Ole Dirty Klondike

What Can Be Done to Keep JJJ on the floor? What Options Do We Have?

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At the end of the day Jaren is going to be a 18-19 ppg scorer by the end of the year. He is only 20 and hasnt even scratched the surface of his scoring potential.  Once he builds his body up, builds chemistry with his pg and gets his recognition of situations up he will be unstoppable. He will be able to face up slower bigs with a drive/jumpshot.  Or run the pick and pop with Ja. Post up smaller bigs with a hookshot with either hand. It will be beautiful.

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JJJ had a solid game, and we will all take that.  BUT, there are so many things this young man needs to work on, so let's see how he follows it up.  And I would like to see him get the ball more "steadily" during the game, and for him not to play iso basketball every time he has it.  I'm starting to think there isn't a shot he takes that he doesnt like, and I hope he and the rest of the team realizes that sometime during this lost season.

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25 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

JJJ had a solid game, and we will all take that.  BUT, there are so many things this young man needs to work on, so let's see how he follows it up.  And I would like to see him get the ball more "steadily" during the game, and for him not to play iso basketball every time he has it.  I'm starting to think there isn't a shot he takes that he doesnt like, and I hope he and the rest of the team realizes that sometime during this lost season.

I think he should keep taking all the shots and iso whenever he wants.

Rather have that than a Jae 3 from half court or any of the other options not name Morant/JV or Clarke.

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3 hours ago, costarica2 said:

I think he should keep taking all the shots and iso whenever he wants.

Rather have that than a Jae 3 from half court or any of the other options not name Morant/JV or Clarke.

totally disagree on when he shoots...i think JJJ should be more involved in the flow of the ball, but he is takes a lot of stupid shots where he isn't set, off-balance or just bad timing...when he has the ball look at where he is focused...he has no idea that the other 9 players are doing on the court...c'man man he either learns that this year, or he will be useless to this team as we get more depth and skill....

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2 hours ago, Lugan Village said:

totally disagree on when he shoots...i think JJJ should be more involved in the flow of the ball, but he is takes a lot of stupid shots where he isn't set, off-balance or just bad timing...when he has the ball look at where he is focused...he has no idea that the other 9 players are doing on the court...c'man man he either learns that this year, or he will be useless to this team as we get more depth and skill....

I disagree he should be selfish and aggressive and take all the shots he is not a point guard.

He should take better but not less shots.

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On 12/5/2019 at 3:35 PM, BAMAFREAK said:

Maybe he just can’t stay on the floor. Izzo couldn’t get through. The fact he’s fouling out or having to sit game after game hasn’t made him make an adjustment. It’s baffling. 

Just for this season, Wendell Carter has more fouls than Jaren, also less points total, less ppg, much lower FT% on a higher number of attempts, a third of the made 3s% of Jaren,  less blocks, less assists.

He will never match Jaren on ppg, highest points scored in a game, 3s made, 3pt%, and FT%. In fact, he's only made 2 from distance this season for a 13.3% score. Jaren has made 44, for a 38.3%, and he's been off for the last couple of games in this stat.

Who cares about a few less rebounds, big deal.

With other more important indicators like ppg and made 3s%, others on the roster can pick up the extra loose change in rebounds.

You say he is "fouling out or having to sit game after game", how is the contribution of Ayton or Bagley this season going? They aren't even on the court, and they were drafted higher than Jaren.

Compared to last year, so far in 22 games, Jaren has improved in ppg made 3s%, FT%, assists per game, and rebounds per game. To me, that qualifies as starting to show improvement from last season.

I'm good with Jaren as a future core piece.

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Jaren get slow start of the season ( except for social media part !!) but is clearly improving a lot since 1 month. Im pretty sure he will end the season at 20 ppg which will be okay for me. Regarding rebound, he still need to work but he can do it. I notice also less stupid fouls or at least he manage his way to play better when he is under ref's scrutiny. Actually, it's not easy for him as the team is really weak. Next year, we will see where he can go.  

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The challenge for the Grizzlies is to grow all of Jackson’s game alongside the paint-based talents of Morant and Valanciunas. The primary challenge for Jackson is to get back on the path to being an impact defender. His blocks and steals both trending up of late is a good start, but only that. 

