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GrizzTigerFan

Do we already have enough legit scorers?

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Credit this question to a discussion with @Dwash  (paraphrasing)   Who initially asked the question do we have enough guys are capable of avg 14+ppg.  So far our leading scorers are

  1. Ja  -       18.4ppg  47.2FG%    .42 3P%
  2. Jaren -   14.5ppg  46.7FG%   .46 3P%
  3. Dillon -   13.4ppg  40.1FG%   .37 3P%
  4. Jonas -   12.8ppg  53.1 FG%     .33 3P%
  5. Brandon - 12.3ppg   64.6FG%   .50  3P%

Key note is that NONE of them are avg over 27.2mpg.     So it's pretty easy to imagine that if they all were around 30mpg they could avg 14ppg+.         Jonas and Jaren are doing what they do in the most limited amount of time (23m and 22mpg).  While Ja is avg the most of the 5 at 27mpg.    Crowder is the high man minutes-wise with 30mpg but only avg 9.5ppg.    The fact that all those guys appear to be legit scoring options does give credence to the notion that one of them should come off the bench.   

Of the rest of the guys that have potential to be future part of the team:  Who has potential to join those guys as another 14+ppg scorer? 

Kyle (7.5ppg),  Tyus (5.9ppg), Marko (5.8ppg)   DeAnthony (4.2ppg) Bruno (3.9ppg), Grayson (7.4ppg) and Josh?  

If we already have the developing players that could/can be +14ppg  then why should we overpay for a 2nd/3rd tier Free Agent scorer?   

Do you all think that any of our Top 5 scorers are all legit capable of being consistently those type of scorers?  

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The Grizzlies are still feeling out the entire roster to find who they want to keep moving forward and who will be allowed to pursue their careers in other locations. The team needs better players in all but a few spots. 

The team is very short on reliable three point shooters but they are being given the green light to try and become more comfortable taking the three. 

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Josh or Jae I guess are the most likely two to be a legit scorer. If either become more efficient, then they are very close. Kyle will probably never score that much, but that's not his game. Tyus, Marko, Bruno, Melton are all role players, so I wouldn't expect them to. Grayson does have a chance. Physical tools are there, pretty good looking jumper, just has to gain confidence and consistency. 

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2 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

Josh or Jae I guess are the most likely two to be a legit scorer. If either become more efficient, then they are very close. Kyle will probably never score that much, but that's not his game. Tyus, Marko, Bruno, Melton are all role players, so I wouldn't expect them to. Grayson does have a chance. Physical tools are there, pretty good looking jumper, just has to gain confidence and consistency. 

I see Bruno and Melton being better than Allen, Tyus and Guduric. 

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55 minutes ago, LuvThem Grizzlies said:

I see Bruno and Melton being better than Allen, Tyus and Guduric. 

Even if they are "better," and I agree that they probably are, doesn't mean they will be big time scorers. Think PJ Tucker, Joe Ingles, Norman Powell, etc. None of those guys have averaged more than 14 PPG, but are still valuable role players. That's kind of their ceiling in my opinion. 

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Jonas and Clarke being in your top five should answer your question 

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30 minutes ago, Allen said:

Jonas and Clarke being in your top five should answer your question 

Early on we were discussing overpaying for FA in hopes that they would be legit scoring options.    Now looking at our own guys scoring ability/averages.   I am beginning to think it may be better to just continue building thru draft and continue developing our own guys.   

In free agency only guys i would target now are True Center (should be cheap now) and potential shooters.   Otherwise continue developing our own guys as scorers and take on bad contracts. 

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I guess we got enough scorers to eventually "compete" with some experience, but Im still in the camp of ensuring that we lock down a third stud talent in this draft. Jonas is way to awkward of a fit and Dillon is inconsisent and Im starting to see that he maybe a little ball dominant which isnt good for a 4th/5th option.

As for free agency I am now hoping that they pass on this class altogether and just try to absorb contracts for picks.  Beasley, Harris, Bodganovic and all of these other targets are one sided players that sound good now cause we need shooting but when its really time to win we will eventually grow to hate these contracts if they are at 15-20 million for some guys that play no defense.  I say wait to spend money on a good 2 sided player that we like.  Otto Porter could be a good fit for example if we draft a 2 guard this year.  Can play 3 and small ball 4. Then if that doesnt work look for good bench players on good bench contracts. That would be my plan.

