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What's wrong with Jaren?

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15 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

I thought I read on the boards last season that Marc Gasol was part of the problem and hindering JJJ's development?   He was too domineering and not speaking gently enough to the rookie when he made a mistake.

 

Maybe, just maybe, it was easier for JJJ to shine when he was playing with experienced vets like Conley, Temple, Gasol, Noah, etc and was just asked to be part of the team instead of playing with a newly formed team, new coaches, and with him expected to carry the load.

Good point

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6 hours ago, costarica2 said:

What is it with this fan base and the dawg mentality.

Gasol and Conley had non of that ?we mix them with the Grindfather and ZBO and everything when well.

People here overrated that a little bit to much Jevon Carter is a good example...sure he was a DAWG but the guy had no skills he was/is trash.

That's the thing I don't understand,  a team full of alpha males is as much of a disaster as a team with none. Every player doesn't have to be KG

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JJJ has immense potential. Stromile Swift also had Immense potential, same as O.J. Mayo. Dudes can look like stars before the NBA scouts get to them. His strengths from last year are being taken away and his shot isn’t falling from the perimeter, probably because last year he was the 3rd and sometimes 4th guy on the scouting report, this year he’s 1 or 2. 
 

I’m not saying he’s a bum, but he ain’t no KG either. He lacks that dog in him that great bigs have and the basketball IQ to take his great defensive tools and turn them into great defensive production. 
 

 

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5 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

That's the thing I don't understand,  a team full of alpha males is as much of a disaster as a team with none. Every player doesn't have to be KG

The great ones do

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1 hour ago, BigHunkALove said:

The other comment I've noticed being made that needs pulling up is (to paraphrase) we don't have anyone who can make inside passes into the paint, so we can't have Jaren in the paint.

Seriously?

Someone on this team better learn how to do this quick smart then. 

Agreed but until that person emerges do you suggest we continue to force feed turnovers because at this moment jaren can't seal? Jaren needs a midrange jumper or push hook or something because with a congested paint due to lack of floor spacing,  issues getting the ball to the post etc... you'll continue seeing the same. Also if JV is camped in the paint you have a cluster f. 

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5 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

Agreed but until that person emerges do you suggest we continue to force feed turnovers because at this moment jaren can't seal? Jaren needs a midrange jumper or push hook or something because with a congested paint due to lack of floor spacing,  issues getting the ball to the post etc... you'll continue seeing the same. Also if JV is camped in the paint you have a cluster f. 

SloMo is good at it. Actually I thought he was one of the main reasons why the wheels didn't fall off in the 3rd v Wolves.

Ja needs to improve in this area, but heck its only 6 games into his career, can't ask for too much, too soon. It'll come.

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14 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

You ever seen a team full of great one's? 

This thread was initially about JJJ. So no I haven’t seen a team with nothing but great ones. I have seen a Shaq and Kobe, KG and Paul Pierce, Rasheed Wallace Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups. I don’t see that Dawg in JJJ, I see a dude who is ok losing or winning. Ja is a different story. 

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15 hours ago, Grizzled Vet said:

I thought I read on the boards last season that Marc Gasol was part of the problem and hindering JJJ's development?   He was too domineering and not speaking gently enough to the rookie when he made a mistake.

 

Maybe, just maybe, it was easier for JJJ to shine when he was playing with experienced vets like Conley, Temple, Gasol, Noah, etc and was just asked to be part of the team instead of playing with a newly formed team, new coaches, and with him expected to carry the load.

Gasol and Noah are terrific interior passers. That's one major thing lacking this season. JV can't do this, it's not his thing.

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23 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

SloMo is good at it. Actually I thought he was one of the main reasons why the wheels didn't fall off in the 3rd v Wolves.

Ja needs to improve in this area, but heck its only 6 games into his career, can't ask for too much, too soon. It'll come.

Yeah slomo is, it's just sucks though because sometimes by the time the pass is made Jaren is called for a foul or the defender pushed him off his spot. That's why a midrange is so important for him

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26 minutes ago, King Dork said:

This thread was initially about JJJ. So no I haven’t seen a team with nothing but great ones. I have seen a Shaq and Kobe, KG and Paul Pierce, Rasheed Wallace Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups. I don’t see that Dawg in JJJ, I see a dude who is ok losing or winning. Ja is a different story. 

