Ole Dirty Klondike

What Can Be Done to Keep JJJ on the floor? What Options Do We Have?

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24 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

I never said I want to do this.  I wouldn't rule it out if he doesn't improve either.  I merely proposed it as a discussion point.  Don't get me wrong, I think highly of Jaren, but the truth might be that he has less potential than we think, in which case sixth man might be his best spot.  It's really too early to tell now.

He would have to really digress for him to be put on the bench. If he continues the same away, he's good enough to be a starter IF AND WHEN someone better comes along.

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7 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

How many more games has Jonas played?

Double? Triple? Quadruple?

What is this discussion about?

It's about how you want to ignore all of Jaren's shortcomings and just give him the keys to the truck.

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10 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

It's about how you want to ignore all of Jaren's shortcomings and just give him the keys to the truck.

Another grandoise sweeping statement.

Read my recent posts, I said he needs to improve his fouling because it hurts him and the team, AND he needs to improve his rebounding but I did say, for me, that aspect wasnt so crucial, certainly not to warrant the criticism he has been getting; despite his offensive numbers, and the way all teams have changed their offense with much more emphasis on launching long range shots.

But have we now moved the evaluation bar so that Jaren needs to be scoring 30/20 every game to be considered "improving"?

LOL

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Just now, BigHunkALove said:

Another grandoise sweeping statement.

Read my recent posts, I said he needs to improve his fouling because it hurts him and the team, AND he needs to improve his rebounding but I did say, for me, it wasnt so crucial, certainly not to warrant the criticism he has been getting; despite his offensive numbers, and the way all teams have changed their offense with much more emphasis on launching long range shots.

But have we now moved the evaluation bar so that Jaren needs to be scoring 30/20 every game?

LOL

I was just twisting the knobs on your amplifier.;)

Rebounding is probably the second most important factor in basketball next to scoring.  For about 70 years or so the bigs in the NBA have been the most important players in securing the ball after a missed shot, but we can just chuck that out the window because, hey, we like Jaren.

No one is moving the bar.  I'm just questioning the wisdom of moving the guy to the bench who scores, rebounds, and doesn't foul out in favor of the new toy who only does one of those things.  Sure, Jonas has flaws too, but if you can overlook Jaren's, why can't you overlook JV's?

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6 minutes ago, smit-tay griz said:

I was just twisting the knobs on your amplifier.;)

Rebounding is probably the second most important factor in basketball next to scoring.  For about 70 years or so the bigs in the NBA have been the most important players in securing the ball after a missed shot, but we can just chuck that out the window because, hey, we like Jaren.

No one is moving the bar.  I'm just questioning the wisdom of moving the guy to the bench who scores, rebounds, and doesn't foul out in favor of the new toy who only does one of those things.  Sure, Jonas has flaws too, but if you can overlook Jaren's, why can't you overlook JV's?

Fender VibroKing turned to 10!

I'm not really worried about Jonas either - at this stage. And now looking at Dillon, while his fouling and inconsistencies frustrate me, he is actually doing pretty ok by the stats I've been using in this debate (yep I can eat humble pie too y'know).

The bottom line of this whole discussion is that I believe we need more than 5-7 true NBA talented guys, and we need to fix that before devouring each other over some fouls and rebounds.

Rock on brother!

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2 minutes ago, BigHunkALove said:

Fender VibroKing turned to 10!

I'm not really worried about Jonas either - at this stage. And now looking at Dillon, while his fouling and inconsistencies frustrate me, he is actually doing pretty ok by the stats I've been using in this debate (yep I can eat humble pie too y'know).

The bottom line of this whole discussion is that I believe we need more than 5-7 true NBA talented guys, and we need to fix that before devouring each other over some fouls and rebounds.

Rock on brother!

VibroKing huh?  Nice!  What year?  3x10 or 2x12?  If you're on 10 you must be blowing the walls down.  :D

I agree that we need more talent, but with some development I think you might find that some of the guys already on the roster might be better than you think.  Probably still just role players, but okay off the bench.

