Subliminal

So are Jaren and Dillon good yet?

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14 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Your hate for conley is immense, but most rational people know that he should have made an all-star team.

Wrong guy ... I have NEVER expressed disdain for Mike OR his style of play... 

I do , however, realize that fans' votes DID carry weight. 

14 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Seriously, i am so tired of you acting as if the grizzlies weren't routinely, systematically ignored.

Again - not gonna go back and forth with you - I KNOW that the Grizz were routinely systematically ignored.

I ALSO KNOW that San Antonio Spurs were ROUTINELY labeled 'boring'.

I took that to mean that casual fans - any fan outside of San Anton - would rather watch 'exciting' ball... slam dunks, ally oops, cross overs, huge chase down blocks etc...

 

Now...

I ask you again - clearly : Who's spot should he have taken ? 

You know - like you said - by stats alone?

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9 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Conley’s stats never qualified him for the All-Star game either. People felt he deserved a spot because he was so clutch but he never was a leader in scoring or assists. speaking strictly on stats Conley never had a strong argument to be an all-star.

Agreed.

 

10 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

 

Regardless, I can’t think of a single player voted or selected into the all star game as a PF/C who averaged fewer than five rebounds a game.

Sooo... why all the ‘hate’ for 13?

🤣💫💨

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4 minutes ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

Agreed.

 

Sooo... why all the ‘hate’ for 13?

🤣💫💨

I’m not hating. It’s just the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts. Jaren is a great talent. His range is astounding. However, his defense, while improving, is subpar currently. His rebounding is atrocious for someone his size. He has to work on these weak areas of his game to become an all-star in my opinion. 

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12 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I’m not hating. It’s just the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts. Jaren is a great talent. His range is astounding. However, his defense, while improving, is subpar currently. His rebounding is atrocious for someone his size. He has to work on these weak areas of his game to become an all-star in my opinion. 

Jaren's defense has been leveling up bigtime over this frame.   His closing D in this game was elite.    So what if he doesn't get rebounds.    JJJ literally drains 3s, runs fastbreaks,  finishes lobs, blocks shots, steals balls,  creates off the dribble, and defends pickNrolls.      He is basically a wing that can shoot and defend the rim at elite levels.    

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29 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

 

Conley’s stats never qualified him for the All-Star game either. People felt he deserved a spot because he was so clutch but he never was a leader in scoring or assists. speaking strictly on stats Conley never had a strong argument to be an all-star.

do you have evidence to back up this claim that the only reason Conley was ever considered is because he was so clutch. 

Mike Conley did not make the All-Star team for a couple of reasons. Number one the NBA ignored the grizzlies and so it was easier to put one player from our team into the All-Star game, even though it was clear many years that they deserved at least two.

When you ignore a team that's a lot easier to put four players from the Golden State warriors in because they're not ignored then to have Mike Conley get in.

Mike Conley didn't have an overwhelmingly stat happy year that would force him to go in above The darlings of the NBA that the NBA had set up to be in the All-Star game, namely Damian Lillard, Klay Thompson. 

That's the only reason why he didn't make it. sure if you went out and scored 30 points and had 15 assists the night they have to get him in, but that's not what we were talking about.

they allow Tony Parker to be in the All-Star game year after year even though his stats were never as Good as Conley's were, and yeah you can say well he made the NBA finals in one it, sure he did but he had Tim Duncan to do it with too.

It would just be another barrier even if Conley was overwhelmingly better by stats one year than somebody else.

 

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21 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I’m not hating. It’s just the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts. Jaren is a great talent. His range is astounding. However, his defense, while improving, is subpar currently. His rebounding is atrocious for someone his size. He has to work on these weak areas of his game to become an all-star in my opinion. 

I see what you're saying... 

and you WOULD be kinda right -> IF he was a 'traditional' big.

The range is as non-traditional as you can get. 

As ugly as his shot is (Matrix school of Ugly Shot Mechanics) -> I have NO DOUBT that each one he chunks up there has a CHANCE to fall. The defenders that have to decide whether to crowd him out there OR sag off... know his range too.

As for rebounding - the reason rebounding is such a valuable skill is simple - it increases your shots at the bucket. Rebounding numbers can also be 'inflated'.

-> I KNOW you SAW - in person - how many 'zbounds' #50 got. Many / most of those were just him following his own misses...well that and him being HIM ;) 

Truth be told the last REAL rebounder that I have seen was Dennis Rodman. If we get to the point where rebounding is the last skill we need to get us over the hump - I'm sure we can find a specialist.

His defense has NOT changed - the thing that changed is -> the reffs have started laying off of him.

Last season he was getting banged with fouls that could be chalked up as a rook paying his dues.

As he continues to get comfortable out there - his stats will pick up too. 

Reffs are human (for the most part) ... even AS a rookie - Ja is getting a whole lot of benefit of the doubt calls that are usually reserved for veterans... 

13 needs to keep balling ... everything else will fall in line.

Playing with Mike and Marc is waaaayyy different than playing with Ja 

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21 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

Number one the NBA ignored the grizzlies and so it was easier to put one player from our team into the All-Star game, even though it was clear many years that they deserved at least two.

stats wise - over WHO?

come on man ... FOCUS

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24 minutes ago, Kevin B Moses said:

they allow Tony Parker to be in the All-Star game year after year even though his stats were never as Good as Conley's were

are you ok man?

seriously... you aight? 

 

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6 minutes ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

stats wise - over WHO?

come on man ... FOCUS

Maybe you should go back and read my first post that you seemed to ignore. 

