Subliminal

So are Jaren and Dillon good yet?

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58 minutes ago, I❤️JV said:

Good find thanks for the link

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2 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Can you name me one player on the Toronto Raptors championship team that is named Stephen Curry?

No?

Okay i won.

I don’t know why I am surprised with your response. I guess I just hoped you would be more intelligent. I should have known better.

 

2 hours ago, grizz1016 said:

Marc Gasol - last time he was an all star was in 2017

2016-2017 : 19.5 pts, 6.3 rebs

He'll probably get to 6+ sooner than later

Marc is the only example I could think of and there wasn’t much competition at center that season. Marc got voted in when there was a center position. After that season they changed how players are voted for the All-Star game to just guards and forwards.

I am glad to know you agree he has to improve at least. It seemed earlier you were saying he didn’t need to get more rebounds. 

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1 hour ago, I❤️JV said:

Excellent article.    Really makes a lot of sense.  JJJ is basically creating his "own position" sorta like Giannis did.   

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Sheed Wallace was pretty low at rebounding in his last two (out of 4) All Star years. 6.8 and 6.6 (although minutes were down). His prime per 36 really is only slightly better than Jaren's at age 20. Chris Bosh slid in there with a couple of 6.8 and 6.6 years. Honestly as Jaren naturally gets stronger and if he is able to play more minutes he should easily be a 6-7 board guy like them without much improvement on technique/effort. Not saying I want that, just saying he would be at their level.

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3 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Sheed Wallace was pretty low at rebounding in his last two (out of 4) All Star years. 6.8 and 6.6 (although minutes were down). His prime per 36 really is only slightly better than Jaren's at age 20. Chris Bosh slid in there with a couple of 6.8 and 6.6 years. Honestly as Jaren naturally gets stronger and if he is able to play more minutes he should easily be a 6-7 board guy like them without much improvement on technique/effort. Not saying I want that, just saying he would be at their level.

It’s easier to get back on an all-star team coming grown from big numbers than getting on before posting big numbers but your point is made. There have now been 3 players who were all-stars averaging over 6 but not 7 RPG.

JJJ is averaging 4.9 RPG this season after averaging 4.7 last season. 

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4 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

It’s easier to get back on an all-star team coming grown from big numbers than getting on before posting big numbers but your point is made. There have now been 3 players who were all-stars averaging over 6 but not 7 RPG.

JJJ is averaging 4.9 RPG this season after averaging 4.7 last season. 

Sheed was never really a big rebounder. Chris Bosh was a double digit guy however. Allstar still is heavily dependent on the quality of the team. If he is a 2nd best player on a 55-60 win team then he is hard to overlook even at 6-7 rebounds instead of 8-10.

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42 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Sheed was never really a big rebounder. Chris Bosh was a double digit guy however. Allstar still is heavily dependent on the quality of the team. If he is a 2nd best player on a 55-60 win team then he is hard to overlook even at 6-7 rebounds instead of 8-10.

He’d be very hard to put on an all-star team below 6 RPG.

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

I don’t know why I am surprised with your response. I guess I just hoped you would be more intelligent. I should have known better.

 

Marc is the only example I could think of and there wasn’t much competition at center that season. Marc got voted in when there was a center position. After that season they changed how players are voted for the All-Star game to just guards and forwards.

I am glad to know you agree he has to improve at least. It seemed earlier you were saying he didn’t need to get more rebounds. 

I never said anything about him not having to get more rebounds. You have me confused with someone else.

Regardless, multiple forwards in all star games have had 7 rebounds on average. As he grows into his body, it’s entirely possible Jaren can get there sooner than later.

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Obviously Jaren needs to improve his rebounding but the reason I'm not worried about it is because rebounding is honestly one of the easier skills to fix in the NBA. We've seen guys who's rebounding jumped pretty quickly, DeAndre Jordan was averaging 6.5-7 rebounds for like 5 straight seasons and then he became a consistent 13+ rebound average guy once he figured it out. Give Jaren time to get stronger in the core and lower body + experience to learn positioning and boxing out and he should be able to get to become at least ~7 rebound per night guy. 

Plus, if we're pairing him in the future with Clarke (ideally our starting 4/5 combo of the future), I'm less worried since Clarke is a monster rebounder by all indications so far. 

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8 hours ago, Kevin B Moses said:

do you have evidence to back up this claim that the only reason Conley was ever considered is because he was so clutch. 

Mike Conley did not make the All-Star team for a couple of reasons. Number one the NBA ignored the grizzlies and so it was easier to put one player from our team into the All-Star game, even though it was clear many years that they deserved at least two.

