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chipc3

Memphis Grizzlies @ Charlotte Hornets - 11/13/19

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Grizzlies Gametime Discussion 

Wednesday, November 13, 6 pm CT

Location: Spectrum Center, Charlotte, NC

Television: NBALP | Fox Sports South

Memphis Radio: 92.9FM | 680AM

Promotions:

Grizz Social: iTunes Google Play Facebook Twitter Google+ Instagram Pinterest Snapchat Flickr YouTube LinkedIn


Grizzlies Starting 5

Ja Morant Dillon Brooks Jae Crowder Jaren Jackson Jr Jonas Valanciunas
1629630.png 1628415.png 203109.png 1628991.png 202685.png

Hornets Starting 5

Terry Rozier Dwayne Bacon Miles Bridges P J Washington Cody Zeller
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Benches

Memphis: Grayson Allen (INJ), Kyle Anderson, Bruno Caboclo, Brandon Clarke, Marco Guduric, Solomon Hill, Tyus Jones, John Konchar (2), De'Anthony Melton, Yuta Watanabe (2)

Charlotte: Nicholas Batum, Bismack Biyombo, Robert Franks, Devonte Graham, Willy Hernangomez, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Caleb Martin, Coby Martin, Jalen McDaniels, Malik Monk, Kobi Simmons, Marvin Williams 

Grizzlies: Preview | Recap | News | Roster | Stats | Schedule | Photos | Video | Tickets | Promotions | Watch Parties

Hornets: Preview | Recap | News | Roster | Stats | Schedule | Photos | Video | Tickets

Depth Charts: CBS | ESPN | Yahoo

Injuries: CBS | ESPN | FOX | Yahoo

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Keen to see how two of my trade machine targets from the Marc proposals will go, Miles Bridges and Malik Monk.

Bridges has been doing quite well, but I think he's been playing a fair bit @ PF.

He was Jaren's teammate, just to remind anyone who doesn't know/remember.

Monk has been very up and down, mostly down.

I suppose in the retrospectroscope, Marc for JV has been pretty OK, still I wonder how it would be if it was Miles we got as the prize.

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1 hour ago, Subliminal said:

Need to be careful and try not to win too many now

23 wins 

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2 hours ago, Subliminal said:

Need to be careful and try not to win too many now

On the one hand getting beaten by the Hornets will be very demoralising on the other keeping the pick this year seems like by far the best thing for the future and we don't want to get too far ahead when it's looking like the Knicks are a surefire 30th, doesn't give much room to play with to guarantee the pick. 

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18 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

I know it’s a typo but I really like the idea of Bismark Biyombo.

ZbcOFtuylYKSfL983Gn556A4BLPx-ohNA-AkqLJU

They should pair him with Admiral Schofield and go invade Ruthenia or something.

HA HA HA .... I was just thinking about Admiral Schofield when I saw this picture.

Oh and how rude of me, let me translate the first part of my post for you:

JA JA JA ....

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9 hours ago, Subliminal said:

Need to be careful and try not to win too many now

Dunno. 

Don't see us OUT-TANKING the Knicks. They were BUILT for this.

Not even exactly sure who I really WANT in the draft.  I like Wiseman but is that just a homer pick?  We already have FOUR bigs who can play NOW, and these guys need minutes/touches/shots (Jaren/Jonas/Clarke/Bruno).  On the other hand, Wiseman looks like a premier lob threat (great for Ja!), a really good shot blocker, and a primary rebounder type.  

After that: maybe we should try to either trade UP or trade DOWN.  Pretty good depth in the draft for 3rd/4th/5th option types (player types that we actually NEED even if we WANT another high-profile, flashy player).

With Ja, Jaren, Jonas, Dillon, Clarke, and our other guys commanding so many minutes, touches, shots we could actually get more value out of savvy 2nd round picks than "mediocre" lottery picks.  Lots of lotto picks are value-traps (given the salary and expectations) even if the stats look solid.

