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PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan

Our bigs are suffering in Jenkins system...

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and thats a huge problem...beside slowmo/bc (who are't bigs in my book) all our other bigs (jv,3js,bruno) really look left out on the offensive end..mostly the bigs just set screens for the guards and jenkins has turn them all into a spot up 3pt shooting brook lopez copy...it is just me or what...i would to see the shoot distribution between the front/backcourts..because to me it seems like all the guards have a green light to chunk and its hurting our bigmen shot attempts.

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3 minutes ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

and thats a huge problem...beside slowmo/bc (who are't bigs in my book) all our other bigs (jv,3js,bruno) really look left out on the offensive end..mostly the bigs just set screens for the guards and jenkins has turn them all into a spot up 3pt shooting brook lopez copy...it is just me or what...i would to see the shoot distribution between the front/backcourts..because to me it seems like all the guards have a green light to chunk and its hurting our bigmen shot attempts.

KAT was nearly run off the court tonight.  Not a lot of half court sets being run.  

I think you can start Jaren and Jonas but I would like to see Jaren out there as the lone Big with room to operate inside or with an athletic big man like Clarke or Bruno.  

Jaren got a few shots but he got some early fouls then got benched.  Clarke got his.  I think Bruno could be used in more pick and rolls.  He actually looks like an ideal center in our system.  

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Honestly,  if we are already tanking and simultaneously trying to develop then this should be the rotation/lineups

Ja/Tyus

Dillon/JoshJackson

Jae/Kyle

Brandon/Bruno

Jaren/Jonas

Marko, Grayson, Hill, and DeAnthony emergency players.       

Let our main young cubs gain chemistry.  Play them together as many minutes as possible.   No reason why BC shouldn't be considered an important member of the Core.   He is earning it.    Having Jaren as single Big may help jumpstart his offense and make it easier to get him paint touches.   Ja and BC pickNroll connection is lethal and needs continued development.   

I think Kyle is best post entry passer on the team so pairing him with Jonas while allow JV to be offensive focal of second unit keeps him engaged and productive.   Tyus is a true PG that can get Jonas the ball once he understands how he plays.   Bruno would be the rim protector and floor spacer.    Tons of size and length in 2nd unit to make up for lack of shooting.   

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Honestly,  if we are already tanking and simultaneously trying to develop then this should be the rotation/lineups

Ja/Tyus

Dillon/JoshJackson

Jae/Kyle

Brandon/Bruno

Jaren/Jonas

Marko, Grayson, Hill, and Dillon emergency players.       

Let our main young cubs gain chemistry.  Play them together as many minutes as possible.   No reason why BC shouldn't be considered an important member of the Core.   He is earning it.    Having Jaren as single Big may help jumpstart his offense and make it easier to get him paint touches.   Ja and BC pickNroll connection is lethal and needs continued development.   

I think Kyle is best post entry passer on the team so pairing him with Jonas while allow JV to be offensive focal of second unit keeps him engaged and productive.   Tyus is a true PG that can get Jonas the ball once he understands how he plays.   Bruno would be the rim protector and floor spacer.    Tons of size and length in 2nd unit to make up for lack of shooting.   

I agree with you in a medium term sense. I bolded Dillon's name since you put him in the emergency player list and the starting list. Your rotation should be what we are doing by the end of the year. Longer term, Josh hopefully becomes the starter at SF, we hopefully get Malik Beasley or Bogdanovic to start at SG, so Dillon can be our 6th man. Kyle, Bruno, and Jonas make a fantastic mix of defense, scoring, and rebounding. Kyle and Bruno can switch everything, and Bruno gives jonas a nice shot blocker to help him. 

Brandon and Jaren work well together I think. Both are good shot blockers, both can score inside and out, but jaren is better in the post, and Brandon is a better rebounder. 

