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The Grizz have recalled Josh Jackson

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Josh clearly just hasn't found his role yet. If you could just combine Kyle and Josh you'd have a fantastic NBA player (and I suppose that is supposed to be Winslow). Josh does a couple plays a game that just make you think that he could be a legit NBA role player or maybe even starter. Then he does a few things that just make you scratch your head. And all that happens in the same possession sometimes. I hope he can get it figured out because as far as pure basketball talent, he's up there with Ja and Jaren. Skill is more similar to Ben McLemore though.

I will say the trio of Josh, Brandon, and Melton off the bench is pretty fun to watch as they can get after on defense and in transition.

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20 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Oh so 4 games into his new team you are ready to call it quits.   Geezzz  can we practice a tad bit more patience than that with the 22y who came from dysfunctional NBA team?   I aint surprised you jumping the gun so face tho you were already extremely biased against him when we acquired him. 

He is a NBA rotation player so far.   That is more than we can say for Guduric.     You cannot argue that his defense is legit the decision-making can be improved with time.    Besides if he resigns this summer then it will be on some Min type deal.   Perfectly worth keeping around for that unless we can get a lights out shooter for same price.    

Let's talk about this. Is he? I don't see him a rotation level player. He was bad on a terrible Suns team. He has been bad with us (small sample size is the only defense to that). His PER is lower than Guduric's. Guduric shoots better from the field, 3 point, and free throws. Guduric has been a better playmaker, averaging more assists per game, more per 36 minutes, and a better assists to turnover ratio. So what about the defense? His defense has been OK. His defensive rating is 110, which is consistent with some of the other guys on our team known as defenders- Jaren 110, Kyle 109, Melton 107. (Guduric is 113) So does that offset the poor offense? Well the gap between Jaren's offensive rating and his defensive rating is -1. Kyle +2, Melton 0, Jonas +11 (that one shocked me), Guduric -20 (terrible), Josh -30 (can we invent a word that is this much worse than terrible???) 

Let me be clear: Guduric is terrible and should only play in the rarest of circumstances. But Josh Jackson so far has been worse. His history in Phoenix suggests this is who he is. You all can keep holding out hope for him, but I am ready to move on already.

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1 hour ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Let's talk about this. Is he? I don't see him a rotation level player. He was bad on a terrible Suns team. He has been bad with us (small sample size is the only defense to that). His PER is lower than Guduric's. Guduric shoots better from the field, 3 point, and free throws. Guduric has been a better playmaker, averaging more assists per game, more per 36 minutes, and a better assists to turnover ratio. So what about the defense? His defense has been OK. His defensive rating is 110, which is consistent with some of the other guys on our team known as defenders- Jaren 110, Kyle 109, Melton 107. (Guduric is 113) So does that offset the poor offense? Well the gap between Jaren's offensive rating and his defensive rating is -1. Kyle +2, Melton 0, Jonas +11 (that one shocked me), Guduric -20 (terrible), Josh -30 (can we invent a word that is this much worse than terrible???) 

Let me be clear: Guduric is terrible and should only play in the rarest of circumstances. But Josh Jackson so far has been worse. His history in Phoenix suggests this is who he is. You all can keep holding out hope for him, but I am ready to move on already.

Where are you getting these stats?  According to NBA. com 

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612763/players-advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1

Josh has a offrtg of 105.2 and defrtg of 100.9 for +4.3 netrtg.    That's third  best netrtg on team.    Yes his offense is a mess but his defensive ability is real.   He can guard 1-4 and that's why Taylor tells him to focus mainly on defense. 

PER is a poor metric for guys that are primarily defense first.    So that' isn't surprising. 

So yea Josh is a real NBA rotation player.   

 

BTW   Lineup data for 

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612763/lineups-advanced/?CF=GROUP_NAME*E*J. Jackson

Ja + Dillon + Kyle + Jaren + Jonas is   92.3 Offrtg    97.6 Defrtg    -5.3 Netrtg 

Tyus + Melton + Josh + Brandon + Jaren   is  121.9 Offrtg    96.9 Defrtg    +25 Netrtg 

Majority of lineups with Josh in them are a plus rating.    Just like Melton,  his defense is a real positive.   Sure his offense and passing need a lot of work.   But what i like is the fact that he WANTS TO PASS and isn't trying to be some primary scorer.   

Josh is more suited to play the style Taylor wants - because he is athletic. long and switchy.      Ya'll need to look at the data not just purely eyetest.   I am puzzled how Grizz fans who loved TA are overlooking this.   Melton is super turnover prone too yet remains a net positive due to his defensive activity.    Basically Josh is taller/longer Melton with less offensive talent. 