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3 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I guess we got enough scorers to eventually "compete" with some experience, but Im still in the camp of ensuring that we lock down a third stud talent in this draft. Jonas is way to awkward of a fit and Dillon is inconsisent and Im starting to see that he maybe a little ball dominant which isnt good for a 4th/5th option.

As for free agency I am now hoping that they pass on this class altogether and just try to absorb contracts for picks.  Beasley, Harris, Bodganovic and all of these other targets are one sided players that sound good now cause we need shooting but when its really time to win we will eventually grow to hate these contracts if they are at 15-20 million for some guys that play no defense.  I say wait to spend money on a good 2 sided player that we like. Then if that doesnt work look for good bench players on good bench contracts. That would be my plan.

I agree.   To be honest with how capable Ja is showing to be on offense i am not as pressed to overpay a 1 dimensional shooter/scorer.    Especially considering how bad Ja is on defense.   I think he needs to be paired with a 2way SG that can defend the tougher guard on most nights.  Cuz right now that aint in Ja's wheel house.       Don't want to pair him with Beasley, or Bod that backcourt would be bleeding points.    Harris is interesting but maybe we can develop DeAnthony to be that for much cheaper rate.  

Dillon would ultimately be better as ball dominant scorer off the bench.    Maybe he and Jonas could be the guys to hold second unit down.     Then move Brandon up to starting spot because his scoring efficiency is bordering on insane.   No reason to keep the lid on this guy.  

 Plus Jaren + Brandon is a much better backline to protect against Ja bad perimeter defense than Jonas.     Josh (in theory) would be a nice starter in that situation too because he can pass and slash too. 

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20 minutes ago, Dwash said:

I guess we got enough scorers to eventually "compete" with some experience, but Im still in the camp of ensuring that we lock down a third stud talent in this draft. Jonas is way to awkward of a fit and Dillon is inconsisent and Im starting to see that he maybe a little ball dominant which isnt good for a 4th/5th option.

As for free agency I am now hoping that they pass on this class altogether and just try to absorb contracts for picks.  Beasley, Harris, Bodganovic and all of these other targets are one sided players that sound good now cause we need shooting but when its really time to win we will eventually grow to hate these contracts if they are at 15-20 million for some guys that play no defense.  I say wait to spend money on a good 2 sided player that we like.  Otto Porter could be a good fit for example if we draft a 2 guard this year.  Can play 3 and small ball 4. Then if that doesnt work look for good bench players on good bench contracts. That would be my plan.

It’s a bad free agent class and maybe also a BAD draft class.  

Not the year to go “all in” on Tanking or Free Agency.

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7 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Credit this question to a discussion with @Dwash  (paraphrasing)   Who initially asked the question do we have enough guys are capable of avg 14+ppg.  So far our leading scorers are

  1. Ja  -       18.4ppg  47.2FG%    .42 3P%
  2. Jaren -   14.5ppg  46.7FG%   .46 3P%
  3. Dillon -   13.4ppg  40.1FG%   .37 3P%
  4. Jonas -   12.8ppg  53.1 FG%     .33 3P%
  5. Brandon - 12.3ppg   64.6FG%   .50  3P%

Key note is that NONE of them are avg over 27.2mpg.     So it's pretty easy to imagine that if they all were around 30mpg they could avg 14ppg+.         Jonas and Jaren are doing what they do in the most limited amount of time (23m and 22mpg).  While Ja is avg the most of the 5 at 27mpg.    Crowder is the high man minutes-wise with 30mpg but only avg 9.5ppg.    The fact that all those guys appear to be legit scoring options does give credence to the notion that one of them should come off the bench.   

Of the rest of the guys that have potential to be future part of the team:  Who has potential to join those guys as another 14+ppg scorer? 

Kyle (7.5ppg),  Tyus (5.9ppg), Marko (5.8ppg)   DeAnthony (4.2ppg) Bruno (3.9ppg), Grayson (7.4ppg) and Josh?  

If we already have the developing players that could/can be +14ppg  then why should we overpay for a 2nd/3rd tier Free Agent scorer?   

Do you all think that any of our Top 5 scorers are all legit capable of being consistently those type of scorers?  