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1 hour ago, Rdk4121 said:

I agree with you in a medium term sense. I bolded Dillon's name since you put him in the emergency player list and the starting list. Your rotation should be what we are doing by the end of the year. Longer term, Josh hopefully becomes the starter at SF, we hopefully get Malik Beasley or Bogdanovic to start at SG, so Dillon can be our 6th man. Kyle, Bruno, and Jonas make a fantastic mix of defense, scoring, and rebounding. Kyle and Bruno can switch everything, and Bruno gives jonas a nice shot blocker to help him. 

Brandon and Jaren work well together I think. Both are good shot blockers, both can score inside and out, but jaren is better in the post, and Brandon is a better rebounder. 

I wonder what would happen if we started our best five players: Ja, Dillon, Clarke, Jaren, and Jonas?

Jaren guards the inside while Clarke defends the perimeter with Jaren trying to attack mismatches on offense (or shooting 3’s) with Clarke inside or manning the mid-range.  Jonas does Jonas things.  

A backup mash unit of Tyus, Marko, Jae Bird, Slo Mo, and Bruno actually might work too.  

I think we will spend the entire year “tweaking lineups”.  

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Jaren should be used primarily as a pick and pop guy and let jv do the pick and rolls. On the breaks jaren should hit the corners or be a trailer like Dirk used to do. Also some down screen rim runs. Jarens offense should be midrange out to the 3 only paint touches should be quick dribbles into his moves. That guard skills mess ain't working 

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We gotta stop calling our young talent names like cubs, puppies, kittens whatever we call them that gives them excuses to make mistakes and its OK.  This is the NBA, buckle up, its **** physical...and yes mistakes will be made, but learn from them and start to build this winning culture.  The risk is 3 years from now we still have a young team, we've moved JV, let Dillon Brookes get away in FA....this could be a total gut job and rebuild that will outlive all of us on this board.  They shouldn't accept loosing because their rookies...that sucks and is not OK...i want to see an attitude, and edginess to our bigs, distributing the ball NBA style, and start playing an NBA game versus individual play....I love last nights WIN and how we played...build off of these wins...geez

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5 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

We gotta stop calling our young talent names like cubs, puppies, kittens whatever we call them that gives them excuses to make mistakes and its OK.  This is the NBA, buckle up, its **** physical...and yes mistakes will be made, but learn from them and start to build this winning culture.  The risk is 3 years from now we still have a young team, we've moved JV, let Dillon Brookes get away in FA....this could be a total gut job and rebuild that will outlive all of us on this board.  They shouldn't accept loosing because their rookies...that sucks and is not OK...i want to see an attitude, and edginess to our bigs, distributing the ball NBA style, and start playing an NBA game versus individual play....I love last nights WIN and how we played...build off of these wins...geez

I think they'll make resigning Dillon a priority, not many teams have the money to pay him anyways. I don't think we should overpay for him either but I do think he has a role as a sixth man for us for the foreseeable future 

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2 hours ago, toocoolkellz said:

Jaren should be used primarily as a pick and pop guy and let jv do the pick and rolls. On the breaks jaren should hit the corners or be a trailer like Dirk used to do. Also some down screen rim runs. Jarens offense should be midrange out to the 3 only paint touches should be quick dribbles into his moves. That guard skills mess ain't working 

Horrible use of Jaren. The reason Jaren shot so well last year is that he was always able to get some early post ups. Basketball is a rhythm game. Get him in a rhythm early and then let him cook. He is spending way too much time on the perimeter right now. He needs to be closer to the basketball more often. His outside shooting skills should be complimentary to his low post game, not the other way around. The kid is 6'11" with a huge wingspan. Let him shoot over people in the paint.

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7 hours ago, Rdk4121 said:

I agree with you in a medium term sense. I bolded Dillon's name since you put him in the emergency player list and the starting list. Your rotation should be what we are doing by the end of the year. Longer term, Josh hopefully becomes the starter at SF, we hopefully get Malik Beasley or Bogdanovic to start at SG, so Dillon can be our 6th man. Kyle, Bruno, and Jonas make a fantastic mix of defense, scoring, and rebounding. Kyle and Bruno can switch everything, and Bruno gives jonas a nice shot blocker to help him. 

