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PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan

Our bigs are suffering in Jenkins system...

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5 hours ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Has anybody taken into consideration that Jaren may just be a poor fit with Jonas. 

I absolutely think that could be the case. If it is, Jonas has to go. Developing Jaren has to be the priority. Part of that is learning what he is best at and putting him in a position to excel. 

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1 hour ago, lsugrizzfan said:

I absolutely think that could be the case. If it is, Jonas has to go. Developing Jaren has to be the priority. Part of that is learning what he is best at and putting him in a position to excel. 

whoa whoa whoa...developing Jaren, what was last year all about?  Granted he got hurt, but his summer development and going intot his season?  The issue is the grizzlies have changed their offensive sets from last year.  Where does Jaren fit in going forward?  He struggles inside right now, he is struggling with 3 points, he is fouling and lacks the lateral movement to stay with bigs, he isn't a prolific rebounder at either end, and he is not an assist guy....Jaren hasn't adapted to the new offence...and you want to get rid of JV?...his double double each night, his physicality, his picks and screens?  Who do you replace that with?

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One thing I've noticed is the difference in the pick and roll between JV/Ja and BC/Ja. JV sets great screens and creates separation for Ja, whereas BC doesn't hold the screen for long but rolls to the basket quickly and creates two threats going at the basket (with the possibility of alley-oops).

Unfortunately, Jaren does neither - he can't set as physical of screens as JV and doesn't seem to have the coordination/athleticism yet to attack the basket on the roll the same way that BC does. Since a lot of our effectiveness on offense is Ja creating off the dribble and pick and roll, this might be one of the reasons Jaren is struggling early in the season.

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Jaren and Brandon are being asked to play 2 different roles on the floor.

On offense, Jaren is barely in the paint, mostly on the 3pt line and sometimes in the corner.

Brandon is almost never on the perimeter and almost all his shots are in the paint.

The difference is chalk and cheese.

And for the JV fans out there, he is struggling on offense as well, his ppg are way down compared to last season.

The coaching has made this a guard/perimeter-oriented offense.

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4 hours ago, Lugan Village said:

whoa whoa whoa...developing Jaren, what was last year all about?  Granted he got hurt, but his summer development and going intot his season?  The issue is the grizzlies have changed their offensive sets from last year.  Where does Jaren fit in going forward?  He struggles inside right now, he is struggling with 3 points, he is fouling and lacks the lateral movement to stay with bigs, he isn't a prolific rebounder at either end, and he is not an assist guy....Jaren hasn't adapted to the new offence...and you want to get rid of JV?...his double double each night, his physicality, his picks and screens?  Who do you replace that with?

It takes longer than 1 year to develop a player

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i told before and still beieve that JV may be trade sooner or later. Jenkins have make clear choice in his system ( future will tell if he is right or wrong)  but JV will struggle in the new system for sure. And for Jaren, it all depend on him . He is talented enough to adjust and become the star of the team with Ja but does he really put all efforts in this? i see no improvment from last year but let's give him more time.

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Jaren is in a shooting slump. He’s not gonna give you a lot on offense if he can’t shoot, score, and space the floor.  He’s also not an elite rim runner so he is more of a stretch big man and perhaps more of a 4 than a 5.  It’s on the point guards to get him shots early (they actually got him 5 shots early in different spots) so if he hits them then Ja/Tyus should continue to feed him.

Clarke is playing fantastic.

Bruno is playing well as a backup center — that might be his best position. 

JV could be better but he could be worse. Like Jaren, Jonas’ production might be more dependent on mismatches this season.  

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10 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

Your points are why I think we should move Jonas to the bench, because Jaren matters way more in the long run. Jonas would probably play the same minutes anyway. Bruno isn't in the paint that much, so him and jonas should work well together. Brandon can kind of be anywhere, so he's not clogging up the paint for Jaren. 