Have you ever seen a great player who wasn't alpha?

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17 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

Have you ever seen a great player who wasn't alpha?

Of course I have, but those guys have unmatched talent. KD is not an alpha but he’s a 6’11” Sniper. Steph isn’t an alpha but he can pull it from 40. Ray Allen wasn’t an alpha but he had the purest jump shot I’ve ever seen. Dirk wasn’t an alpha but he revolutionized the game and made stretch bigs a household thing. 
 

Jaren doesn’t have that thing that sets him apart. It was supposed to be defense but he can’t stop fouling. Without an elite skill, you need elite will. There are countless stars who aren’t great at anything but go so hard that they can’t help but put up numbers. 

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9 minutes ago, King Dork said:

Of course I have, but those guys have unmatched talent. KD is not an alpha but he’s a 6’11” Sniper. Steph isn’t an alpha but he can pull it from 40. Ray Allen wasn’t an alpha but he had the purest jump shot I’ve ever seen. Dirk wasn’t an alpha but he revolutionized the game and made stretch bigs a household thing. 
 

Jaren doesn’t have that thing that sets him apart. It was supposed to be defense but he can’t stop fouling. Without an elite skill, you need elite will. There are countless stars who aren’t great at anything but go so hard that they can’t help but put up 

 The point is that not every player on the team has to be an alpha and the team can still be successful. He can very much have the will just that it hasn't shown yet. It takes years to develop muscle memory. He could become a star based off will but to draw a conclusion on a player on his second year in the NBA and so young is a bit premature. Even if he dosen't become a star doesn't mean that he can't be a good player. It doesn't have to be this or that

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5 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

You say this today because Dillon had a good game yesterday but when he regresses to his mean standard the next game or the one after, you still gonna have him as our 3rd option?

All he can do is be a stretch4 and camp out at the perimeter? That's why Jaren is playing like crap, because that's all his current role has been. C'mon brother, have you already forgotten the SAC game or BKN game from last year, to mention a few?

Nah you misunderstood my post or i need to clarify.   I am saying within this offensive system by default Jaren is your 4th option.  Heck with the way Crowder chucks he may be the 5th.    Like @King Dork said JJJ doesn't have an elite offensive skill yet.  Which is why i am seeing that he fades into the background so easily with the Starters.     DB better shooter, Ja better scorer, and JV better post game.     So that leaves him parked in the corner or behind 3pt line in THIS offense.     Last season Jaren was the BEST postup player on the team AND we had three good interior passers (Conley, Noah, Gasol).   Now that is Jonas domain (as it should be).    

I am suggesting potentially splitting up Jonas and Jaren to help free up Jaren on offense.  I know they won't take JJJ out of starting lineup but  being focal of second unit could make it easier for him to get back into a groove.     like you pointed out earlier SloMo is best interior passer on the team and who else on 2nd unit should be the scorer??.     JJJ can't stay on the court due to early fouling if he comes off the bench fouling wouldn't be an issue.   

Once again he is still only 19y old - tons of young rookies start careers coming off bench.    I know they wont do it since he is the "Face" of the franchise and they promoted him so much.   But i think it could really help his development.   I am sick of him getting 2 quick fouls then never getting into a rhythm.    Tyus - Marko - Kyle - Bruno - Jaren lineup could be the way to get him going.    Then he still gets to play minutes with Ja.    Longterm JJJ needs to be center so i think his development should go there.   I am not a fan of Jenkins tryin to turn him into Giannis.   

I think its just too hard to have two legit bigs in a modern offense.   Jaren shouldn't just be stuck in stretch 4 position but pairing him with Jonas makes that inevitable.  

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5 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

Has Chip ever given consideration to maybe the FO directed him to make some or many of those public appearances? Probably not.

