Ole Dirty Klondike

What Can Be Done to Keep JJJ on the floor? What Options Do We Have?

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5 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Jaren guarded Donatis Sabonis last night. Sabonis got 14 rebounds. Jackson guarded Towns Sunday afternoon. Towns got  12 rebounds. Jackson guarded Bogdanovic Friday night and Bogdan grabbed 8 boards. Harrell had 10 and Jeff Green 8 rebounds the night before Thanksgiving. The most Jackson had in any of these games was 6 rebounds. It's a nice theory but it isn't really supported by the statistics. 

Jackson can score in so many different ways it is scary. However, until he learns how to be a defensive presence without fouling and to rebound better he is a one trick pony. I believe he can improve but he needs to work harder at the areas he is deficient in to become the player he hopes to be.  

 

Being a dynamic scorer is the most important 'One Trick' an NBA player can have.    He can block shots,defend against PnR so he has more than one trick.      You all are being way too nitcpicky over a barely 20y old who has shown legit potential.     KAT scores and rebounds but has been a terrible rim protector and defender.     

Jaren doesn't have to show HallofFame level production at age 20 to be worthy of being a CORE piece. 

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5 minutes ago, memphis slim said:

gtf. nice swing and absolute miss on jaren blocks out and just lets others grab the boards. come on, let’s at least talk honestly here. 

I love jtrip. I only want the best for him and our collective future, but shane battier (great, great reference above) would have out rebounded him 2 to 1. rebounding is about want and footwork. 

our third string pg I believe grabbed 9 last night. how many times this season has jtrip grabbed that many?

 

slim. 

Due to all the 3pt launching nowadays and not to mention Jaren's position on the court usually.   I am not going to lose sleep over his lack of rebounds.   Maybe ya'll haven't noticed but perimeter players have been increasing leading teams in rebounds.    

Shane played in a different era.   If Jaren stayed in the paint majority of our possessions i would be more alarmed.    Don't get me wrong i think he is a weak rebounder but i don't think that disqualifies him from being a CORE piece going forward. 

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3 minutes ago, GrizzTigerFan said:

Being a dynamic scorer is the most important 'One Trick' an NBA player can have.    He can block shots,defend against PnR so he has more than one trick.      You all are being way too nitcpicky over a barely 20y old who has shown legit potential.     KAT scores and rebounds but has been a terrible rim protector and defender.     

Jaren doesn't have to show HallofFame level production at age 20 to be worthy of being a CORE piece. 

PLeased show me where I said he couldn't become a HOF or a CORE piece (and you'll have to define what a CORE piece is for you)? Jackson's defensive ability is not a given considering his frequent foul troubles however. 

I mentioned Kat as an example of a player who is getting rebounds when Jackson is guarding him which a previous poster had suggested wasn't the case. I realize you can't argue the original point so you have decided to somehow change my position to be somehow defending KAT's defense. I never did make that claim. 

I have also repeatedly said Jackson has immense potential. I just have also said he has to work harder to improve on the areas he is weak in so he doesn't become a player who people refer to like you did describing KAT. Jackson has to become a more consistent defender. He needs to become a better rebounder. Otherwise he is just a scorer who other teams will attack on the defensive end to get him into foul trouble like another poster already suggested. 

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4 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

PLeased show me where I said he couldn't become a HOF or a CORE piece (and you'll have to define what a CORE piece is for you)? Jackson's defensive ability is not a given considering his frequent foul troubles however. 

I mentioned Kat as an example of a player who is getting rebounds when Jackson is guarding him which a previous poster had suggested wasn't the case. I realize you can't argue the original point so you have decided to somehow change my position to be somehow defending KAT's defense. I never did make that claim. 

I have also repeatedly said Jackson has immense potential. I just have also said he has to work harder to improve on the areas he is weak in so he doesn't become a player who people refer to like you did describing KAT. Jackson has to become a more consistent defender. He needs to become a better rebounder. Otherwise he is just a scorer who other teams will attack on the defensive end to get him into foul trouble like another poster already suggested. 