You don't move a quality veteran starter to the bench to start a project player in his place.  That's insanity.  If Jaren is a project, then he is the one who needs to come off the bench.  I don't think we're going to need to do that anyway.  I think Jaren will soon get it together and all this early season talk will eventually be forgotten.

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Unless you get a top prospect for Jonas, I'd personally rather keep him than trade him. He's the best rebounder on the team, the most physical, and the biggest bodied. He doesn't have the best speed and athleticism, but whether starting or off the bench, you have to have at least one player like him, and he's one of the better in the league outside the top tier. You can see by his career stats he's been working on his 3pt% shooting, and he's not horrible at it. He's just hesitant, because he seems to have a "true" center mentality. As the season goes, I think he'll start to look better. I imagine the development of that part of his game was discussed during his resigning. As far as the future, and developing others over him, he's only 27. He's got another 5 or so years of being a good player. I don't think we're waiting 5+ years for the young guys to develop, so Jonas can be a part of the future of the team as well. 

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7 minutes ago, sativa417 said:

Unless you get a top prospect for Jonas, I'd personally rather keep him than trade him. He's the best rebounder on the team, the most physical, and the biggest bodied. He doesn't have the best speed and athleticism, but whether starting or off the bench, you have to have at least one player like him, and he's one of the better in the league outside the top tier. You can see by his career stats he's been working on his 3pt% shooting, and he's not horrible at it. He's just hesitant, because he seems to have a "true" center mentality. As the season goes, I think he'll start to look better. I imagine the development of that part of his game was discussed during his resigning. As far as the future, and developing others over him, he's only 27. He's got another 5 or so years of being a good player. I don't think we're waiting 5+ years for the young guys to develop, so Jonas can be a part of the future of the team as well. 

Jonas is good at what he does, and he's a big reason we're 5th in rebounding. There's no need to trade him, because he can work as a starter or off the bench. Most or all of our other bigs can play with him as well. 

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20 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

I wonder what would happen if we started our best five players: Ja, Dillon, Clarke, Jaren, and Jonas?

Jaren guards the inside while Clarke defends the perimeter with Jaren trying to attack mismatches on offense (or shooting 3’s) with Clarke inside or manning the mid-range.  Jonas does Jonas things.  

A backup mash unit of Tyus, Marko, Jae Bird, Slo Mo, and Bruno actually might work too.  

I think we will spend the entire year “tweaking lineups”.  

I like that lineup, especially having Clarke as a starter.

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3 minutes ago, GameOn said:

I like that lineup, especially having Clarke as a starter.

Our A Team would have some awesome games if are shots are falling. We could hang with anyone.  Would make for an interesting B team too.

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15 hours ago, Lugan Village said:

We gotta stop calling our young talent names like cubs, puppies, kittens whatever we call them that gives them excuses to make mistakes and its OK.  This is the NBA, buckle up, its **** physical...and yes mistakes will be made, but learn from them and start to build this winning culture.  The risk is 3 years from now we still have a young team, we've moved JV, let Dillon Brookes get away in FA....this could be a total gut job and rebuild that will outlive all of us on this board.  They shouldn't accept loosing because their rookies...that sucks and is not OK...i want to see an attitude, and edginess to our bigs, distributing the ball NBA style, and start playing an NBA game versus individual play....I love last nights WIN and how we played...build off of these wins...geez

Every fan's nightmare. Tell me about it ... long suffering Leafs fan ... no Stanley Cup for 52 years.

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12 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

I agree, it's not an excuse, but Jaren and JV just don't work with each other. JV didn't actually miss any games unless you mean preseason, which he played mostly well except for one game. JV has played well I think, he's doing his job pretty well overall, but he's not the future of the franchise. 

Jaren doesn't work well with anyone right now. I know he's only 20 y.o., but he's a starter on an NBA team. He has to figure out how to start playing like one. Either that, or come off the bench until he sorts out his problems.

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6 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

Jaren and Brandon are being asked to play 2 different roles on the floor.

On offense, Jaren is barely in the paint, mostly on the 3pt line and sometimes in the corner.