I have considered that the front office asked him to do some of the PR events both in Vegas during summer league (when he could have worked out with the coaches some and gotten a better idea of what would be expected of him this summer) and in Memphis when the coach was announced. 

I don't believe the team asked him to travel around the country hosting youth camps as the expense of working in Memphis with the coaches and improving certain aspects of his game. In fact I believe the front office was rather disappointed by his work ethic this summer and that lack of improvement in areas of his game he knew were weak and they asked him to work on. 

I agree with GTF that Jaren is the youngest player and the team needs to be patient. I am hoping he will be more intense on improving his game next summer and that he continues to work on his game this season but I realize how limited practice time is after everyone said last year that there was no time during the season to impress coaches or improve their games. 

Anyone who has watched Jaren this season and not see that his game hasn't improved at all is blind. 

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44 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

In fact I believe the front office was rather disappointed by his work ethic this summer and that lack of improvement in areas of his game he knew were weak and they asked him to work on.  

Do you have actual knowledge that this is the FO’s stance? Or is this conjecture on your part? 

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4 hours ago, toocoolkellz said:

Agreed but until that person emerges do you suggest we continue to force feed turnovers because at this moment jaren can't seal? Jaren needs a midrange jumper or push hook or something because with a congested paint due to lack of floor spacing,  issues getting the ball to the post etc... you'll continue seeing the same. Also if JV is camped in the paint you have a cluster f. 

I think he needs the sky hook.  He’s a finesse big and probably always will be and he had good shooting touch.  He can get off a sky hook from 5 to 10 feet.  It would also open up driving lanes.  

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1 hour ago, russian grizzly said:

Let`s trade him to Chicago for Carter Jr.

Wendell and Jaren would be a combo.

WCJ fouled out in 13 minutes the other night. The 2018 bigs are regressing.

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2 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

I think he needs the sky hook.  He’s a finesse big and probably always will be and he had good shooting touch.  He can get off a sky hook from 5 to 10 feet.  It would also open up driving lanes.  

Agreed,  with his length he'd ne able to get it off at will. 

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12 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

Agreed,  with his length he'd ne able to get it off at will. 

With Ja running Showtime, Jaren needs a quick hit.  Also something to go to when the shot clock is winding down.

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Speaking of Dawg Mentality  -- I think we have 3 of them on the team currently.    Ja Jae and Dillon. 

https://www.si.com/nba/grizzlies/news/brooks-becomes-dillon-the-villain-as-grizz-win-over-timberwolves-NoiDlG5IiUS95-E4qOAyQw/

 

Grizzlies Head Coach Taylor Jenkins would praise Brooks' "peskiness" on defense as well as credit him as being a tone-setter.

“His spirit has been great even in whatever couple struggles he may have had in a couple of games," said Jenkins. "Shots maybe not falling or foul trouble but his spirit has been consistent. You talked about his peskiness, that’s been the thing I think the last week and a half, two weeks, he’s been ultra-consistent in is just being a tone-setter for us defensively."

Brooks would also comment on his hard-nosed, physical villain-esque style of play defensively that gave the Timberwolves the blues all Wednesday night.

“I foul a lot, but I am just physical. I want to guard the best player," said Brooks.  "I want to try to shut them down and make their life a little harder even if they score 30 or whatever, it’s a hard 30 to get. Then, I’m going back out there on the offensive end. I just want to set a tone each and every time I come out there that I’m a defensive stopper. My teammates feed off me when they see me start guarding.

 

“We’re still getting to know each other on the floor and understanding what each other are capable of," said Brooks.  "We replicate those games – the Brooklyn game, this game and most of our first halves, combine them and make it a 48-minute effort. We can be really good. We can challenge a lot of teams in this league.”

Brooks also realizes that his coach and his team is growing more and more confident in him and says that his hard work and focus on outside shooting has led to that.

“It’s a change, a good change," said Brooks.  "I worked hard in the summer to get the respect. I have to keep playing and gaining the respect. This is only the beginning, and we’re going to take what we learned from this game and bring it to Orlando and Dallas and so on and so forth.”

Coach Jenkins would also add about how Dillon's spark on both ends of the court lift the team overall.

