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2020 draft class, well, kind of sucks

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I can't tell.

Not a big fan of "most" of the guys at the top like RJ Hampton, LaMelo Ball, and Cole Anthony. Still on the fence about Anthony Edwards, Nico Mannion and some of the other top guys.

James Wiseman looked good.

There are some "sleeper" types that should be nice.  Some who have already moved up like Tyrese Haliburton.

Although it looks deep where you can get the same guy at 5, 10, 15, 25, and 40.

It also looks "deep" in that I have done a couple of 2 round internal big boards and I still kinda had names left over/left out.

Zion Williamson probably wins the Rookie of the Year award next year, but still....

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Is it just me or does it seem every year people start saying the draft sucks about this time of year? 

Last year it was Zion or no one in the draft. The year before the draft was supposed to be terrible with Ayton going #1 and Bagley being the only other decent player.

People overreact to draft expectations every year around this time. These are 18-19 year old kids. They will develop. They will get better. It's the underlying talent and skills you want to see not the finished product at this time of year. I believe there will be a lot of good to great NBA players in this draft who will contribute in the NBA for years to come. 

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5 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Is it just me or does it seem every year people start saying the draft sucks about this time of year? 

Last year it was Zion or no one in the draft. The year before the draft was supposed to be terrible with Ayton going #1 and Bagley being the only other decent player.

People overreact to draft expectations every year around this time. These are 18-19 year old kids. They will develop. They will get better. It's the underlying talent and skills you want to see not the finished product at this time of year. I believe there will be a lot of good to great NBA players in this draft who will contribute in the NBA for years to come. 

People havent adjusted to the fact that you will rarely if ever see a handful of ready to go stars at the top of a draft anymore. Years like 2003, 2009, 2018 will just be outliers from this point on. Most years you will have 2 or 3 ready to go productive players and a bunch of maybes to pick from. Maybe the one and done rule going away will change some things cause now you dont have to see them suck in college for a year before you pick them. Wont make the quality any better though.

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14 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

I can't tell.

Not a big fan of "most" of the guys at the top like RJ Hampton, LaMelo Ball, and Cole Anthony. Still on the fence about Anthony Edwards, Nico Mannion and some of the other top guys.

James Wiseman looked good.

There are some "sleeper" types that should be nice.  Some who have already moved up like Tyrese Haliburton.

Although it looks deep where you can get the same guy at 5, 10, 15, 25, and 40.

It also looks "deep" in that I have done a couple of 2 round internal big boards and I still kinda had names left over/left out.

Zion Williamson probably wins the Rookie of the Year award next year, but still....

Are you expecting for Zion to be out all season?

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1 minute ago, chipc3 said:

Is it just me or does it seem every year people start saying the draft sucks about this time of year? 

Last year it was Zion or no one in the draft. The year before the draft was supposed to be terrible with Ayton going #1 and Bagley being the only other decent player.

People overreact to draft expectations every year around this time. These are 18-19 year old kids. They will develop. They will get better. It's the underlying talent and skills you want to see not the finished product at this time of year. I believe there will be a lot of good to great NBA players in this draft who will contribute in the NBA for years to come. 

I think you are right.  FO types and scouts don't like putting their jobs on the line every season/off-season so they say "this draft sucks" about like, every draft.  Or they say, "there are no superstars in this draft".  

2018 wasn't the draft "most" thought it was.  If it were Luka would have gone 1, with Trae 2, and then Ayton and Jaren rounding out the top 4 (probably).  

2019 was good.  I guess.  We got Ja and Clarke so it was really good for us.  Zion might not be the guy most thought he would be.  So, can you have a GREAT draft with a potential all-time MEGA BUST at the top?  I had those 3 mocked (big boarded?) at 1-4-10 so at least I did my OWN homework.  Not saying it was RIGHT....

This draft looks OK, especially in terms of DEPTH.  Lots of names, and intriguing players.

But I think that I would have Wiseman, Edwards, Tinkle, Tyrese Haliburton, and Markus Howard as half of my top 10.  

I also like some of the other Memphis Tigers like Alex Lomax, Achiuwa, and DJ Jeffries.  

On average, I think teams should try to find shooters AND go after big men.