I never said you said that.   However, you killing Jaren over your assumption that he didn't work on his game this summer because has been ridiculous.   That is what i am attacking.  

I was using KAT as an example of a guy that is the same level of One Trick pony as Jaren.    He is pretty much just a scorer that can rebound (based on your logic).  Personally i think KAT is really great player and Jaren can be. 

CORE piece means a player you build around and with.    Marc Mike Zbo and Tony were CORE pieces.   They were the players that the FO adjusted the team to.     

Currently,  I see Ja Jaren and BC as those types.    In their limited time here they have shown enough production and flashes to be worth the investment. 

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@GTF: I am not talking about his summer work or lack thereof until the season ends. If you want to continue to bring up my feelings about it that is your prerogative but I will not be discussing this any more until the end of the season because so many posters have their feeling hurt by my saying it.

If you wish to discuss the rebounding totals of KAT vs Jaren in regards to Jaren's not getting rebounds but also denying his man from getting rebounds that is fine since this is the subject I was discussing. If you want to bring in a list of different issues acting as if I was discussing them then we can stop this right now.

Simple question: Do you believe Jaren is not getting rebounds while denying his man from getting rebounds (ala Marc Gasol according to the OP) or do you not believe that is the case? That is all I have been discussing today.  

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10 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

@GTF: I am not talking about his summer work or lack thereof until the season ends. If you want to continue to bring up my feelings about it that is your prerogative but I will not be discussing this any more until the end of the season because so many posters have their feeling hurt by my saying it.

If you wish to discuss the rebounding totals of KAT vs Jaren in regards to Jaren's not getting rebounds but also denying his man from getting rebounds that is fine since this is the subject I was discussing. If you want to bring in a list of different issues acting as if I was discussing them then we can stop this right now.

Simple question: Do you believe Jaren is not getting rebounds while denying his man from getting rebounds (ala Marc Gasol according to the OP) or do you not believe that is the case? That is all I have been discussing today.  

I believe Jaren is a weak rebounder and is foul-prone.     I think he is like Marc as in he doesn't always worry about getting the rebound himself and lets teammates get them.   The foul thing will get better the rebounding probably not.   But i could care less about his rebounding because that can be addressed by personnel. 

Jaren is a good young player. 

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2 hours ago, chipc3 said:

He shot the ball very well. He also grabbed four rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks, one steal and only two turnovers. One of his fouls was compete BS after he banged knees with another player and they appeared to both hold onto each to avoid falling to the court. 

That foul was crap. 

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23 minutes ago, grizzgolf said:

That foul was crap. 

Im not a big challenge guy but you.challenge that so the refs can see their failure even if they do nothing.

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His rebounding is along the lines of Rasheed Wallace and Myles Turner - hopefully he can get up to the 7-8/game range. I think it's unrealistic to think he'll ever be a consistent, double-digit rebounder though.

I do think an easy fix that can be implemented right away to help rebounding/reduce fouling is to make sure he's not jumping or reaching over someone when he's out of position. He had one super silly foul last night where he was completely out of position for an offensive rebound, jumped a bit late and then reached over I believe Turner. There was like a 10% chance he'd come away with that rebound, so it was totally unnecessary. I've noticed a good chunk of his fouls are like this one (or reaching on a drive when he's out of position/coming over to help late). Hopefully Jenkins makes it a point of emphasis for him in his development.

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23 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Im not a big challenge guy but you.challenge that so the refs can see their failure even if they do nothing.

I haven't seen the replay on TV but it seemed to me that technically the call was valid. Jackson did reach out and grab the opposing defender. The rules don't give relief for extenuating circumstances. So contesting the call wouldn't have resulted in a just outcome in my opinion. 

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The thing is that all the issues can easily be fix with experience and coaching.

Rebounding to me is not that important Jaren has to work on his fouls and defense first.