In what many would consider a so-far disappointing second season -- and with plenty of good reason -- Jackson is still averaging more than 15 points, one block and two made 3-pointers a game, at barely age 20. If that holds, he will be the youngest player in league history to do so … by three years

From Chris Herrington today:

 

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On 12/8/2019 at 8:16 AM, Dwash said:

At the end of the day Jaren is going to be a 18-19 ppg scorer by the end of the year. He is only 20 and hasnt even scratched the surface of his scoring potential.  Once he builds his body up, builds chemistry with his pg and gets his recognition of situations up he will be unstoppable. He will be able to face up slower bigs with a drive/jumpshot.  Or run the pick and pop with Ja. Post up smaller bigs with a hookshot with either hand. It will be beautiful.

Yep that's why i really want Jaren Ja and BC playing max amount of minutes together.  Those 3 developing chemistry will be the real determining factor for all future moves.   If those 3 are good together then it won't matter who is on the wings.  

7 hours ago, BigHunkALove said:

Just for this season, Wendell Carter has more fouls than Jaren, also less points total, less ppg, much lower FT% on a higher number of attempts, a third of the made 3s% of Jaren,  less blocks, less assists.

He will never match Jaren on ppg, highest points scored in a game, 3s made, 3pt%, and FT%. In fact, he's only made 2 from distance this season for a 13.3% score. Jaren has made 44, for a 38.3%, and he's been off for the last couple of games in this stat.

Who cares about a few less rebounds, big deal.

With other more important indicators like ppg and made 3s%, others on the roster can pick up the extra loose change in rebounds.

You say he is "fouling out or having to sit game after game", how is the contribution of Ayton or Bagley this season going? They aren't even on the court, and they were drafted higher than Jaren.

Compared to last year, so far in 22 games, Jaren has improved in ppg made 3s%, FT%, assists per game, and rebounds per game. To me, that qualifies as starting to show improvement from last season.

I'm good with Jaren as a future core piece.

+100

I liked Wendall but totally good with Jaren.  Its pretty easy to see that Jaren's ceiling is much higher as a scorer. 

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7 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Yep that's why i really want Jaren Ja and BC playing max amount of minutes together.  Those 3 developing chemistry will be the real determining factor for all future moves.   If those 3 are good together then it won't matter who is on the wings.  

+100

I liked Wendall but totally good with Jaren.  Its pretty easy to see that Jaren's ceiling is much higher as a scorer. 

got no illusions about this team making the playoffs....but worse case for this team is to lay down, and don't learn to compete with a chance to win any given game., with accountability for their individual and team play...versus who cares, lets play roulette with the DRAFT, let JJJ take any shot, let JA drive to the basket on every drive, or let JV continue to cover his guy on the switch 4 feet away...that sounds like Timberwolves, Knicks, Kings...loser franchises that keep waiting in purgatory forever for that one or two players...let me share with you....that day never comes with that culture.....

and it ain't just those 3 players..Timberwolves, Knicks, Kings at times all had good players, all stars in their rebuilds...you just cant get there on 3 man...

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47 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

got no illusions about this team making the playoffs....but worse case for this team is to lay down, and don't learn to compete with a chance to win any given game., with accountability for their individual and team play...versus who cares, lets play roulette with the DRAFT, let JJJ take any shot, let JA drive to the basket on every drive, or let JV continue to cover his guy on the switch 4 feet away...that sounds like Timberwolves, Knicks, Kings...loser franchises that keep waiting in purgatory forever for that one or two players...let me share with you....that day never comes with that culture.....

and it ain't just those 3 players..Timberwolves, Knicks, Kings at times all had good players, all stars in their rebuilds...you just cant get there on 3 man...

My point is for this season it is more important to get the cornerstones on the right page than anything else.   Taylor needs to design a system that MAXIMIZES those 3 players.    Ja needs to learn where Jaren and BC need the ball.    When to take a backseat and takeover.  Everybody else is auditioning to be along for the ride.  