When you ignore a team that's a lot easier to put four players from the Golden State warriors in because they're not ignored then to have Mike Conley get in.

Mike Conley didn't have an overwhelmingly stat happy year that would force him to go in above The darlings of the NBA that the NBA had set up to be in the All-Star game, namely Damian Lillard, Klay Thompson. 

That's the only reason why he didn't make it. sure if you went out and scored 30 points and had 15 assists the night they have to get him in, but that's not what we were talking about.

they allow Tony Parker to be in the All-Star game year after year even though his stats were never as Good as Conley's were, and yeah you can say well he made the NBA finals in one it, sure he did but he had Tim Duncan to do it with too.

It would just be another barrier even if Conley was overwhelmingly better by stats one year than somebody else.

 

KBM, bending the physical laws of the universe.

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16 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

KBM, bending the physical laws of the universe.

 In KBM's mind Conley should be an All-star this year because of Utah's 10 game win streak and their position in the standings. 

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12 minutes ago, Teddy.B said:

 In KBM's mind Conley should be an All-star this year because of Utah's 10 game win streak and their position in the standings. 

It's a bit sad.  For KBM, anyone who realistically looks at Mike Conley's career and truthfully assesses it is immediately labeled a Mike Conley hater, when nothing could be further from the truth.  I love me some Mike Conley, and I understand that in another time and place (or universe) where the Western Conference was not teeming with quality point guards, or maybe had he been in the Eastern Conference, that there would likely have been some All-Star appearances by Mr. Clutch.  After all he is an excellent basketball player.  Unfortunately Kevin cannot accept this.

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2 hours ago, grizz1016 said:

I never said anything about him not having to get more rebounds. You have me confused with someone else.

Regardless, multiple forwards in all star games have had 7 rebounds on average. As he grows into his body, it’s entirely possible Jaren can get there sooner than later.

My bad. I’m on drugs after a surgery I had and I got your comments confused with someone’s else’s. I apologize.

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1 hour ago, TT_Grizz said:

Obviously Jaren needs to improve his rebounding but the reason I'm not worried about it is because rebounding is honestly one of the easier skills to fix in the NBA. We've seen guys who's rebounding jumped pretty quickly, DeAndre Jordan was averaging 6.5-7 rebounds for like 5 straight seasons and then he became a consistent 13+ rebound average guy once he figured it out. Give Jaren time to get stronger in the core and lower body + experience to learn positioning and boxing out and he should be able to get to become at least ~7 rebound per night guy. 

Plus, if we're pairing him in the future with Clarke (ideally our starting 4/5 combo of the future), I'm less worried since Clarke is a monster rebounder by all indications so far. 

DeAndre Jordan averaged around 5 RPG his first two seasons in the league when he played 14.5 and 16.2 MPG respectively. His average jumped to 7.2 RPG when his minutes increased to 25 MPG the next season. He maintained those minutes for the next two seasons and averaged 8.3 and 7.2 RPG the next two seasons before jumping up to 13.2 RPG when his minutes jumped to over 30 MPG. 

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24 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

It's a bit sad.  For KBM, anyone who realistically looks at Mike Conley's career and truthfully assesses it is immediately labeled a Mike Conley hater, when nothing could be further from the truth.  I love me some Mike Conley, and I understand that in another time and place (or universe) where the Western Conference was not teeming with quality point guards, or maybe had he been in the Eastern Conference, that there would likely have been some All-Star appearances by Mr. Clutch.  After all he is an excellent basketball player.  Unfortunately Kevin cannot accept this.

On the one hand you bellyache about the grizzlies lack of respect, on the other you find all of these reasons why it is clear mike was never a clear allstar.

If i said, mike conley should have made an allstar appearance at least once during the grizzlies gng era, and he should have replaced klay or damien to get there, I still don't see how that is so hard to understand.

Heres the point: if you and your mike conley hating friends would admit that it was more convenient to award Marc or Zbo with an allstar appearance over Mike, since it was unheard of to put more than one grizzlies on an allstar team, then i might not act this way about it 

Point 2: Klay Thompson was rewarded for being an allstar despite not having allstar numbers because he was on a team with other allstars. But mike wasn't afforded that same luxury, even though when mike was the main scorer he put up allstar numbers. You are going to say, well of course this makes logical sense, but it doesn't.

It was clear that mike sacrificed individual numbers for team success, just like klay did, but since the grizzlies are the grizzlies, they get 1 allstar.

You can't justify it. The fact is that the grizzlies had the best record in the league, and mike had the numbers, didn't get in. If mike is scoring 20 a game, well his team doesn't have a good enough record, Lillard's whining that year, mike says nothing because mike is a professional.