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34 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Where are you getting these stats?  According to NBA. com 

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612763/players-advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1

Josh has a offrtg of 105.2 and defrtg of 100.9 for +4.3 netrtg.    That's third  best netrtg on team.    Yes his offense is a mess but his defensive ability is real.   He can guard 1-4 and that's why Taylor tells him to focus mainly on defense. 

PER is a poor metric for guys that are primarily defense first.    So that' isn't surprising. 

So yea Josh is a real NBA rotation player.   

 

 

Disgree on about all of that. Here are Josh's net ratings according to Basketball Reference:  https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksjo02.html

If you scroll down to the 4th section, Per 100 Possessions, Josh's Ortg in 80 and his Drtg is 110, so a net negative 30 rating.  Josh's net rating his rookie year was -19, 2nd year was -23, and now, granted in only 6 games, is -30.

You mention PER and its limitations, but I think we can all agree that his current PER of 5.7 is awful.  Turns 23 today, but has never shown he can be an efficient rotation player in the league. 

Not a big deal, he's an UFA this summer, not part of our future core, and will be looking for job come July.  Just never understood the FreeJosh nonsense from some of the local media. Anyone who watched him play on League Pass the last two seasons in Phoenix knew his game needed a lot of work. 

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He just seems to have a very low basketball IQ. I feel like almost every time he gets the ball he makes a boneheaded play. 

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16 minutes ago, Grizz&Grind said:

Going by the eye test, it looks like Josh's defense is average at best. He makes some players, but gets lost a lot too.

Yep.  Josh is James Ennis without the celebrity of being the #4 overall pick. 

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12 minutes ago, The J Crew said:

Disgree on about all of that. Here are Josh's net ratings according to Basketball Reference:  https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksjo02.html

If you scroll down to the 4th section, Per 100 Possessions, Josh's Ortg in 80 and his Drtg is 110, so a net negative 30 rating.  Josh's net rating his rookie year was -19, 2nd year was -23, and now, granted in only 6 games, is -30.

You mention PER and its limitations, but I think we can all agree that his current PER of 5.7 is awful.  Turns 23 today, but has never shown he can be an efficient rotation player in the league. 

Not a big deal, he's an UFA this summer, not part of our future core, and will be looking for job come July.  Just never understood the FreeJosh nonsense from some of the local media. Anyone who watched him play on League Pass the last two seasons in Phoenix knew his game needed a lot of work. 

Per 100?? I just showed you what his actual is.    Also look at BBAL reference stats for Oncourt  +3.9  On-Off +4.9 .   That is a positive.  
SLoMO is a -3.7 Oncourt  Off-Court.     Look at the stats at NBA.com.   

Look i am not claiming that Josh is some saviour or anything but he definitely has a role on NBA team.     What his impact shows me is that  Justise Winslow is gonna look awesome in our system.      Josh doesn't have 1/4 the ability of Justise and he already has a postive impact on the lineups.   Imagine what Winslow could do. .  

Also as much good as SloMo does it is apparent from advanced stats that he is not a Good fit in Taylors system too.   The gamble for Winslow makes sense. 

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54 minutes ago, Grizz&Grind said:

Going by the eye test, it looks like Josh's defense is average at best. He makes some players, but gets lost a lot too.

Thats what I see. Effort is there but lacks that natural instinct to predict what likely should happen on the fly and gets caught napping. 

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I know very little about Winslow, other that what is said here, but I like seeing Anderson starting. Kyle just seems to be a guy that plays well and makes smart plays. I hope Winslow can come in and make the team deeper and better.

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3 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Per 100?? I just showed you what his actual is.    Also look at BBAL reference stats for Oncourt  +3.9  On-Off +4.9 .   That is a positive.  
SLoMO is a -3.7 Oncourt  Off-Court.     Look at the stats at NBA.com.   

Look i am not claiming that Josh is some saviour or anything but he definitely has a role on NBA team.     What his impact shows me is that  Justise Winslow is gonna look awesome in our system.      Josh doesn't have 1/4 the ability of Justise and he already has a postive impact on the lineups.   Imagine what Winslow could do. .  

Also as much good as SloMo does it is apparent from advanced stats that he is not a Good fit in Taylors system too.   The gamble for Winslow makes sense. 

Per 100 doesn't change the stat, it just normalizes it to compare to all players. FG%, 3 point FG%, . . . all stay exactly the same on a Per 100 stat.  I don't know how your NBA stat is calculated, but I think you can admit it doesn't make much sense.