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16 hours ago, PutARingOnIt#GrizzFan said:

dude you missed the hole point...you guys are to worried with jarens rebound NUMBER...in a lineup (which is not ridiculous) of melton/clark/slowmo/bruno/jv...jv would not be averaging 10rbs per game because there are other above average rebounders around him to alleviate the need to go after every rebound.. unless he is the designated rebound guys...you put kobe on a team full of scores he is not going to average the same but it doesn't mean he is not a good of a scorer...

You missed the “whole” point. Jaren wouldn’t average nearly 10 RPG no matter who he shared the court with. As long as he’s playing against NBA players and his desire to get rebounds doesn’t change he won’t become a rebounder.

 

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13 hours ago, memphis slim said:

big hunk..

relax. saying a young guy needs to work on his game doesn’t mean folks are being mean or wanting him gone. jtrip has some incredible potential and raw talent. good guy, but he has a lot of work to do in order to be a legitimate player in the league. 

as it stands, a good coach could go at him defensively and run him off the court in very little time. that’s a huge issue and one that hasn’t improved since he first walked on a nba court. 

rebounding is also a major deficiency. he’s soft in this regard. doesn’t mean he can’t mature and improve. if you choose to sit back and say everyone is just attacking one of our great players- well, you can do that. however, the reality is there are areas in which he has to put in some work. that’s all I’m saying anyway. 

 

slim. 

+1

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2 hours ago, smit-tay griz said:

VibroKing huh?  Nice!  What year?  3x10 or 2x12?  If you're on 10 you must be blowing the walls down.  :D

I agree that we need more talent, but with some development I think you might find that some of the guys already on the roster might be better than you think.  Probably still just role players, but okay off the bench.

1995 blonde tolex 3 x 10.

Trust me vol dial at 4 is PLENTY loud

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Maybe he just can’t stay on the floor. Izzo couldn’t get through. The fact he’s fouling out or having to sit game after game hasn’t made him make an adjustment. It’s baffling. 

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I see both progress in JJJ in last 5 or so games and also his weaknesses being amplified.  He is turning his back to the basket more frequently trying to put that element into his game...but more often than not he doesnt get the ball.  He is so **** athletic that you just go wow on certain plays...his upside in scoring is clearly evident.  I hate to position him this way, but he needs to mature both physically and with his BB IQ.  He is a young 20 with both skill and raw athleticism...I agree he needs playing time, but Jenkins also needs to ensure he earns his minutes and when those minutes are used.  It's also tough when your team isn't winning much on the younger players

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he is looking more aggressive on offense which is great, but his defensive awareness in picking up fouls is maddening.  he reaches, he doesn't keep his arms straight up, he has very poor instincts for blocking out and pursuing the ball for rebounds.  he let's himself get outmuscled far too easily and also goes after rebounds 1 handed alot instead of going up with 2 hands.  he's basically a 7 footer with super long arms and agility.  should be averaging 7-8+ rebounds easily.

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1 hour ago, grizz09 said:

he is looking more aggressive on offense which is great, but his defensive awareness in picking up fouls is maddening.  he reaches, he doesn't keep his arms straight up, he has very poor instincts for blocking out and pursuing the ball for rebounds.  he let's himself get outmuscled far too easily and also goes after rebounds 1 handed alot instead of going up with 2 hands.  he's basically a 7 footer with super long arms and agility.  should be averaging 7-8+ rebounds easily.

I wonder if we could get Shane Battier to work with him on defense.  That guy just played fairly aggressive "prevent defense", just used foot work and positioning plus length to defend.  Battier wasn't really a steals/blocks guys but was one of the best defenders in the league.  Chasing blocks/steals ain't gonna work with Jaren.  

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9 hours ago, ALT GRIND said:

I wonder if we could get Shane Battier to work with him on defense.  That guy just played fairly aggressive "prevent defense", just used foot work and positioning plus length to defend.  Battier wasn't really a steals/blocks guys but was one of the best defenders in the league.  Chasing blocks/steals ain't gonna work with Jaren.  

battier would be great and he also needs to reach out to KG and tim duncan next summer

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18 hours ago, grizz09 said:

he is looking more aggressive on offense which is great, but his defensive awareness in picking up fouls is maddening.  he reaches, he doesn't keep his arms straight up, he has very poor instincts for blocking out and pursuing the ball for rebounds.  he let's himself get outmuscled far too easily and also goes after rebounds 1 handed alot instead of going up with 2 hands.  he's basically a 7 footer with super long arms and agility.  should be averaging 7-8+ rebounds easily.