You can say anything you want, you aren't right and youll never be right in this. Mike got snubbed plain and simple.

Would it have been easier for him to get it in the west, im not sure about that. Kemba was snubbed for years, so no i don't believe he would have been an all-star in the east either.

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When did the Grizzlies heave  "the best record in the league"?

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8 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

On the one hand you bellyache about the grizzlies lack of respect, on the other you find all of these reasons why it is clear mike was never a clear allstar.

If i said, mike conley should have made an allstar appearance at least once during the grizzlies gng era, and he should have replaced klay or damien to get there, I still don't see how that is so hard to understand.

Heres the point: if you and your mike conley hating friends would admit that it was more convenient to award Marc or Zbo with an allstar appearance over Mike, since it was unheard of to put more than one grizzlies on an allstar team, then i might not act this way about it 

Point 2: Klay Thompson was rewarded for being an allstar despite not having allstar numbers because he was on a team with other allstars. But mike wasn't afforded that same luxury, even though when mike was the main scorer he put up allstar numbers. You are going to say, well of course this makes logical sense, but it doesn't.

It was clear that mike sacrificed individual numbers for team success, just like klay did, but since the grizzlies are the grizzlies, they get 1 allstar.

You can't justify it. The fact is that the grizzlies had the best record in the league, and mike had the numbers, didn't get in. If mike is scoring 20 a game, well his team doesn't have a good enough record, Lillard's whining that year, mike says nothing because mike is a professional.

You can say anything you want, you aren't right and youll never be right in this. Mike got snubbed plain and simple.

Would it have been easier for him to get it in the west, im not sure about that. Kemba was snubbed for years, so no i don't believe he would have been an all-star in the east either.

Remind me when the Grizzlies had the best record in the league, because I don't ever remember us winning a division title, so I must've been asleep that season.

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12 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

On the one hand you bellyache about the grizzlies lack of respect, on the other you find all of these reasons why it is clear mike was never a clear allstar.

If i said, mike conley should have made an allstar appearance at least once during the grizzlies gng era, and he should have replaced klay or damien to get there, I still don't see how that is so hard to understand.

Heres the point: if you and your mike conley hating friends would admit that it was more convenient to award Marc or Zbo with an allstar appearance over Mike, since it was unheard of to put more than one grizzlies on an allstar team, then i might not act this way about it 

Point 2: Klay Thompson was rewarded for being an allstar despite not having allstar numbers because he was on a team with other allstars. But mike wasn't afforded that same luxury, even though when mike was the main scorer he put up allstar numbers. You are going to say, well of course this makes logical sense, but it doesn't.

It was clear that mike sacrificed individual numbers for team success, just like klay did, but since the grizzlies are the grizzlies, they get 1 allstar.

You can't justify it. The fact is that the grizzlies had the best record in the league, and mike had the numbers, didn't get in. If mike is scoring 20 a game, well his team doesn't have a good enough record, Lillard's whining that year, mike says nothing because mike is a professional.

You can say anything you want, you aren't right and youll never be right in this. Mike got snubbed plain and simple.

Would it have been easier for him to get it in the west, im not sure about that. Kemba was snubbed for years, so no i don't believe he would have been an all-star in the east either.

When?

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38 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

It's a bit sad.  For KBM, anyone who realistically looks at Mike Conley's career and truthfully assesses it is immediately labeled a Mike Conley hater, when nothing could be further from the truth.  I love me some Mike Conley, and I understand that in another time and place (or universe) where the Western Conference was not teeming with quality point guards, or maybe had he been in the Eastern Conference, that there would likely have been some All-Star appearances by Mr. Clutch.  After all he is an excellent basketball player.  Unfortunately Kevin cannot accept this.

 

Yeah, unfortunately he is a grown man. 

 

Mike was awesome for us and gave us lots of wonderful heroic moments, but alas facts are facts. 

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3 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

When?

Going into allstar break, not for the entire season. Which is what the barometer for an allstar was supposed to be based on.

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I thought with the time off from these boards that KBM might have changed, but alas, no

He is still parroting the same line, and bags every other Grizzly because in his eyes , "Mike doesnt get respect" 

Rudy, then Zbo, then Marc, now its Jaren, next it will be Ja

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Still dont understand the debate about JJJ rebound. He play with JV ,Clarke which take a lot and also Ja who like to get some. If you look at the way he play, he not fight for rebound and often let his teammate go for it. IF he was more selfish, he will be at 6+ already. For me this debate has no sense...

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1 minute ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Going into allstar break, not for the entire season. Which is what the barometer for an allstar was supposed to be based on.

What season was that?

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