rebounding numbers are still sad. He doesnt have to average 12. I do think there is some level of stat padding with most of the very high leading rebounders by position. But JJJ,  he be getting 2 boards some nights. At some point you do have to ask, what cant Jaren figure out about rebounding that virtually every other big man in the league can do? Its not just lack of effort.  Lazy answer. Does Lamarcus Aldridge look like he is going all out when he gets his standard 8 boards? The bare minimum for a guy with his size and athleticism should be 6-7 boards. NBA history suggests he should sleepwalk into those numbers and with good effort should be at 8-9 rpg.

Jackson didn’t grow up a big man. He was a guard before his late growth spurt. I think that might have something to do with it 

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4 minutes ago, Dwash said:

JJJ rebounding numbers are still sad. He doesnt have to average 12. I do think there is some level of stat padding with most of the very high leading rebounders by position. But JJJ,  he be getting 2 boards some nights. At some point you do have to ask, what cant Jaren figure out about rebounding that virtually every other big man in the league can do? Its not just lack of effort.  Lazy answer. Does Lamarcus Aldridge look like he is going all out when he gets his standard 8 boards? The bare minimum for a guy with his size and athleticism should be 6-7 boards. NBA history suggests he should sleepwalk into those numbers and with good effort should be at 8-9 rpg.

Don't get me wrong - Jaren is a weak rebounder.   I do think he could get to average if he cared. 

I really just thought it was funny that Zbo basically admitted his stat padding ways.   Some of us saw that years ago. 

That's why i have never really overvalued rebounding numbers of individual players.   Team rebounding numbers are more important to me and as long as that is solid i don't care about JJJ numbers.  IF he is nailing 3s and protecting rims.     individual steals are sorta like that too.  If a guy is willing to gamble alot he can have good steal numbers.   Deflections are actually a better way to grade defense. 

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22 minutes ago, I❤️JV said:

.....or maybe...just maybe....Mike is not that good....anymore... 

Mike has taken and making more clutch shots in the playoffs and otherwise then Donovan Mitchell has taken in his entire career.

don't get me wrong Donovan Mitchell is a good player but he wants to be a superstar in year 3 and he's just not.

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1 minute ago, Allen said:

Jackson didn’t grow up a big man. He was a guard before his late growth spurt. I think that might have something to do with it 

Maybe but lots of skilled big guys were guards at first. Chris Webber, Ant Davis, Lamar Odom are the most popular ones I can think.

 

Just now, GrizzTigerFan said:

Don't get me wrong - Jaren is a weak rebounder.   I do think he could get to average if he cared. 

I really just thought it was funny that Zbo basically admitted his stat padding ways.   Some of us saw that years ago. 

That's why i have never really overvalued rebounding numbers of individual players.   Team rebounding numbers are more important to me and as long as that is solid i don't care about JJJ numbers.  IF he is nailing 3s and protecting rims.     individual steals are sorta like that too.  If a guy is willing to gamble alot he can have good steal numbers.   Deflections are actually a better way to grade defense. 

Again, saying stuff like he  needs more effort, dont care is a lazy excuse imo. Big guys who look like that could care less about most of the regular season get 7-8 boards. Pau Gasol was soft as a charmin as a rookie and he got 8 or 9. It something physical or technical or maybe mental as to why he doesnt atleast get 6 or 7. It may or may not matter, but it would be good to know why.

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

FYI:  Zbo and Tony were on Vernon show on Friday (check it out)  Great interview was really fun seeing them together.   Tony verified what we all know to be true.   He gave up rebounds to Zbo and Zbo was highly skilled at tapping shots to himself to get extra rebounds.  

Tony concurred and let Zbo have rebounds.  So im pretty sure Marc and Mike did as well.  

Hot Take* Jaren doesnt care about paddin his rebound stats so he lets his teammates get them. 

He lets * Jonas get them.  

Jaren and Zion are similar rebounders right now.  Jaren might actually be better.  

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5 hours ago, Dwash said:

Maybe but lots of skilled big guys were guards at first. Chris Webber, Ant Davis, Lamar Odom are the most popular ones I can think.

 

Again, saying stuff like he  needs more effort, dont care is a lazy excuse imo. Big guys who look like that could care less about most of the regular season get 7-8 boards. Pau Gasol was soft as a charmin as a rookie and he got 8 or 9. It something physical or technical or maybe mental as to why he doesnt atleast get 6 or 7. It may or may not matter, but it would be good to know why.

There was a game towards the middle of December (can't remember which one it was) where I tried to zero in just on JJJ's rebounding for each possession. What I kept noticing was how far away from the basket he was when the ball hit the rim. When he was already close to the basket or had just contested the shot, he did do a decent job of boxing out (though he still got outworked on some possessions), but the larger issue seemed to be that he just wasn't even in the vicinity of the basket.

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