Brandon is almost never on the perimeter and almost all his shots are in the paint.

The difference is chalk and cheese.

And for the JV fans out there, he is struggling on offense as well, his ppg are way down compared to last season.

The coaching has made this a guard/perimeter-oriented offense.

He's getting less minutes and touches compared to last season. His shooting % is about the same.

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Both guys needs sets run for them Coach Bud system never was big man friendly, but basketball especially NBA ball is about utilizing your best players. Jaren and Jonas have to be more incorporated into the offense. 

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2 hours ago, GameOn said:

He's getting less minutes and touches compared to last season. His shooting % is about the same.

That's why his dip in performance isn't as noticeable as Jaren's.

But he IS  also affected by this new system.

If Jaren was knocking down those 3s at the same clip as last season, guys here wouldn't be so up in arms about his performance but that would be masking the underlying  reasons.

2 hours ago, QMemphis said:

Both guys needs sets run for them Coach Bud system never was big man friendly, but basketball especially NBA ball is about utilizing your best players. Jaren and Jonas have to be more incorporated into the offense. 

Totally agree but I don't see it happening. My feeling is that Jaren and JV are going to have to adapt and adjust, not the other way around. As someone else said yesterday, the TRUE test of how good a coach Jenkins is/becomes is how he incorporates these 2 into a system being built around Ja.

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13 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

Jaren and Brandon are being asked to play 2 different roles on the floor.

On offense, Jaren is barely in the paint, mostly on the 3pt line and sometimes in the corner.

Brandon is almost never on the perimeter and almost all his shots are in the paint.

The difference is chalk and cheese.

And for the JV fans out there, he is struggling on offense as well, his ppg are way down compared to last season.

The coaching has made this a guard/perimeter-oriented offense.

Agreed, the system doesn't focus on more halfcourt oriented players but half court players are necessary when the game slows down. It's primarily the reason we fall apart later in games 

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19 hours ago, Lugan Village said:

Future of the franchise, not sure what that means or why is it important.  We need a mixed roster of Memphis draft picks, FA signings and trades to build a team to seriously compete in the playoffs.  So who replaces JV or Brookes in your future roster?  No one on the current roster.  Future Draft Picks?  No guarantees.  Before we try to find a role on this roster for JJJ, he needs to step up and play a heck of a lot better. We shouldn't "privilege" him a starting 5 spot and replace an experienced C without earning it.  JA is earning it.  JJJ needs to earn it as well.  I hope he does, we need him to play like a top 1st rounder....

Image result for well said gif

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16 hours ago, Lugan Village said:

whoa whoa whoa...developing Jaren, what was last year all about?  Granted he got hurt, but his summer development and going intot his season?  The issue is the grizzlies have changed their offensive sets from last year.  Where does Jaren fit in going forward?  He struggles inside right now, he is struggling with 3 points, he is fouling and lacks the lateral movement to stay with bigs, he isn't a prolific rebounder at either end, and he is not an assist guy....Jaren hasn't adapted to the new offence...and you want to get rid of JV?...his double double each night, his physicality, his picks and screens?  Who do you replace that with?

Wow one partial season, at the age of 19, is all you think a player needs to develop? You're ready to cut bait??? Wow. Do you not remember Conley and his 10.9 ppg and 4.3 apg as a 2nd year player. Everyone wanted to trade him for Ramon Sessions (the team almost did). Yeah that would have been smart. How about Giannis? In his second season, at 20 years old, he average 12.7 ppg/ 6.7 rpg/ 2.6 apg/ 1.0 blocks/ .9 steals while shooting 49.1%/ 15.9%/ 74.1% in 31 minutes. Should they have stopped trying to develop him??? I mean last year as a 19 yr old Jaren was better than that in just 26 minutes 13.8 ppg/ 4.7 rpg/ 1.1 apg/ 1.4 blocks/ .9 steals while shooting 50.6%/ 35.9%/ 76.7%. Excuse me if I would rather try to develop that guy and am willing to expend an above average 28 yr old starter if that player is in the way (I'm not saying he is, I am saying if he is, then he has to go). You don't win titles on the backs of above average starters. You win with stars. If you have a player with star potential, you have to do everything you can to develop it.

