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PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan

Our bigs are suffering in Jenkins system...

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11 hours ago, GameOn said:

Jaren doesn't work well with anyone right now. I know he's only 20 y.o., but he's a starter on an NBA team. He has to figure out how to start playing like one. Either that, or come off the bench until he sorts out his problems.

He's struggling no doubt, he worked well with Marc and Mike, but those guys are long gone. It's tough right now for sure. I still think he'll get figured out. 

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

I believe both sides of this argument are jumping the gun. Jonas and Jaren have played fewer than 10 games together and both are trying to find their place in a new offensive system. How about we give both talented players a bit of time to adjust? 

What foolishness is this of which you speak!!

Patience...being sensible....time to adjust? Unheard of.

Seriously though I think Jaren and JV will eventually fit together in a similar fashion to Marc and ZBO....complementing each other's strengths and helping with each other's weakness.

But that is going to take some time with some trial and error along the way.

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That game the other night against the T Wolves was a FREAK SHOW -- first, they started 4 small forwards and KAT.  We STILL almost ran them off the court and they couldn't contain Ja/Jae/Clarke/Dillon.  Jonas STILL got some good looks inside.  Jaren got off 5 shots in 15 minutes -- didn't really see him having the opportunity to put up more shots when he was in the game.  Bruno looks like the backup center of the future and the future is NOW.  Kyle and Jae were as "big" as anyone on their team not not named KAT (ok, and Dieng), and they did their thing.

Orlando slows it down more as do some other teams so let's see how Jaren and Jonas do.  

When Jaren's jumper and low post game are going he is really good.  Thing is, can he be EFFECTIVE (rebounding, defense, blocking shots, spacing the floor, intangibles) when he is NOT scoring well?  

I think Jaren needs to play a lot with our B team (that has solid play makers in Tyus and Kyle) so he can get more looks (especially in the paint).

Jonas might just have to focus on rebounding, setting picks, and getting garbage buckets.  He's good in the post, but mostly due to over powering guys, not that he is some McHale or Hakeem in there.

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3 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Wow one partial season, at the age of 19, is all you think a player needs to develop? You're ready to cut bait??? Wow. Do you not remember Conley and his 10.9 ppg and 4.3 apg as a 2nd year player. Everyone wanted to trade him for Ramon Sessions (the team almost did). Yeah that would have been smart. How about Giannis? In his second season, at 20 years old, he average 12.7 ppg/ 6.7 rpg/ 2.6 apg/ 1.0 blocks/ .9 steals while shooting 49.1%/ 15.9%/ 74.1% in 31 minutes. Should they have stopped trying to develop him??? I mean last year as a 19 yr old Jaren was better than that in just 26 minutes 13.8 ppg/ 4.7 rpg/ 1.1 apg/ 1.4 blocks/ .9 steals while shooting 50.6%/ 35.9%/ 76.7%. Excuse me if I would rather try to develop that guy and am willing to expend an above average 28 yr old starter if that player is in the way (I'm not saying he is, I am saying if he is, then he has to go). You don't win titles on the backs of above average starters. You win with stars. If you have a player with star potential, you have to do everything you can to develop it.

 

Imagine what Garnett would have become if Minnesota had that attitude. They originally had him on the bench and when they realized they weren't going anywhere, stuck him in the starting lineup. Don't try to tell me he earned it either. He average 6.4 ppg on 40.9% shooting prior to the all star break. Imagine if Milwaukee didn't just shove Giannis in the starting lineup. It would be one thing not to coddle Jaren if we were competitive. We aren't. The goal is not and should not be to win as many games as possible. The goal is to make your young guys as good as possible.

No one is saying that we cut bait with JJJ.  Different players mature at different stages, we all get it...BUT no one on the coaching staff or his team mates is going to lower the bar of what we expect from JJJ, UNLESS he lowers it himself by not adjusting to what is going on with new teammates, new coaches, new systems.  This is not the TRY your best league...he is not getting paid to try...he has skills, hopefully he has the right attitude...he needs to adjust and start showing some progress and RESULTS...FYI, JV is 27, hardly old for a big man.