What I find maddening is that other than rebounding (some players just have a knack for being in the right place that just can’t be taught) those flaws should be relatively easy to correct in practice. I mean, defending upright and not flailing while fighting for position are such basic concepts that I would start looking at the coaches for answers.

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4 hours ago, fanboyslim said:

What I find maddening is that other than rebounding (some players just have a knack for being in the right place that just can’t be taught) those flaws should be relatively easy to correct in practice. I mean, defending upright and not flailing while fighting for position are such basic concepts that I would start looking at the coaches for answers.

Image result for practice gif

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Right now he's playing mainly off instinct. The keeping his hands upright is just something that'll take time. It'll take muscle memory.  Most of his issues are fixable with time and or experience which are the same I guess.  Back in the day I used to compete in amateur boxing, muscle memory was one of the most important aspects of the sport. One of the biggest issues I struggled with was blinking when someone was attacking.  It took me years to get past that natural instinct.  Natural habits are hard to break but I  do like what I've seen in the past few games. His numbers haven't been great but I've seen some post moves and a few more wrinkles in his game that will come in handy

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55 minutes ago, toocoolkellz said:

It took me years to get past that natural instinct.  Natural habits are hard to break

Absolutely, but those habits can be changed more quickly with coaching and targeted drills. It’s not like JJJ is struggling with innate instinct (like blinking at an incoming fist), in his case it’s more bad acquired habits. I hope this is being addressed in practice, rather than being left for JJJ to learn on his own.

I don’t know how many of you have been in the military, but those who have will surely know how fast muscle memory (sphincter muscle memory in particular) can be acquired when you have one or more friendly instructors analyzing your mistakes and providing prompt and gentle critique and subsequent corrective actions. Sometimes for your entire platoon.

Now I’m not suggesting that the whole roster should run a mile every time JJJ commits a silly foul in practice, but I would expect the coaches to do a bit less butt slapping and a bit more barking when he does it in a game.

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On 12/6/2019 at 11:53 AM, fanboyslim said:

Absolutely, but those habits can be changed more quickly with coaching and targeted drills. It’s not like JJJ is struggling with innate instinct (like blinking at an incoming fist), in his case it’s more bad acquired habits. I hope this is being addressed in practice, rather than being left for JJJ to learn on his own.

I don’t know how many of you have been in the military, but those who have will surely know how fast muscle memory (sphincter muscle memory in particular) can be acquired when you have one or more friendly instructors analyzing your mistakes and providing prompt and gentle critique and subsequent corrective actions. Sometimes for your entire platoon.

Now I’m not suggesting that the whole roster should run a mile every time JJJ commits a silly foul in practice, but I would expect the coaches to do a bit less butt slapping and a bit more barking when he does it in a game.

Sounds more like a laxative than military training.

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On 12/6/2019 at 11:53 AM, fanboyslim said:

Absolutely, but those habits can be changed more quickly with coaching and targeted drills. It’s not like JJJ is struggling with innate instinct (like blinking at an incoming fist), in his case it’s more bad acquired habits. I hope this is being addressed in practice, rather than being left for JJJ to learn on his own.

I don’t know how many of you have been in the military, but those who have will surely know how fast muscle memory (sphincter muscle memory in particular) can be acquired when you have one or more friendly instructors analyzing your mistakes and providing prompt and gentle critique and subsequent corrective actions. Sometimes for your entire platoon.

Now I’m not suggesting that the whole roster should run a mile every time JJJ commits a silly foul in practice, but I would expect the coaches to do a bit less butt slapping and a bit more barking when he does it in a game.

Bad habits that were created over years won't be changed over night. I do expect him to get better simply by gaining experience and the time and effort put into being an NBA player. I have full faith that he'll one day be a premier player in the NBA. 

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On 12/5/2019 at 6:52 AM, smit-tay griz said:

I never said I want to do this.  I wouldn't rule it out if he doesn't improve either.  I merely proposed it as a discussion point.  Don't get me wrong, I think highly of Jaren, but the truth might be that he has less potential than we think, in which case sixth man might be his best spot.  It's really too early to tell now.

Agree 110 %!!

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