 

10 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

You don't move a quality veteran starter to the bench to start a project player in his place.  That's insanity.  If Jaren is a project, then he is the one who needs to come off the bench.  I don't think we're going to need to do that anyway.  I think Jaren will soon get it together and all this early season talk will eventually be forgotten.

Imagine what Garnett would have become if Minnesota had that attitude. They originally had him on the bench and when they realized they weren't going anywhere, stuck him in the starting lineup. Don't try to tell me he earned it either. He average 6.4 ppg on 40.9% shooting prior to the all star break. Imagine if Milwaukee didn't just shove Giannis in the starting lineup. It would be one thing not to coddle Jaren if we were competitive. We aren't. The goal is not and should not be to win as many games as possible. The goal is to make your young guys as good as possible.

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I believe both sides of this argument are jumping the gun. Jonas and Jaren have played fewer than 10 games together and both are trying to find their place in a new offensive system. How about we give both talented players a bit of time to adjust? 

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As I said in my last post, I'm not saying they can't play together. I'm just saying if it turns out to be the case, you get Jonas out of the way. There shouldn't be any hesitation or second thoughts.

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JJJ is going to struggle to fit with anyone right now. JV and Ja or anyone who needs the ball. Thats cause who knows what in the hell he is. Is he a shooter, a post player, pick and pop, pick and roll, off the dribble, face up big, cleanup big. He dabbles in all of them but has noticeable flaws in each area. How can anyone build chemistry with that?

He needs to get his defense and rebounding up and let the offense fall where it may over time.

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1 minute ago, Dwash said:

JJJ is going to struggle to fit with anyone right now. JV and Ja. Thats cause who knows what in the hell he is. Is he a shooter, a post player, pick and pop, pick and roll, off the dribble, face up big. He dabbles in all of them but has noticeable flaws in each area.

He needs to get his defense and rebounding up and let the offense fall where it may over time.

As much as I love Jaren, I'm not sure his rebounding will ever be any good. It reminds me of Marc honestly. If we can get 8 a game from him, I feel like we will have accomplished a lot.

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Just now, lsugrizzfan said:

As much as I love Jaren, I'm not sure his rebounding will ever be any good. It reminds me of Marc honestly. If we can get 8 a game from him, I feel like we will have accomplished a lot.

Yea but atleast Marc would seal his man so his teammates could get the board.   Marc also could get double digit rebounds whenever he decided to put effort into it.   Jaren just doesn't have those instincts and may never.   Bad rebounding is the only reason why its hard to peg him as a center.   I think his mind just hasn't caught up to his body yet.   He is still a "project" and we have to keep that in mind when evaluating him.     He did have an ideal situation last year and this season so far is exposing that.   Let's just hope he is a fast learner. 

 

8 minutes ago, Dwash said:

JJJ is going to struggle to fit with anyone right now. JV and Ja or anyone who needs the ball. Thats cause who knows what in the hell he is. Is he a shooter, a post player, pick and pop, pick and roll, off the dribble, face up big. He dabbles in all of them but has noticeable flaws in each area. How can anyone build chemistry with that?

He needs to get his defense and rebounding up and let the offense fall where it may over time.

+1000    Which is the reason BC thrives so well.     His game is completely complimentary and he doesn't need plays ran for him to score or effect the game.     BC is a PickNroll finisher and has a lethal pogo midrange shot.   He is elite at those two things and a good rebounder.     His perimeter defense and rim-protection are also already elite.   That's why he fits well in any rotation. 

 Heck if dude turns out to be even a 34% 3pt shooter then he could be an AllStar.    If he ever develops a wings shotcreation ability then you talking top 20 player.     

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