I will Love to see and hope I see it a 30mpg player 

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4 hours ago, Allen said:

Jonas and Clarke being in your top five should answer your question 

Maybe I'm being slow, but what do you mean by this?  Are you saying that's good or bad?

I know Jonas could score more with higher usage, but that might just mean someone else's scoring goes down.  Clarke looks great, but as a rookie I'm not sure about increasing his share of the scoring load.  Is his level of play sustainable?  I hope so. 

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4 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

I agree.   To be honest with how capable Ja is showing to be on offense i am not as pressed to overpay a 1 dimensional shooter/scorer.    Especially considering how bad Ja is on defense.   I think he needs to be paired with a 2way SG that can defend the tougher guard on most nights.  Cuz right now that aint in Ja's wheel house.       Don't want to pair him with Beasley, or Bod that backcourt would be bleeding points.    Harris is interesting but maybe we can develop DeAnthony to be that for much cheaper rate.  

Dillon would ultimately be better as ball dominant scorer off the bench.    Maybe he and Jonas could be the guys to hold second unit down.     Then move Brandon up to starting spot because his scoring efficiency is bordering on insane.   No reason to keep the lid on this guy.  

 Plus Jaren + Brandon is a much better backline to protect against Ja bad perimeter defense than Jonas.     Josh (in theory) would be a nice starter in that situation too because he can pass and slash too. 

Long term, maybe we need Josh Jackson and Clarke on the wing for defense, length, scoring, and rebounding.  

If I had to build a Brave New NBA starting five it would look something like Ja/Josh/Clarke/Jaren/Jonas.  

Our bench mob “death lineup” would include Slo Mo in a point forward role, Dillon as the designated scorer, and Bruno (our third big) as our inside big/5 with some combination of the rest of our roster at the other two spots.  

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21 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

It’s a bad free agent class and maybe also a BAD draft class.  

Not the year to go “all in” on Tanking or Free Agency.

Clearly you aren't a season ticket holder. 

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3 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Clearly you aren't a season ticket holder. 

NO. But I know people.

I have already been to one exhibition game and two regular season games this season.

 

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6 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

NO. But I know people.

I have already been to one exhibition game and two regular season games this season.

It's a little different when you have to write the check to watch a team consistently tanking. 

I have been a season ticket holder from day 1. If I have to sit through a bad season to get a top pick and turn things around that is acceptable. If we are talking about sitting thru numerous bad seasons to get the third piece of the puzzle while the clock is ticking on the first piece becoming a free agent then I am against that strategy. 

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10 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

It's a little different when you have to write the check to watch a team consistently tanking. 

I have been a season ticket holder from day 1. If I have to sit through a bad season to get a top pick and turn things around that is acceptable. If we are talking about sitting thru numerous bad seasons to get the third piece of the puzzle while the clock is ticking on the first piece becoming a free agent then I am against that strategy. 

Then no, we don't have ALPHA SCORER 1a.

We have our Alpha Option 1 with Ja as our quarterback then lots of good options.

BPA could yield us a scorer, a secondary play maker, or a big man in the draft (if we keep our pick).

First, I would like to see us throw out a Ja/Josh/Clarke/Jaren/Jonas rotation.  Lots of length and scoring potential every where.

I would then try to move Iggy and Jae.  Iggy's trade stock might not go up.  Maybe it is even going DOWN.  Jae Crowder can get us some marginal picks/cash.  

If we convey then we can afford to lay off the free agents and just do our homework for the 2021 draft.  If we KEEP our 2020 first rounder then it becomes PLAYOFFS OR BUST -- then you spend more in free agency.  

If I were running the team AND forking over money for season tickets, I would try to WIN (but play the youngsters moderate minutes and trade Iggy/Jae) with eyes on the playoffs.  I think TOP FOUR OR CONVEY is our best strategy.  Send Boston a pick in the 10-15 range.  If we DO NOT make the playoffs but end up moving into the top 4 then you have a fifty percent shot at getting James Wiseman or Anthony Edwards.  I DO NOT want to give Boston a pick at 7 or 8.  BUT, I kinda don't want a pick at 5 or 6 either.  AND the 2021 draft might be better anyway (especially for wings).  I really, really, really don't want to go into 2020-2021 WITHOUT a 1st round pick.  Just too much can go wrong.  We could help Boston win the lottery which would not be a good look for us.