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2 hours ago, Lugan Village said:

No one is saying that we cut bait with JJJ.  Different players mature at different stages, we all get it...BUT no one on the coaching staff or his team mates is going to lower the bar of what we expect from JJJ, UNLESS he lowers it himself by not adjusting to what is going on with new teammates, new coaches, new systems.  This is not the TRY your best league...he is not getting paid to try...he has skills, hopefully he has the right attitude...he needs to adjust and start showing some progress and RESULTS...FYI, JV is 27, hardly old for a big man.

Again neither Garnett nor Giannis earned their starting spots. The teams knew each had potential and threw them out there to learn. That is what we should be doing with Jaren. I am not asking anyone to lower the bar on what to expect from Jaren. I'm saying you keep playing him until you're convinced he will never get it. Until then, you give him every opportunity, whether he deserves it or not.

My only thing with Jonas (whom I like a lot) is if it turns out that he and Jaren can't play together, then Jaren should be the priority.

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8 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Imagine what Garnett would have become if Minnesota had that attitude. They originally had him on the bench and when they realized they weren't going anywhere, stuck him in the starting lineup. Don't try to tell me he earned it either. He average 6.4 ppg on 40.9% shooting prior to the all star break. Imagine if Milwaukee didn't just shove Giannis in the starting lineup. It would be one thing not to coddle Jaren if we were competitive. We aren't. The goal is not and should not be to win as many games as possible. The goal is to make your young guys as good as possible.

I was responding in a discussion where it was supposed that maybe Jaren is a project.  If he is a project he should never start ahead of a quality veteran.  It's the same reason that Hasheem Thabeet, a project, did not start ahead of Marc Gasol.  Kevin Garnett was not a project.  For that reason the Timberwolves, in the two seasons following Garnett's rookie season, traded away their two frontcourt veterans, Christian Laettner and Tom Gugliotta.  They didn't bench them.  Jonas Valanciunas earned his starting spot with his performance last season and was resigned for that reason.  You don't move a guy like that to the bench in favor of starting an underperfoming project player.  You may as well walk up and smack him in the face.

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1 minute ago, smit-tay griz said:

I was responding in a discussion where it was supposed that maybe Jaren is a project.  If he is a project he should never start ahead of a quality veteran.  It's the same reason that Hasheem Thabeet, a project, did not start ahead of Marc Gasol.  Kevin Garnett was not a project.  For that reason the Timberwolves, in the two seasons following Garnett's rookie season, traded away their two frontcourt veterans, Christian Laettner and Tom Gugliotta.  They didn't bench them.  Jonas Valanciunas earned his starting spot with his performance last season and was resigned for that reason.  You don't move a guy like that to the bench in favor of starting an underperfoming project player.  You may as well walk up and smack him in the face.

...and see what happens...

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9 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Imagine what Garnett would have become if Minnesota had that attitude. They originally had him on the bench and when they realized they weren't going anywhere, stuck him in the starting lineup. Don't try to tell me he earned it either. He average 6.4 ppg on 40.9% shooting prior to the all star break.

Nice ... got me remembering the Stephon Marbury to KG connection!

They didnt get too far BUT they were exciting to watch!

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1 hour ago, smit-tay griz said:

I was responding in a discussion where it was supposed that maybe Jaren is a project.  If he is a project he should never start ahead of a quality veteran.  It's the same reason that Hasheem Thabeet, a project, did not start ahead of Marc Gasol.  Kevin Garnett was not a project.  For that reason the Timberwolves, in the two seasons following Garnett's rookie season, traded away their two frontcourt veterans, Christian Laettner and Tom Gugliotta.  They didn't bench them.  Jonas Valanciunas earned his starting spot with his performance last season and was resigned for that reason.  You don't move a guy like that to the bench in favor of starting an underperfoming project player.  You may as well walk up and smack him in the face.