"That spirit I talk about just kind of builds your confidence up, your energy up and then obviously he had a heck of a night tonight," said Jenkins.  "I’m proud of his teammates finding him in the right spots and him being aggressive but also playing within the offense to get those shot attempts as a beneficiary of playing a pretty efficient game on both ends of the floor.”

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34 minutes ago, ACGrizz said:

Do you have actual knowledge that this is the FO’s stance? Or is this conjecture on your part? 

It hasn't been said outright but there have been side comments that they were surprised he didn't do more training. 

You have to understand that the team can't require someone to do any workouts in the off-season.  They can't even say they wish he had done more work. So you have to kind of read between the lines and read facial expressions. If you ask them directly they will not say anything critical of his off-season work. It's against the rules. 

So it is my conjecture based off the feeling I get from talking to insiders and what I have seen on the court. 

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5 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Speaking of Dawg Mentality  -- I think we have 3 of them on the team currently.    Ja Jae and Dillon. 

https://www.si.com/nba/grizzlies/news/brooks-becomes-dillon-the-villain-as-grizz-win-over-timberwolves-NoiDlG5IiUS95-E4qOAyQw/

 

Grizzlies Head Coach Taylor Jenkins would praise Brooks' "peskiness" on defense as well as credit him as being a tone-setter.

“His spirit has been great even in whatever couple struggles he may have had in a couple of games," said Jenkins. "Shots maybe not falling or foul trouble but his spirit has been consistent. You talked about his peskiness, that’s been the thing I think the last week and a half, two weeks, he’s been ultra-consistent in is just being a tone-setter for us defensively."

Brooks would also comment on his hard-nosed, physical villain-esque style of play defensively that gave the Timberwolves the blues all Wednesday night.

“I foul a lot, but I am just physical. I want to guard the best player," said Brooks.  "I want to try to shut them down and make their life a little harder even if they score 30 or whatever, it’s a hard 30 to get. Then, I’m going back out there on the offensive end. I just want to set a tone each and every time I come out there that I’m a defensive stopper. My teammates feed off me when they see me start guarding.

 

“We’re still getting to know each other on the floor and understanding what each other are capable of," said Brooks.  "We replicate those games – the Brooklyn game, this game and most of our first halves, combine them and make it a 48-minute effort. We can be really good. We can challenge a lot of teams in this league.”

Brooks also realizes that his coach and his team is growing more and more confident in him and says that his hard work and focus on outside shooting has led to that.

“It’s a change, a good change," said Brooks.  "I worked hard in the summer to get the respect. I have to keep playing and gaining the respect. This is only the beginning, and we’re going to take what we learned from this game and bring it to Orlando and Dallas and so on and so forth.”

Coach Jenkins would also add about how Dillon's spark on both ends of the court lift the team overall.

"That spirit I talk about just kind of builds your confidence up, your energy up and then obviously he had a heck of a night tonight," said Jenkins.  "I’m proud of his teammates finding him in the right spots and him being aggressive but also playing within the offense to get those shot attempts as a beneficiary of playing a pretty efficient game on both ends of the floor.”

Be careful posting this, some will say it's scrub love and that Dillon is trash and can't play defense.  Yes this is a direct jab at someone,  but not you lol 

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1 minute ago, toocoolkellz said:

Be careful posting this, some will say it's scrub love and that Dillon is trash and can't play defense.  Yes this is a direct jab at someone,  but not you lol 

Hey to be fair i was dogging Dillon pretty hard and wanted to trade him earlier (SloMo too).   However, i have been pleasantly surprised by how well both of them have adjusted to their new roles.    IMHO guys that take pride on the defensive end usually have that Dawg in them.    Dillon may have a lil "Jimmy Butler" in him where by sheer force of will and tenacity he is able to transform himself into a good player.    Literally only thing holding Dillon back from being considered a real legit starting level player is his physical profile.  Otherwise he has the attitude and skills to be one. 

Now i want TJ to make sure that Dillon Kyle and Bruno all get real chance to develop with Ja Brandon and Jaren.     We could end up with a really deep team in 2-3 years. 

 

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