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The Grizzlies don't HAVE to be in the bottom as long as they win the lottery. Everything depends on the lottery as far as getting the player needed to become a serious contender in the future. Remember that last season the Grizzlies had a greater chance of losing the pick than getting Ja Morant. 

The problem is there aren't many players that deserve to be a top pick AND fill a hole in this draft. Wiseman, Edwards and Stewart and Avdija really are the only players that move the needle for the Grizzlies. The rest of the top players are all PGs and that's a position the Grizzlies are deep at already.    

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26 minutes ago, TRE2K3 said:

They should have to tank

I think the Pelicans and Knicks have this TANK JOB on lock down.

Warriors are tanking too, but let's see if they go FULL TANK or if the TANK is only half-full.  

Wiz are worse than us too.  With a couple of other teams just as bad, with several teams entering the chat.  I can see the Spurs pulling off the tank too.  That team is a mess.  Coach Pop is a nostalgia act at this point.

If the season ended today, the odds are that we convey the 7th pick in the draft to Boston.

So, Deni at 6 in Memphis or Deni at 7 in Boston.  

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47 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

The Grizzlies don't HAVE to be in the bottom as long as they win the lottery. Everything depends on the lottery as far as getting the player needed to become a serious contender in the future. Remember that last season the Grizzlies had a greater chance of losing the pick than getting Ja Morant. 

The problem is there aren't many players that deserve to be a top pick AND fill a hole in this draft. Wiseman, Edwards and Stewart and Avdija really are the only players that move the needle for the Grizzlies. The rest of the top players are all PGs and that's a position the Grizzlies are deep at already.    

And, other than LaMelo Ball they are all kinda on the shorter side.  RJ Hampton is a bit taller but he is skinny not too strong and is also more of a combo guard.  

Josh Green moved up my big board. He's a guy to keep an eye on.  Looks like he would fill a need AND be worth a high pick any way.  

FIT WISE we need a tall(ish) shooting guard who can hit the 3, space the floor, high efficiency/moderate usage/low maintenance, defend, rebound a bit, and provide secondary play making/ball handling/passing.  That's a tall order though.  You are basically trying to find the Brandon Clarke of shooting guards.  And, I think that archetype moves up in the draft.  

On the flip side, looks like a decently deep draft, so if we get picks back in an Iggy trade we could still fill some holds (wing depth, shooting, fifth big man).  

2021 also looks great.  Especially at the top where wings dominate (plus Evan Mobley who is a 7 footer who can shoot/score).  

Our "rebuild" has two more drafts left.  Either the 2020 draft or 2021 and the DOUBLE draft (maybe 2022 or 2023).  If we can't find a utility player who is a great fit with our upcoming second rounders we need to think about stashing some guys overseas.  

We can't really afford to load up on guys with duplicated skill sets -- especially guys who lean more towards low efficiency/high usage/high maintenance (this might apply to Cole Anthony, Anthony Edwards, and LaMelo Ball but I am just spit-balling here).

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2 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

Dunno. 

Don't see us OUT-TANKING the Knicks. They were BUILT for this.

Not even exactly sure who I really WANT in the draft.  I like Wiseman but is that just a homer pick?  We already have FOUR bigs who can play NOW, and these guys need minutes/touches/shots (Jaren/Jonas/Clarke/Bruno).  On the other hand, Wiseman looks like a premier lob threat (great for Ja!), a really good shot blocker, and a primary rebounder type.  

After that: maybe we should try to either trade UP or trade DOWN.  Pretty good depth in the draft for 3rd/4th/5th option types (player types that we actually NEED even if we WANT another high-profile, flashy player).

With Ja, Jaren, Jonas, Dillon, Clarke, and our other guys commanding so many minutes, touches, shots we could actually get more value out of savvy 2nd round picks than "mediocre" lottery picks.  Lots of lotto picks are value-traps (given the salary and expectations) even if the stats look solid.

I may be totally off base here but I don't see Bruno, Jonas or Brandon being a reason NOT to draft Wiseman. I believe a combination of Jackson and Wiseman would be earth shattering with Ja as the PG. Wings would be lining up to sign on with the Grizzlies with that lineup. 