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43 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Jaren's defense has been leveling up bigtime over this frame.   His closing D in this game was elite.    So what if he doesn't get rebounds.    JJJ literally drains 3s, runs fastbreaks,  finishes lobs, blocks shots, steals balls,  creates off the dribble, and defends pickNrolls.      He is basically a wing that can shoot and defend the rim at elite levels.    

His rebound and defense is getting better, ppl forgot how long it took for Marc and MC to be what they where, Jaren and in special Ja are in a curve of evolution of their own, this team is a wing away to be a title contender.

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Cool thing if we resign Dillon is that our main core pieces would all be guys we DRAFTED.     Then potentially our complimentary guys all coming via free agency (Jonas and Tyus signed as FA's hopefully Melton resigns as well).   

Some of us have been saying for years that for Small Market teams the draft is single most important way to obtain your primary talent.   We appear to be completely justified in this viewpoint. 

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11 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Cool thing if we resign Dillon is that our main core pieces would all be guys we DRAFTED.     Then potentially our complimentary guys all coming via free agency (Jonas and Tyus signed as FA's hopefully Melton resigns as well).   

Some of us have been saying for years that for Small Market teams the draft is single most important way to obtain your primary talent.   We appear to be completely justified in this viewpoint. 

The grizzlies got super lucky. Look at how many teams have been trying to solve the roster riddle and unable to.

Getting that no. 2 pick was like playing madden on idiot-mode.

Unreal. But our trades have been great too, getting brandon clark, jonas, jae and all of those picks we are getting from utah, gs and Toronto. It would be a major surprise and a huge letdown if the grizzlies don't win the championship at this point.

There is no one even close to were we are especially will our resources.

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Jaren's defense has been leveling up bigtime over this frame.   His closing D in this game was elite.    So what if he doesn't get rebounds.    JJJ literally drains 3s, runs fastbreaks,  finishes lobs, blocks shots, steals balls,  creates off the dribble, and defends pickNrolls.      He is basically a wing that can shoot and defend the rim at elite levels.    

Are you saying Jaren will be the first PF/C verging fewer than 5 RPG to be an all-star or are you just saying you don’t care if he isn’t rebounding?

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40 minutes ago, 10SC-2-TOKYO said:

I see what you're saying... 

and you WOULD be kinda right -> IF he was a 'traditional' big.

The range is as non-traditional as you can get. 

As ugly as his shot is (Matrix school of Ugly Shot Mechanics) -> I have NO DOUBT that each one he chunks up there has a CHANCE to fall. The defenders that have to decide whether to crowd him out there OR sag off... know his range too.

As for rebounding - the reason rebounding is such a valuable skill is simple - it increases your shots at the bucket. Rebounding numbers can also be 'inflated'.

-> I KNOW you SAW - in person - how many 'zbounds' #50 got. Many / most of those were just him following his own misses...well that and him being HIM ;) 

Truth be told the last REAL rebounder that I have seen was Dennis Rodman. If we get to the point where rebounding is the last skill we need to get us over the hump - I'm sure we can find a specialist.

His defense has NOT changed - the thing that changed is -> the reffs have started laying off of him.

Last season he was getting banged with fouls that could be chalked up as a rook paying his dues.

As he continues to get comfortable out there - his stats will pick up too. 

Reffs are human (for the most part) ... even AS a rookie - Ja is getting a whole lot of benefit of the doubt calls that are usually reserved for veterans... 

13 needs to keep balling ... everything else will fall in line.

Playing with Mike and Marc is waaaayyy different than playing with Ja 

Can you name me one PF/C who was an all-Star averaging fewer than 6 RPG?

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35 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Can you name me one PF/C who was an all-Star averaging fewer than 6 RPG?

nope.

but I bet I could show you how to save a buncha money on your car insurance.

🤣

edit : Welcome Back!

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37 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Are you saying Jaren will be the first PF/C verging fewer than 5 RPG to be an all-star or are you just saying you don’t care if he isn’t rebounding?

Marc Gasol - last time he was an all star was in 2017

2016-2017 : 19.5 pts, 6.3 rebs

He'll probably get to 6+ sooner than later

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38 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Can you name me one PF/C who was an all-Star averaging fewer than 6 RPG?

Can you name me one player on the Toronto Raptors championship team that is named Stephen Curry?

No?

Okay i won.

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Are people still gonna say that the Grizzlies get ignored when Ja ends up being top 5 in fan voting for guards every year?

Our team just wasn't that entertaining to the average fan, the most exciting guy was the defensive specialist and we had zero elite players, not a conspiracy

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3 minutes ago, ItIsWhatItIs said:

Are people still gonna say that the Grizzlies get ignored when Ja ends up being top 5 in fan voting for guards every year?

Our team just wasn't that entertaining to the average fan, the most exciting guy was the defensive specialist and we had zero elite players, not a conspiracy

The grizzlies were ignored because they weren't flashy, not because they were the grizzlies, although had mike played on the lakers during his career, he would have been an allstar.

Also, i remember that the grizzlies consistently drew higher ratings in the playoffs than New Orelans or Portland, so not sure if people didnt like the way the grizzlies played.

The grizzlies were the antiheros of the disaffected fans. People loved when the smallmarket grizz beat the high-powered teams.

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Mike's best statistical years were, unfortunately, at the tail end of the Grit'N'Grind era where the team wasn't good enough to justify giving an All-Star selection to a guy most of the national public wasn't used to watching on their TVs

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

Are you saying Jaren will be the first PF/C verging fewer than 5 RPG to be an all-star or are you just saying you don’t care if he isn’t rebounding?

Of course i wish he rebounded more but as long as he is killing it defensively and offensively i don't care.   

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Of course i wish he rebounded more but as long as he is killing it defensively and offensively i don't care.   

Some people just dont get it

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