Brandon and Jaren work well together I think. Both are good shot blockers, both can score inside and out, but jaren is better in the post, and Brandon is a better rebounder. 

Good catch, i corrected it to DeAnthony.    Right now Dillon is the best 3pt shooter (.41%) on team by a mile.   So he should remain a starter simply for his floor spacing.    Crowder defense is still solid and if he calms down chucking then no reason to remove him from starting.    We need one legit vet voice to help lead that unit - Crowder is that dude. 

I think Josh should be able to easily usurp Grayson and Marko in rotation.   He can be the wing scorer for 2nd unit basically Robin to Jonas Batman.    Josh can also run a decent PickNRoll so that may help Jonas get going too. 

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5 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Horrible use of Jaren. The reason Jaren shot so well last year is that he was always able to get some early post ups. Basketball is a rhythm game. Get him in a rhythm early and then let him cook. He is spending way too much time on the perimeter right now. He needs to be closer to the basketball more often. His outside shooting skills should be complimentary to his low post game, not the other way around. The kid is 6'11" with a huge wingspan. Let him shoot over people in the paint.

What good is keeping him close to goal doing if we can't get him the ball? I did mention his paint touches should be quick two dribble into his move. Camping him out in the lane with JV with a team that is notoriously bad at shooting the 3 is a horrible idea, the lane would be so clogged. 

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4 minutes ago, lsugrizzfan said:

Horrible use of Jaren. The reason Jaren shot so well last year is that he was always able to get some early post ups. Basketball is a rhythm game. Get him in a rhythm early and then let him cook. He is spending way too much time on the perimeter right now. He needs to be closer to the basketball more often. His outside shooting skills should be complimentary to his low post game, not the other way around. The kid is 6'11" with a huge wingspan. Let him shoot over people in the paint.

Has anybody taken into consideration that Jaren may just be a poor fit with Jonas. 

 It was much easier for him to get those post-ups when playing alongside "paint allergic" Marc.   Who also happens to be an excellent interior passer and floor spacing threat.   Problem was neither one of them were rebounders.   That was really the only drawback to their fit.

Jonas is a paint monster so more akin to playing alongside Zbo.    Anybody think Jaren and Zbo would've been a great fit?     Clarke works with JOnas because of his activity.    He attacks the basket and gets points from rebounds and a great rim runner.   Jaren doesn't do that so in order to fit with JOnas he is in Floor spacer role.   However, he isn't a good interior passer and doesn't have much of a pick and pop game either.     His bread and butter scoring comes from 3ptrs and post ups.   Pairing with Jonas limits his post up opportunities.  And he isn't gonna get garbage buckets either due to Jonas being superior rebounder.   So really he has to play like a guard in order to get real scoring chances.   I don't think he is a good enough scorer to thrive that way.        This is why i think they are a bad fit in this offense.     Technically we are playing Two bigs in a One big offense. 

 Truthfully i'd be fine with keeping Jonas starter and playing Jaren off the bench (promote Clarke) - if it helps him get his fouling under control.     Basically start treating Jaren like the project he may actually be.   

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Has anybody taken into consideration that Jaren may just be a poor fit with Jonas. 

 It was much easier for him to get those post-ups when playing alongside "paint allergic" Marc.   Who also happens to be an excellent interior passer and floor spacing threat.   Problem was neither one of them were rebounders.   That was really the only drawback to their fit.