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

I may be totally off base here but I don't see Bruno, Jonas or Brandon being a reason NOT to draft Wiseman. I believe a combination of Jackson and Wiseman would be earth shattering with Ja as the PG. Wings would be lining up to sign on with the Grizzlies with that lineup. 

Clarke is a baller.  He should start somewhere down the line.  Maybe soon.  MAYBE at small forward.  Bruno is a good third big maybe an IDEAL fourth big in the right system.  Jonas is good, but runs hot/cold on offense, cold (on defense) on a good day, with his rebounding almost always reporting for duty.

Wiseman or Bust in the Draft -- but, you know, not sure I would throw away an entire season to get a 20%ish chance of getting him (especially since it means we miss out on the 2021 draft which could be better TOP SHELF DRAFT).

Yeah, Wiseman paired with Jaren along with a big perimeter trio of Ja, Dillon, and Clarke could be a real game changer.  Maybe the biggest since the Spurs went Full Big with Tim Duncan and David Robinson.

We are actually in the 7th spot now and there is a murders' row of tankers ahead (below?) us.  

There might be worse things than conveying a pick in the 8 to 10 range to Boston then beginning a 2021 Big Board ASAP to go after your final puzzle pieces.  Our PRIMARY core might already be set with Ja/Jaren/Clarke and we might have two long-term SECONDARY core guys in Jonas and Dillon.  Maybe we can afford to wait another year.  

If we wind up at 2 or 3 with Cole Anthony and Anthony Edwards maybe you try to trade up to 1 to take James Wiseman.  Possible.  OR, you trade down a bit to fill more than one need.  

If we don't get top 3 AND aren't able to convey, then whoever we take at 4-6 might be an overpay and may not even be a great fit.  That might be no man's land for us.

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35 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

Clarke is a baller.  He should start somewhere down the line.  Maybe soon.  MAYBE at small forward.  Bruno is a good third big maybe an IDEAL fourth big in the right system.  Jonas is good, but runs hot/cold on offense, cold (on defense) on a good day, with his rebounding almost always reporting for duty.

Wiseman or Bust in the Draft -- but, you know, not sure I would throw away an entire season to get a 20%ish chance of getting him (especially since it means we miss out on the 2021 draft which could be better TOP SHELF DRAFT).

Yeah, Wiseman paired with Jaren along with a big perimeter trio of Ja, Dillon, and Clarke could be a real game changer.  Maybe the biggest since the Spurs went Full Big with Tim Duncan and David Robinson.

We are actually in the 7th spot now and there is a murders' row of tankers ahead (below?) us.  

There might be worse things than conveying a pick in the 8 to 10 range to Boston then beginning a 2021 Big Board ASAP to go after your final puzzle pieces.  Our PRIMARY core might already be set with Ja/Jaren/Clarke and we might have two long-term SECONDARY core guys in Jonas and Dillon.  Maybe we can afford to wait another year.  

If we wind up at 2 or 3 with Cole Anthony and Anthony Edwards maybe you try to trade up to 1 to take James Wiseman.  Possible.  OR, you trade down a bit to fill more than one need.  

If we don't get top 3 AND aren't able to convey, then whoever we take at 4-6 might be an overpay and may not even be a great fit.  That might be no man's land for us.

JJJ kinda ran cold then hot then...who knows...JA was hot now cold, he will get hot again...Clarke is 6'7....small frame, not sure of his wing span...he is not a 5, he will get eaten alive by the BIGs on good teams that outweigh him by 50 pounds and 5 inches...he is a 3 or 4, we need to start putting him in those roles...not sure about JJJ in the 5, he doesn't really "seem" to like the pounding....unless we decide to load management him or his body will wear down...

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11 hours ago, FrenchGrizzlies said:

Way too early on my opinion to tank. Play another 20 games and see where is the team. Then we can go for 5-45 in second parts if necessary.