Either way I think we will know by the All Star Break if we are gonna try to contend for a playoff spot OR semi-tank (rest our top guys).

By the All Star Break we will also find out if any of these fab frosh 1-and-Done's break out (maybe they break DOWN).  Then our draft board will get a little clearer.  

I agree, perma-tanking isn't fun to watch on TV (can't even imagine watching it in person 41 nights a year).  Perma-mediocrity ain't great either.  Or even being a fun, young, rising contending team but being "one piece short".  Thankfully, we have at least one alpha building block, some interesting youngsters on rookie deals, and a scouting department/FO that is in "draft night heat check mode".  The last 3 drafts have featured us getting Dillon Brooks, Jaren, Ja, and Clarke.  So, we are potentially batting over a thousand....

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First, I don't care about your draft board. It hasn't been close to accurate on either the players talents or the order of the players being drafted. Please stop peddling your draft board into every conversation as if it means anything. It doesn't especially not when discussing multi year tank jobs. 

Second, your comment was that you are hoping the team conveys the pick to Boston this summer (i.e. not finish in the bottom 6) so the team can tank next season instead. This is a strategy that I as a season ticket holder am vehemently opposed to. I believe it is more important to get a star potential player this summer to add to Ja, Jaren, Dillon and Brandon. The team can lose games with a young team for only so long before fans start tuning out the team.

By the way, the team isn't batting 1000 since they already waived Ivan Rabb who was drafted in the same draft (and with an earlier pick) as Dillon Brooks. 

As you should be aware of by now, the contract with the city expires in 2027 and has a decreasing buy out clause every year between now and then. To have a lottery bound team consistently over the next 2-3 years is bad enough but to attempt to tank in 2020-21 after consecutive seasons of lottery bound teams would damage the attendance to a point the team could be moved possibly. At worst it would raise the conversation nationally that the team is going to move. 

It is my humble opinion as someone who pays to watch the team play in person, rather than on TV or not at all, I would prefer the team lose as much as possible this season, get a third super talent and make a run next season and moving forward so Jaren and Dillon and others will want to remain here rather than take their talents to South Beach or somewhere else.  

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15 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

First, I don't care about your draft board. It hasn't been close to accurate on either the players talents or the order of the players being drafted. Please stop peddling your draft board into every conversation as if it means anything. It doesn't especially not when discussing multi year tank jobs. 

Second, your comment was that you are hoping the team conveys the pick to Boston this summer (i.e. not finish in the bottom 6) so the team can tank next season instead. This is a strategy that I as a season ticket holder am vehemently opposed to. I believe it is more important to get a star potential player this summer to add to Ja, Jaren, Dillon and Brandon. The team can lose games with a young team for only so long before fans start tuning out the team.

By the way, the team isn't batting 1000 since they already waived Ivan Rabb who was drafted in the same draft (and with an earlier pick) as Dillon Brooks. 

As you should be aware of by now, the contract with the city expires in 2027 and has a decreasing buy out clause every year between now and then. To have a lottery bound team consistently over the next 2-3 years is bad enough but to attempt to tank in 2020-21 after consecutive seasons of lottery bound teams would damage the attendance to a point the team could be moved possibly. At worst it would raise the conversation nationally that the team is going to move. 

It is my humble opinion as someone who pays to watch the team play in person, rather than on TV or not at all, I would prefer the team lose as much as possible this season, get a third super talent and make a run next season and moving forward so Jaren and Dillon and others will want to remain here rather than take their talents to South Beach or somewhere else.  

It's a long post....but i must say ....i agree with every single word.

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After watching Denver play I'd say we have about half the scorers Denver has, I think if our players develop well and Josh Jackson gamble pays off, we are still a dynamic wing scorer away... would love to see an athletic 3 over 6'8 that's not a liability on defense who can get hot on offense join the team in off season 

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Just now, Ace-is-high said:

After watching Denver play I'd say we have about half the scorers Denver has, I think if our players develop well and Josh Jackson gamble pays off, we are still a dynamic wing scorer away... would love to see an athletic 3 over 6'8 that's not a liability on defense who can get hot on offense join the team in off season 

Any ideas on who fits that description? 

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5 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Any ideas on who fits that description? 

Precious Achuwie, maybe the Israel prospect who's in everyone's top 6 in draft mocks

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