Jonas is a paint monster so more akin to playing alongside Zbo.    Anybody think Jaren and Zbo would've been a great fit?     Clarke works with JOnas because of his activity.    He attacks the basket and gets points from rebounds and a great rim runner.   Jaren doesn't do that so in order to fit with JOnas he is in Floor spacer role.   However, he isn't a good interior passer and doesn't have much of a pick and pop game either.     His bread and butter scoring comes from 3ptrs and post ups.   Pairing with Jonas limits his post up opportunities.  And he isn't gonna get garbage buckets either due to Jonas being superior rebounder.   So really he has to play like a guard in order to get real scoring chances.   I don't think he is a good enough scorer to thrive that way.        This is why i think they are a bad fit in this offense.     Technically we are playing Two bigs in a One big offense. 

 Truthfully i'd be fine with keeping Jonas starter and playing Jaren off the bench (promote Clarke) - if it helps him get his fouling under control.     Basically start treating Jaren like the project he may actually be.   

Your points are why I think we should move Jonas to the bench, because Jaren matters way more in the long run. Jonas would probably play the same minutes anyway. Bruno isn't in the paint that much, so him and jonas should work well together. Brandon can kind of be anywhere, so he's not clogging up the paint for Jaren. 

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2 hours ago, toocoolkellz said:

I think they'll make resigning Dillon a priority, not many teams have the money to pay him anyways. I don't think we should overpay for him either but I do think he has a role as a sixth man for us for the foreseeable future 

Nobody is saving their cap space to make an offer to Dillon. The most he’s going to get in an offer sheet is the MLE, and we can match that without any problems.

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10 minutes ago, Rdk4121 said:

Your points are why I think we should move Jonas to the bench, because Jaren matters way more in the long run. Jonas would probably play the same minutes anyway. Bruno isn't in the paint that much, so him and jonas should work well together. Brandon can kind of be anywhere, so he's not clogging up the paint for Jaren. 

When Jonas missed first 5 games or so and then under restricted minutes, how did JJJ play?  About the same?  The issue here is JJJ play which is awful right now....careless fouls, no 3 pt shot, missing bunnies, not battling for the ball.  Let's stop treating him as a buttercup, and he better start manning up and playing better...we need to stop blaming others or the offensive schemes for his bad play...JA is THE  guy, others are starting to get their rhythm like Brookes, Clarke is playing way above his size, JV is trying to work through a different offense, his numbers are way down, but he is rebounding and physical..lets hold all our players accountable.

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3 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

When Jonas missed first 5 games or so and then under restricted minutes, how did JJJ play?  About the same?  The issue here is JJJ play which is awful right now....careless fouls, no 3 pt shot, missing bunnies, not battling for the ball.  Let's stop treating him as a buttercup, and he better start manning up and playing better...we need to stop blaming others or the offensive schemes for his bad play...JA is THE  guy, others are starting to get their rhythm like Brookes, Clarke is playing way above his size, JV is trying to work through a different offense, his numbers are way down, but he is rebounding and physical..lets hold all our players accountable.

I agree, it's not an excuse, but Jaren and JV just don't work with each other. JV didn't actually miss any games unless you mean preseason, which he played mostly well except for one game. JV has played well I think, he's doing his job pretty well overall, but he's not the future of the franchise. 

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19 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Nobody is saving their cap space to make an offer to Dillon. The most he’s going to get in an offer sheet is the MLE, and we can match that without any problems.

Wiggins got a max deal, teams do dumb stuff all the time

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1 hour ago, Rdk4121 said:

I agree, it's not an excuse, but Jaren and JV just don't work with each other. JV didn't actually miss any games unless you mean preseason, which he played mostly well except for one game. JV has played well I think, he's doing his job pretty well overall, but he's not the future of the franchise. 

Future of the franchise, not sure what that means or why is it important.  We need a mixed roster of Memphis draft picks, FA signings and trades to build a team to seriously compete in the playoffs.  So who replaces JV or Brookes in your future roster?  No one on the current roster.  Future Draft Picks?  No guarantees.  Before we try to find a role on this roster for JJJ, he needs to step up and play a heck of a lot better. We shouldn't "privilege" him a starting 5 spot and replace an experienced C without earning it.  JA is earning it.  JJJ needs to earn it as well.  I hope he does, we need him to play like a top 1st rounder....