REALLY????  I hope your kidding on the tanking?  Don't believe in the concept in building a culture when trying to lose games....half *** efforts, sitting guys versus letting them develop, play smart, desire to win from the get go...we need to hold everyone accountable to win every possession on either side of the floor...tanking, is that what Memphis is about?

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11 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

JJJ kinda ran cold then hot then...who knows...JA was hot now cold, he will get hot again...Clarke is 6'7....small frame, not sure of his wing span...he is not a 5, he will get eaten alive by the BIGs on good teams that outweigh him by 50 pounds and 5 inches...he is a 3 or 4, we need to start putting him in those roles...not sure about JJJ in the 5, he doesn't really "seem" to like the pounding....unless we decide to load management him or his body will wear down...

I also think that Clarke is somewhat undersized to be a "BIG".  Long-term, I think he and Jaren occupy the forward spots with Jonas or Bruno or Wiseman (we hit the jackpot) at the 5.

Clarke could end up being a Kawhi Leonard type.  You never know.  

Clarke doesn't have much of a wingspan either I think it is 6'7 or 6'8.  BUT he has good size, speed, athleticism for the 3 and I think he can round out his offensive game.  His mid-range game and flip shot game is on point.  He has hit some spot up 3 pointers too.  Great lob threat, too.  

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2 hours ago, Lugan Village said:

REALLY????  I hope your kidding on the tanking?  Don't believe in the concept in building a culture when trying to lose games....half *** efforts, sitting guys versus letting them develop, play smart, desire to win from the get go...we need to hold everyone accountable to win every possession on either side of the floor...tanking, is that what Memphis is about?

I agree with you. I hate tanking as well. But there is a time in the season ( as late as possible for me) where tanking may be a smart strategy. We need only another good pick + 1 good FA and on my opinion a good back up for JV to be great. 

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17 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

Clarke is a baller.  He should start somewhere down the line.  Maybe soon.  MAYBE at small forward.  Bruno is a good third big maybe an IDEAL fourth big in the right system.  Jonas is good, but runs hot/cold on offense, cold (on defense) on a good day, with his rebounding almost always reporting for duty.

Wiseman or Bust in the Draft -- but, you know, not sure I would throw away an entire season to get a 20%ish chance of getting him (especially since it means we miss out on the 2021 draft which could be better TOP SHELF DRAFT).

Yeah, Wiseman paired with Jaren along with a big perimeter trio of Ja, Dillon, and Clarke could be a real game changer.  Maybe the biggest since the Spurs went Full Big with Tim Duncan and David Robinson.

We are actually in the 7th spot now and there is a murders' row of tankers ahead (below?) us.  

There might be worse things than conveying a pick in the 8 to 10 range to Boston then beginning a 2021 Big Board ASAP to go after your final puzzle pieces.  Our PRIMARY core might already be set with Ja/Jaren/Clarke and we might have two long-term SECONDARY core guys in Jonas and Dillon.  Maybe we can afford to wait another year.  

If we wind up at 2 or 3 with Cole Anthony and Anthony Edwards maybe you try to trade up to 1 to take James Wiseman.  Possible.  OR, you trade down a bit to fill more than one need.  

If we don't get top 3 AND aren't able to convey, then whoever we take at 4-6 might be an overpay and may not even be a great fit.  That might be no man's land for us.

I'd far prefer to take a top 6 pick in this draft and one year of severe pain, than to have a season of nearly severe pain only to give up an 7-10 pick to Boston and then need another bad season to acquire a difference making wing or big in 2021. The difference for fans between finishing 7-10 and finishing 1-6 is negligible after all. Both teams will lose a ton more games than they win.  

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

I'd far prefer to take a top 6 pick in this draft and one year of severe pain, than to have a season of nearly severe pain only to give up an 7-10 pick to Boston and then need another bad season to acquire a difference making wing or big in 2021. The difference for fans between finishing 7-10 and finishing 1-6 is negligible after all. Both teams will lose a ton more games than they win.  

This. Let’s lock in our core with this draft pick. Then we can rely on free agency to fill holes as well as some of the other draft picks we have coming down the pipeline (Utah/GSW).

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