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9 minutes ago, Dwash said:

People havent adjusted to the fact that you will rarely if ever see a handful of ready to go stars at the top of a draft anymore. Years like 2003, 2009, 2018 will just be outliers from this point on. Most years you will have 2 or 3 ready to go productive players and a bunch of maybes to pick from. Maybe the one and done rule going away will change some things cause now you dont have to see them suck in college for a year before you pick them. Wont make the quality any better though.

What about 2016? That draft had Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Jaylen Brown, Buddy Hield, Donatis Sabonis and Pascal Siakam? 

What about 2015 with Kristap Porzingis, Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell and Devin Booker? 

What about 2014 with Zach Levine, Aaron Gordon, Joel Embiid and Andrew Wiggins? 

Every draft has 2-3 players who are elite players. There are only 24 spots each year for all-stars so that averages about 2 All-Stars per draft (assuming 12 year careers for elite players). There are at least 3 players in most drafts who could be an all-star if the situation is right. 

I suspect when we look back a few years at this draft we will find 3-4 players capable of becoming all-stars and another 10-12 who have decent careers. 

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15 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

What about 2016? That draft had Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Jaylen Brown, Buddy Hield, Donatis Sabonis and Pascal Siakam? 

What about 2015 with Kristap Porzingis, Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell and Devin Booker? 

What about 2014 with Zach Levine, Aaron Gordon, Joel Embiid and Andrew Wiggins? 

Every draft has 2-3 players who are elite players. There are only 24 spots each year for all-stars so that averages about 2 All-Stars per draft (assuming 12 year careers for elite players). There are at least 3 players in most drafts who could be an all-star if the situation is right. 

I suspect when we look back a few years at this draft we will find 3-4 players capable of becoming all-stars and another 10-12 who have decent careers. 

I was moreso referring to the predraft disposition about the draft that leads to people calling them "weak."  They are basically calling them weak when they dont see more than 1 or 2 guys who look ready be pretty good as a rookie.

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41 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I was moreso referring to the predraft disposition about the draft that leads to people calling them "weak."  They are basically calling them weak when they dont see more than 1 or 2 guys who look ready be pretty good as a rookie.

That I can understand. It goes back to our discussion earlier about how those mock draft websites don't know what they are talking about. 

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Each draft is different and each draft is different in DIFFERENT ways.

So even if you LEARN from draft history that might not necessarily matter.

I am thinking that this draft might resemble the David Robinson draft.   OR the 2000 draft.

Teams might just wanna go after skill set/talent/polish/fit/pedigree this time.  There are some guys worth reaching for but it is gonna be hard to figure out who those guys are.

... is the draft DEEP?  Well, considering that 2 or 3 teams (maybe up to 5ish) are out-right tanking suggests that the draft might be really good at the VERY TOP.  Then, since I don't see any great Iggy trades in the works (although maybe we can finally keep a secret for once) suggests that the BACK END of the draft (or at least the end of the mid/late first round) is fairly good.

Not that teams are gonna figure it out 100%, but the potential is there.

If teams "learned" from the past couple of drafts then they are gonna go out and try to find the "next" Luka or Ja or Jaren or Brandon Clarke.  But, I don't think those guys are there.  I think I would look at the top/favorite ARCHETYPES then fade the HYPE GUY and go after the SLEEPER/MONEYBALL guy within that same archetype.

... if Zion doesn't play at all this season (or he does play but looks sluggish coming out of the gate) then teams are gonna be down on Zion-type archetypes.  Maybe that would make me BULLISH on Zion types (poor man's less athletic Zions) if I could get one late or trade down for one.

Mitch Rob/Mo Bamba is STILL a good archetype for "today's Brave New NBA" even though those two haven't really panned out yet.  Tall, high-volume 3 point shooters on the wing is another good archetype even though those types haven't lit it up yet (at least from the last two drafts).  Duncan Robinson might have been an "archetype guy" from the draft a couple of years ago.  Or, was he a rookie LAST YEAR?  

Now if you are starting a rebuild and think that you need to go after your LEAD GUARD/PLAY MAKER then I think you are right.  BUT, I think those types are a bit overrated (Cole, RJ Hampton, Mannion, LaMelo).  