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1 hour ago, toocoolkellz said:

Wiggins got a max deal, teams do dumb stuff all the time

Wiggins got a max extension from his own team using the Bird exception.

Of course you can’t rule out someone with a lot of cap space throwing an insane offer at Dillon, but given how tight the cap will be next year I don’t see that happening unless Dillon explodes during this season.

And if that happens, he’s a RFA and we’ll have tons of cap space.

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12 minutes ago, fanboyslim said:

Wiggins got a max extension from his own team using the Bird exception.

Of course you can’t rule out someone with a lot of cap space throwing an insane offer at Dillon, but given how tight the cap will be next year I don’t see that happening unless Dillon explodes during this season.

And if that happens, he’s a RFA and we’ll have tons of cap space.

Hence I also said not many teams have cash to sign and also why I said I wouldn't overpay.  Teams do dumb things all the time,  I could see someone making a sizable offer but not sure how big, what do you think his salary should be? Is he worth more than Ty?

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Jaren needs a sky hook.  He could be lethal in that 8-10 foot range.  Not explosive enough to do his thing (yet) from 15 to 20 feet out (Euro steps, taking guys off the dribble), and he isn't Shaq inside (yet or maybe never).  

He's also not really a roll guy.  More of a pick and pop guy, who then moves into the high post if the defense blows up the pick/pop.  

And, last night you could tell that missing shots gets in his head.  He takes his jumper personally.  I also didn't see any obvious mismatch last night that Jaren could have exploited.

Still, whatever, we won.  Jaren also had 4 boards in 15 minutes (which is an above average rate for him) to go along with 2 assists.  He missed all 5 shots, but if he played double the minutes (30) you would take 8 boards and 4 assists from him, then you think if he takes 5 more shots he makes two of them.  If one is a 3 and he hits a couple of free throws, then we are talking about 9/8/4 which fans would accept given that our main guys (Ja/Dillon/Jae/Clarke) were firing on all cylinders and even Bruno/Hill/Marko/Tyus/Kyle contributed.

Right now he is pretty much a 3 and D role player who helps out on the boards, and when his jumper is falling you get a bonus.  But, you can probably say that about the vast majority of big men nowadays.  If he stays out of foul trouble and cuts down on turnovers then it is on the point guards/play makers to get him the ball (Ja, Tyus, Kyle).  

Jaren has worked with KG.  Maybe he should work with Hakeem and Kareem.  Work on foot work, low post quick hits, mid-range touch (Hakeem was great with this) and the sky hook (kept Kareem in business for 20 years).  Maybe he should see a sports psychologist, too.

I don't see a TRADITIONAL path for him getting 20 and 10 a night EVERY NIGHT with his skill set/talent/roster makeup.  

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14 minutes ago, ALT GRIND said:

Jaren needs a sky hook.  He could be lethal in that 8-10 foot range.  Not explosive enough to do his thing (yet) from 15 to 20 feet out (Euro steps, taking guys off the dribble), and he isn't Shaq inside (yet or maybe never).  

I never understood why bigs refuse to learn the sky hook. It's arguably the greatest offensive move in the history of basketball if you have the size and length, which Jaren does. Not even the sky hook though, it seems guys don't like hook shots in general. They'd rather take bad fadeaway shots than a hook shot that creates more space and is less likely to be blocked.

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26 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

Hence I also said not many teams have cash to sign and also why I said I wouldn't overpay.  Teams do dumb things all the time,  I could see someone making a sizable offer but not sure how big, what do you think his salary should be? Is he worth more than Ty?

Based on realistic performance expectations, MLE at most. Which is what realistically he can get in free agency.

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Just now, fanboyslim said:

Based on realistic performance expectations, MLE at most. Which is what realistically he can get in free agency.

I agree, I just know teams do crazy stuff,teams such as us lol

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