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sorry don't agree....JA, BC and JJJ are auditioning just as much.  Been around this game too long to hand the keys over to rookies or young players who develop, but with significant flaws in their own game, or their team game.  And the sure way for the coach to lose the team, is to manage the 3 that way....  thankfully, it doesn't work that way at the NBA level...maybe more at college because you may only have an elite player for one year....but not at pro.

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6 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

sorry don't agree....JA, BC and JJJ are auditioning just as much.  Been around this game too long to hand the keys over to rookies or young players who develop, but with significant flaws in their own game, or their team game.  And the sure way for the coach to lose the team, is to manage the 3 that way....  thankfully, it doesn't work that way at the NBA level...maybe more at college because you may only have an elite player for one year....but not at pro.

So what is your solution? You are against building via the draft, against developing Brandon, Ja and Jaren. You previously stated you wanted Iguodala disposed of immediately rather than wait for a better deal. What are you in favor of? 

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open up your aperture a little there Chip!...hahhaha...and pls don;t put false words to my responses....draft is critically important, but so is FA and trades....of course you need to develop your rookies and young players, but within a system and culture, see if they can be coached and learn to be a team, not individuals....and re Iguodola, guaranteed that our GM has had multiple conversations and I bet (could be wrong), its not about waiting for a better deal, he just hasn't got the positional player he is looking for that is young enough (22-24) and with more proven talent than our young 3...he has 2 picks i think in 2020? He need to start building depth and talent....not just rookies.

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44 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

open up your aperture a little there Chip!...hahhaha...and pls don;t put false words to my responses....draft is critically important, but so is FA and trades....of course you need to develop your rookies and young players, but within a system and culture, see if they can be coached and learn to be a team, not individuals....and re Iguodola, guaranteed that our GM has had multiple conversations and I bet (could be wrong), its not about waiting for a better deal, he just hasn't got the positional player he is looking for that is young enough (22-24) and with more proven talent than our young 3...he has 2 picks i think in 2020? He need to start building depth and talent....not just rookies.

My aperture is wide open.

So what is your answer to the problem you have presented today in two different threads? The Grizzlies need to do well drafting? Sure but they can't do that now. They need to do well in free agency? Agreed but this isn't exactly free agent shopping season. They need to do well in trades and it seems you admit that the front office is aware of this as well.

That leaves only two areas we seem to have an issue. One is your confusing position that the Grizzlies need to dispose of Andre Iguodala as soon immediately rather that wait for a deal which you admit the front office is likely trying to accomplish. I am not sure what you mean by not being about waiting for a better deal while following that with saying the are looking for the positional player they are looking for that is young enough and more talented than the Grizzlies young 3. Wouldn't the fact that the Grizzlies are looking for a better player to pair with the youth already on the team be the definition of a better deal? 

So what do you want the Grizzlies coaches and/or front office to do today to change things? I haven't seen the players laying down and quitting as you suggest. 

Second is your understanding of how many draft picks the Grizzlies actually have in the 2020 draft. The Grizzlies pick is owed to Boston if the team doesn't pick in the bottom 6 after the lottery. Also the Utah pick you refer to is only available to the Grizzlies if the Jazz are in the lottery but not in the first 7 picks. It is far more likely the team won't have any draft picks this summer than the two you imply they should have. 

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1 hour ago, Lugan Village said:

sorry don't agree....JA, BC and JJJ are auditioning just as much.  Been around this game too long to hand the keys over to rookies or young players who develop, but with significant flaws in their own game, or their team game.  And the sure way for the coach to lose the team, is to manage the 3 that way....  thankfully, it doesn't work that way at the NBA level...maybe more at college because you may only have an elite player for one year....but not at pro.

Uhmmm Ja and Jaren faces are all over Memphis.  They are the #4 and #2 picks so they aren't auditioning for anything.   The keys were signed sealed and delivered to them already.   Only one who was auditioning is BC and he nailed it.     This is the NBA and it is NOT an Equal Opportunity Employer.   Draft status and Salary are of the utmost consideration along with skillset and fit when it comes to role on NBA roster decisions. 

You think Ja earned the right to start over Tyus in practice?    Opening day press conference was all about how they handed Ja the keys!?!? 

Every season a team "keys" are being handed over to the new rookies.    Zion, RJ, Luka, Trae, all got the keys handed to them.   I am not understanding how you don't understand this. 