In terms of contrarian value, I would have Alex Lomax as the utility play maker sleeper pick in this draft over maybe Cassius Winston.  Peyton Pritchard might be an IDEAL long-term backup-point guard type.  Probably an archetype you would rather DRAFT than over-pay for in free agency.

Overall, this draft is probably gonna be HALF as good as we think it is -- or TWICE as good.

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Just now, Grizzled Vet said:

 

wow, we posted this at the same time.

Of course, I have Wiseman at 3 in my latest internal big board that I scribbled in my journal last night.  I have Tres Tinkle at 1 and Tyrese Haliburton at 2.  

Should I post the REST of my internal Gonzo Mother of All Big Boards 1.0?  BOTH ROUNDS?  Then again, if I do, then it wouldn't be an INTERNAL big board would it???

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I see some value picks in the 2nd round mocks.  Kaleb Wesson at tOSU would certainly be one.

He already passes the NBA "look test."

 

Kaleb+Wesson+Ten+Super+Saturday+Ohio+Sta

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11 minutes ago, bhoyal said:

I see some value picks in the 2nd round mocks.  Kaleb Wesson at tOSU would certainly be one.

He already passes the NBA "look test."

 

Kaleb+Wesson+Ten+Super+Saturday+Ohio+Sta

... 'bout to raise you a 'Malcolm Dandridge' after I go get some candy at Whole Foods....

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5 hours ago, chipc3 said:

Is it just me or does it seem every year people start saying the draft sucks about this time of year? 

Last year it was Zion or no one in the draft. The year before the draft was supposed to be terrible with Ayton going #1 and Bagley being the only other decent player.

People overreact to draft expectations every year around this time. These are 18-19 year old kids. They will develop. They will get better. It's the underlying talent and skills you want to see not the finished product at this time of year. I believe there will be a lot of good to great NBA players in this draft who will contribute in the NBA for years to come. 

I don't remember that at all. I remember people saying there were 6 to 8 possible stars in that draft. Everything about the draft was how it was one of the most loaded drafts since the Lebron draft. 

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3 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I don't remember that at all. I remember people saying there were 6 to 8 possible stars in that draft. Everything about the draft was how it was one of the most loaded drafts since the Lebron draft. 

I remember that around draft time suddenly everyone got great. Trae Young was down the last few months of the season. People were turning against Luka too. 

Here is the thread if you want to re-read it

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Wiseman basically saying the NCAA won't make a cent more off my name. It screws the Tigers but you know what, good for him, I'd do the same if I was in his position. 

 

 

 

Now if only someone in Memphis could convince him to forego the draft and sign directly with us as a free agent....might be the only way we can get him at this rate.

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17 minutes ago, cdp said:

Wiseman basically saying the NCAA won't make a cent more off my name. It screws the Tigers but you know what, good for him, I'd do the same if I was in his position. 

 

 

 

Now if only someone in Memphis could convince him to forego the draft and sign directly with us as a free agent....might be the only way we can get him at this rate.

I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

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37 minutes ago, cdp said:

Wiseman basically saying the NCAA won't make a cent more off my name. It screws the Tigers but you know what, good for him, I'd do the same if I was in his position. 

 

 

 

Now if only someone in Memphis could convince him to forego the draft and sign directly with us as a free agent....might be the only way we can get him at this rate.

.....if only that were legal....

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This kid has talent no doubt...I've said it before on this board that I believe there are character issues with this kid....it could be his inner circle giving him bad advice, but at end of the day it's his name and brand.   I don't like him bailing on the school and his team mates mid season, he has made a circus of this, I just want a baller and low maintenance kid...this kid will be lighting up red lights on most teams draft board, but my recommendation is to pass and take another talented kid...

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2 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

This kid has talent no doubt...I've said it before on this board that I believe there are character issues with this kid....it could be his inner circle giving him bad advice, but at end of the day it's his name and brand.   I don't like him bailing on the school and his team mates mid season, he has made a circus of this, I just want a baller and low maintenance kid...this kid will be lighting up red lights on most teams draft board, but my recommendation is to pass and take another talented kid...

What'd he do?  Knock over a liquor store or convenience store?:o

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