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16 minutes ago, costarica2 said:

The thing is that all the issues can easily be fix with experience and coaching.

Rebounding to me is not that important Jaren has to work on his fouls and defense first.

All three are important. If Jaren doesn't improve his foul problems he won't be on the court long enough to address his defensive issues or his rebounding but to be a legitimate "CORE" player he has to be able to be on the court for more than 30 minutes on a nightly basis, be able to defend opposing PFs and/or Cs and rebound. Otherwise he is just a  shooter who has a role on a team but isn't necessarily a CORE piece. 

In my definition of "CORE" a player has to be able to contribute in at least three of the five major areas. He has to be able to score, assist, rebound, defend and/or draw fouls. Just being one of these things isn't a core piece. Two of the five makes him valuable but not irreplaceable. Three or more is a keeper you build your team around and is therefore a core player. 

But that is just my definition. I can't speak for others in this regard. 

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I think the challenge system is terrible and will likely be  phased out/changed. I would be very happy if the coaches decided never to challenge.

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38 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

I haven't seen the replay on TV but it seemed to me that technically the call was valid. Jackson did reach out and grab the opposing defender. The rules don't give relief for extenuating circumstances. So contesting the call wouldn't have resulted in a just outcome in my opinion. 

You would have to see the replay because the knee bump came from or was initiated by the Indy player which cause Jaren to kneel over in pain. The Indy player was also grabbing Jaren as they both were cringing in pain. It was terrible.

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1 minute ago, Dwash said:

You would have to see the replay because the knee bump came from or was initiated by the Indy player which cause Jaren to kneel over in pain. The Indy player was also grabbing Jaren as they both were cringing in pain. It was terrible.

WHY WOULD I WANT TO WATCH THAT??? 

Just teasing. I saw it at the time and it looked pretty ugly.  A no call would have made a lot of sense but once the call was made I couldn't see the refs turning it around, especially since they gave Jenkins the Tech

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Just now, chipc3 said:

WHY WOULD I WANT TO WATCH THAT??? 

Just teasing. I saw it at the time and it looked pretty ugly.  A no call would have made a lot of sense but once the call was made I couldn't see the refs turning it around, especially since they gave Jenkins the Tech

I am certain they wouldnt have turned it around. However, it was a lost game anyway so I wanted the refs to be forced to look at a replay to see how bad of a call it was. 

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1 hour ago, ACGrizz said:

His rebounding is along the lines of Rasheed Wallace and Myles Turner - hopefully he can get up to the 7-8/game range. I think it's unrealistic to think he'll ever be a consistent, double-digit rebounder though.

I do think an easy fix that can be implemented right away to help rebounding/reduce fouling is to make sure he's not jumping or reaching over someone when he's out of position. He had one super silly foul last night where he was completely out of position for an offensive rebound, jumped a bit late and then reached over I believe Turner. There was like a 10% chance he'd come away with that rebound, so it was totally unnecessary. I've noticed a good chunk of his fouls are like this one (or reaching on a drive when he's out of position/coming over to help late). Hopefully Jenkins makes it a point of emphasis for him in his development.

He could pad his rebounding stats but I don't think it would help.  7 or 8 rebounds sounds about right.  That could optimize his rebounding.  You are right about that.

I also think that half these 3 point misses bounce 15 feet out, so wing players or point guards are just as likely to be up front and personal to the rebounding action.  

Jaren's rookie year stats approximated those of a 40 year old Kareem Abdul-Jabbar but I have no idea what that means.  Maybe he should work on his sky hook.

 

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So it seems everyone is in agreement that the most fans should hope for with Jaren's rebounding is 7-8 a game? 

Funny how people can make absolute statements about a 20 year old's upside potential in some respects but then the same people criticize others for making statements about his potential. 

Personally I have no idea what his potential is on rebounding. If he starts putting on some muscle and gets adjusted to his height (he grew about two inches this past summer from what I was told) then I have no idea what his rebounding potential can be. I just believe he will have to work hard to improve his rebounding numbers both in the gym and with a trainer. Those extra rebounds won't come without that extra work. 