The first high school kid drafted in how many years? A guy who came off the bench to average 6.4 ppg on 40.9% shooting prior to the all star break earned his way to starting over those veterans after the break??? Is that what you are telling me??? GTFOH

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16 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

I was responding in a discussion where it was supposed that maybe Jaren is a project.  If he is a project he should never start ahead of a quality veteran.  It's the same reason that Hasheem Thabeet, a project, did not start ahead of Marc Gasol.  Kevin Garnett was not a project.  For that reason the Timberwolves, in the two seasons following Garnett's rookie season, traded away their two frontcourt veterans, Christian Laettner and Tom Gugliotta.  They didn't bench them.  Jonas Valanciunas earned his starting spot with his performance last season and was resigned for that reason.  You don't move a guy like that to the bench in favor of starting an underperfoming project player.  You may as well walk up and smack him in the face.

Top 5 pick is the goal and starting Jaren + JV could assure that.   Never forget this.  

Once again last night jaren looked best without JV.   Because JJJ plays better in a 4 out offense.   Easier to get him going when he is only paint option.   

I just think longterm JJJ best position is the 5.  Maybe developing him that way off the bench is easiest way to accomplish that without abusing his body.   JV is clearly best 5 on the team and a young veteran.  hard to justify benching him.  

But...no way Jarens people would be cool with him going to bench unit. 

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43 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Top 5 pick is the goal and starting Jaren + JV could assure that.   Never forget this.  

Once again last night jaren looked best without JV.   Because JJJ plays better in a 4 out offense.   Easier to get him going when he is only paint option.   

I just think longterm JJJ best position is the 5.  Maybe developing him that way off the bench is easiest way to accomplish that without abusing his body.   JV is clearly best 5 on the team and a young veteran.  hard to justify benching him.  

But...no way Jarens people would be cool with him going to bench unit. 

Who in hell are they, and when did they get a vote?

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15 hours ago, lsugrizzfan said:

The first high school kid drafted in how many years? A guy who came off the bench to average 6.4 ppg on 40.9% shooting prior to the all star break earned his way to starting over those veterans after the break??? Is that what you are telling me??? GTFOH

gtfohy.  No, he was not considered a project.  He was expected to be a very good player, which is why a high school player was taken fifth in the draft, which was unprecedented.  Starting from mid-season before the All-Star break until the end of the season he averaged 14.2/8.6 and trending upwards.  They knew what they had.

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Jonas is so horrible defensively it is not funny. He’s the smallest big man in the world. Does not even pretend to raise his hands when guys drive at him. He just tries to get in place to maybe rebound but he doesn’t rebound at all out of his area. On offense he is essentially a black hole. Continually misses easy reads. Can’t catch on the move well. And is just all around clunky as a player. Yes, he can put up big scoring and rebound numbers but your team will suffer as he does so. The quicker they move him to the bench or another team, the better.

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8 hours ago, MemphisX said:

Jonas is so horrible defensively it is not funny. He’s the smallest big man in the world. Does not even pretend to raise his hands when guys drive at him. He just tries to get in place to maybe rebound but he doesn’t rebound at all out of his area. On offense he is essentially a black hole. Continually misses easy reads. Can’t catch on the move well. And is just all around clunky as a player. Yes, he can put up big scoring and rebound numbers but your team will suffer as he does so. The quicker they move him to the bench or another team, the better.

Im going to have to agree. Clarke/JJJ is the front court of the future. The ideal third big is a mobile big that covers some ground and doesnt need the ball much.

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8 hours ago, MemphisX said:

Jonas is so horrible defensively it is not funny. He’s the smallest big man in the world. Does not even pretend to raise his hands when guys drive at him. He just tries to get in place to maybe rebound but he doesn’t rebound at all out of his area. On offense he is essentially a black hole. Continually misses easy reads. Can’t catch on the move well. And is just all around clunky as a player. Yes, he can put up big scoring and rebound numbers but your team will suffer as he does so. The quicker they move him to the bench or another team, the better.

 

Everything written here is true. Been calling him Stone hands.

He is just slow to react both offensively and defensively.

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