Here are actual stats - Josh is shooting 34% from the field and 17% from 3 with an eFG% of 38% in his 6 games.  Also a more than 2 to 1 TO to assists ratio. There's just no way that makes up a positive offensive impact.  Which is very similar to his 160ish games in Phoenix. 

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2 hours ago, Jetfixer said:

I know very little about Winslow, other that what is said here, but I like seeing Anderson starting. Kyle just seems to be a guy that plays well and makes smart plays. I hope Winslow can come in and make the team deeper and better.

Me too.  Kyle is a plus defender and a plus rebounder. Obviously a very good passer - especially entry passes to Jonas and Jaren that we often seem to have problems making. 

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6 minutes ago, The J Crew said:

Me too.  Kyle is a plus defender and a plus rebounder. Obviously a very good passer - especially entry passes to Jonas and Jaren that we often seem to have problems making. 

It's crazy to think that in the begging of the year we couldn't even make entry passes,now were fighting for the 8th spot 

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4 minutes ago, The J Crew said:

Per 100 doesn't change the stat, it just normalizes it to compare to all players. FG%, 3 point FG%, . . . all stay exactly the same on a Per 100 stat.  I don't know how your NBA stat is calculated, but I think you can admit it doesn't make much sense.

Here are actual stats - Josh is shooting 34% from the field and 17% from 3 with an eFG% of 38% in his 6 games.  Also a more than 2 to 1 TO to assists ratio. There's just no way that makes up a positive offensive impact.  Which is very similar to his 160ish games in Phoenix. 

I was just posting the stats from NBA.com.   Lineup data also bares out that he is usually a positive too.   I am not debating about his offensive performance. He stinks i get it. 

  I am just saying that the lineups perform better with him in them.     Pretty sure the reason is his athleticism and defensive versatility.    He just fits Taylor's system and it wont hurt to keep him around next season on league min deal.   

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6 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

It's crazy to think that in the begging of the year we couldn't even make entry passes,now were fighting for the 8th spot 

Yep. We were 6 and 16 at our low point. Seems like years ago. 

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6 hours ago, Grizz&Grind said:

Going by the eye test, it looks like Josh's defense is average at best. He makes some players, but gets lost a lot too.

I’m with you on the eye test.

 I got an A+ in Stats and basically what I learned was that you can make a stat say whatever you want it to say - same data points ... positive or negative - actually kinda scary.

ah ... but the good old eye test ... coupled with the good old gut feeling ->his defense is non remarkable... doesn’t completely suck nor soar. 

I’m hoping that he’s just feeling his way and will be good enough to keep a game or two from getting away.

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7 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Per 100?? I just showed you what his actual is.    Also look at BBAL reference stats for Oncourt  +3.9  On-Off +4.9 .   That is a positive.  
SLoMO is a -3.7 Oncourt  Off-Court.     Look at the stats at NBA.com.   

Look i am not claiming that Josh is some saviour or anything but he definitely has a role on NBA team.     What his impact shows me is that  Justise Winslow is gonna look awesome in our system.      Josh doesn't have 1/4 the ability of Justise and he already has a postive impact on the lineups.   Imagine what Winslow could do. .  

Also as much good as SloMo does it is apparent from advanced stats that he is not a Good fit in Taylors system too.   The gamble for Winslow makes sense. 

I disagree here, and I think it's pretty evident that is a wrong notion.  You're wanting to tear stuff up and pound square pegs into round holes again.

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43 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

I disagree here, and I think it's pretty evident that is a wrong notion.  You're wanting to tear stuff up and pound square pegs into round holes again.

Look at the stats.   SloMo is a good passer but his presence does hurt the offense due to lack of spacing.   Eyetest should verify that too.   You can disagree all you want.    SloMo is a better fit at backup 4 than starting 3.    Once again check the lineup data. 

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612763/players-advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1

 

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I think Josh will be brought back, unless someone throws more than expected at him. We're gonna need Winslow insurance and imho Josh in the right role can be serviceable. 

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Slomo is okay as a starting guy as we do not have better at the moment. His defense is okay and his passing ability is great. His offense sucks but as Josh too. And Josh is not a smart player at all. And what i like in Slomo is that his speed is good enough for my eyes catch  😁. As i'm getting old, slow player fit well with my eyes ....

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Everyone quit harassing GTF. The next few games could radically change his opinion. There is no use trying to alter someone’s thought process if he is going to do it himself in 48-64 hours.

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5 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Everyone quit harassing GTF. The next few games could radically change his opinion. There is no use trying to alter someone’s thought process if he is going to do it himself in 48-64 hours.

Don't you mean quit harassing "someone"?  :)

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