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Honestly rebounding is probably the easiest stat on the court to individually inflate with no impact. The Warriors all these years had no double digit rebounders but were the best rebounding team atleast by a wide margin in a few of those years. Its a stat that should be looked at by team imo. 

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34 minutes ago, Dwash said:

Honestly rebounding is probably the easiest stat on the court to individually inflate with no impact. The Warriors all these years had no double digit rebounders but were the best rebounding team atleast by a wide margin in a few of those years. Its a stat that should be looked at by team imo. 

How do you quantify best rebounding team? I looked on the NBA.com stats page for team rebounding and Golden State was second in 2013-14 but wasn't on top ever. This is how NBA.com ranked the Warriors rebounding:

  1. 2019-20 - 22nd
  2. 2018-19 - 11th
  3. 2017-18 - 17th
  4. 2016-17 - 7th
  5. 2015-16 - 4th
  6. 2014-15 - 7th
  7. 2013-14 - 2nd

That's as far back as I can get the program to run. Were you talking about a period longer past than this or where you using some other metric than total rebounds? 

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11 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

How do you quantify best rebounding team? I looked on the NBA.com stats page for team rebounding and Golden State was second in 2013-14 but wasn't on top ever. This is how NBA.com ranked the Warriors rebounding:

  1. 2019-20 - 22nd
  2. 2018-19 - 11th
  3. 2017-18 - 17th
  4. 2016-17 - 7th
  5. 2015-16 - 4th
  6. 2014-15 - 7th
  7. 2013-14 - 2nd

That's as far back as I can get the program to run. Were you talking about a period longer past than this or where you using some other metric than total rebounds? 

i think it was rebounding differential. Maybe not the absolute best but easily among the best consistently with no double digit rebounders.

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13 minutes ago, Dwash said:

i think it was rebounding differential. Maybe not the absolute best but easily among the best consistently with no double digit rebounders.

Nope. Golden State was even worse on rebounding differential.

  1. 2018-19 - 8th
  2. 2017-18 - 11th
  3. 2016-17 - 9th
  4. 2015-16 - 8th
  5. 2014-15 - 12th
  6. 2013-14 - 9th
  7. 2012-13 - 8th  

However they did improve from 30th in 2011-12 and 2010-11. 

Are you sure you aren't thinking about Oklahoma City who was always at or near the top in rebounding but they had Stephen Adams, Russell Westbrook and others to hit the boards.  

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36 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

How do you quantify best rebounding team? I looked on the NBA.com stats page for team rebounding and Golden State was second in 2013-14 but wasn't on top ever. This is how NBA.com ranked the Warriors rebounding:

  1. 2019-20 - 22nd
  2. 2018-19 - 11th
  3. 2017-18 - 17th
  4. 2016-17 - 7th
  5. 2015-16 - 4th
  6. 2014-15 - 7th
  7. 2013-14 - 2nd

That's as far back as I can get the program to run. Were you talking about a period longer past than this or where you using some other metric than total rebounds? 

Chip ...why are you always spoiling people's comments...with some nonsense...called facts...you are just too cold...you are cold killer of dreams. 

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27 minutes ago, chipc3 said:

Nope. Golden State was even worse on rebounding differential.

  1. 2018-19 - 8th
  2. 2017-18 - 11th
  3. 2016-17 - 9th
  4. 2015-16 - 8th
  5. 2014-15 - 12th
  6. 2013-14 - 9th
  7. 2012-13 - 8th  

However they did improve from 30th in 2011-12 and 2010-11. 

Are you sure you aren't thinking about Oklahoma City who was always at or near the top in rebounding but they had Stephen Adams, Russell Westbrook and others to hit the boards.  

It mignt have been another stat I was thinking about.  Maybe it was just defense in general that they were great at. But still they were a top 5-10 rebounding team so that still pretty good. 

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