 

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I think the case against tanking is also easier when it's the difference between ending up with the 3rd pick and the 8th pick - the 8th pick still gives you a shot at a young talent and maybe you can argue the difference between 3rd and 8th is worth the "improved culture" of winning an extra 5-10 games.

We're not in that situation though. We either get a top 6 pick or get nothing. It doesn't matter how great our FO is if they can't even make a draft pick. And you're against tanking, so it's not like our pick next year would be great either. It's the difference between having a shot at a good young player as soon as possible or either (a) sucking again next year and hoping for lottery luck or (b) actually being halfway decent next year but then having a much lower pick.

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46 minutes ago, ACGrizz said:

I think the case against tanking is also easier when it's the difference between ending up with the 3rd pick and the 8th pick - the 8th pick still gives you a shot at a young talent and maybe you can argue the difference between 3rd and 8th is worth the "improved culture" of winning an extra 5-10 games.

We're not in that situation though. We either get a top 6 pick or get nothing. It doesn't matter how great our FO is if they can't even make a draft pick. And you're against tanking, so it's not like our pick next year would be great either. It's the difference between having a shot at a good young player as soon as possible or either (a) sucking again next year and hoping for lottery luck or (b) actually being halfway decent next year but then having a much lower pick.

well said

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1 hour ago, chipc3 said:

My aperture is wide open.

So what is your answer to the problem you have presented today in two different threads? The Grizzlies need to do well drafting? Sure but they can't do that now. They need to do well in free agency? Agreed but this isn't exactly free agent shopping season. They need to do well in trades and it seems you admit that the front office is aware of this as well.

That leaves only two areas we seem to have an issue. One is your confusing position that the Grizzlies need to dispose of Andre Iguodala as soon immediately rather that wait for a deal which you admit the front office is likely trying to accomplish. I am not sure what you mean by not being about waiting for a better deal while following that with saying the are looking for the positional player they are looking for that is young enough and more talented than the Grizzlies young 3. Wouldn't the fact that the Grizzlies are looking for a better player to pair with the youth already on the team be the definition of a better deal? 

So what do you want the Grizzlies coaches and/or front office to do today to change things? I haven't seen the players laying down and quitting as you suggest. 

Second is your understanding of how many draft picks the Grizzlies actually have in the 2020 draft. The Grizzlies pick is owed to Boston if the team doesn't pick in the bottom 6 after the lottery. Also the Utah pick you refer to is only available to the Grizzlies if the Jazz are in the lottery but not in the first 7 picks. It is far more likely the team won't have any draft picks this summer than the two you imply they should have. 

Ok on 1st paragraph...2nd para - my thinking re Iguodala is there is a likely a pretty good deal that can be made now if your going to move him during the season... that can serve short term and long term for the Grizz, versus waiting for a better deal that may never materialize as "better?  The reality is most impactful moves are made in off-season, but now is as good a time as any while season is in play...3rd para, if you have been part of a really bad team, it can make the best intentions that any player turn bad...this team doesn't win another game in December, there is nothing good that can happen...really yu want to debate that point?..last paragraph...thanks for clarifying, you know this stuff very well.  I think the most important pick is if/when we get a top 6 in draft...getting more picks later in the draft is even more of a crap shoot...

 

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13 minutes ago, Lugan Village said:

Ok on 1st paragraph...2nd para - my thinking re Iguodala is there is a likely a pretty good deal that can be made now if your going to move him during the season... that can serve short term and long term for the Grizz, versus waiting for a better deal that may never materialize as "better?  The reality is most impactful moves are made in off-season, but now is as good a time as any while season is in play...3rd para, if you have been part of a really bad team, it can make the best intentions that any player turn bad...this team doesn't win another game in December, there is nothing good that can happen...really yu want to debate that point?..last paragraph...thanks for clarifying, you know this stuff very well.  I think the most important pick is if/when we get a top 6 in draft...getting more picks later in the draft is even more of a crap shoot...

 

1) Why do you believe there is a good deal out there that the Grizzlies haven't acted on? It's not like they are gaining anything by waiting after all.

2) What makes you believe that the best possible deal is already on the table? The vast majority of trades occur not in December but nearer the trade deadline when team that want to improve their playoff situation make deals. Iguodala is a player that a team looking to top off their run would be interested in.  

3) Nothing you are suggesting will alter the reality that the Grizzlies are going to be a bad team this year. What deal do you see that will change that in any noticeable way that won't cost the team a top 6 pick this season? 

4) I actually disagree that the team can't win another game in December but put that aside for the moment. What would alter that reality in anything you are suggesting? 

In my opinion, panicking in December and making whatever deal you can  when there is still two months to go before the trade deadline is the sign of a poor front office. It's not what I expect this front office to do. I know Zach Kleiman is young but he has Cho, Prince, Makris and Grunwald all advising him. I expect a deal to be made but at or approaching the trade deadline. No team is going to be offering their best deal now. 

A wise man once told me you should never make a decision until you have to. In other words don't make a deal while there is still time to make a better one. I hope that is the counsel the Front Office is giving Kleiman now. 

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1 hour ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Uhmmm Ja and Jaren faces are all over Memphis.  They are the #4 and #2 picks so they aren't auditioning for anything.   The keys were signed sealed and delivered to them already.   Only one who was auditioning is BC and he nailed it.     This is the NBA and it is NOT an Equal Opportunity Employer.   Draft status and Salary are of the utmost consideration along with skillset and fit when it comes to role on NBA roster decisions. 

You think Ja earned the right to start over Tyus in practice?    Opening day press conference was all about how they handed Ja the keys!?!? 

Every season a team "keys" are being handed over to the new rookies.    Zion, RJ, Luka, Trae, all got the keys handed to them.   I am not understanding how you don't understand this. 

 

cmon man, the only thing the 3 have accomplished "SO FAR" in their NBA careers is they were either a very high draft pick or in Clarkes case he made an NBA team.  Those are 1 in a million accomplishments, so kudo's to them.  Your right, this is the NBA, and not the "try league"...DRAFT status and salary mean nothing if you dont have the goods...eg. Anthony Bennett, NBA history is littered with draft picks that were busts...not saying that about our 3...we just really dont know YET.  JA as the number 2 pick deserves the right and showed a lot in exhibition...so no issues, JJJ is showing more these last few game, and Clarke is a beast at 6'7...but they need to grow a lot in their games to be considered part of a top 4 team that is a championship contender for 5-8 years...what has their pics all over main street have to do with this....my guess is only 1 of these 3 will be with Memphis in 4 years....and before you say anything, I couldn't have imagined DeRozan every being traded for a significantly better player and he was... Bargnani number 1 overall either wasn’t interested, or able, to make strides in his overall game as the years went on...Knicks got sucked in with that trade.. how u dont get this?

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6 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

1) Why do you believe there is a good deal out there that the Grizzlies haven't acted on? It's not like they are gaining anything by waiting after all.

2) What makes you believe that the best possible deal is already on the table? The vast majority of trades occur not in December but nearer the trade deadline when team that want to improve their playoff situation make deals. Iguodala is a player that a team looking to top off their run would be interested in.  

3) Nothing you are suggesting will alter the reality that the Grizzlies are going to be a bad team this year. What deal do you see that will change that in any noticeable way that won't cost the team a top 6 pick this season? 

4) I actually disagree that the team can't win another game in December but put that aside for the moment. What would alter that reality in anything you are suggesting? 

In my opinion, panicking in December and making whatever deal you can  when there is still two months to go before the trade deadline is the sign of a poor front office. It's not what I expect this front office to do. I know Zach Kleiman is young but he has Cho, Prince, Makris and Grunwald all advising him. I expect a deal to be made but at or approaching the trade deadline. No team is going to be offering their best deal now. 

A wise man once told me you should never make a decision until you have to. In other words don't make a deal while there is still time to make a better one. I hope that is the counsel the Front Office is giving Kleiman now. 

i give in Chip.... you are the wise man!!!!  good debate, but your fatiguing me!

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1 minute ago, Lugan Village said:

i give in Chip.... you are the wise man!!!!  good debate, but your fatiguing me!

Sorry. I have a bad habit of fatiguing people with logic. 

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